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Posted: 9/13/2004 9:35:22 AM EST
Chris Cox: Ted, in your book, God, Guns, and Rock'n'Roll, you suggest that gun ownership is more than a right, that it is a responsibility, a civic duty. Can you explain that?


Nugent: God gave us the gift of life. It is the most precious gift ever. To be unarmed is to be helpless to protect that gift. That is outright irresponsible. Certainly it is a right and a moral obligation to stop evil from ending or compromising our life or the life of any innocent. That there is an arguement to this truism is an indictment to the soullessness of those like Ted Kennedy and John Kerry who would legislate forced helplessness of good people. I am appalled that these blind anti-gunners remain entrenched in this mindlessness. The NRA now, more than ever, are my friends.

September issue, America's 1st Freedom, pg. 49
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 9:38:55 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/13/2004 9:40:07 AM EST by ar50troll]
Ted's Racist outburst in San Antonio destroyed his credibility. And I am the one who alerted him the the VPC was using his trademarked name in the META tags so don't tell me I'm Anti-Ted. Jut telling it how it is.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 9:39:10 AM EST
Wang Dang Sweet Poontang!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 9:41:34 AM EST
I still like Ted.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 9:41:38 AM EST
Uncle Ted is on the board of directors of the NRA and has been for years.

I wish he had LaPierre's job. Ted wouldn't pussyfoot around on issues like the AWB or CCW laws.

He revels in NOT being politically correct.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 9:47:26 AM EST

Originally Posted By ar50troll:
Ted's Racist outburst in San Antonio destroyed his credibility.



Outburst? His credibility is destroyed? Is the lack of credibility keeping him from continually being re-elected to the NRA board?

I think you're emoting.

Link Posted: 9/13/2004 9:49:10 AM EST
nugent is a loon but i still like him.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 9:49:18 AM EST

ar50troll, can you tell me about the alleged racist incident involving Ted Nugent? I haven't heard or read anything .

Link Posted: 9/13/2004 9:54:55 AM EST
I wasn't offended, go Ted
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 9:55:09 AM EST
That's Michigan's next governor!

Link Posted: 9/13/2004 9:56:36 AM EST
Yep , Ted is the man.

Would like to know what the racist outburst was. Chances are he was right on the money but chose his words poorly....
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 9:56:40 AM EST

Originally Posted By ThunderStick:
ar50troll, can you tell me about the alleged racist incident involving Ted Nugent? I haven't heard or read anything .




It's out there if you look here's a few. What hurt ted wasn't so much the Racist comments. It was his inability to be a man and admit he made them. So what he's on the NRA Board. Kenneth Lay was a board member too. That doesn't mean shit. Money and Power does not make one correct.

Associated Press
Wednesday July 19, 2000 2:44 PM ET

Nugent Pulls Out of Houston Concert

HOUSTON (AP) - Ted Nugent would rather silence his guitar than his
mouth.

Citing freedom of speech, the rocker is pulling out of an Aug. 22
concert with Kiss because the promoters want him to promise not to
make offensive remarks.

Nugent raised the ire of Latinos at an April concert here when he
criticized people who live in the United States but don't speak
English and told them to return to their native countries. The
profanity-laced tirade echoed similar comments at San Antonio concert
a day earlier.

Local Hispanic community leaders are organizing a national boycott of
Nugent.
+++++++++++++++++++++++
> The Associated Press
> Apr 7 2000 3:04PM ET
>
> HOUSTON (AP) - The League of United Latin American Citizens is
> organizing a
> national boycott of rock star Ted Nugent over remarks he made about
> Latinos during
> concerts last week in Houston and San Antonio.
>
> While performing as the opening band for KISS on April 1 in Houston,
> Nugent was
> critical of Latinos who can't speak English, telling them in a profanity
> laced tirade to leave
> the United States and return to their native countries.
>
> ``We're not objecting to his right to free speech,'' said Charles
> Flores, director of the
> LULAC office in Houston. ``The way it was said we feel it was directed
> in hatred at
> Hispanics. I'm sure he could have worded it better.''
>
> Nugent remains unapologetic.
> ``How can you be a benefit to your family, neighborhood or country if
> you can't speak to
> your fellow citizens? C'mon, if you can't speak English, get out of
> America,'' Nugent said
> in Friday's Houston Chronicle.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 9:57:14 AM EST

Originally Posted By BlackAdder:
Yep , Ted is the man.

Would like to know what the racist outburst was. Chances are he was right on the money but chose his words poorly....



Yeah, well do the same here, lose your thread and account...
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 9:59:14 AM EST
There is absolutely nothing "racist" about telling people that if they want to live in this wonderful country, they ought to learn to speak English.

Link Posted: 9/13/2004 9:59:44 AM EST
Entire story


"Nugent, who hosts his own morning show on WWBR in Detroit, was speaking with DJs and longtime friends Rick Lewis and Michael Floorwax when he attempted to make the point that the words "g--ks" and "n-----s" were just that, words, and therefore shouldn't offend, citing Richard Pryor's comedic use of the N-word as an example."
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 10:02:52 AM EST

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:
There is absolutely nothing "racist" about telling people that if they want to live in this wonderful country, they ought to learn to speak English.



You weren't there. I was. What he said was racist. It has been spun every which way. If your a white power fag, your not gonna accept it. Not saying you are. If a Mexican-American turned the tables on you and said it i the manner he did, you would say it's racist.
Racism is prejudice or discrimination based on the belief that race is the primary factor determining human traits and abilities. Racism includes the belief that genetic or inherited differences produce the inherent superiority or inferiority of one race over another. In the name of protecting their race from "contamination," some racists justify the domination and destruction of races they consider to be either superior or inferior. Institutional racism is racial prejudice supported by institutional power and authority used to the advantage of one race over others.

Link Posted: 9/13/2004 10:04:03 AM EST
I don't have a problem with what he said......

In fact I agree. I wouldn't think of moving to a foreign country and not learning the language , written or spoken. YMMV
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 10:05:05 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/13/2004 10:05:22 AM EST by ar50troll]

Originally Posted By ovrtym:
Entire story


"Nugent, who hosts his own morning show on WWBR in Detroit, was speaking with DJs and longtime friends Rick Lewis and Michael Floorwax when he attempted to make the point that the words "g--ks" and "n-----s" were just that, words, and therefore shouldn't offend, citing Richard Pryor's comedic use of the N-word as an example."



Genocide and Kill them all are just words too. Get's your thread locked and account hammered when used to discuss man and not in the context of this discussion. Even get's threads locked when a Music album shares the same title.
MODS please note, the 2 terms used above do not reflect ill will towards any man/woman/child/race/CD/DVD/Album No need to lock thread yet.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 10:05:57 AM EST

Originally Posted By BlackAdder:
I don't have a problem with what he said......

In fact I agree. I wouldn't think of moving to a foreign country and not learning the language , written or spoken. YMMV


You don't get it...And probaly won't then. It's not what he said, it's how he said it.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 10:06:11 AM EST

Originally Posted By ar50troll:

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:
There is absolutely nothing "racist" about telling people that if they want to live in this wonderful country, they ought to learn to speak English.



You weren't there. I was. What he said was racist. It has been spun every which way. If your a white power fag, your not gonna accept it. Not saying you are. If a Mexican-American turned the tables on you and said it i the manner he did, you would say it's racist.
Racism is prejudice or discrimination based on the belief that race is the primary factor determining human traits and abilities. Racism includes the belief that genetic or inherited differences produce the inherent superiority or inferiority of one race over another. In the name of protecting their race from "contamination," some racists justify the domination and destruction of races they consider to be either superior or inferior. Institutional racism is racial prejudice supported by institutional power and authority used to the advantage of one race over others.




Dude, when my mother, sister and I came to this country we didn't speak english, But guess what we speak English now. I agree if you come to this country and refuse to speak our language, get out.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 10:09:46 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/13/2004 10:11:25 AM EST by ar50troll]

Originally Posted By STLRN:

Originally Posted By ar50troll:

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:
There is absolutely nothing "racist" about telling people that if they want to live in this wonderful country, they ought to learn to speak English.



You weren't there. I was. What he said was racist. It has been spun every which way. If your a white power fag, your not gonna accept it. Not saying you are. If a Mexican-American turned the tables on you and said it i the manner he did, you would say it's racist.
Racism is prejudice or discrimination based on the belief that race is the primary factor determining human traits and abilities. Racism includes the belief that genetic or inherited differences produce the inherent superiority or inferiority of one race over another. In the name of protecting their race from "contamination," some racists justify the domination and destruction of races they consider to be either superior or inferior. Institutional racism is racial prejudice supported by institutional power and authority used to the advantage of one race over others.




Dude, when my mother, sister and I came to this country we didn't speak english, But guess what we speak English now. I agree if you come to this country and refuse to speak our language, get out.



You people are just too fast to pile on. I never said I hate Ted. I never said anything other tha wat is known as fact. ted's credibility has been damaged by what he said. Even the link posted here has the words concsored because they were racist.
I am the one who worked with his organization to show them the Violence Policy Center was using his name as META tag, so if you did a Secrch for Ted Nugent it would return a result for the anti's site. I don't have a problem with Nugent, but he did suffer a credibility hit making his racist outburst plain and simple.

Link Posted: 9/13/2004 10:11:41 AM EST
I don't think I will get it. Like you said I wasn't there. All I can go on is the text that you provided and it sounds like raw , unfettered truth to me.

If you had to find a hospital, police, coffee shop, ask a favor or help someone out ....it is imperative you know how to communicate with others.

Ted doesn't play the PC game and it ruffles feathers.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 10:12:57 AM EST
It made him more credible to me than ever.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 10:14:00 AM EST

Originally Posted By STLRN:
Dude, when my mother, sister and I came to this country we didn't speak english, But guess what we speak English now. I agree if you come to this country and refuse to speak our language, get out.



Yawn..where to start Dude. It's not what he said. It's how he said it. Your not listening esse'.
Do you think I like having voting ballots in 16 languages. A voting ballot sshould be in English and English only. Now I can reword that sentance the way Ted did and it would be grossly racist.

Are you catching on yet???
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 10:16:10 AM EST

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:
It made him more credible to me than ever.


+1
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 10:17:03 AM EST
Okay, so your thin skinned is that what your trying to say? Just because the truth may hurt doesn't make it less true.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 10:17:26 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/13/2004 10:19:09 AM EST by ar50troll]

Originally Posted By BlackAdder:
I don't think I will get it. Like you said I wasn't there. All I can go on is the text that you provided and it sounds like raw , unfettered truth to me.

If you had to find a hospital, police, coffee shop, ask a favor or help someone out ....it is imperative you know how to communicate with others.

Ted doesn't play the PC game and it ruffles feathers.



Ted dosn't "Ruffle my Feather". Your reply is a pretty transparent attempt to convey some sort of jab.
The only valid thing you typed was you were not there. Your lack of sperating cause from effect means your not going to be able to digest the incident so I guess it does no good. I like teds outspoken nature. I like how he exlains the need for the hunt. You were not there to see him overstep the line. You were not there to see him realize he overstep the line. When you see Nugent realize he made a mistake, you know he made one.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 10:18:27 AM EST

Originally Posted By STLRN:
Okay, so your thin skinned is that what your trying to say? Just because the truth may hurt doesn't make it less true.


Please go back and reread the thread. Nothing realted to thin skinned. Like I have said numerous times now. it's not what he said it's how he said it. I agree with what he said. Delivery was allllll wrong.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 10:21:07 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 10:22:29 AM EST

Originally Posted By ar50troll:

Originally Posted By STLRN:
Dude, when my mother, sister and I came to this country we didn't speak english, But guess what we speak English now. I agree if you come to this country and refuse to speak our language, get out.



Yawn..where to start Dude. It's not what he said. It's how he said it. Your not listening esse'.
Do you think I like having voting ballots in 16 languages. A voting ballot sshould be in English and English only. Now I can reword that sentance the way Ted did and it would be grossly racist.

Are you catching on yet???



don't ever call anyone esse again. thank you.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 10:27:01 AM EST
A few months ago, on Hannity and Combs They had a transcript of the alleged racist comments when Ted was debating a member of LULAC. Anyone who was offended by what he said was thin skinned. But no I wasn't there, I am not a fan of rock music or concerts.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 10:27:20 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/13/2004 10:31:38 AM EST by ar50troll]

Originally Posted By 1GUNRUNNER:

Originally Posted By ar50troll:
ted's credibility has been damaged by what he said.



Uhh you said it was destroyed

It is when he tries to sit down in front of ANY anti group, this issue will come up. He has lost credibility with the people he sit's on a board to debate with. Yeah, I know anti's suck who cares what they think. Well Ted has some real valid points. B4 the out burst he could and did win over a lot of folks with reasonable reasone to own and use arms.


but he did suffer a credibility hit making his racist outburst plain and simple.


It appears just with you on this board, I believe he was spot on as usual.


This board is not the end all many of you think it is. Geeez. Yeah it's a nice place and all.
Most people here...OK I'll say many people here are very polarized in their views and don't have the capacity or at least desire to see the faults our side has from time to time. They defer to thinn skinned comments and other narrow opinions. Of course the pro 2nd amendment group is right, but we make mistakes plain and simple.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 10:39:14 AM EST
LOL, I didn't realize I was coming off any certain way. Maybe due to the fact I am reading this stuff in between patients and paperwork.

I don't think words necessarily make a racist. As an example the language used among African Americans wouldn't fly if you were white and using the same verbage .

The racist component comes when dealing with intent. I think Ted likes to push buttons and show the hypocrisy of the PC crowd and how it selectively applies its ever changing rules.

I would rather consider the message and not the mode of transmission. He speaks the truth.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 10:42:10 AM EST

Originally Posted By BlackAdder:
LOL, I didn't realize I was coming off any certain way. Maybe due to the fact I am reading this stuff in between patients and paperwork.

I don't think words necessarily make a racist. As an example the language used among African Americans wouldn't fly if you were white and using the same verbage .

The racist component comes when dealing with intent. I think Ted likes to push buttons and show the hypocrisy of the PC crowd and how it selectively applies its ever changing rules.

I would rather consider the message and not the mode of transmission. He speaks the truth.[BD]


Yes he does, but his delivery was abjectly fucked that night. For a man who claims not to party, he seemed out of his mind that night. Ted is a man who put's fear into the PC/Anti gun crowd. he can shut them down at a moments notice. His overstepping in San Antonio handed them EXACTLY what they needed to counter him in a debate. That is why I say it destroys his credibilty.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 10:43:03 AM EST
I agree with Ted on both counts.

Learn the language where you live.
I really don't care if he said it sweetly, or screamed it with veins bulging while foaming at the mouth. Its still what should be.

ANY group that calls themselves Anything should NOT be offended by others using that term also. They should stop whining and change Their ways instead of trying to make Everyone else change.

mike
(I'm not PC either. I'm Not a politician. Why does Anyone think that nonpoliticians should be PC)
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 10:44:34 AM EST

Originally Posted By ar50troll:

Originally Posted By ovrtym:
Entire story


"Nugent, who hosts his own morning show on WWBR in Detroit, was speaking with DJs and longtime friends Rick Lewis and Michael Floorwax when he attempted to make the point that the words "g--ks" and "n-----s" were just that, words, and therefore shouldn't offend, citing Richard Pryor's comedic use of the N-word as an example."



Genocide and Kill them all are just words too. Get's your thread locked and account hammered when used to discuss man and not in the context of this discussion. Even get's threads locked when a Music album shares the same title.
MODS please note, the 2 terms used above do not reflect ill will towards any man/woman/child/race/CD/DVD/Album No need to lock thread yet.



Dude - that was a quote directly out of the referenced article - and in context to this thread about Nugent making "racist" remarks, unfortunately it wasn't the "remarks" he made in San Antonio (my mistake) which are:


Story

"If you're not gonna speak English, get the f__k out of America." -Ted Nugent <--There is that better?


Link Posted: 9/13/2004 10:48:06 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/13/2004 10:50:21 AM EST by ar50troll]

Originally Posted By ovrtym:

Originally Posted By ar50troll:

Originally Posted By ovrtym:
Entire story


"Nugent, who hosts his own morning show on WWBR in Detroit, was speaking with DJs and longtime friends Rick Lewis and Michael Floorwax when he attempted to make the point that the words "g--ks" and "n-----s" were just that, words, and therefore shouldn't offend, citing Richard Pryor's comedic use of the N-word as an example."



Genocide and Kill them all are just words too. Get's your thread locked and account hammered when used to discuss man and not in the context of this discussion. Even get's threads locked when a Music album shares the same title.
MODS please note, the 2 terms used above do not reflect ill will towards any man/woman/child/race/CD/DVD/Album No need to lock thread yet.



Dude - that was a quote directly out of the referenced article - and in context to this thread about Nugent making "racist" remarks, unfortunately it wasn't the "remarks" he made in San Antonio (my mistake) which are:


Story

"If you're not gonna speak English, get the f__k out of America." -Ted Nugent <--There is that better?





Shit, I don't care. Just making a point that we get shut down for the same thing here. Let me say it one more freakin time. Like I said, I agree with what Ted said, his delivery was all wrong. You don't attempt to make your point by being grossly racist in your statements. You didn't see him do it, I did. The text doesn't reflect inflection and body language. And shit man, it's a rock concert, shut the fuck up and play some music.

Seriously a board member of the NRA saying and I quote the HP article"Nugent addressed imagined readers as "el taco breath" and "burrito stink" before closing with a little butchered Spanish of his own. "Aye corumba. Buenos dias mis amigos. Vamanos. Comprende? Muchas gracias. Put hotsause on my ass and eat me."
That's just a shitty way for a NRA board member to delivery any political statement. plain and simple...
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 10:53:49 AM EST
Okay, Uncle Teddy has one less fan! Big f'in deal, now move aside and let Uncle Ted on by!



GO Mr. Nugent!
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 10:55:43 AM EST

Originally Posted By palmer:
Okay, Uncle Teddy has one less fan! Big f'in deal, now move aside and let Uncle Ted on by!



GO Mr. Nugent!


Yawn, please go back and re-read the entire thread.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 10:56:38 AM EST
Yea he could work on the delivery but he wasn't on CNN , he was at a rock concert. I for one would like to hear the music and leave the political commentary at home.

That being said you know what you are in for ..... whether it is Ted Nugent or the Dixie Chicks.....

So I agree with you on certain points. He does stimulate dialogue though doesn't he??
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 10:58:38 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/13/2004 12:13:15 PM EST by crashburnrepeat]

Originally Posted By ar50troll:
Ted's Racist outburst in San Antonio destroyed his credibility. And I am the one who alerted him the the VPC was using his trademarked name in the META tags so don't tell me I'm Anti-Ted. Jut telling it how it is.




What was this outburst? I didn't hear news of this....


edited to say, I read the entire thread. I tend to agree with Ted on this one.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 10:59:40 AM EST

Originally Posted By BlackAdder:
Yea he could work on the delivery but he wasn't on CNN , he was at a rock concert. I for one would like to hear the music and leave the political commentary at home.

That being said you know what you are in for ..... whether it is Ted Nugent or the Dixie Chicks.....

So I agree with you on certain points. He does stimulate dialogue though doesn't he??



It sure litup this thread. My keyboard is smoking. Let me re itterate. I Like Ted. I like what he says. But step in poo po and you step in poo poo
I got my moneys wortth I guess!!!
Put hotsause on my ass and eat me. That would make a great sig line.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 10:59:43 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/13/2004 11:06:32 AM EST by nightstalker]

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:
There is absolutely nothing "racist" about telling people that if they want to live in this wonderful country, they ought to learn to speak English.




+1
"racist" is starting to set off alarms in my head.

Next thing you know dissing pitbulls will be "racist"......JNTSA
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 11:00:59 AM EST

Originally Posted By nightstalker:

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:
There is absolutely nothing "racist" about telling people that if they want to live in this wonderful country, they ought to learn to speak English.




+1
"racist" is starting to set off alarms in my head.



Please read the text of the linked articles.
There is nothing wrong with the above statement, but that's not what was said.
Come on people...
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 11:02:53 AM EST

Originally Posted By ar50troll:

Originally Posted By STLRN:
Dude, when my mother, sister and I came to this country we didn't speak english, But guess what we speak English now. I agree if you come to this country and refuse to speak our language, get out.



Yawn..where to start Dude. It's not what he said. It's how he said it. Your not listening esse'.
Do you think I like having voting ballots in 16 languages. A voting ballot sshould be in English and English only. Now I can reword that sentance the way Ted did and it would be grossly racist.

Are you catching on yet???



So he didn't SAY anything racist, but his attitude caused you to feel that his statement re the need to speak English in this country was racist? Is that correct?
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 11:03:51 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 11:05:18 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/13/2004 11:06:47 AM EST by ar50troll]

Originally Posted By tommytrauma:

Originally Posted By ar50troll:

Originally Posted By STLRN:
Dude, when my mother, sister and I came to this country we didn't speak english, But guess what we speak English now. I agree if you come to this country and refuse to speak our language, get out.



Yawn..where to start Dude. It's not what he said. It's how he said it. Your not listening esse'.
Do you think I like having voting ballots in 16 languages. A voting ballot sshould be in English and English only. Now I can reword that sentance the way Ted did and it would be grossly racist.

Are you catching on yet???



So he didn't SAY anything racist, but his attitude caused you to feel that his statement re the need to speak English in this country was racist? Is that correct?



Starting to get old. Please re-read the text provided in the links. Your misintrepreting what I said. It has nothing to do with feeling. Go read the artlicles linked here.
Let me spell it out for you. How he said it, means conveying his message of speaking English in America by calling people burrito breath and other racist remarks. no feeling, just fact. Please read the entire thread and provided links to facts before you post.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 11:08:43 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/13/2004 11:11:59 AM EST by akethan]

Originally Posted By ar50troll:

Originally Posted By BlackAdder:
Yep , Ted is the man.

Would like to know what the racist outburst was. Chances are he was right on the money but chose his words poorly....



Yeah, well do the same here, lose your thread and account...




At least you are keeping in touch with your inner troll. DH

Added to say GO TED!
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 11:10:07 AM EST

Originally Posted By akethan:

Originally Posted By ar50troll:

Originally Posted By BlackAdder:
Yep , Ted is the man.

Would like to know what the racist outburst was. Chances are he was right on the money but chose his words poorly....



Yeah, well do the same here, lose your thread and account...




At least you are keeping it touch with your inner troll. DH



I wasn't even going to bother to reply. But you made such little sense I couldn't resist. Just adding to my post count...
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 11:13:01 AM EST
I'm from New Zealand and had to learn the language when I moved here.....

ar50troll - I admire Ted, so do you.

I, like many others am fed up with "PC" and would prefer more people spoke out like he does, the danger, of course, is that it can alienate many moderates but at the same time it can energize others so who knows what the net affect is? I want him to do what he does best and that is poke people into discussion, move them off the sofa for just a minute or two.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 11:14:05 AM EST

Originally Posted By burbanite:
I'm from New Zealand and had to learn the language when I moved here.....

ar50troll - I admire Ted, so do you.

I, like many others am fed up with "PC" and would prefer more people spoke out like he does, the danger, of course, is that it can alienate many moderates but at the same time it can energize others so who knows what the net affect is? I want him to do what he does best and that is poke people into discussion, move them off the sofa for just a minute or two.



I agree, but there is a right way and a wrong way to accomplish your goals.
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