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Posted: 11/20/2012 5:48:05 AM EST
White, gun owning middle class retirees. Blaim thier republican govenor for taxing UAW retiree pensions. Pissed about rising health care costs.

Either voted for Obama or not at all. But were rather smug that Obama was re-elected and didnt like Romney at all.

The republicans have got to do a better job of reaching those kind of people in future elections.
Link Posted: 11/20/2012 5:51:42 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/20/2012 5:53:44 AM EST by Badseed]
Essentially - do you feel they did not support Romney out of spite?

..rather (I'm assuming UAW retirees) did they feel that the Republicans have lost touch with the 'working man'?

Edit:verbage
Link Posted: 11/20/2012 5:52:15 AM EST
Thing is, between the Tea Party and Repub tactics, they did "reach out" to them. To people of color as well.

Obama just promised all of them more.

"Reaching out" only really means "promising stuff" in one way or another. Bear that in mind.

The Right is so far behind the Left right now it isn't even funny. They have the sheep believing that tax cuts are bad, big government is good, and that conservative thought is crazy.

THAT's what we're up against. Generations of people indoctrinated to believe the above.
Link Posted: 11/20/2012 5:53:35 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/20/2012 5:54:08 AM EST by _DR]
Originally Posted By AR15fan:
White, gun owning middle class retirees. Blaim thier republican govenor for taxing UAW retiree pensions. Pissed about rising health care costs.

Either voted for Obama or not at all. But were rather smug that Obama was re-elected and didnt like Romney at all.

The republicans have got to do a better job of reaching those kind of people in future elections.


The republicans can never reach idiots like that. They cut off their noses to spite their face, and destroy this nation in the process.

Link Posted: 11/20/2012 5:55:44 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/20/2012 6:02:58 AM EST by DnPRK]
Romney was cast as "rich and out of touch" early in the campaign. Union "us vs them" mentality meant Romney's message fell on deaf ears (nobody likes to listen to the enemy).
Link Posted: 11/20/2012 5:56:49 AM EST
Originally Posted By _DR:
Originally Posted By AR15fan:
White, gun owning middle class retirees. Blaim thier republican govenor for taxing UAW retiree pensions. Pissed about rising health care costs.

Either voted for Obama or not at all. But were rather smug that Obama was re-elected and didnt like Romney at all.

The republicans have got to do a better job of reaching those kind of people in future elections.


The republicans can never reach idiots like that. They cut off their noses to spite their face, and destroy this nation in the process.



So you are you saying not to try? You are going to write off 47%?
Link Posted: 11/20/2012 5:59:14 AM EST

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
White, gun owning middle class retirees. Blaim thier republican govenor for taxing UAW retiree pensions. Pissed about rising health care costs.

Either voted for Obama or not at all. But were rather smug that Obama was re-elected and didnt like Romney at all.

The republicans have got to do a better job of reaching those kind of people in future elections.

In all reality those people should have been behind Romney from the start. His dad was big in the car business and a Michigan Governor. In all truth they probably just voted as they were told.
Link Posted: 11/20/2012 6:00:41 AM EST
Originally Posted By Badseed:
Essentially - do you feel they did not support Romney out of spite?

..rather (I'm assuming UAW retirees) did they feel that the Republicans have lost touch with the 'working man'?

Edit:verbage


They couldnt really explain their support of Obama or dislike of Romney. So i suspect its the above.
Link Posted: 11/20/2012 6:01:50 AM EST
Originally Posted By zealgroup:
Originally Posted By _DR:
Originally Posted By AR15fan:
White, gun owning middle class retirees. Blaim thier republican govenor for taxing UAW retiree pensions. Pissed about rising health care costs.

Either voted for Obama or not at all. But were rather smug that Obama was re-elected and didnt like Romney at all.

The republicans have got to do a better job of reaching those kind of people in future elections.


The republicans can never reach idiots like that. They cut off their noses to spite their face, and destroy this nation in the process.



So you are you saying not to try? You are going to write off 47%?


I don't believe the 47% want to be reached, the only thing that will reach them is when it all goes away.
Link Posted: 11/20/2012 6:02:32 AM EST
they are stupid and just obey the union leaders, kind of like lemmings running off a cliff and into the sea
Link Posted: 11/20/2012 6:13:53 AM EST

Originally Posted By coldair:
they are stupid and just obey the union leaders, kind of like lemmings running off a cliff and into the sea

My grandfather (RIP) was that way. Straight Democrat ticket... and that is where I got the line "Democrats are watching out for the working man".

He would vote that straight ticket, even if Carter was eating his children in front of him.

People like him, cannot be changed and no time should be wasted trying.
Link Posted: 11/20/2012 6:15:21 AM EST
Originally Posted By AR15fan:
White, gun owning middle class retirees. Blaim thier republican govenor for taxing UAW retiree pensions. Pissed about rising health care costs.

Either voted for Obama or not at all. But were rather smug that Obama was re-elected and didnt like Romney at all.

The republicans have got to do a better job of reaching those kind of people in future elections.


We can promise more free shit, more regulation to help control costs due to all the regulation. That seems to do the trick.
Link Posted: 11/20/2012 6:18:17 AM EST

Originally Posted By _DR:
Originally Posted By AR15fan:
White, gun owning middle class retirees. Blaim thier republican govenor for taxing UAW retiree pensions. Pissed about rising health care costs.

Either voted for Obama or not at all. But were rather smug that Obama was re-elected and didnt like Romney at all.

The republicans have got to do a better job of reaching those kind of people in future elections.


The republicans can never reach idiots like that. They cut off their noses to spite their face, and destroy this nation in the process.


Pretty much this.

I personally say move more to the right, don't reach out at all. This slow decay isn't doing anyone any good.
Link Posted: 11/20/2012 6:22:09 AM EST
Originally Posted By AR15fan:
White, gun owning middle class retirees. Blaim thier republican govenor for taxing UAW retiree pensions. Pissed about rising health care costs.

Either voted for Obama or not at all. But were rather smug that Obama was re-elected and didnt like Romney at all.

The republicans have got to do a better job of reaching those kind of people in future elections.


It's tough to "reach" people who have no principles, other than just giving them stuff to secure their votes.
Link Posted: 11/20/2012 6:23:29 AM EST
The mainstream media owns those fools, lock stock and barrel.

Until the leftist media has a stake driven through its heart, nothing will sway people like this.
Link Posted: 11/20/2012 6:24:08 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/20/2012 7:25:26 AM EST by Silver_Surfer]
I talked to gun owners who voted for 0. Yup it all comes to the free shit.
Link Posted: 11/20/2012 6:37:11 AM EST



people can't reasonably separate what is real, from what is not, these days.

don't expect them to make good chioces.


Link Posted: 11/20/2012 6:43:20 AM EST
Originally Posted By AR15fan:
White, gun owning middle class retirees. Blaim thier republican govenor for taxing UAW retiree pensions. Pissed about rising health care costs.

Either voted for Obama or not at all. But were rather smug that Obama was re-elected and didnt like Romney at all.

The republicans have got to do a better job of reaching those kind of people in future elections.


OK so we've got middle class retirees == boomers probably. Sounds like another case of "I got mine fuck you" to me.

I don't want ANYONE with that level of stupid around me. Go vote for your savior Obama...but don't blame me when you are rejected for a pacemaker because it's too expensive.
Link Posted: 11/20/2012 6:46:19 AM EST
Originally Posted By AR15fan:
The republicans have got to do a better job of reaching those kind of people in future elections.


This. Republicans have an image of the party of rich old white guy that wants to make it legal for companies to take away pensions that they desperately need to shake.
Link Posted: 11/20/2012 6:48:17 AM EST
If they are Retirees it has something to do with health care or S.S
Link Posted: 11/20/2012 6:52:07 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/20/2012 7:18:29 AM EST by GLHX2112]
I'm lucky, retirement pay is not taxed in PA. Obviously some states do tax retirees. Is this a new development in Michigan? Is all retiree pay taxed there, or just some ?

If that is a new development then there would be hell to pay, heck, there would be armed rampaging seniors on the streets here if the law was changed and hell to pay for any party that was in charge when the law changed. And, as for voting, Shit would roll up hill.

For the fixed income crowd, I believe money trumps principles for a lot of them. Some will say you can' t eat principles, and party loyalty goes down the toilet if you tax their pay.



Edit: Now I get it, UAW Motherfuckers were only pension plan not getting taxed by the state, unlike all the other pension plans, so now they are pissed. Fuck em. All or none. There should be no exemptions.
Link Posted: 11/20/2012 6:56:50 AM EST
Originally Posted By AR15fan:
White, gun owning middle class retirees. Blaim thier republican govenor for taxing UAW retiree pensions. Pissed about rising health care costs.

Either voted for Obama or not at all. But were rather smug that Obama was re-elected and didnt like Romney at all.

The republicans have got to do a better job of reaching those kind of people in future elections.


I want to hulk smash when I hear people talk about that like it was somehow unfair. Their pensions were the ONLY type of retirement income that wasn't taxed in Michigan before Snyder.

401k income? Taxed.
IRA Income? Taxed.
Other Non-Tax Advantaged Retirement Income? Taxed.

All Snyder did was put all retirement income on the same level playing field for state taxes. To take a page out of Obama's playbook, why shouldn't union retirees pay their "fair share" too?

Link Posted: 11/20/2012 7:00:49 AM EST
Originally Posted By AR15fan:
White, gun owning middle class retirees. Blaim thier republican govenor for taxing UAW retiree pensions. Pissed about rising health care costs.

Either voted for Obama or not at all. But were rather smug that Obama was re-elected and didnt like Romney at all.

The republicans have got to do a better job of reaching those kind of people in future elections.


I can relate to the highlighted but I still voted for him
Link Posted: 11/20/2012 7:07:59 AM EST
Originally Posted By macman37:
Thing is, between the Tea Party and Repub tactics, they did "reach out" to them. To people of color as well.

Obama just promised all of them more.

"Reaching out" only really means "promising stuff" in one way or another. Bear that in mind.

The Right is so far behind the Left right now it isn't even funny. They have the sheep believing that tax cuts are bad, big government is good, and that conservative thought is crazy.

THAT's what we're up against. Generations of people indoctrinated to believe the above.



Link Posted: 11/20/2012 7:11:44 AM EST
union scum love Obammy
Link Posted: 11/20/2012 7:15:18 AM EST
Can't fix stupid.
Link Posted: 11/20/2012 7:15:20 AM EST
You can't fix stupid.
Link Posted: 11/20/2012 7:17:26 AM EST
Originally Posted By AR15fan:
White, gun owning middle class retirees. Blaim thier republican govenor for taxing UAW retiree pensions. Pissed about rising health care costs.

Either voted for Obama or not at all. But were rather smug that Obama was re-elected and didnt like Romney at all.

The republicans have got to do a better job of reaching those kind of people in future elections.



Even more proof that only fucking retards are allowed to work at the UAW .
Link Posted: 11/20/2012 7:21:53 AM EST
Originally Posted By AR15fan:
White, gun owning middle class retirees. Blaim thier republican govenor for taxing UAW retiree pensions. Pissed about rising health care costs.

Either voted for Obama or not at all. But were rather smug that Obama was re-elected and didnt like Romney at all.

The republicans have got to do a better job of reaching those kind of people in future elections.


UAW. Fuck 'em.
Link Posted: 11/20/2012 7:23:22 AM EST
I'd just as well talk politics with Lancelot Link than waste my time with the typical Obama supporter.
Link Posted: 11/20/2012 9:34:55 AM EST
Originally Posted By rod727:
If they are Retirees it has something to do with health care or S.S


Neither is old enough to draw SS or medicare. The guy is pissed the Republican govenor started taxing his pension, which I'm not even sure is true, but he believes that. The woman is pissed that her daughter and grandkids have to spenn as much as they do on health care.

Somehow they believe Obama is the answer to those concerns.
Link Posted: 11/20/2012 9:36:02 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/20/2012 9:38:49 AM EST by AR15fan]
Originally Posted By GLHX2112:
I'm lucky, retirement pay is not taxed in PA. Obviously some states do tax retirees. Is this a new development in Michigan? Is all retiree pay taxed there, or just some ?

If that is a new development then there would be hell to pay, heck, there would be armed rampaging seniors on the streets here if the law was changed and hell to pay for any party that was in charge when the law changed. And, as for voting, Shit would roll up hill.

For the fixed income crowd, I believe money trumps principles for a lot of them. Some will say you can' t eat principles, and party loyalty goes down the toilet if you tax their pay.



Edit: Now I get it, UAW Motherfuckers were only pension plan not getting taxed by the state, unlike all the other pension plans, so now they are pissed. Fuck em. All or none. There should be no exemptions.
Aparently state, county and city workers were not taxed either. So they managed to piss off the cops, firefighters, teachers and autoworkers all in one stroke. If it was really a republican govenor that did that tax then its no suprise Romney lost Michigan.
Link Posted: 11/20/2012 9:49:34 AM EST
Originally Posted By ken_mays:
The mainstream media owns those fools, lock stock and barrel.

Until the leftist media has a stake driven through its heart, nothing will sway people like this.


This is key!! Nothing changes until this changes. The current news is the significant enemy of freedom in this country.

Link Posted: 11/20/2012 9:54:07 AM EST
Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Originally Posted By GLHX2112:
I'm lucky, retirement pay is not taxed in PA. Obviously some states do tax retirees. Is this a new development in Michigan? Is all retiree pay taxed there, or just some ?

If that is a new development then there would be hell to pay, heck, there would be armed rampaging seniors on the streets here if the law was changed and hell to pay for any party that was in charge when the law changed. And, as for voting, Shit would roll up hill.

For the fixed income crowd, I believe money trumps principles for a lot of them. Some will say you can' t eat principles, and party loyalty goes down the toilet if you tax their pay.



Edit: Now I get it, UAW Motherfuckers were only pension plan not getting taxed by the state, unlike all the other pension plans, so now they are pissed. Fuck em. All or none. There should be no exemptions.
Aparently state, county and city workers were not taxed either. So they managed to piss off the cops, firefighters, teachers and autoworkers all in one stroke. If it was really a republican govenor that did that tax then its no suprise Romney lost Michigan.


It's no small wonder but it was the right thing to do. Every other retiree in Michigan who fell outside the above description pays state tax on their retirement income. There is absolutely no reason that the UAW and state employees should get a pass.
Link Posted: 11/20/2012 10:05:36 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/20/2012 10:06:41 AM EST by jezebel]
Originally Posted By GLHX2112:
I'm lucky, retirement pay is not taxed in PA. Obviously some states do tax retirees. Is this a new development in Michigan? Is all retiree pay taxed there, or just some ?

If that is a new development then there would be hell to pay, heck, there would be armed rampaging seniors on the streets here if the law was changed and hell to pay for any party that was in charge when the law changed. And, as for voting, Shit would roll up hill.

For the fixed income crowd, I believe money trumps principles for a lot of them. Some will say you can' t eat principles, and party loyalty goes down the toilet if you tax their pay.

Edit: Now I get it, UAW Motherfuckers were only pension plan not getting taxed by the state, unlike all the other pension plans, so now they are pissed. Fuck em. All or none. There should be no exemptions.


I know most dislike UAW workers and blame them for many problems. But try to look at it from their perspective. They loyally worked, enduring strikes they did not want, sometimes crappy working conditions, and many other things. And despite some skewed beliefs from those who did not live in the union worker world, union workers do not make as much money or have as many benefits as the haters want to believe.

During the bankruptcy (yes,bankruptcy, just like Romney said should happen) many were forced into early retirement and lost a large portion of the retirement they had been working towards for twenty plus years. Given jobs are scare in this area, and the limited education and experience of the retirees, coupled with their age, they cannot simply go out and begin another career.

Every year a little bit more of that limited income is being whittled away by deals the unions are making or programs shoved down their throats by government. When our lovely republican governor slapped a large tax on those pensions, many who had flipped from Democrat to Republican because of the bankruptcy, flipped right back. I know arf does not like to hear this, but these people have worked hard and were promised much, and now are facing a future with less means than they were planning on having.

If less pay, less benefits, more tax is the new way, that is great. But the retirees should not be subject to all of it. They put their time in, worked hard, and planned their futures based on what they fully believed and were promised was protected. I do not doubt that most here would end up feeling the same when faced with their money being taken away by government.

I am staunchly anti union. The UAW specifically has outlived its purpose and has become a monster. But I am NOT anti union worker. The two are not the same.
Link Posted: 11/20/2012 10:18:37 AM EST
Originally Posted By jezebel:
Originally Posted By GLHX2112:
I'm lucky, retirement pay is not taxed in PA. Obviously some states do tax retirees. Is this a new development in Michigan? Is all retiree pay taxed there, or just some ?

If that is a new development then there would be hell to pay, heck, there would be armed rampaging seniors on the streets here if the law was changed and hell to pay for any party that was in charge when the law changed. And, as for voting, Shit would roll up hill.

For the fixed income crowd, I believe money trumps principles for a lot of them. Some will say you can' t eat principles, and party loyalty goes down the toilet if you tax their pay.

Edit: Now I get it, UAW Motherfuckers were only pension plan not getting taxed by the state, unlike all the other pension plans, so now they are pissed. Fuck em. All or none. There should be no exemptions.


I know most dislike UAW workers and blame them for many problems. But try to look at it from their perspective. They loyally worked, enduring strikes they did not want, sometimes crappy working conditions, and many other things. And despite some skewed beliefs from those who did not live in the union worker world, union workers do not make as much money or have as many benefits as the haters want to believe.

During the bankruptcy (yes,bankruptcy, just like Romney said should happen) many were forced into early retirement and lost a large portion of the retirement they had been working towards for twenty plus years. Given jobs are scare in this area, and the limited education and experience of the retirees, coupled with their age, they cannot simply go out and begin another career.

Every year a little bit more of that limited income is being whittled away by deals the unions are making or programs shoved down their throats by government. When our lovely republican governor slapped a large tax on those pensions, many who had flipped from Democrat to Republican because of the bankruptcy, flipped right back. I know arf does not like to hear this, but these people have worked hard and were promised much, and now are facing a future with less means than they were planning on having.

If less pay, less benefits, more tax is the new way, that is great. But the retirees should not be subject to all of it. They put their time in, worked hard, and planned their futures based on what they fully believed and were promised was protected. I do not doubt that most here would end up feeling the same when faced with their money being taken away by government.

I am staunchly anti union. The UAW specifically has outlived its purpose and has become a monster. But I am NOT anti union worker. The two are not the same.


What about the rest of us, the majority of us in fact, who are going to retire on our 401ks or savings which aren't guaranteed but still taxed by the state? Explain why UAW and State retirees with a pension should not pay any state tax while people who retiree on a 401k have to pay the full bill? That's the meat and potatoes of what you are getting at so go ahead and tell us why people with a pension are a special class who should be exempt from state taxes. It's not about class or income because even Walmart employees have 401k plans which will be subject to state taxes when they retire.

Whatever happened to everyone paying their "fair share"? It is incredibly disingenuous to talk about this "new tax" slapped on union retirees without talking about how that SAME tax has been applied to all other retirees all along. The fact that union retirees with a pension didn't pay that tax before was a sweetheart deal and nothing more.

Link Posted: 11/20/2012 10:19:41 AM EST
Originally Posted By jezebel:
Originally Posted By GLHX2112:
I'm lucky, retirement pay is not taxed in PA. Obviously some states do tax retirees. Is this a new development in Michigan? Is all retiree pay taxed there, or just some ?

If that is a new development then there would be hell to pay, heck, there would be armed rampaging seniors on the streets here if the law was changed and hell to pay for any party that was in charge when the law changed. And, as for voting, Shit would roll up hill.

For the fixed income crowd, I believe money trumps principles for a lot of them. Some will say you can' t eat principles, and party loyalty goes down the toilet if you tax their pay.

Edit: Now I get it, UAW Motherfuckers were only pension plan not getting taxed by the state, unlike all the other pension plans, so now they are pissed. Fuck em. All or none. There should be no exemptions.


I know most dislike UAW workers and blame them for many problems. But try to look at it from their perspective. They loyally worked, enduring strikes they did not want, sometimes crappy working conditions, and many other things. And despite some skewed beliefs from those who did not live in the union worker world, union workers do not make as much money or have as many benefits as the haters want to believe.

During the bankruptcy (yes,bankruptcy, just like Romney said should happen) many were forced into early retirement and lost a large portion of the retirement they had been working towards for twenty plus years. Given jobs are scare in this area, and the limited education and experience of the retirees, coupled with their age, they cannot simply go out and begin another career.

Every year a little bit more of that limited income is being whittled away by deals the unions are making or programs shoved down their throats by government. When our lovely republican governor slapped a large tax on those pensions, many who had flipped from Democrat to Republican because of the bankruptcy, flipped right back. I know arf does not like to hear this, but these people have worked hard and were promised much, and now are facing a future with less means than they were planning on having.

If less pay, less benefits, more tax is the new way, that is great. But the retirees should not be subject to all of it. They put their time in, worked hard, and planned their futures based on what they fully believed and were promised was protected. I do not doubt that most here would end up feeling the same when faced with their money being taken away by government.

I am staunchly anti union. The UAW specifically has outlived its purpose and has become a monster. But I am NOT anti union worker. The two are not the same.


Yes they are.

And everything you said about hard working folks who lost part of their retirement when their employers went belly up, also applies to many others in this country. The only difference is that the feds didn't bail them out. What makes it even worse for them is the fact that their current income provides taxes to pay for UAW workers who are now officially better than those who bailed them out. To make it even worse, the UAW was exempted from some of the onerous policies that the rest of us have to live with. And now that one of exemptions is being taken away by a Governor who "gets it"; they cry foul.

Maybe I missed it, but I don't recall reading any news articles about patriotic UAW members unsuccessfully attempting a coup to oust the Obama-sucking Union leadership.

So resume your Communist Worker's Party Lovefest. As far as I'm concerned, the UAW and their fucking members will get no sympathy from me that they now have to pay taxes like the rest of us.

Link Posted: 11/20/2012 10:42:14 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/20/2012 10:46:39 AM EST by AR15fan]
Originally Posted By woodsie:
Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Originally Posted By GLHX2112:
I'm lucky, retirement pay is not taxed in PA. Obviously some states do tax retirees. Is this a new development in Michigan? Is all retiree pay taxed there, or just some ?

If that is a new development then there would be hell to pay, heck, there would be armed rampaging seniors on the streets here if the law was changed and hell to pay for any party that was in charge when the law changed. And, as for voting, Shit would roll up hill.

For the fixed income crowd, I believe money trumps principles for a lot of them. Some will say you can' t eat principles, and party loyalty goes down the toilet if you tax their pay.



Edit: Now I get it, UAW Motherfuckers were only pension plan not getting taxed by the state, unlike all the other pension plans, so now they are pissed. Fuck em. All or none. There should be no exemptions.
Aparently state, county and city workers were not taxed either. So they managed to piss off the cops, firefighters, teachers and autoworkers all in one stroke. If it was really a republican govenor that did that tax then its no suprise Romney lost Michigan.


It's no small wonder but it was the right thing to do.


A tax increase is not the right thing to do.

Every other retiree in Michigan who fell outside the above description pays state tax on their retirement income. There is absolutely no reason that the UAW and state employees should get a pass.


Then lower everyones to match what the UAW pensioners paid, dont raise taxes.
I cant believe you support tax increases for fairness

If we are gonna worry about fair then we make it "fair" by cutting taxes, not raising them.
Link Posted: 11/20/2012 10:43:53 AM EST
Originally Posted By Brownie63:
Yes they are.

And everything you said about hard working folks who lost part of their retirement when their employers went belly up, also applies to many others in this country. The only difference is that the feds didn't bail them out. What makes it even worse for them is the fact that their current income provides taxes to pay for UAW workers who are now officially better than those who bailed them out. To make it even worse, the UAW was exempted from some of the onerous policies that the rest of us have to live with. And now that one of exemptions is being taken away by a Governor who "gets it"; they cry foul.

Maybe I missed it, but I don't recall reading any news articles about patriotic UAW members unsuccessfully attempting a coup to oust the Obama-sucking Union leadership.

So resume your Communist Worker's Party Lovefest. As far as I'm concerned, the UAW and their fucking members will get no sympathy from me that they now have to pay taxes like the rest of us.



I assure you, they are two very distinct and separate things. When you have been promised by your union thatyour retirement will be "A" no matter what, then are forced to retire early, losing most of your healthcare benefits, then are suddenly subjected to a tax you have been promised you will never be subject to, and without any means to adjust for it, then you may get it.

By the way, if you have access to the Federal Court Docket, you will see many cases where the Locals have sued their unions for multiple offenses. But hey, if you haven't heard of it in your world, then it must not be true.

Communist Worker's Party Lovefest?
Link Posted: 11/20/2012 10:44:33 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/20/2012 10:44:47 AM EST by jezebel]
Originally Posted By AR15fan:


Then lower everyones to match what the UAW pensioners paid, dont raise taxes.
I cant believe you support tax increases for fairness

If we are gonna worry about fair then we make it fair by cutting taxes, not raising them.


I know, right? But it is the evil union people . . . off with their heads!
Link Posted: 11/20/2012 10:45:52 AM EST

Republicans are supposed to be opposed to tax increases, for anyone. Even former union slugs. I dont know snyder but if he really raised taxes on pensions he's a RINO at best. Not a true capitalist.

Link Posted: 11/20/2012 10:51:27 AM EST
Originally Posted By AR15fan:
White, gun owning middle class retirees. Blaim thier republican govenor for taxing UAW retiree pensions. Pissed about rising health care costs.

Either voted for Obama or not at all. But were rather smug that Obama was re-elected and didnt like Romney at all.

The republicans have got to do a better job of reaching those kind of people in future elections.


Reagan was the last republican to have any success with this demographic and it took all his acting skills to pull it off.
Link Posted: 11/20/2012 10:55:05 AM EST
Originally Posted By AR15fan:

The republicans have got to do a better job of reaching those kind of people in future elections.


Not sending a liberal republican hack to do battle on behalf of conservatives ought to be a good start.
Link Posted: 11/20/2012 10:56:56 AM EST
Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Originally Posted By woodsie:
Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Originally Posted By GLHX2112:
I'm lucky, retirement pay is not taxed in PA. Obviously some states do tax retirees. Is this a new development in Michigan? Is all retiree pay taxed there, or just some ?

If that is a new development then there would be hell to pay, heck, there would be armed rampaging seniors on the streets here if the law was changed and hell to pay for any party that was in charge when the law changed. And, as for voting, Shit would roll up hill.

For the fixed income crowd, I believe money trumps principles for a lot of them. Some will say you can' t eat principles, and party loyalty goes down the toilet if you tax their pay.



Edit: Now I get it, UAW Motherfuckers were only pension plan not getting taxed by the state, unlike all the other pension plans, so now they are pissed. Fuck em. All or none. There should be no exemptions.
Aparently state, county and city workers were not taxed either. So they managed to piss off the cops, firefighters, teachers and autoworkers all in one stroke. If it was really a republican govenor that did that tax then its no suprise Romney lost Michigan.


It's no small wonder but it was the right thing to do.


A tax increase is not the right thing to do.

Every other retiree in Michigan who fell outside the above description pays state tax on their retirement income. There is absolutely no reason that the UAW and state employees should get a pass.


Then lower everyones to match what the UAW pensioners paid, dont raise taxes.
I cant believe you support tax increases for fairness

If we are gonna worry about fair then we make it fair by cutting taxes, not raising them.


You are just jumping from one platform to another when the ground shifts below your feet. The question was never whether state taxes are necessary or not but rather if one particular group should be exempt from paying them. I'm not here to debate the wisdom of Michigan's tax rate, only that it be applied to everyone without a sweetheart deal extended to one group as a political favor.

You can't ask the majority of retirees to foot the bill for a state's revenue needs while giving a politically connected minority an exemption. If you want to boil that down to something as simplistic as "OMG a tax increase", then shame on anyone who bites on that leaky logic.

FWIW, there wasn't a single group against the removal of that exemption who made the argument that all retirement income should be exempt from state taxes. If you want to make the argument that Michigan's state tax on ALL retirement income should be 0%, then go ahead and make it, but you didn't prior to this nor did anyone else who was opposed to getting rid of the exemption.






Link Posted: 11/20/2012 10:58:36 AM EST
Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Republicans are supposed to be opposed to tax increases, for anyone. Even former union slugs. I dont know snyder but if he really raised taxes on pensions he's a RINO at best. Not a true capitalist.



So Republicans are for certain classes of people not paying any taxes at all? I didn't realize that was part of the party platform.
Link Posted: 11/20/2012 10:59:59 AM EST
Originally Posted By AR15fan:
White, gun owning middle class retirees. Blaim thier republican govenor for taxing UAW retiree pensions. Pissed about rising health care costs.

Either voted for Obama or not at all. But were rather smug that Obama was re-elected and didnt like Romney at all.

The republicans have got to do a better job of reaching those kind of people in future elections.


Check back with them when the costs of Obamacare start biting them in the ass.

Link Posted: 11/20/2012 11:00:09 AM EST
Link Posted: 11/20/2012 11:07:47 AM EST
Originally Posted By danno-in-michigan:
Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Republicans are supposed to be opposed to tax increases, for anyone. Even former union slugs. I dont know snyder but if he really raised taxes on pensions he's a RINO at best. Not a true capitalist.



So Republicans are for certain classes of people not paying any taxes at all? I didn't realize that was part of the party platform.


any tax increase is bad. any tax cut is good.

Link Posted: 11/20/2012 11:10:44 AM EST
Originally Posted By woodsie:
Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Originally Posted By woodsie:
Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Originally Posted By GLHX2112:
I'm lucky, retirement pay is not taxed in PA. Obviously some states do tax retirees. Is this a new development in Michigan? Is all retiree pay taxed there, or just some ?

If that is a new development then there would be hell to pay, heck, there would be armed rampaging seniors on the streets here if the law was changed and hell to pay for any party that was in charge when the law changed. And, as for voting, Shit would roll up hill.

For the fixed income crowd, I believe money trumps principles for a lot of them. Some will say you can' t eat principles, and party loyalty goes down the toilet if you tax their pay.



Edit: Now I get it, UAW Motherfuckers were only pension plan not getting taxed by the state, unlike all the other pension plans, so now they are pissed. Fuck em. All or none. There should be no exemptions.
Aparently state, county and city workers were not taxed either. So they managed to piss off the cops, firefighters, teachers and autoworkers all in one stroke. If it was really a republican govenor that did that tax then its no suprise Romney lost Michigan.


It's no small wonder but it was the right thing to do.


A tax increase is not the right thing to do.

Every other retiree in Michigan who fell outside the above description pays state tax on their retirement income. There is absolutely no reason that the UAW and state employees should get a pass.


Then lower everyones to match what the UAW pensioners paid, dont raise taxes.
I cant believe you support tax increases for fairness

If we are gonna worry about fair then we make it fair by cutting taxes, not raising them.


You are just jumping from one platform to another when the ground shifts below your feet. The question was never whether state taxes are necessary or not but rather if one particular group should be exempt from paying them. I'm not here to debate the wisdom of Michigan's tax rate, only that it be applied to everyone without a sweetheart deal extended to one group as a political favor.

You can't ask the majority of retirees to foot the bill for a state's revenue needs while giving a politically connected minority an exemption. If you want to boil that down to something as simplistic as "OMG a tax increase", then shame on anyone who bites on that leaky logic.

FWIW, there wasn't a single group against the removal of that exemption who made the argument that all retirement income should be exempt from state taxes. If you want to make the argument that Michigan's state tax on ALL retirement income should be 0%, then go ahead and make it, but you didn't prior to this nor did anyone else who was opposed to getting rid of the exemption.








My position has always been that any tax cut is good and any tax increase is bad. I thought that was a pretty mainstream fiscal conservative veiwpoint. I'm surprised some people here think a tax increase is a good thing.
Link Posted: 11/20/2012 11:11:40 AM EST
Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Republicans are supposed to be opposed to tax increases, for anyone. Even former union slugs. I dont know snyder but if he really raised taxes on pensions he's a RINO at best. Not a true capitalist.



Most people are smart enough to know the difference between a tax increase and the elimination of a exemption for a politically connected special interest group. I suppose we can't eliminate the tax credit for Chevy volts either now because that would technically be a tax increase on volt owners right? The only way forward is to give everyone who buys a car a tax credit because anything else would be a tax increase if we stick to your logic.

I know you are speaking tongue in cheek because if we took your argument to it's logical conclusion and reduced all retiree's state tax to 0%, the unions would hate it because there would be considerably less revenue to pay their wages in the first place. That's why they never made the argument that the exemption should apply across the board in the first place and you know it.
Link Posted: 11/20/2012 11:12:24 AM EST
Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Originally Posted By danno-in-michigan:
Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Republicans are supposed to be opposed to tax increases, for anyone. Even former union slugs. I dont know snyder but if he really raised taxes on pensions he's a RINO at best. Not a true capitalist.



So Republicans are for certain classes of people not paying any taxes at all? I didn't realize that was part of the party platform.


any tax increase is bad. any tax cut is good.



I can see you smirking from across the internet when you say that.

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