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Posted: 12/13/2005 8:48:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/13/2005 8:51:45 AM EDT by PeteCO]
I have some weird friends. The wife, Carla is thinking of leaving the husband, Mike. They have been married 4 years.

Mike smokes pot, and as result he has a dead end job despite having a college degree, and he's short on motivation. His shitty job has him working all sorts of odd hours. I know that Carla is embarassed, she's one of those chicks who is only concerned about image and money, though they have none and are in a good amount of debt.

Carla is weasely and very non-confrontational. She won't sit down and talk to him about his pot habit, but instead will bitch at him, non-stop, for anything and everything. The way she treats him borders on spousal abuse, I swear. I think she is that way with him because she comes from a dysfunctional family - her cousin James beat her up a few years ago and she wouldn't let Mike do anything about it.

Now she is thinking of leaving him, and has been "sort of seeing" her old boyfriend (who cheated on her) but swears it's "just to talk". Her old boyfriend is married. I get this scuttlebut through my wife, who Carla talks to (but we know she witholds info - if Carla were to fuck her old boyfriend, she would almost certainly not tell my wife)

I highly suspect she is stashing money away, and they recently got a personal loan to help her sister, and she made sure that Mike was the one who got the loan.

Supposedly, she talked with him recently about how she was going to make "her decision" about the marriage in February. Now, when we are with them in public and he kids around with her, she will throw the February date in his face "just wait till February, fucker" is the kind of stuff she says to him.

She didnt allow him to have a debit card or be on the checking account until a year ago, and she bitches a fit when he buys stuff like an oil and filter for his car. He hands over his check, and he gets an allowance. She gets the rest of the money to spend on various things. He's not the kind of guy to go out and spend a lot, and she will sometimes "borrow" part of this allowance which he never gets back.

Many times when I ask him if he wants to do something, his response is "let me see if Carla will let me and I will cal you back". CRazy,.

Anyway, the basics are this - she is a weasely, domineering bitch to him, and literally rips him off of money regularly. So he might be better off without her, although I think she is being a cunt by seeing this other dude. On the other hand, I can blame her not wanting to be married to him, since his only motivations in life are to go to work, smoke grass, and play video games. My fear is that if I tell him the things I have heard through my wife, he will play it off as "oh, she's just being a bitch lately dude". He tends not to take shit seriously, which in part is her fault because she never has a serious discussion with him - she just bitches.

On the other hand, Mike called me at work once to ask me what his own address is - he's kind of burnt out from years of smoking pot.

I do know that she went to her church for marriage counseling last week by herself. She did not (and will not ever) ask him to go.

Thoughts? I want to tell him, but if he would either ignore it or get pissed at me I'd much rather see how it plays out. I did consider having a chat with her ex-boyfriend, but that could go to hell fast.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 8:49:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/13/2005 8:50:01 AM EDT by mjohn3006]
If anything tell him to stop smoking pot.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 8:52:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/13/2005 8:52:27 AM EDT by LadyLiberty]
Unless you see them in the act, stay out of it, and even then, maybe still stay out of it. No good can come from your getting involved in this cluster f*ck.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 8:52:43 AM EDT
Sounds like both of them are fucking crazy.. Stay out of that!
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 8:53:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:
If anything tell him to stop smoking pot.



I've tried. He's 35 and is beginning to look like a big loser. Sometimes he is great to hang out with - we have been friend since we were little kids. But other times he can barely finish a sentence.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 8:54:06 AM EDT
I'd stay out of the way if I were you
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 8:54:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:
If anything tell him to stop smoking pot.



i think that's the least of his problems right now

cannabis does not lower your motivation. some of the most successful people i know smoke regularly. there is a correlation, but correlation does not equal causation. being low on motivation makes you more likely to smoke, but smoking does not make you more likely to become low on motivation.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 8:55:12 AM EDT
Why do you have friends like this?

Anyway, unless you know for sure she is cheating, you should not tell him. Your suspicions are yours and yours alone. Keep it that way.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 8:56:49 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 8:58:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/13/2005 8:59:49 AM EDT by brassburn]
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 9:01:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By brassburn:
Marijuana seems very popular these days, and clearly has much to do with his lack of motivation, inability to stand up for himself, and reluctance to deal with anything uncomfortable.

I'm curious to see who will claim that the pot is not, in fact, a major part of his problem.



i'm gonna call BS on this one. it may very well be a part of his problem, people can get addicted to anything. but it is not going to turn a formerly hardworking, upstanding person into a bum.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 9:01:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/13/2005 9:04:11 AM EDT by bfieldburt]
Sounds like a real great woman . He needs her to leave him. Then he'll be free of her and might then be motivated to get his act together. Sounds like a win win. "Just wait for February," she says. And he should reply: "Awesome, is that when I'll finally be free of your screwed up ass? Oh, and that's when I've got that Vegas trip planned to Front Sights. Oh, and by the way...that's where all the money just went...into my new secret bank account." Again, win win.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 9:02:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By brassburn:
Yep, he is never going to be able to evaluate his life and the people in it as long as he is smoking pot.

Tell him to put down the bong and man-up!

Marijuana seems very popular these days, and clearly has much to do with his lack of motivation, inability to stand up for himself, and reluctance to deal with anything uncomfortable.

I'm curious to see who will claim that the pot is not, in fact, a major part of his problem.



It is a huge part of his problem. He spends $60 a week on it, so it's a financial problem if nothing else. I used to smoke a little grass when I was younger, but I quit that shit totally by the time I was 20. He's a smart person, but 15 years of smoking it and doing nothing has taken its toll.

I have actaully gotten him interviews before, in his field of study which he enjoys. He never showed up. He complained that he knew he needed to get off his ass and do something, but he is too afraid to follow through. He is 35 years old and works at Taco Bell.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 9:03:45 AM EDT
and what makes you think that he wouldn't be having this problem even if he WASN'T smoking regularly?
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 9:05:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By bfieldburt:
Sounds like a real great woman . He needs her to leave him. Then he'll be free of her and might then be motivated to get his act together. Sounds like a win win. "Just wait for February," she says. And he should reply: "Awesome, is that when I'll finally be free of your screwed up self? Oh, and that's when I've got that Vegas trip planned with my new squeeze." Again, win win.



A large part of me agrees with you. His shitty self-esteem and lack of motivation might very well be due to the hourly verbal beatdown he gets from her. She insults him all the time, even calls him "little brown man" - he's asian and quite short. She is 6'2".

From the way she fucks him out of hi money to the way she constantly is putting him down, she has created a monster. It's funny how meek and unconfrontatial she is with everyone else - then makes up for it by beating him down.

My biggest concern is that if she leaves him, it will be on her schedule, and you can bet your ass he will wind up with nothing but debt.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 9:06:08 AM EDT
I think you should run away from that mess. Who needs that kind of drama?
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 9:07:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/13/2005 9:08:00 AM EDT by AcidGambit]
Stay out of it and find new friends.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 9:08:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By fossil_fuel:
and what makes you think that he wouldn't be having this problem even if he WASN'T smoking regularly?



Dude, trust me. I see what you are saying, and I have done more than my fair share of drugs in my youth, but he is one of those who can't get away from it.

I will concur that the fucked up relationship has more to do with it than the grass, but I remember on Christmas party when she had finally landed an ok job (she is no prize, believe me) and had her work associates over. My wife and I were there, and he comes in from a conspicuous absence in the garage, reekeing like pot smoke. To THAT extent, I can hardly blame her for being fed up about certain things.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 9:10:57 AM EDT
Say something only if you are sure she is banging the other guy, in which case I beleive you have a duty to your friend. I will tell you it would almost certainly end your friendship with him but that is another matter. Sometimes you just have to man up and do the right thing.

All the rest is the mess he has made for himself and is none of your business.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 9:12:54 AM EDT
When people insist on screwing up their lives, there is little you can do about it.

I'd stay out of it, and find more stable friends.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 9:13:52 AM EDT
ok. i'm not trying to say that weed is harmless, and some people certainly do have a problem with it. with your friend that may be the case, and you're the only one who would be able to judge that because you're the only one here who knows him personally.

however, i get angry when i see this knee-jerk reaction "oh, it's definitely the weed, tell him to stop smoking and he'll be able to get his act together", because in 90% of cases, the cannabis dependency is a symptom of a deeper problem, not the cause of the problems. scientific research has shown that THC "amotivational syndrome" is mostly BS.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 9:14:06 AM EDT
that is a huge, grade A, supreme,


Charlie
Foxtrot



stay out at all costs. go home, play with your kids (if you have them) take the wife out to dinner, and be thankful for what you have.

count your blessings.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 9:14:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By drjarhead:
Say something only if you are sure she is banging the other guy, in which case I beleive you have a duty to your friend. I will tell you it would almost certainly end your friendship with him but that is another matter. Sometimes you just have to man up and do the right thing.

All the rest is the mess he has made for himself and is none of your business.



Thanks - that's the direction I am leaning in. Besides, if my wife found out that she fucked her ex-boyfriend I'm pretty sure that she would call Mike up immediately anyway.

The latest news is that Mr ex-boyfriend might have an apartment on the side. As much as I'd rather not hear details, I can't help but pay attention when my wife fills me on the latest gossip.

She has gone to a few movies with her ex, so I suspect that she will be smoking his pole soon and trying to convince him to leave his wife for her. She's DEFINITELY one of those chicks who will only leave Mike if the grass is greener for her.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 9:14:42 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 9:17:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/13/2005 9:21:38 AM EDT by Max_Mike]

Originally Posted By PeteCO:

Originally Posted By brassburn:
Yep, he is never going to be able to evaluate his life and the people in it as long as he is smoking pot.

Tell him to put down the bong and man-up!

Marijuana seems very popular these days, and clearly has much to do with his lack of motivation, inability to stand up for himself, and reluctance to deal with anything uncomfortable.

I'm curious to see who will claim that the pot is not, in fact, a major part of his problem.



It is a huge part of his problem. He spends $60 a week on it, so it's a financial problem if nothing else. I used to smoke a little grass when I was younger, but I quit that shit totally by the time I was 20. He's a smart person, but 15 years of smoking it and doing nothing has taken its toll.

I have actaully gotten him interviews before, in his field of study which he enjoys. He never showed up. He complained that he knew he needed to get off his ass and do something, but he is too afraid to follow through. He is 35 years old and works at Taco Bell.



<wolfman97> But smoking pot makes you smarter than Einstein and makes you a real go getter.<wolfman97>

He is not afraid he is doing what is easiest… this is common with pot heads.

Living in a chemical fog is no way to go through life… sadly it is probably too late for your friend.

If you tell him he will likely light up first chance he gets and find some excuse to blow it off. Having said that if he is your friend tell him you owe him at least that.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 9:22:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By fossil_fuel:
ok. i'm not trying to say that weed is harmless, and some people certainly do have a problem with it. with your friend that may be the case, and you're the only one who would be able to judge that because you're the only one here who knows him personally.

however, i get angry when i see this knee-jerk reaction "oh, it's definitely the weed, tell him to stop smoking and he'll be able to get his act together", because in 90% of cases, the cannabis dependency is a symptom of a deeper problem, not the cause of the problems. scientific research has shown that THC "amotivational syndrome" is mostly BS.



I will give what you say here some credence as it is typical for some people, esp men, to self medicate. IOW, the wife may be why he stays stoned all the time. Doesn't justify it but it is what people do. Alcohol is much more frequently used by males who self medicate.
Guys don't like going to the doc and avoid the stigma of mental illness diagnoses. Can't say I blame them in all honesty.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 9:47:16 AM EDT
I'm rooting for Carla in this one.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 10:07:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/13/2005 10:07:43 AM EDT by PeteCO]
Interesting poll responses, seem to be tied between "Danger Will Robinson" and "rat the bitch if she fucks her ex".

I'm pretty sure that if I found out that she screwed him I'd tell him, though I'm not so sure that telling Mike she is going out with friends or to a Christmas party and then going to the movies with this schmuck isn't cheating either. Even if they are "just friends".

Time will tell I suppose.

When the following plays out, I'll be sure to update Arfcom:

- I'll tell him
- He'll tell me to fuck off
- He'll live in denial or give her "one more chance"
- She'll take everything he owns
- And leave him with tons of debt.

The above seems to be the way these things play out, anyway
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 10:17:44 AM EDT
Nothing you can do about the pot smoking, nothing you can do about her cheating, but if he really is your friend, you should tell him about his wife telling your wife that she's planning on cleaning him out and leaving.

How anyone could watch a man get pushed in front of the bus and still call him a friend is beyond me. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Dave
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 10:57:12 AM EDT
If anything, you should be kicking your friend's ass for being a non-motivated pothead.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 11:05:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/13/2005 11:10:09 AM EDT by PeteCO]

Originally Posted By TheOtherDave:
Nothing you can do about the pot smoking, nothing you can do about her cheating, but if he really is your friend, you should tell him about his wife telling your wife that she's planning on cleaning him out and leaving.

How anyone could watch a man get pushed in front of the bus and still call him a friend is beyond me. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Dave



Sigh. She's not telling my wife she's planning on "cleaning him out", she talks about how great her ex is and how she is considering divorcing Mike. Even I thought it was just BS talk until yesterday, when I heard that she has been going to college basketball games because he is a referee, and that she has gone to the movies with him. That's why I started the thread - to garner input from others who would look at this more objectively.

I have no way to tell that she WILL clean him out for sure, but she is definitely a weasely person and I highly suspect she is packing away money somewhere. Not that it would be much different than now - last time he bought something for himself without getting "permission" (a $25 video game) she took away his debit card for a year. Yes, a year - and he didn't fight it! He has never known what their bank balances, or her credit balances are, so as far as finances go they are pretty damn dysfunctional as it is. It's to the extent that I can't even fathom a relationship with my wife that would have ANY of those characteristics.

(Besides, my wife is a bigger male chauvinist than I am, and would probably leave me if I put up with the kind of bullshit that Mike deals with hourly. Women don't want pussy boys, no matter how much they may want to act domineering.)

The biggest issue here is that they are both so fucked up it's hard to easily identify the "bad guy", unless I find out she is fucking her ex. That's a moral line for me, but not very germane to the heart of the issue.

It's sad to watch a good friend decline in the prime of his life, but I actually think that he'd be better off without her.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 11:09:32 AM EDT
Tell him.

Every single detail you know, tell him.

Then you'll know what sort of freind he is, what sort of man he is, and you won't have to lose sleep at night wondering what to do.

Most importantly, you'll know what sort of freind YOU were, to him.

Most 'freinds' would place the freindship above the freind's best interests.

Link Posted: 12/13/2005 11:12:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By arowneragain:
Tell him.

Every single detail you know, tell him.

Then you'll know what sort of freind he is, what sort of man he is, and you won't have to lose sleep at night wondering what to do.

Most importantly, you'll know what sort of freind YOU were, to him.

Most 'freinds' would place the freindship above the freind's best interests.




That's an interesting point. I'll kick it around for a day or so. He'd either deny/rationalize or he'll fucking explode and get some balls, judging by his personality. Unfortunately, the first thing he'd tell her is "Pete said......". Obviously, I value my friendship with him more than with her, but things could definitely get interesting.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 11:18:09 AM EDT
I didn't see my option on there.

Step 1: Your wife needs to bang Carla, the ex-boyfriend's current wife, and a random midget at the same time.
Step 2: Then go on Jerry Springer.
Step 3: Profit.

Link Posted: 12/13/2005 11:25:43 AM EDT
Pete, this is what you are standing next to.



Stay away.
They were meant for each other.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 11:32:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:
i.cnn.net/cnn/2004/US/Southwest/02/21/train.collision.ap/story.train.crash.ap.jpg



you know it brother. this thread is fucked.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 11:41:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:




^^^ understatement

more like:

Link Posted: 12/13/2005 11:52:48 AM EDT
do not tell him. absolutely do not. you won't be able to convince him of anything, and it will do nothing but damage to your relationship with him.

every time you tell someone that they're with the wrong person, he/she will stay with him/her another month. the reasoning for this is that when you say "she's a bitch to you", he mentally defends her--starts to think about all the good stuff. it is a natural response.

what you can do is to get him thinking about this stuff on his own. ask suggestive questions that, even if he doesn't answer, will keep bouncing around his head. "what's all this stuff about february?" would probably be a good place to start. "you're getting what you want out of this relationship, right?" "the really great times outweigh the bullshit, don't they?" the trick is to get him to make the mental tally of where the relationship is, and let him convince himself.

but unless physical violence is involved, never, ever interfere with a marriage.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 12:11:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By arowneragain:
Most 'freinds' would place the freindship above the freind's best interests.




i see where you're coming from, and it makes sense to a degree, but the reason that i object to it is that it almost never is in their best interest to tell them. very often, telling a friend this is tantamount to keeping them together longer.

i have a female friend who is fat. literally fat, like 5-7 230. but when she buys a new dress, and asks me how she looks, i tell her that she looks great. i could tell her that she needs to go on a diet and start working out, which would be the truth, but it is not in her best interest for me to say this. she knows that she is overweight, and she knows that she sould do something about it. but until she decides, on her own, to actually do something specific about it, me saying anything overt would be counterproductive.

if she ever came to me and asked "do you think i'm fat?", i would answer yes. but i'd follow it up with "you need to figure out what is more important to you--losing weight, or eating whatever you want." what i would absolutely never do is walk up to her one day and say "i've been thinking, and you should know that you're chunky." what good would that do?

after dealing with this kind of stuff for years--hearing literally thousands of situations like this over the bar--i've learned that being overt simply does not work in most cases. it does nothing but inflict pain and cause bitterness for everyone involved.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 12:16:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/13/2005 12:22:19 PM EDT by Boom_Stick]
They're both disfunctional right now, so you'll have to tell him whats up then for risk of getting caught up in the drama.


It's a good chance though he's unmotivated cause he's in an unhealthy relationship. He'd do well to let her go away then get on with life. Good riddence to screwed up females.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 12:19:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sirensong:
but unless physical violence is involved, never, ever interfere with a marriage.



True information is not interfering… it is just information.

You cannot be much of a real friend if you are not willing to at least give him the facts you know… how he reacts and want he does is up to him.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 12:20:03 PM EDT
Mike smokes pot, and


Whoa!!! Right there, you need to disassociate with these "friends".
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 12:21:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:

Originally Posted By sirensong:
but unless physical violence is involved, never, ever interfere with a marriage.



True information is not interfering… it is just information.

You cannot be much of a real friend if you are not willing to at least give him the facts you know… how he reacts and want he does is up to him.


Telling your buddy the wife is cheating on him is far from "getting involved." Taking sides and giving wayward advice is getting involved.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 12:31:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Boom_Stick:

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:

Originally Posted By sirensong:
but unless physical violence is involved, never, ever interfere with a marriage.



True information is not interfering… it is just information.

You cannot be much of a real friend if you are not willing to at least give him the facts you know… how he reacts and want he does is up to him.


Telling your buddy the wife is cheating on him is far from "getting involved." Taking sides and giving wayward advice is getting involved.



pete has no evidence that she's cheating. he has secondhand info that says she's met with her ex-boyfriend without a sexual liason taking place. all he could honestly say is that she might be cheating, and is a bitch. tell one husband that, and you've got a million more to tell.

i caught a friend's girlfriend in corpus delecti with a 3rd party. then, and only then, would i have been prepared to say something to the friend directly. i simply told her "you tell him tonight or i will tomorrow." she did, and they broke up.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 12:42:48 PM EDT
Call those talk shows with dysfunctional guests and have the TV crew do a surprise intervention, Maury! Maury! Maury!
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 1:22:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sirensong:
do not tell him. absolutely do not. you won't be able to convince him of anything, and it will do nothing but damage to your relationship with him.




Totally disagree. Totally.
IF, repeat IF, you know she is screwing around you have a duty to tell him.
This nonconfrontational bullshit is the result of decades of PC liberal crap and is a symptom of what is wrong with this country.

If my wife was screwing around and afterwards a "friend" told me he knew I would never talk to him for the rest of my days and I would despise him beyond my worst enemy. Such a man has no code of honor.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 1:30:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By drjarhead:
IF, repeat IF, you know she is screwing around you have a duty to tell him.




Originally Posted By sirensong:
pete has no evidence that she's cheating. he has secondhand info that says she's met with her ex-boyfriend without a sexual liason taking place. all he could honestly say is that she might be cheating, and is a bitch. tell one husband that, and you've got a million more to tell.

Link Posted: 12/13/2005 1:36:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sirensong:

Originally Posted By drjarhead:
IF, repeat IF, you know she is screwing around you have a duty to tell him.




Originally Posted By sirensong:
pete has no evidence that she's cheating. he has secondhand info that says she's met with her ex-boyfriend without a sexual liason taking place. all he could honestly say is that she might be cheating, and is a bitch. tell one husband that, and you've got a million more to tell.




Then we're on the same page. you said "Never...interfere", the keyword being never. That is what I disagreed with. I know most people wouldn't say anything but damn would I be pissed if my friends knew and didn't say anything.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 1:38:12 PM EDT
fair enough
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 4:41:59 PM EDT
Definately remain an observer and not a participant in this soap opera.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 7:52:15 PM EDT
Sheesh, talk about polar opposite viewpoints in this thread! I was thinking that I would sit down with him and ask him about "this February thing", and then Sirensong posted the same reply that I was thinking. I think that's the right approach for now. If I find out she's smoking the ex's pole then I'd have to be more blunty about it.
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