Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
BCM
Member Login

Site Notices
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 2
Posted: 4/16/2007 8:09:45 AM EDT
If you are walking down a city street with wife/G/F/parents/kids and are confronted by five ganstas with knives and fireamrs . . . what do you do?

You can't retreat.

Do you walk into the threat and establish fire superiority?

Walk & Shoot afternoon at the Impact Zone

Spent yesterday afternoon with a suppressed Glock .22 & my M-11 practicing walking and shooting.

I noticed that I would sometimes stop while changing mags onthe SMG.  I would also fail to keep the SMG pointed at the trhreat while changing mags.
Link Posted: 4/16/2007 8:11:28 AM EDT

Quoted:
If you are walking down a city street with wife/G/F/parents/kids and are confronted by five ganstas with knives and fireamrs . . . what do you do?

You can't retreat.

Do you walk into the threat and establish fire superiority?

Walk & Shoot afternoon at the Impact Zone

Spent yesterday afternoon with a suppressed Glock .22 & my M-11 practicing walking and shooting.

I noticed that I would sometimes stop while changing mags onthe SMG.  I would also fail to keep the SMG pointed at the trhreat while changing mags.


You should practice walking and chewing bubblegum.

Goober.

TRG
Link Posted: 4/16/2007 8:12:16 AM EDT
I'd go all John Woo on those punks and dive sideways in slow-mo while firing wildly, but accurately, from two nickle-plated Beretta 92's with gold engraving.

After I did a combat roll and stood back up, all the gansta's would be dead and my pistols would be empty and smoking.  

Then I'd fuck my girlfriend right there on the sidewalk.
Link Posted: 4/16/2007 8:13:07 AM EDT
TRG:

I tried that once, got all tripped up!

Hell, I'm doing good to walk and not fall down in the first place.

Funny thing:  watching the video- you see all kinds of shit that you are unaware of on the range while its happening.
Link Posted: 4/16/2007 8:14:12 AM EDT

Quoted:
I'd go all John Woo on those punks and dive sideways in slow-mo while firing wildly, but accurately, from two nickle-plated Beretta 92's with gold engraving.

After I did a combat roll and stood back up, all the gansta's would be dead and my pistols would be empty and smoking.  

Then I'd fuck my girlfriend right there on the sidewalk.


Chuck Norris would just stare them to death.  One Look is all it would take
Link Posted: 4/16/2007 8:18:43 AM EDT
Give em high fives!

"Ganstas" stick together.

Its those suburbanites looking to throw down you have worry about.
Link Posted: 4/16/2007 8:24:28 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/16/2007 8:26:13 AM EDT
I have tried this out at my place before.  One thing you notice right off the bat is your accuracy goes to hell.  The faster you move, the worse you shoot.  One other thing, if you are shooting and moving to cover, it seems to take forever once you get to low cover to shooting, especially on the weak side.
Link Posted: 4/16/2007 8:27:49 AM EDT
It's not a bad thing to practice, but let's not forget the basics. Most gun fights still take place at a distance of 7 feet and are over in 3 seconds or less.

If there's 5 of them, then chances are that one of them will get you before you get all of them. Your best bet is to go back the way that you came.
Link Posted: 4/16/2007 8:30:24 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/16/2007 8:37:36 AM EDT

Quoted:
I'd go all John Woo on those punks and dive sideways in slow-mo while firing wildly, but accurately, from two nickle-plated Beretta 92's with gold engraving.

After I did a combat roll and stood back up, all the gansta's would be dead and my pistols would be empty and smoking.  

Then I'd fuck my girlfriend right there on the sidewalk.


Link Posted: 4/16/2007 8:40:49 AM EDT

Quoted:
Keep your knees together, squat down and duck walk.  As already mentioned you go heal to toe when moving forward.  Do it right and the wobble is controllable.  You don't have to move too fast.

If you are not shooting you need to be moving.  Some folks teach that if you are moving you are reloading.

Try the box drill and it will help you get more proficient moving and shooting.

Mark


Funny that you should say this.  Your not the first either.

There is the other school of thought, from an old and severely proficient guy, that you simply walk and shoot when the front sight is on the target.
Link Posted: 4/16/2007 8:47:20 AM EDT
Shoot the biggest guy with the biggest gun and work down from there.

Advance or seek cover.
Link Posted: 4/16/2007 10:29:57 AM EDT
For even more fun start the practice stage pushing a baby stroller. When the bad guys appear pull out your suppressed MAC-11 from the bottom rack of the baby stroller (doesn’t everyone keep one there?) and fire one handed while continuing to push the baby stroller. Extra points for pulling it behind you, giving baby some cover with your body. At the first major obstacle you reload, retrieve baby in one arm, and continue the advance firing one handed. When you get to the mini van place baby in car seat and dump one more mag (retrieved from diaper bag in van) at the bad guys before jumping in the drivers seat, thus ending the baby stroller mini-van stage.
Link Posted: 4/16/2007 10:35:13 AM EDT
It annoys me to see people do the duck walk.
I know you shoot like you train, so maybe they will duck walk when they have to shoot and move for cover. Maybe they won't

I actually run when moving to cover. The first time they did that at an idpa match, I heard laughing behind me as I started to run.
It stopped when they heard the steel popper ping.
Now I am not a great shooter, but I can shoot when I am actually moving, not pretending to be Chuck Berry at a concert.
Link Posted: 4/16/2007 10:52:12 AM EDT
You can make hits while at a full run?
Link Posted: 4/16/2007 10:56:57 AM EDT
I just practiced multiple targets yesterday in my basement with an airsoft gun.

I have found Airsoft is pretty good for this kind of training situation. It also shows you that if you get into an engagement with more than one guy, your chances of coming out unscathed go down in a hurry.

Seriously, get an airsoft gun that matches your carry piece, a few boxes filled with newspaper with "gomer" targets on them, and game it out. You will be a better shooter when you go to the range.

edit: and don't forget, it will get harder once bad guy #2 sees you shoot BG #1 and decides he wants to shoot you, but doesn't want to get shot himself, so he starts moving... It gets harder and harder the more bad guys you add in...
Link Posted: 4/16/2007 10:59:08 AM EDT
You want honest?

As soon as you fire one shot they scatter like cockroaches.

Cowards.
Link Posted: 4/16/2007 11:14:06 AM EDT
That looks like fun. I'd love to come shooting with you guys.
Link Posted: 4/16/2007 11:21:01 AM EDT

Quoted:
You can make hits while at a full run?

Wouldn't call it a full run, but better than a jog. Yes. I was moving so fast, I had to back up because even though I heard the hit, the plate hadn't fallen yet by the time I reached the other cover.
Link Posted: 4/16/2007 8:21:23 PM EDT
I have an airsoft G17.

Its time to get it out and use it.
Link Posted: 4/16/2007 8:26:19 PM EDT
height=8
Quoted:
You want honest?

As soon as you fire one shot they scatter like cockroaches.

Cowards.
+1. Typically there will be a "leader" in the bunch. Shoot THAT guy in the face. The remaining asshats will likely fuck-off quite hurriedly.
Link Posted: 4/16/2007 8:41:28 PM EDT
I'd yell "Hey is that Ron Artest?" while pointing across the street.  By the time they realize they've been fooled, I'm drawn and behind cover.  
Link Posted: 4/16/2007 8:43:29 PM EDT

Quoted:
I'd go all John Woo on those punks and dive sideways in slow-mo while firing wildly, but accurately, from two nickle-plated Beretta 92's with gold engraving.

After I did a combat roll and stood back up, all the gansta's would be dead and my pistols would be empty and smoking.  

Then I'd fuck my girlfriend right there on the sidewalk.


Big plus one.
Link Posted: 4/16/2007 8:43:49 PM EDT
Dude just stand still.  They wont hit you if you stand still lol.  
Link Posted: 4/16/2007 8:45:38 PM EDT
Lateral movement.
Link Posted: 4/16/2007 8:50:47 PM EDT
Being the the tactical mental giant that i am. I would totally run TOWARDS the 5 armed men that are 50 yards out while firing wildly.


Using the distance i already have and the time it gives me to retreat from overwhelming numbers and weapons and hopefully find cover or get the hell out of dodge would make way too much sense.

Come on, seriously. Even navy seals are trained not to do stupid stuff like this. When they run up on a force 5 times their size, they fire while RETREATING. Sometimes the dont even fire at all, they just try to sneak away or go un-noticed.

Engaging 5 random gang bangers on the street at 30+ yards just because they have guns is more like a job for a swat team or national guard detatchment. Leave the John Woo stuff to John Woo.
Link Posted: 4/16/2007 8:54:03 PM EDT
Good points.

But, what do yo do with your wife/GF?

Remember, you can only retreat back.
Since we are on teh subject of Navy SEALS:  what do they do in ambushes?
Link Posted: 4/16/2007 9:24:41 PM EDT
At that distance you don't move into them.  You move the fuck away with your wife and daughter.  50 yards isn't an easy shot for most people who shoot regularly, and it sure as hell won't be an easy one for some (usually) untrained banger.  If you are a good shot, you can try and take out one or two, keeping them supressed while your family escapes.
Basically you break contact.


But, what do yo do with your wife/GF?

You give her whatever supressive fire she needs as she's running the fuck away, towards the nearest cover.  Around the corner is best of course.  If she's not moving, you tell her to run.


Since we are on teh subject of Navy SEALS: what do they do in ambushes?


What range?  At close range, like under 35 meters at the most, they will do the turn and charge thing.
Any further and I believe that they use the peel technique.  The point man fires a full mag on burst/auto, then falls back.  The next man does the same then falls back, and so on and so on.  The guys with belt fed weapons fire off some fairly long or many quick bursts instead.  Same technique that many Army scout platoons use.
Link Posted: 4/16/2007 9:27:37 PM EDT

Quoted:
I'd go all John Woo on those punks and dive sideways in slow-mo while firing wildly, but accurately, from two nickle-plated Beretta 92's with gold engraving.

After I did a combat roll and stood back up, all the gansta's would be dead and my pistols would be empty and smoking.  

Then I'd fuck my girlfriend right there on the sidewalk.


you mean you'd fuck MY girlfriend right there on the sidewalk.

Link Posted: 4/16/2007 9:35:21 PM EDT
If there are 30 gangbangers chasing me from behind and only 5 are blocking the path to the front, shooting on the move like that is perfectly fine.

Heck, I used to work for a Captain who's Hummer was surrounded and stopped by a crowd in Mogadishu. He and the driver exited and ran like hell with the crowd in pursuit. I'm sure they would have had no problem with taking on five dudes blocking their path at a run rather than face the crowd chasing them.

As it was they made a mad dash down a dead end alley. Ooops, wrong turn. Then they turned around and saw the fastest runner from the crowd was almost on top of them and was holding a knife out in front of him. The Capt fired his Beretta into the dude as he closed, emptied the entire magazine into the guy, and got stabbed with the knife as the guy fell dead at his feet and the slide locked back on the empty Beretta.

The rest of the crowd, upon hearing all those shots scattered like sheep and didn't bother them anymore so they walked out. The Capt then got an ROTC assignment, got promoted to Major, married one of his young female students, and lived happily ever after. The end.
Link Posted: 4/16/2007 9:46:43 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/16/2007 9:50:08 PM EDT
frag

or use the car

just to note: would you be having either the M-11 or the suppressed glock (or other supieror firepower) to break the ambush directly?
Link Posted: 4/16/2007 9:50:50 PM EDT

Quoted:
Good points.

But, what do yo do with your wife/GF?

Remember, you can only retreat back.
Since we are on teh subject of Navy SEALS:  what do they do in ambushes?


My GF has been told to do one of two things:

1. If there's cover, go for cover while I lay down suppressive fire and find separate cover for myself. Once you get to cover stay under cover no matter what, if i get hit, scream for help, ect. No matter she keeps her cover. I may be playing dead or the BG may be using me to bait others.

2. If theres no cover, she ducks down behind me and keeps her right hand on my belt. She also holds partial mags for a tactical reload later if needed.

When she gets around to getting her CHL, she will rush the 5 armed BG's while firing her Mac-11 wildly and jumping into the air with crazy ninja moves while i find cover and prepare the tactical nuke.

Lord, this site gets ludricous and exhausting sometimes.

Link Posted: 4/16/2007 10:01:14 PM EDT
eh - sounds like a lot of arm chair commando postulating.

5 vs 1 with people you have to protect?? In the words of Commander Kril from The Last Starfighter:

"What do we do?"

"We die."

Though if one had the luck, skill, and God on their side they could probably walk away without anyone hurt. More of an exception than the rule.
Link Posted: 4/16/2007 10:04:20 PM EDT

Quoted:
Lord, this site gets ludricous and exhausting sometimes.



What?

You don't walk around town with your wife and girlfriend and baby while carrying a suppressed submachine gun?

Link Posted: 4/16/2007 10:07:49 PM EDT
Ambush or direct contact?

Ambush - push or pull. There is no sticking around. Either push through it or pull out of it. Otherwise, you're dead.

Direct contact - Move. choose your shots quickly. Take advantage of cover.
Link Posted: 4/16/2007 10:13:33 PM EDT

Quoted:
TRG:

I tried that once, got all tripped up!

Hell, I'm doing good to walk and not fall down in the first place.

Funny thing:  watching the video- you see all kinds of shit that you are unaware of on the range while its happening.


A friend of mine, a credentialed instructor, is teaching me move-and-shoot with handguns. He insists we practice at "normal" combat ranges: 7-10 feet. Makes a lot of sense: if you stand in one place, you're gonna get shot.

In reference to you falling down: I've taken a little combative stuff over the years (wrestled in HS, fencing in college, a few karate courses, and even playing raquetball). NEVER, NEVER cross your ankles! NEVER let one foot get behind the other. SHUFFLE side-to-side; this way if you need to make a sudden change in direction, or move forward or back, you won't trip. I taught this to my friend and he's practicing it now.
Link Posted: 4/16/2007 10:15:32 PM EDT

Quoted:
Shoot the biggest guy with the biggest gun and work down from there.

Advance or seek cover.


Roger that.
Link Posted: 4/16/2007 10:57:59 PM EDT

Quoted:

Quoted:
Lord, this site gets ludricous and exhausting sometimes.



What?

You don't walk around town with your wife and girlfriend and baby while carrying a suppressed submachine gun?



Not on the sabbath! You heathens!
Link Posted: 4/16/2007 11:21:59 PM EDT
I think a better course of action would be to throw them a basketball
Link Posted: 4/16/2007 11:30:36 PM EDT
Assess which threat is the greatest (closest, biggest, most well armed) and shoot it while doing everything in your power to get to cover and out of danger. You're not setting up a fort, you're shooting your way out of dodge.

5v1...pray they just have pocket knives and lots of stupid
Link Posted: 4/16/2007 11:38:05 PM EDT

and lots of stupid


Which is very likely...
Link Posted: 4/16/2007 11:45:03 PM EDT
Why do you wonder this? Are you going to Germany and joining the Bundeswehr?
Link Posted: 4/17/2007 12:00:46 AM EDT

Quoted:

Quoted:
You want honest?

As soon as you fire one shot they scatter like cockroaches.

Cowards.
+1. Typically there will be a "leader" in the bunch. Shoot THAT guy in the face. The remaining asshats will likely fuck-off quite hurriedly.


Fight or flight.
Chances are that they will flee once the first one drops.

Keep your priorities.

Kill the leader first. He will be the closest to you.

Kill the next closest man, or the one who is armed with a superior weapon to yours.

Try not to dizzy yourself... Line 'em up and mow them down.


As for what you would do about your wife/gf, that's a moral argument.
But your first thought (if defending), would be to throw her down or pull her back, depending on your location.
Link Posted: 4/17/2007 2:27:02 AM EDT

Quoted:
I think a better course of action would be to throw them a basketball


Whats with your username?

Link Posted: 4/18/2007 5:14:04 AM EDT
The first thing to do with our wife/GF:
1.  If you love her:  Pull her behind you and [put yourself between her and the threat.
2.  If  a divorce is pending:  Pull her in front of you and put her between you and the threat- then retreat while shooting

Seriously, the whole point of standing and moving into 5 armed guys would be to buy time for your wife/GF/kids to put distance between themselves and the threat.
Link Posted: 4/18/2007 5:18:49 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/18/2007 5:22:54 AM EDT

Quoted:
I think a better course of action would be to throw them a basketball


or a futbol depending on your environment
Link Posted: 4/18/2007 5:23:28 AM EDT

Quoted:
Good points.

But, what do yo do with your wife/GF?

Remember, you can only retreat back.
Since we are on teh subject of Navy SEALS:  what do they do in ambushes?


Concealment.  If she's fat enough, cover.  
Link Posted: 4/18/2007 5:24:34 AM EDT

Quoted:
If you are walking down a city street with wife/G/F/parents/kids and are confronted by five ganstas with knives and fireamrs . . . what do you do?

You can't retreat.

Do you walk into the threat and establish fire superiority?

Walk & Shoot afternoon at the Impact Zone

Spent yesterday afternoon with a suppressed Glock .22 & my M-11 practicing walking and shooting.

I noticed that I would sometimes stop while changing mags onthe SMG.  I would also fail to keep the SMG pointed at the trhreat while changing mags.

Inappropriate weaponry for the scenario given, for non-military or LE personnel.
You wont have a FA on you while walking down a street with family members.
Why can't you retreat on a public street?
If you've shot to slide lock, itself a tactical error,  you should be practicing moving to whatever cover is available. Don't be caught in the open with an empty firearm.
You are also taking your eyes off the threat while changing mags. You should be able to do so without taking eyes off the target.
You've never shot your weapon with iron sights? Amazing. Too much reliance on technology.
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 2
Top Top