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Posted: 8/14/2007 7:42:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/14/2007 7:58:53 AM EDT by tankdriver]
Boy, this was keep quite....

Article is usual news cowboy legal killing stuff....

http://www.wreg.com/Global/story.asp?S=6261208


MEMPHIS, TN -- With a legal handgun carry permit and a clean criminal history, there is no limit to how and where you can kill someone in self-defense in Tennessee, according to a Shelby County judge.

Shelby County Criminal Court Judge Chris Craft says the state's new 'Stand Your Ground' law, which went into effect May 22, not only gives "persons (with gun carry licenses) who are not engaged in criminal activity" limitless power to kill in self-defense, but it also strips criminals of their rights to self-defense, even against other criminals.

"Hopefully, there will be a lot less drug-dealers killing each other...a lot other people who won't be, particularly gangs, that are shooting at each other," Craft says. "They won't be able to claim self-defense because they are breaking the law."

"For the person who does not have a permit and is illegally carrying a gun, there is no more self-defense as I understand this statute," says Marvin Ballin, a Memphis criminal defense attorney.

Under the law, Tennessee citizens who own guns but no carry permit may only use the guns in self-defense when they are inside their homes.

The law allows law-abiding citizens with state handgun carry licenses to use deadly force in their homes, out in public, even in their cars. In fact, the only significant limits the law puts on a law-abiding citizen to defend himself is when the perceived threat is a law-enforcement officer or someone who is carrying or transporting a child.

"It draws the line between permit-holders and non-permit-holders," says Kristen Bauer, a certified shooting instructor at RangeUSA (www.rangeusa.com) in East Memphis, "and helping, you know, divide that difference between good and evil."

The law also says it will "...provide immunity from civil liability for a person who uses lawful force in defense of self, others or property..." In short, a private citizen could not be sued by an attacker or the attacker's family if the attacker is hurt or killed by the citizen's lawful act of self-defense.

"Now we really have a way to protect ourselves and not worry about legal court issues coming up later," says Bauer.

At least one self-defense expert says self-defense legal immunity has been the law in Tennessee for eight years. Tom Givens, owner and firearms trainer at Rangemaster (www.rangemaster.com) in East Memphis, points to the Good Samaritan Act of 1999. The law, amended to state code dating back to 1975, says any "...person who is injured while committing a felony...is barred from recovery of actual or punitive damages..."

"As far as a criminal being able to sue you for injuring him while attacking you, it's already Tennessee state law," says Givens. "He can't do that."

Yes he can, says Mike Roberts. Roberts, an attorney and law professor who was once the handgun instructor for the Shelby County Sheriff's Office, says immunity from civil liability is unconstitutional, and state law cannot guarantee immunity to citizens.

"Immunity statutes are struck down left and right everyday," says Roberts. "The constitutional question is that people have the right of access to the courts. You can't ban me from being sued just because (I lawfully killed someone in self-defense)."
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 7:51:17 AM EDT
Wow, what a biased article.


I wonder which pro-gun group helped get that passed? Probably the same one that has gotten similar laws passed in a dozen other states. The NRA.

Can someone show me a link where GOA even mentioned the Castle Doctrine in Tennessee?



-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tennessee Governor Phil Bredesen Signs Castle Doctrine Bill Into Law


Wednesday, May 23, 2007


Fairfax, VA - Tennessee Governor Phil Bredesen has signed into law the National Rifle Association (NRA)-backed “Castle Doctrine” bill (HB 1907) bringing common sense self-defense protections to law-abiding Tennesseans.

“Gov. Bredesen and Tennessee lawmakers recognize the value of ensuring that law-abiding citizens have the option and the right to protect themselves when criminals attack,” said Chris W. Cox, NRA’s chief lobbyist. “This is a victim’s rights measure that puts the law on the side of victims, who don’t have the luxury of time when confronted by a criminal. This law removes any mandate of forcible retreat set either in state statute or in case law.”

The “Castle Doctrine” bill passed in both chambers with unanimous bipartisan support. This legislation allows an individual to use force to protect him or herself wherever they have a legal right to be. The bill also provides civil immunity for those who defend themselves from criminal attack.

“On behalf of NRA members in Tennessee, I applaud Representative Randy Rinks (D-71), and Senators Doug Jackson (D-25) and Paul Stanley (R-31), for their diligence in passing this important bill into law,” concluded Cox. “The Castle Doctrine bill is about putting the law back on the side of the victim the way it’s supposed to be.”

Link Posted: 8/14/2007 7:55:53 AM EDT
Ohio has a bill in the house and senate, and our (Democrat) governor supports it.

I've got my fingers crossed. I wish they'd hurry the hell up.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 7:58:22 AM EDT
Is this an op-ed piece? If that is what passes for an article there is laughable.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 7:59:10 AM EDT
I'm both happy and sad.

I was aware of the stand yourground law...and was quite thrilled.


The OP's article is downright fucking garbage though. I don't know that I've ever read a more slanted, subjective piece.

"but it also strips criminals of their rights to self-defense, even against other criminals."

OH TEH NOES!!!!11!!11


"strips" criminals of their rights?

Link Posted: 8/14/2007 8:03:22 AM EDT
Criminals have a right to gunz
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 8:09:57 AM EDT

... there is no limit to how and where you can kill someone in self-defense in Tennessee...
um... actually, law abiding citizens don't run around KILLING people - criminals, on the other hand, have been ILLEGALLY carrying weapons and killing UNARMED people.

But, we don't need to get logic involved in this discussion, it would only muddy the water.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 8:10:24 AM EDT
I never knew Andy Wise (the article's author) was so anti. He's the guy that does the weekly "On Your Side" segment where he outs bad merchants, provides good tips for consumers, reviews new products and documents which is best, etc. Sounds like I need to stick with my opinion that everyone in the general media is not to be trusted.

E-95
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 8:10:37 AM EDT
If I'm reading this correctly, a non-permit holder driving through the state has no right to protect themselves? If so, this law kinda sucks.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 8:17:35 AM EDT
I am glad my CCP is good in TN......
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 8:22:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By E-95:
I never knew Andy Wise (the article's author) was so anti. He's the guy that does the weekly "On Your Side" segment where he outs bad merchants, provides good tips for consumers, reviews new products and documents which is best, etc. Sounds like I need to stick with my opinion that everyone in the general media is not to be trusted.

E-95


Dont think andy is anti,

He has a carry permit, and has self described himself as one of the few 'gun guys' in the news.

Link Posted: 8/14/2007 8:23:18 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 8:23:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Strider47:
If I'm reading this correctly, a non-permit holder driving through the state has no right to protect themselves? If so, this law kinda sucks.


get a CCP and you're covered in TN.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 8:33:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Silence:

Originally Posted By E-95:
I never knew Andy Wise (the article's author) was so anti. He's the guy that does the weekly "On Your Side" segment where he outs bad merchants, provides good tips for consumers, reviews new products and documents which is best, etc. Sounds like I need to stick with my opinion that everyone in the general media is not to be trusted.

E-95


Dont think andy is anti,

He has a carry permit, and has self described himself as one of the few 'gun guys' in the news.



I thought I'd heard somewhere that he had his permit . . . but why the slanted article then? I actually kinda like the guy. His segments are logical and he always seems genuinely concerned for the average Joe on the street.

By the way, for those interested here's the summary for the House and Senate bills: www.legislature.state.tn.us/bills/currentga/asp/WebBillInfo/Summary.aspx?BillNumber=HB1907.

E-95
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 8:38:11 AM EDT
bad writing?

Bad editing?

Who knows.

Other than him being unclear about what that dork judge chris craft is saying, it doenst seem too slanted.

I know andy has done segments on getting a permit, and how to go about it, etc.

Link Posted: 8/14/2007 8:43:55 AM EDT
that article is worse than anything I've read in the tennessean , and the're very slanted. mabey one of the fords had a hand in writing this. our current govenor is very RKBA , he's the one that signed the NFA law as well.

this is the first I've heard of this law being signed into place yet.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 8:44:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Subnet:
Ohio has a bill in the house and senate, and our (Democrat) governor supports it.

I've got my fingers crossed. I wish they'd hurry the hell up.


+1
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 12:12:58 PM EDT

"As far as a criminal being able to sue you for injuring him while attacking you, it's already Tennessee state law," says Givens. "He can't do that."

Yes he can, says Mike Roberts. Roberts, an attorney and law professor who was once the handgun instructor for the Shelby County Sheriff's Office, says immunity from civil liability is unconstitutional, and state law cannot guarantee immunity to citizens.




I would ask him (or anyone else) to explain how there's a difference between the "Good Samaritan" laws that shield those who help an accident victim from being sued for their attempted help & the "stand your ground" shields?????????
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 12:15:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rob78:

The OP's article is downright fucking garbage though. I don't know that I've ever read a more slanted, subjective piece.

"but it also strips criminals of their rights to self-defense, even against other criminals."


"strips" criminals of their rights?



+1

w...t...f.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 12:35:07 PM EDT
Haha.

Please see Swindle1984 "The Liberal: An Analysis "

http://www.jobrelatedstuff.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=593100

Man-o-man....he's got the author of this drivel pegged!!!

Hypocrisy: Liberals are overwhelmingly hypocritical. Feinstein works daily to deprive Americans of their right to own firearms, and yet she carries a gun in her purse and has machinegun-wielding bodyguards. Several key leaders in Handgun Control Incorporated, the Million Moms, the Brady Bunch, and other anti-gun organizations have been arrested for illegal possession of a firearm or using a firearm in relation to other illegal activities. ...

Unfamiliarity with reality: Most liberals live in a form of denial. They don't like the real world. They don't want to live in the real world. They would much rather live in a make-believe world where everything goes their way. If they don't convince themselves that they DO live in this make-believe world already, they will strive to make this 'utopia' come about for real. Most, upon being rudely awakened by reality, will express outrage, indignation, and a profound sense of hurt that the world would be so cruel as to shatter their illusions.......

Paranoia: Many liberals are rabidly paranoid. What's more, they enjoy projecting this paranoia on others....

Nanny knows best: The easiest way to tell if someone is a liberal is to find out how much they want to meddle in your business....

Victim status: Liberals love victims. The overwhelming majority of liberal 'reasoning' is based exclusively on emotion rather than logic or reason. Hence, why it seems that the majority of people buying into the liberal agenda are immature, selfish, delusional whiners who would rather have ANYBODY take responsibility for their actions than themselves......

The rant in-full is an arfcom classic !
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 12:39:43 PM EDT
Tennessee is looking better every day. What a model for the rest of the nation. Criminals should not have any recourse to lawsuits should they be shot by their intended victims or fall through a skylight (like we have here in California). It's called consequences and the criminals should accept the consequences of their actions.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 12:41:09 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 12:42:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 4v50:
Tennessee is looking better every day. What a model for the rest of the nation. Criminals should not have any recourse to lawsuits should they be shot by their intended victims or fall through a skylight (like we have here in California). It's called consequences and the criminals should accept the consequences of their actions.


We'd be golden if not for our public school system.

Unfortunately, we follow the "throw money at it and it'll get betta'" type of reasoning.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 12:43:25 PM EDT
I'm glad to see TN has now established this. First my home state of FL, then my vacation residence in GA is covered, now the state where I spend most of my leisure time, TN.

Link Posted: 8/14/2007 12:45:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rob78:
www.handgunlaw.us/maps/tennessee_map.gif



I need to get the hell out of this God forsaken state
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 12:47:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/14/2007 12:51:15 PM EDT by Strider47]

Originally Posted By rob78:

Originally Posted By Strider47:
If I'm reading this correctly, a non-permit holder driving through the state has no right to protect themselves? If so, this law kinda sucks.


get a CCP and you're covered in TN.


I understand and I'm cool in that regard. I don't like the slippery slope aspect of it. A person law abiding citizen shouldn't need a piece of paper to be able to protect themselves when traveling through another state. The way I'm reading the new law is that it makes a law abiding civilian a criminal by traveling through the state without a CCW (where it was legal before). Maybe I'm reading it wrong...
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 12:51:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Maxwell71:

Originally Posted By rob78:
www.handgunlaw.us/maps/tennessee_map.gif



I need to get the hell out of this God forsaken state



I feel your pain.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 12:52:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SWIRE:
Wow, what a biased article.


I wonder which pro-gun group helped get that passed? Probably the same one that has gotten similar laws passed in a dozen other states. The NRA.

Can someone show me a link where GOA even mentioned the Castle Doctrine in Tennessee?



I'm sure they opposed the CCW law calling it "backdoor registration" though.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 1:03:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Strider47:

Originally Posted By rob78:

Originally Posted By Strider47:
If I'm reading this correctly, a non-permit holder driving through the state has no right to protect themselves? If so, this law kinda sucks.


get a CCP and you're covered in TN.


I understand and I'm cool in that regard. I don't like the slippery slope aspect of it. A person law abiding citizen shouldn't need a piece of paper to be able to protect themselves when traveling through another state. The way I'm reading the new law is that it makes a law abiding civilian a criminal by traveling through the state without a CCW (where it was legal before). Maybe I'm reading it wrong...


I'm no lawyer.

But I didn't see where anything has changed in that regard. Our law hasn't changed...without a CCP your firearm must be "Secured" and your magazine/ammo must be secured in a place "not easily accessible" (like a locked glovebox)-the two cannot be stored together.

I understand your side though. I don't think a person should have to have a "piece of paper" to defend yourself. We're stuck with it now and the fact that I can carry anywhere in the US I actually WANT to go is good enough for me. The only issue I've had was in Illinois while passing through to Indiana...figured I was just screwed if I got pulled over.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 1:04:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/14/2007 1:06:28 PM EDT by ThatGuy91K]

Originally Posted By tankdriver:
snip
MEMPHIS, TN -- With a legal handgun carry permit and a clean criminal history, there is no limit to how and where you can kill someone in self-defense in Tennessee, according to a Shelby County judge.




ZOMG!!! da peoples gonna start a rampage for self defense!!1one!



ETA: I are a gud spelr
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 1:06:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rob78:

We'd be golden if not for our public school system.

Unfortunately, we follow the "throw money at it and it'll get betta'" type of reasoning.



Find me a school system run by liberals, filled with minorities whom are minor gangbangers & overrun with illegals that is a top-notch school system.................
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 1:08:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Strider47:
The way I'm reading the new law is that it makes a law abiding civilian a criminal by traveling through the state without a CCW (where it was legal before). Maybe I'm reading it wrong...




TN state law forbids anyone from transporting a loaded firearm in their vehicle if said person is not a LE/military person on duty.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 1:26:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BobCole:

Originally Posted By rob78:

We'd be golden if not for our public school system.

Unfortunately, we follow the "throw money at it and it'll get betta'" type of reasoning.



Find me a school system run by liberals, filled with minorities whom are minor gangbangers & overrun with illegals that is a top-notch school system.................


I agree 100% Bob.

I think a larger problem is that not every kid's cut out to be an astronaut, yet the fed government thinks they should perform at the same level as the others.

Some parents will eventually have to understand that little Tommy's niche in life may be a lettuce picker...not an MD.

The lottery money for "public ed" is a fucking joke which in reality ends up in a slush fund. Sending lottery proceeds to ghetto rats so "dey can gets to college too" is fucking joke. I think thy've dropped lottery scholarship requirements for the 2nd time.

anywho, sorry for the hijack.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 1:36:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 4v50:
Tennessee is looking better every day. What a model for the rest of the nation. Criminals should not have any recourse to lawsuits should they be shot by their intended victims or fall through a skylight (like we have here in California). It's called consequences and the criminals should accept the consequences of their actions.


Actually, most of the other southeastern states already have "Castle Doctrine" laws just like this one in place. For some reason, TN has just taken longer than the rest of us "rednecks" to get around to protecting it's law abiding citizens.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 1:39:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Osirus23:

Originally Posted By SWIRE:
Wow, what a biased article.


I wonder which pro-gun group helped get that passed? Probably the same one that has gotten similar laws passed in a dozen other states. The NRA.

Can someone show me a link where GOA even mentioned the Castle Doctrine in Tennessee?



I'm sure they opposed the CCW law calling it "backdoor registration" though.


Oh jeez. Another person who hates the fact that GOA stands up for freedom.

Actually, CCW laws are unconstitutional. All states should have carry "laws" like Alaska and Vermont... meaning NO permit required to exercise your RIGHTS. The 2nd amendment says "shall not be infringed". What part of that do people not understand?
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 1:41:08 PM EDT
Id say this is on the right track.

Open carry for everyone
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 1:42:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tankdriver:

Under the law, Tennessee citizens who own guns but no carry permit may only use the guns in self-defense when they are inside their homes.

The law allows law-abiding citizens with state handgun carry licenses to use deadly force in their homes, out in public, even in their cars. In fact, the only significant limits the law puts on a law-abiding citizen to defend himself is when the perceived threat is a law-enforcement officer or someone who is carrying or transporting a child.




Gee, and all this time I thought the Constitution "allowed" all that...
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 2:03:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By runcible:

Originally Posted By Maxwell71:

Originally Posted By rob78:
www.handgunlaw.us/maps/tennessee_map.gif



I need to get the hell out of this God forsaken state



I feel your pain.


Hey guys, move to Pa.

There are still enough of us here, that we keep the idiocy to a minimum and if more of us move here, we can really keep the Pittsburg and Philadelphia libs in check.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 8:07:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tankdriver:
Boy, this was keep quite....

Article is usual news cowboy legal killing stuff....

http://www.wreg.com/Global/story.asp?S=6261208


MEMPHIS, TN -- With a legal handgun carry permit and a clean criminal history, there is no limit to how and where you can kill someone in self-defense in Tennessee, according to a Shelby County judge.

Shelby County Criminal Court Judge Chris Craft says the state's new 'Stand Your Ground' law, which went into effect May 22, not only gives "persons (with gun carry licenses) who are not engaged in criminal activity" limitless power to kill in self-defense, but it also strips criminals of their rights to self-defense, even against other criminals.

"Hopefully, there will be a lot less drug-dealers killing each other...a lot other people who won't be, particularly gangs, that are shooting at each other," Craft says. "They won't be able to claim self-defense because they are breaking the law."

"For the person who does not have a permit and is illegally carrying a gun, there is no more self-defense as I understand this statute," says Marvin Ballin, a Memphis criminal defense attorney.

Under the law, Tennessee citizens who own guns but no carry permit may only use the guns in self-defense when they are inside their homes.

The law allows law-abiding citizens with state handgun carry licenses to use deadly force in their homes, out in public, even in their cars. In fact, the only significant limits the law puts on a law-abiding citizen to defend himself is when the perceived threat is a law-enforcement officer or someone who is carrying or transporting a child.

"It draws the line between permit-holders and non-permit-holders," says Kristen Bauer, a certified shooting instructor at RangeUSA (www.rangeusa.com) in East Memphis, "and helping, you know, divide that difference between good and evil."

The law also says it will "...provide immunity from civil liability for a person who uses lawful force in defense of self, others or property..." In short, a private citizen could not be sued by an attacker or the attacker's family if the attacker is hurt or killed by the citizen's lawful act of self-defense.

"Now we really have a way to protect ourselves and not worry about legal court issues coming up later," says Bauer.

At least one self-defense expert says self-defense legal immunity has been the law in Tennessee for eight years. Tom Givens, owner and firearms trainer at Rangemaster (www.rangemaster.com) in East Memphis, points to the Good Samaritan Act of 1999. The law, amended to state code dating back to 1975, says any "...person who is injured while committing a felony...is barred from recovery of actual or punitive damages..."

"As far as a criminal being able to sue you for injuring him while attacking you, it's already Tennessee state law," says Givens. "He can't do that."

Yes he can, says Mike Roberts. Roberts, an attorney and law professor who was once the handgun instructor for the Shelby County Sheriff's Office, says immunity from civil liability is unconstitutional, and state law cannot guarantee immunity to citizens.

"Immunity statutes are struck down left and right everyday," says Roberts. "The constitutional question is that people have the right of access to the courts. You can't ban me from being sued just because (I lawfully killed someone in self-defense)."


I'm not so sure I like that part. Used to be that if you were packing without a HCP anywhere, and had a "clean shoot", you would be given some legal lattitude.

This point seems like a step backwards to me.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 8:18:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/14/2007 8:19:33 PM EDT by hughjafj]

but it also strips criminals of their rights to self-defense

What the fuck????

What rights do criminals have when they attack innocent civilians?? Fuck their rights!!
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 8:55:10 PM EDT

Under the law, Tennessee citizens who own guns but no carry permit may only use the guns in self-defense when they are inside their homes.


That stinks.

A person's right to self defense is only valid if a person has a permit....ergo, there is no 'right' to self-defense.

I have my permit. Others don't. The language of this article strips the right to self-defense from those who don't have the approval of the state.

Ugh.

Link Posted: 8/14/2007 9:04:46 PM EDT
height=8
Originally Posted By Strider47:
height=8
Originally Posted By rob78:
height=8
Originally Posted By Strider47:
If I'm reading this correctly, a non-permit holder driving through the state has no right to protect themselves? If so, this law kinda sucks.


get a CCP and you're covered in TN.


I understand and I'm cool in that regard. I don't like the slippery slope aspect of it. A person law abiding citizen shouldn't need a piece of paper to be able to protect themselves when traveling through another state. The way I'm reading the new law is that it makes a law abiding civilian a criminal by traveling through the state without a CCW (where it was legal before). Maybe I'm reading it wrong...


That's the way I read it, but it wasn't legal to carry a handgun without a permit. It's just that you would not be prosecuted if you had to use it in self-defense.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 9:05:32 PM EDT
Welcome aboard TN.

Link Posted: 8/14/2007 9:12:49 PM EDT
good for TN, its about time, God Bless them
Link Posted: 8/15/2007 6:16:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By timb3:
Oh jeez. Another person who hates the fact that GOA stands up for freedom.

Actually, CCW laws are unconstitutional. All states should have carry "laws" like Alaska and Vermont... meaning NO permit required to exercise your RIGHTS. The 2nd amendment says "shall not be infringed". What part of that do people not understand?



In a perfect world, what you say would be true. But we don't live in a perfect world nor are we ever likely to. Not only do we have to battle with the thugs of the world, we gun owners also have to battle the PR wars for the soccer moms as well. It is this PR war that the so-called GOA supporters seem to always manage to overlook, for some odd reason................
Link Posted: 8/15/2007 6:17:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
Welcome aboard TN.





Link Posted: 8/15/2007 6:24:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tankdriver:
Boy, this was keep quite....

Article is usual news cowboy legal killing stuff....

http://www.wreg.com/Global/story.asp?S=6261208


MEMPHIS, TN -- With a legal handgun carry permit and a clean criminal history, there is no limit to how and where you can kill someone in self-defense in Tennessee, according to a Shelby County judge.

Shelby County Criminal Court Judge Chris Craft says the state's new 'Stand Your Ground' law, which went into effect May 22, not only gives "persons (with gun carry licenses) who are not engaged in criminal activity" limitless power to kill in self-defense, but it also strips criminals of their rights to self-defense, even against other criminals.

"Hopefully, there will be a lot less drug-dealers killing each other...a lot other people who won't be, particularly gangs, that are shooting at each other," Craft says. "They won't be able to claim self-defense because they are breaking the law."

"For the person who does not have a permit and is illegally carrying a gun, there is no more self-defense as I understand this statute," says Marvin Ballin, a Memphis criminal defense attorney.

Under the law, Tennessee citizens who own guns but no carry permit may only use the guns in self-defense when they are inside their homes.

The law allows law-abiding citizens with state handgun carry licenses to use deadly force in their homes, out in public, even in their cars. In fact, the only significant limits the law puts on a law-abiding citizen to defend himself is when the perceived threat is a law-enforcement officer or someone who is carrying or transporting a child.

"It draws the line between permit-holders and non-permit-holders," says Kristen Bauer, a certified shooting instructor at RangeUSA (www.rangeusa.com) in East Memphis, "and helping, you know, divide that difference between good and evil."

The law also says it will "...provide immunity from civil liability for a person who uses lawful force in defense of self, others or property..." In short, a private citizen could not be sued by an attacker or the attacker's family if the attacker is hurt or killed by the citizen's lawful act of self-defense.

"Now we really have a way to protect ourselves and not worry about legal court issues coming up later," says Bauer.

At least one self-defense expert says self-defense legal immunity has been the law in Tennessee for eight years. Tom Givens, owner and firearms trainer at Rangemaster (www.rangemaster.com) in East Memphis, points to the Good Samaritan Act of 1999. The law, amended to state code dating back to 1975, says any "...person who is injured while committing a felony...is barred from recovery of actual or punitive damages..."

"As far as a criminal being able to sue you for injuring him while attacking you, it's already Tennessee state law," says Givens. "He can't do that."

Yes he can, says Mike Roberts. Roberts, an attorney and law professor who was once the handgun instructor for the Shelby County Sheriff's Office, says immunity from civil liability is unconstitutional, and state law cannot guarantee immunity to citizens.

"Immunity statutes are struck down left and right everyday," says Roberts. "The constitutional question is that people have the right of access to the courts. You can't ban me from being sued just because (I lawfully killed someone in self-defense)."


The above in red bothers me. At first read, you think it refers to those committing criminal acts and involved in a shooting not having a claim of self defense. But look again. It refers to ANYONE carrying a gun w/o a CCW. So if you travel w/ your family, take your gun as we all do, kill someone trying to jack your car, you can't claim self defense.

That is messed up.
Link Posted: 8/15/2007 6:26:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Badass03:
Id say this is on the right track.

Open carry for everyone starting at 18



That would be nice. Only way you can open carry at the moment is if you hold a permit..
Link Posted: 8/15/2007 6:33:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/15/2007 7:01:26 AM EDT by PBIR]

Originally Posted By Badass03:
Id say this is on the right track.

Open carry for everyone all US citizens


I agree.
Link Posted: 8/15/2007 6:34:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/15/2007 6:37:22 AM EDT by shotar]
Link Posted: 8/15/2007 6:57:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/15/2007 6:57:59 AM EDT by FunYun1983]

Originally Posted By dragongoddess:
What needs to be done is a ban on citizens from such states as Calif, Ill (chicago), NY (NY city) and the other anti states like Mass. from entering another state and setting up a residence.



WoW, thanks for shitting on everyone who lives in those states who actualy like firearms.
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