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Posted: 9/21/2005 6:09:17 PM EDT
This seems like a strange rifle to me- I saw one in my local gunstore the
other day, and while I like another gun that can use AR magazines, it cost
around $679, which is a good way towards buying a new quality AR. It had
no rail mount on it, and a pump action seems like it would really make aimed
followup shots take longer with all the gun movement.

Their website seems to be selling it as a "less threatening" looking rifle. But if
my life depended on a rifle, I wouldn't worry about people's perception of the
rifle I carry.

I can't find anything positive about this, wonder if anyone else sees anything
practical about this.



www.remingtonle.com/rifles/7615.htm
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 6:10:05 PM EDT
It shoots .223?
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 6:10:35 PM EDT
The chicks dig it.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 6:10:45 PM EDT
It's ugly. That's the only info i can offer.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 6:12:04 PM EDT
ban state friendly?

its not a semi so I am just guessing

Link Posted: 9/21/2005 6:12:41 PM EDT
sometimes it goes bang.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 6:13:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By deimos:
It shoots .223?



And uses AR mag... it is designed for police departments scared of black rifles.. no joke there.

It works but at $675 forget about it... $200 more for a AR.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 6:13:33 PM EDT
Police departments can issue it along side 870's, without having to train firearms-ignorant patrolmen how to operate an M4.

With the addition of this handy accessory, you only need to reload every time that patrol cars are rotated out of service.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 6:15:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By roguetrader:
ban state friendly?

its not a semi so I am just guessing




Yeah, thats it. Means it can have a folding stock, FH, bayo lug etc. ... no, wait...

Its aimed at the police market for departments that are worried about patrol officers "hosing" with a semi auto. I guess they think the officers are going to show more restraint with a 30-shot pump than with a 30-shot semi.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 6:20:10 PM EDT
You don't have to buy it?

Thats about the most positive thing I can think of it.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 6:21:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/21/2005 6:38:10 PM EDT by RiffRandall]
Same basic manual-of-arms as the Remington 870 shotgun for reduction in training time? IIRC the Remington pump rifles have the exact same layout of safety & slide release as the shotguns.

It might even fit the same cruiser racks as the 870 so less $$$$ spent refitting the fleet of patrol cars.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 6:21:35 PM EDT
dumb.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 6:24:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/21/2005 6:25:59 PM EDT by Mauser101]
It's a decent .223 we can buy in occupied territory. For that reason I'm glad Remmy had the nuts to release it. Hope they'll make a semi.

Kel-Tec or Remmy, they seem to be were it's at over here right now.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 6:25:29 PM EDT
I played with one at the gunstore.

Its HEAVY and needs a heatshield.

I looked at the price tag and QUICKLY gave it back to the man behind the counter.



I'll pass.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 6:25:50 PM EDT
It has the same safeties that the 870 has.

It feeds reliably and doesn't jam.

It's a Remington.

It's legal in California.

It's legal for a LEO to buy in CA without approval from his/her boss.

It is a pump which is well suited to police work.

CRC
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 6:26:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By -Absolut-:
dumb.



It is certainly dumb at $679... at $300-350 I would consider one.

A cheap accurate backup rifle that used AR mags would be attractive.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 6:26:21 PM EDT
Well, now we know what sort of child results when an 870 and a 7400 has sex.

I might be in for one designed as a semi-auto if they could make it more reliable than a 7400. But I have no desire for a pump action rifle.

However, if I lived in a state that looked down on semi-auto, high capacity firearms, then it might interest me more.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 6:26:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mr_camera_man:
Police departments can issue it along side 870's, without having to train firearms-ignorant patrolmen how to operate an M4.

With the addition of this handy accessory, you only need to reload every time that patrol cars are rotated out of service.
www.50bmg.net/images/A023.JPG



That would be a good workout for the arm.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 6:29:44 PM EDT
"Threatening looking" is good. If the aggressor stops what he is doing or runs away because a LEO or citizen is armed with a "threatening looking" rifle, that is good enough for me.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 6:30:39 PM EDT
I think it's odd, but it might sell pretty good in a banned state. I don't see any use for it in NC. Others made a point about not having to retrain someone.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 6:31:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ED_P:
Their website seems to be selling it as a "less threatening" looking rifle. But if
my life depended on a rifle, I wouldn't worry about people's perception of the
rifle I carry.



A LOT of agencies worry about that sort of PC stuff, though.....
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 6:35:35 PM EDT
For the money it is rediculous. HEAVY!!!!!!!!!! I wondered where they had put the lead weights. Not even 5.56. Very tight mags wells on them. Local shop has one around the same price. Still there, no serious lookers.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 6:37:08 PM EDT
I own several pump action rifles.

I like them.

Lots more reliable than my semis.

CRC
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 6:38:45 PM EDT
It costs a bit less than a good AR?


That's all I can come up with.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 6:43:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RiffRandall:
Same basic manual-of-arms as the Remington 870 shotgun for reduction in training time? IIRC the Remington pump rifles have the exact same layout of safety & slide release as the shotguns.

It might even fit the same cruiser racks as the 870 so less $$$$ spent refitting the fleet of patrol cars.



I think you've hit the nail on the head. Wont scare the sheeple either.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 6:45:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:
It is certainly dumb at $679... at $300-350 I would consider one. A cheap accurate backup rifle that used AR mags would be attractive.

Yep, that's the sweet spot right there. I figure $500 is sellable with less weight and a basic rail. Pump action means less cleaning and practically no worries about jamming.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 6:46:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CRC:
It has the same safeties that the 870 has.

It feeds reliably and doesn't jam.

It's a Remington.

CRC



I know of a police officer over on SIGForum, who's department went with them, and are having trouble with them.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 6:47:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:

Originally Posted By -Absolut-:
dumb.



It is certainly dumb at $679... at $300-350 I would consider one.

A cheap accurate backup rifle that used AR mags would be attractive.



+1...nothing wrong with having a gun that flies under the radar...
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 6:50:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FAIL-SAFE:

Originally Posted By CRC:
It has the same safeties that the 870 has.

It feeds reliably and doesn't jam.

It's a Remington.

CRC



I know of a police officer over on SIGForum, who's department went with them, and are having trouble with them.



Well I have a 760 (not 7600) pump and I was assuming this rifle was based on the 760/7600 since that has the same controls as the 870 and is well known for reliability.

I guess it has bugs.


CRC
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 6:57:58 PM EDT
I bet it sounds silly ejecting that little .223 when you're used to hearing a big 12ga. shell hit the ground.

plink
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 7:01:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ED_P:
This seems like a strange rifle to me- I saw one in my local gunstore the
other day, and while I like another gun that can use AR magazines, it cost
around $679, which is a good way towards buying a new quality AR. It had
no rail mount on it, and a pump action seems like it would really make aimed
followup shots take longer with all the gun movement.

Their website seems to be selling it as a "less threatening" looking rifle. But if
my life depended on a rifle, I wouldn't worry about people's perception of the
rifle I carry.

I can't find anything positive about this, wonder if anyone else sees anything
practical about this.

www.remingtonle.com/images/rifles/m7615.jpg

www.remingtonle.com/rifles/7615.htm




Pray tell, what would you want with a rail mount on this gun?
That's a non-issue. If you want to scope it...just scope it the old
fashioned way.

Have you ever trained with a pump action rifle..or shotgun for that matter?
Aimed follow-up shots are no problem....another non-issue. Deer hunters,rabbit hunters,
duck hunters been doing it for generations.

Others have addressed other relevant points about cross training with the 870, etc.

The prices mentioned do seem a tad high, though.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 7:07:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ED_P:
I can't find anything positive about this, wonder if anyone else sees anything
practical about this.



Um, err... ahhh hemmm. Nope. Can't thing of anything. You can build a better AR for yourself for less $, why bother with THAT?
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 7:08:56 PM EDT
$675? I have less than that in my NJ-friendly Ar-build. Funny thing is, I can own that pump-rifle with all the evil features that I want including magazines with capacity greater than 15 rounds, but I cannot own those normal capacity magazines AND an AR at the same time. So if my choice is 30+ rounds of pump action or several 15 round mags at semi-auto, I think I'll stick with the semi... I could "get both" but then the pump would be limited to 15 as well. Funny, huh?

B
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 7:11:03 PM EDT
I bet it looks even goofier with a 30 round mag
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 7:11:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ED_P:
...I can't find anything positive about this, wonder if anyone else sees anything
practical about this.


It’s a lot better than a handgun.

Basically, it’s made for folks – esp. LEO’s – who for one reason or another cannot carry a semi-auto rifle.

While an AR is certainly the more desirable of the two, keep in mind that if the LEO’s had had this rifle during the North Hollywood shootout, you probably wouldn’t even have heard of that shootout since it would have ended so quickly.

Still, this rifle would have made more sense during the pre-9-11 days. Nowadays much of the resistance of police chiefs toward semi rifles is gone.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 7:27:31 PM EDT
Why don't they make a version based off the semi shot gun designs out there?

I think there is a big market out there for 350-450 semi 223 rifles that are 1-2 moa. Keltech and the mini-14 are almost priced right out of a much bigger market methinks, plus both of those particular systems have issues with them that turn a lot of people off.

Find the simplest semi auto action design out there, slap on a cheap sporter or pistol grip stock and poof. Put a decent barrel (re mini-14) on it and keep specs tight (re ak)to keep accuracy good. No little parts, simple, reliable and accurate. Doesn't need go fast gear, its a back up gun.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 7:28:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:

Originally Posted By deimos:
It shoots .223?



And uses AR mag... it is designed for police departments scared of black rifles.. no joke there.

It works but at $675 forget about it... $200 more $100 less for a homebuilt AR.

Link Posted: 9/21/2005 7:32:56 PM EDT
Looks like a Solution in search of a Problem....
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 7:34:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By miamilightning:
Looks like a Solution in search of a Problem....



Unless your department fears AR-15s.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 7:37:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CRC:

Originally Posted By miamilightning:
Looks like a Solution in search of a Problem....



Unless your department fears AR-15s.



Can I put my bullet in Andy?
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 7:40:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LonePathfinder:

Originally Posted By CRC:

Originally Posted By miamilightning:
Looks like a Solution in search of a Problem....



Unless your department fears AR-15s.



Can I put my bullet in Andy?



Now Andy was not afraid of guns… Andy was afraid of Barney with a gun.

Which shows you exactly how much these departments value their officers.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 7:44:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By roguetrader:
ban state friendly?

its not a semi so I am just guessing




DING DING DING

WE HAVE A WINNAH!
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 7:50:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LonePathfinder:
Why don't they make a version based off the semi shot gun designs out there?...


Most PD’s have 870’s.

Keep in mind that for any cash strapped PD, training costs can be a major impediment to adopting a new firearm.

And, frankly, I’m not sure a really decent under $400 semi centerfire rifle is doable, esp. here in the States.

Link Posted: 9/21/2005 7:55:28 PM EDT
Hmmmmmmmm...........something positive eh ?

Okay, I'm positive I will not be purchasing this rifle unless it is well under $200.00.

Link Posted: 9/21/2005 8:06:37 PM EDT
I thinks it kinda neat. If it was <$500 I'd think about it.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 8:09:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ED_P:
Tell me something positive about the Remington pump action 5.56 Patrol rifle.



[crickets chirping]
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 8:09:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Black_Talon:
I thinks it kinda neat. If it was <$500 I'd think about it.



Same here.

CRC
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 8:42:58 PM EDT
the only positive thing I can see is because its not semi automatci it may have that added accuracy that manual loaders do. I seem to recall reading that is was designed to make it easier for officers to make the move from shotguns to patrol rifles but to be honest I feel sorry for anyone that would have a hard time getting used to an AR. Of course I read an article one in a mag where cops were recommending fixed stocks for patrol rifles because of how horribly hard it was to retract a retractable stock, so ya never know.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 8:51:42 PM EDT
It has its place. It needs to be cheaper tho. Now, if it slam fired, then we would be onto something
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 9:09:37 PM EDT
For the same price, you could equip a police department with almost 3 times as many leverguns - and they'd be more P.C., more compact, and almost idiot-proof.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 9:10:55 PM EDT
That thing has nothing on an AR. End of story.
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