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Posted: 1/7/2003 9:48:03 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/7/2003 9:55:02 PM EST by christopher_madsen]
In light of recent events, the thought had occured to me that being grunt, we usually don't get to pistol qual, and are stuck with our rifle/machine gun. Being without a sidearm in combat would just plain give me the willies. My SAW doesn't like sand much, I'd definitely want a backup. My question is, if I decided to bring my own pistol, as long as I would only be using FMJ (Geneva convention and blah blah blah) and my own supply of ammo (assuming it's not 9mm), is this allowable by law of war doctrine? Does anyone know for sure? Or is it up to the unit commander or whatnot to decide? Edited to add: MarineGrunt, if we go, the bulge in my pants isn't a pistol, its......uh, I'm just happy to be in the desert. [naughty]
Link Posted: 1/7/2003 9:51:39 PM EST
I would imagine it would be up to your chain of command. These are the same people that are known to put soldiers on guard duty without ammo for your issue rifle. My totally uneducated guess is no!
Link Posted: 1/7/2003 9:57:42 PM EST
2 things It is not the Geneva Conventions, it is the Hague Conventions. The US, even though it observes them, is not a signatory to the Hague Conventions, if I remember right. At to the 'legality' of toting your own, I think another thread sometime back had that, and It was decided that it was upto the Chain of Command to decide, cant remember at what level it was though.
Link Posted: 1/7/2003 9:58:34 PM EST
Have you tried posting in the Veteran's forum Chris?
Link Posted: 1/7/2003 10:04:29 PM EST
Nope, wouldn't know how to move the post.
Link Posted: 1/7/2003 10:11:07 PM EST
Why bother with a non-military caliber & have to tote your own FMJ? In order to avoid the usual idiot military/Marine officer BS I would also avoid packing a Beretta 92FS. I would take either a Glock 17/19 (or 18 >gg<) or perhaps a Hi-Power. A Sig P-226 wouldn't be a bad choice either.
Link Posted: 1/7/2003 10:28:37 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/7/2003 10:37:34 PM EST by Methos]
i would bring a ParaOrd P14 or regular 1911A1
Link Posted: 1/7/2003 10:50:46 PM EST
yep, all i got is my Colt 1991A1, .45 over 9mm any day of the week. 'specially with fmj ammo.
Link Posted: 1/7/2003 11:11:56 PM EST
It is forbidden by DOD instructions. However, I am sure that more than one personal firearm has made it into a combat zone.
Link Posted: 1/7/2003 11:35:15 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/7/2003 11:39:23 PM EST by RAMBOSKY]
I'd be carefull not to get it taken away from you by your unit commander and maybe a possible Article 15. Do you know anyone who has reciently come back? Or someone who is over there that you write to? Ask them if it's done by others and condoned. In Nam I had a Charter Arms .44 Bull Dog snub nose revolver. I wanted it for moving around "base camp". There were alot of "civilian" workers during the day at our fire base in Quan Loi. One never knew if they were VC or not. Rambosky
Link Posted: 1/7/2003 11:43:48 PM EST
Link Posted: 1/8/2003 1:09:40 AM EST
Well Devildog, as your squad leader I would advise you not to take your own personal sidearm on deployment. Check you IM for further information. [;)]
Link Posted: 1/8/2003 1:51:48 AM EST
I always used to take my own ammo on deployments to fun places. The Army loves to give you guns, but they are really uptight about giving you ammo for it. Getting stuff out of the country is easy, getting it back a little more difficult so I'd just leave it behind upon our return. Even on Funeral Detail I'd take a couple mags along in the van just in case. Funny story about the Army not being generous with ammo. When the whole 9/11 thing started Ft Campbell was a bitch to enter. I was going through the check point at the main gate and noticed the guard had a mag in the rifle with the bolt locked back and dust cover open. Suprise, no ammo in the mag! He assured me that he had ammo available.
Link Posted: 1/8/2003 2:15:24 AM EST
Originally Posted By Jeep29: Funny story about the Army not being generous with ammo. When the whole 9/11 thing started Ft Campbell was a bitch to enter. I was going through the check point at the main gate and noticed the guard had a mag in the rifle with the bolt locked back and dust cover open. Suprise, no ammo in the mag! He assured me that he had ammo available.
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Who is thier right mind would do something like that. But I heard this stuff happens all the time. I also heard that the guards on the USS Cole had rifles but no ammo either.
Link Posted: 1/8/2003 2:33:23 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/8/2003 2:34:02 AM EST by natez]
I think the theater commander for SWA has banned personal sidearms, or at least that is what others on this board have posted. It was almost always banned by a CG somewhere on most deployments I went on, many moons ago, but technically, the responsibility lies with the unit commander. Most OPLANS I saw regarding a real deployment had a line in them somewhere that banned personally-owned weapons, which would count as a lawful order. That being said, in two of the units I was in, personally-owned sidearms were allowed and encouraged by the unit commanders. In one unit, it was limited to personally owned 1911s that could pass for issued ones, and it was considered kind of mandatory for officers to get a tricked-out .45, at least if they were going to share the Battalion Commander's vision. In the other unit, the XO and Company Commander both had FFLs, and would actively sell pistols to their troops. They would sign out one the pistol ranges every Sunday morning, so that their guys could come out and shoot, and if you didn't bring enough ammo, the XO also sold boxes of 9mm and .45 that he reloaded for pretty decent prices.
Link Posted: 1/8/2003 2:35:13 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/8/2003 2:36:50 AM EST by LS1Eddie]
I was never checked so close that I couldn't have taken a sidearm any where I went. I do remember seeing how much closer the army guys were checked. Just before Desert Storm kicked off, I got a call from my captain asking me to bring John Doe with me. Turns out this kid had called his wife and asked her to send a shotgun to him. He had disassembled it and packed the parts in different boxes before we deployed. Intel weenies were monitoring our calls. Eddie
Link Posted: 1/8/2003 3:10:59 AM EST
I think they frown on personal sidearms because they are a considerable safety issue. They can't track what's out there, and don't want any incidents off base that involve a weapon they can't account for. One disruptive drunk with a gun can ruin it for every responsible person that desires a little more protection. I read during the Korean war there were cases where troops were asked to check in their personal firearms before going on leave, and were guaranteed to have them back when they returned.
Link Posted: 1/8/2003 3:39:02 AM EST
Let's get specific here... Who's been activated and deployed while in the reserve? How much personal stuff can you bring, in what type of container, and did anyone ever search it? If so, when, and what were the circumstances? QS
Link Posted: 1/8/2003 3:50:26 AM EST
... I've wondered whether civies could even travel to foreign lands in support of an "effort" with personal sidearms. I'd sure hope that if you pass a qualification test and the base armorer approves your weapon you'd be allowed to carry. ... But I doubt it. ... I'm sure thet'd allow me to take my MOPP Level 4 suit. Hell, they're both forms of protection!
Link Posted: 1/8/2003 4:23:27 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/8/2003 4:26:55 AM EST by Happyshooter]
Tough part is getting it back. Getting it there is easy. As a young Marine I learned a lesson early when at a Team Spirt there was an alert for the college punks to car bomb us. There was just enough ammo to arm the guards around the CP and the officer and staff tents. After that I always brought two mags of my own. I would always leave the rounds in the crapper at the airport when we were flying back (when we were boating it I just kept my yap shut). When I was an MP later on I also carried extra mags full of 9. Get an okay but used glock 26, in 9, for cheap, and bury it in the sand the day you go to fly home. Otherwise keep it in a pouch where you know where it is until you need it. Don't get drunk or lonely and tell your buddy about it. You can keep your mouth shut, I did for years.
Link Posted: 1/8/2003 5:20:08 AM EST
couldn't you just disassemble it and drop it in the mail to a buddy with no return address?
Link Posted: 1/8/2003 5:28:40 AM EST
That is why the Lorcin never loses. You could afford to ditch it. It might be hard to get .32ACP in the combat zone however.
Link Posted: 1/8/2003 6:02:44 AM EST
Originally Posted By Jeep29: I was going through the check point at the main gate and noticed the guard had a mag in the rifle with the bolt locked back and dust cover open. Suprise, no ammo in the mag! He assured me that he had ammo available.
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This is one of the many reasons I would have never made it in the military. If my C.O. told me to go and guard a post, patch of land, a hill WHATEVER, in wartime or at peace, and then would not issue me ammo, I'd tell them to kiss my lily white sac. Ammo was available my ass, then why aint it in his weapon? What a crock.
Link Posted: 1/8/2003 6:38:13 AM EST
Back in the 1CD, I had a Platoon Sergeant who carried a SS Colt Gold Cup in the field.
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