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Posted: 6/12/2009 8:15:01 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/12/2009 8:15:42 PM EST by fruitjacket]
At one time, not too long ago, I was pretty sure that if a Katrina-esque situation were to happen nationwide where guns were to be confiscated door to door I doubted they would do it.
However, since then I have come to one realization.

Yes, there would be some in the Military who would refuse to do so, but overall, they would slaughter you and I if we refused to comply.

My reasoning?

How many times have you heard of cops shooting people?
OK...I realize it doesn't happen every day, and the vast majority of cops won't ever have to pull their sidearms in the line of duty.

BUT....

Those that do, or when forced to do so, will KILL US citizens and I doubt they ever look at it as "I'm going to shoot an American".
Not that I'm saying in any way that they don't regret or have trouble dealing with it...that's not my point.

My point is simply that I have to imagine for LEO's it's 'work'. It is what it is, and they are probably not going through that mindset in their minds.
I realize however that it's a different issue with 2nd amdnt rights, etc, but if LEO's and guardsmen are issued an order to confiscate guns, they will likely comply.
Link Posted: 6/12/2009 8:18:30 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/12/2009 8:19:47 PM EST by ronin_308]
I would imagine most vets would tell you that when they are taking incoming fire they were not thinking about protecting the constitution but protecting their friends. It will be nothing different when the Clown in Chief says that the Right Wing Resistance is the enemy of the USSA.
Link Posted: 6/12/2009 8:19:10 PM EST
Link Posted: 6/12/2009 8:20:38 PM EST
page 1
Link Posted: 6/12/2009 8:21:58 PM EST
Government goons are present.
Link Posted: 6/12/2009 8:23:02 PM EST
"Fruitjacket," eh?
Link Posted: 6/12/2009 8:23:07 PM EST
Yes, much better to lay down our arms and submit.

















Hmmm, no, on second thought, FUCKING SHOOT ME THEN. I'd rather die in a blaze of glory than live like a pussy for eternity.
Link Posted: 6/12/2009 8:30:50 PM EST
I hope I would have the balls to stand up to what I believe in if confiscations ever happen. I do not, on the other hand, want to trade fire when my family is in the same house as me. What if scenario's are shitty. I don't know what I would do until it actually happens.
Link Posted: 6/12/2009 8:33:00 PM EST
Originally Posted By bstonemega:
I hope I would have the balls to stand up to what I believe in if confiscations ever happen. I do not, on the other hand, want to trade fire when my family is in the same house as me. What if scenario's are shitty. I don't know what I would do until it actually happens.





Well Said.
Link Posted: 6/12/2009 8:34:30 PM EST
Resist the Obama Regime's Civilian Defense Forces!
Link Posted: 6/12/2009 8:34:57 PM EST
well consider that few people ever set out to kill or get into a gunfight, it just sorta happens as a result of escalation, i doubt for example that swat teams are eager to kill by default, i'd say they are more hoping the show of force induces surrendur.

but take dynamic entry, especially if its a suprise to the occupants of the targeted structure, all of a sudden there are booms and crashes and yelling and armed men, no time to actually be rational.
the sudden entry causes a fight or flight response, and failure to submit in a blink of an eye induces the same response in entry members.

it just sorta happens, it evolves and escalates.

But dont worry, there will be no monolithic confiscation even if there is a total ban.

just make everyone felons and you end legal gun ownership and/or create new criminals to feed the prison industrial complex

its a simple matter to criminalize opposition in the culture war and stigmatize their ways, then let a few generations run their course.

Link Posted: 6/12/2009 8:35:59 PM EST

Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:
Resist the Obama Regime's Civilian Defense Forces!

Or join and "misplace" their ammo.
Link Posted: 6/12/2009 8:37:23 PM EST









Yes, some LEO's and .mill's will comply with an order to confiscate...but not all of them.





Link Posted: 6/12/2009 8:38:16 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/12/2009 8:45:37 PM EST by ronin_308]
You don't. I sure hope your plans are a little more though tout then that. Have you ever heard of death squads. Do you really think fighting them from your doorstep is the solution. How about hitting them when they go home? You should read Sun Tzu. Just don't cause an incident until the line has really been crossed by the death squads. Trust is needed to preserve our way of life so we must give the benefit of doubt to the government and they must do the same. Otherwise the whole thing crumbles.
Link Posted: 6/12/2009 8:39:43 PM EST
Not gonna happen.
Link Posted: 6/12/2009 8:42:36 PM EST
Originally Posted By SkilletsUSMC:
Not gonna happen.


How about the confiscations during Hurricain Katrina? That happened.
Link Posted: 6/12/2009 8:44:12 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/12/2009 8:46:55 PM EST by Milo5]
Ya know, everybody likes to point out what happened in New Orleans as the catalyst for the new world order.
Most communities aren't anywhere near as goofy as New Orleans and most Police Forces are a sight more professional than New Orleans backed up by National Guardsmen and turning on the law abiding citizens isn't the general order of the day in a catastrophy, that's all I am going to say.
Link Posted: 6/12/2009 8:47:35 PM EST
Originally Posted By Milo5:
Ya know, everybody likes to point out what happened in New Orleans as the catalyst for the new world order.
Most Police Forces are a sight more professional than New Orleans backed up by National Guardsmen and turning on the law abiding citizens isn't the general order of the day in a catastrophy, that's all I am going to say.


Well, it happened. Everything else is a "what if " question.
Link Posted: 6/12/2009 8:50:25 PM EST
Ill post what I did in the other thread

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."


We get this rammed into our heads every day in ROTC and Im sure the men and women at the service academies get just as much. If even 10% of Officers and Warrant Officers refused to obey an unlawful order, the Army would not be able to function.

I cant speak for police officers, but the majority of Army Officers and NCOs will not carry out or give unconstitutional orders.
Link Posted: 6/12/2009 8:50:27 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/12/2009 8:51:39 PM EST by ronin_308]
Originally Posted By Milo5:
Ya know, everybody likes to point out what happened in New Orleans as the catalyst for the new world order.
Most Police Forces are a sight more professional than New Orleans backed up by National Guardsmen and turning on the law abiding citizens isn't the general order of the day in a catastrophy, that's all I am going to say.


I sure hope you are kidding. What if a father was with his kids and didn't feel comfortable without a firearm and being able to protect his kids. I could see a huge problem with some police officer wanting to confiscate his firearm. After all what does the 2nd Amendment mean? You can only own guns until the local dictator says you can't. Is that you Rahm?
Link Posted: 6/12/2009 8:56:28 PM EST
If you're that concerned about confiscations, you should familiarize yourself with basic machining skills and a sound working knowledge of basic chemistry...Know how is impossible to confiscate.
Link Posted: 6/12/2009 8:58:17 PM EST
Originally Posted By Gravity_Tester:
If you're that concerned about confiscations, you should familiarize yourself with basic machining skills and a sound working knowledge of basic chemistry...Know how is impossible to confiscate.


Uh,uh, they will seize your head and encase it in a metal box!
Link Posted: 6/12/2009 9:02:49 PM EST
Originally Posted By Milo5:
Originally Posted By Gravity_Tester:
If you're that concerned about confiscations, you should familiarize yourself with basic machining skills and a sound working knowledge of basic chemistry...Know how is impossible to confiscate.


Uh,uh, they will seize your head and encase it in a metal box!


and tax you for the box
Link Posted: 6/12/2009 9:04:10 PM EST

It is so funny, talking of confiscation as an Iraqi family is allowed to own a full auto AK. We are not free if we are even contemplating such events occurring in our lifetime...

Link Posted: 6/12/2009 9:07:48 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/12/2009 9:38:56 PM EST by Dave_A]

Originally Posted By fruitjacket:
At one time, not too long ago, I was pretty sure that if a Katrina-esque situation were to happen nationwide where guns were to be confiscated door to door I doubted they would do it.
However, since then I have come to one realization.

Yes, there would be some in the Military who would refuse to do so, but overall, they would slaughter you and I if we refused to comply.

My reasoning?

How many times have you heard of cops shooting people?
OK...I realize it doesn't happen every day, and the vast majority of cops won't ever have to pull their sidearms in the line of duty.

BUT....

Those that do, or when forced to do so, will KILL US citizens and I doubt they ever look at it as "I'm going to shoot an American".
Not that I'm saying in any way that they don't regret or have trouble dealing with it...that's not my point.

My point is simply that I have to imagine for LEO's it's 'work'. It is what it is, and they are probably not going through that mindset in their minds.
I realize however that it's a different issue with 2nd amdnt rights, etc, but if LEO's and guardsmen are issued an order to confiscate guns, they will likely comply.

Never. Goiing. To. Happen.

Name one western 1st world nation that has banned or severely restricted guns nationwide AND gone door-to-door rounding them up?

The answer? NONE.

There was no door-to-door serach in the UK.... None in Australia.... And so on...

The fact is, IF there ever is a ban, there will be no confiscation...

Rather, they will offer an amnesty-turn-in, then 'get the rest' as folks who refuse to comply are busted for other crimes (drunk driving with gun in trunk, domestic violence with gun in house, etc)..

Liberals are not confrontational morons... They do not want violent resistance, but rather majority compliance.

The best way to achieve this is to NOT go door to door, but rather to use a 'we can wait forever' approach, and get the non-compliant one at a time...

No provocation, no one fights back, they win...
Link Posted: 6/12/2009 9:09:20 PM EST
This will not end well
Link Posted: 6/12/2009 10:18:40 PM EST
What everyone fails to factor in, what the .gov's 'ace-in-the-hole' is...

When they declare Martial Law... they suspend the Constitution...

If the Constitution is suspended, you have no 2A rights...

So, therefore, the orders that they are given are not Unconstitutional...

THERE WONT BE A CONSTITUTION.

Link Posted: 6/12/2009 10:22:01 PM EST
Originally Posted By USGI_45:


My thoughts exactly.
Link Posted: 6/12/2009 10:22:32 PM EST
Stop the presses!

Link Posted: 6/13/2009 1:18:16 AM EST
This is what is known as "Passive Confiscation".
Originally Posted By Dave_A:

Originally Posted By fruitjacket:
At one time, not too long ago, I was pretty sure that if a Katrina-esque situation were to happen nationwide where guns were to be confiscated door to door I doubted they would do it.
However, since then I have come to one realization.

Yes, there would be some in the Military who would refuse to do so, but overall, they would slaughter you and I if we refused to comply.

My reasoning?

How many times have you heard of cops shooting people?
OK...I realize it doesn't happen every day, and the vast majority of cops won't ever have to pull their sidearms in the line of duty.

BUT....

Those that do, or when forced to do so, will KILL US citizens and I doubt they ever look at it as "I'm going to shoot an American".
Not that I'm saying in any way that they don't regret or have trouble dealing with it...that's not my point.

My point is simply that I have to imagine for LEO's it's 'work'. It is what it is, and they are probably not going through that mindset in their minds.
I realize however that it's a different issue with 2nd amdnt rights, etc, but if LEO's and guardsmen are issued an order to confiscate guns, they will likely comply.

Never. Goiing. To. Happen.

Name one western 1st world nation that has banned or severely restricted guns nationwide AND gone door-to-door rounding them up?

The answer? NONE.

There was no door-to-door serach in the UK.... None in Australia.... And so on...

The fact is, IF there ever is a ban, there will be no confiscation...

Rather, they will offer an amnesty-turn-in, then 'get the rest' as folks who refuse to comply are busted for other crimes (drunk driving with gun in trunk, domestic violence with gun in house, etc)..

Liberals are not confrontational morons... They do not want violent resistance, but rather majority compliance.

The best way to achieve this is to NOT go door to door, but rather to use a 'we can wait forever' approach, and get the non-compliant one at a time...

No provocation, no one fights back, they win...


Link Posted: 6/13/2009 1:27:51 AM EST
Originally Posted By zeke013:
This will not end well


Link Posted: 6/13/2009 1:34:58 AM EST
There is not yet going to be confiscation. Just could not happen.
First, do the libs want confiscation? Yes.
Do they know they could not get it done? Yes.
The plan is not confiscation. It is to marginalize the number of people who own firearms by demonization and ever increasing regulation (notice the use of the word "infringe" in the Constitution––the founders knew the government could never confiscate weapons as long as the citizens had free access to own them).
Once they have the number of firearm owners down to a fringe element, and they have convinced the vast majority that ownership is dangerous, then they can confiscate; and by then, yes the law enforcement community and military will be on board with it.
If we get government healtcare, you can expect that handgun regulations will be coming to reduce healtcare costs by reducing handgun victims. Count on it!
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 1:45:06 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/13/2009 1:47:03 AM EST by tc2k11]
Originally Posted By Milo5:
Ya know, everybody likes to point out what happened in New Orleans as the catalyst for the new world order.
Most communities aren't anywhere near as goofy as New Orleans and most Police Forces are a sight more professional than New Orleans backed up by National Guardsmen and turning on the law abiding citizens isn't the general order of the day in a catastrophy, that's all I am going to say.

So, New Orleans was an "early adopter."

Facts are: police said they were going to round up the guns, police actually rounded up guns, people gave up their guns and didn't get them back until years and layers of rust later.

Oh, right, but it can't happen here, not in my town, not in my state. My town and state are different.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 1:47:55 AM EST
Civil War? Alright!
fap fap fap
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 1:48:18 AM EST
Originally Posted By azmjs:
Stop the presses!


The Maobama swinger is in the house!
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 9:52:03 AM EST

Originally Posted By hifi_samauri:
What everyone fails to factor in, what the .gov's 'ace-in-the-hole' is...

When they declare Martial Law... they suspend the Constitution...

If the Constitution is suspended, you have no 2A rights...

So, therefore, the orders that they are given are not Unconstitutional...

THERE WONT BE A CONSTITUTION.


Actually, martial law is provided for IN the Constitution...

Federal 'martial law' is a suspension of Habeus Corpus, and the deployment of the militia (National Guard) for law enforcement purposes & to supress insurrection.

It's all there, in the Constitution...

That said, 'Martial Law' would require a HUGE catastrophe nationwide... Like nuclear war, or a REAL pandemic (none of this foo-foo-flu bullshit, something like an engineered bio-weapon attack)...

Which is incredibly unlikely....
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 9:53:55 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/13/2009 9:54:50 AM EST by Dave_A]

Originally Posted By tc2k11:
Originally Posted By Milo5:
Ya know, everybody likes to point out what happened in New Orleans as the catalyst for the new world order.
Most communities aren't anywhere near as goofy as New Orleans and most Police Forces are a sight more professional than New Orleans backed up by National Guardsmen and turning on the law abiding citizens isn't the general order of the day in a catastrophy, that's all I am going to say.

So, New Orleans was an "early adopter."

Facts are: police said they were going to round up the guns, police actually rounded up guns, people gave up their guns and didn't get them back until years and layers of rust later.

Oh, right, but it can't happen here, not in my town, not in my state. My town and state are different.

No...

The fact is that the actions of one local police chief, with a nutball mayor in charge, in ONE city...

Does not indicate a FEDERAL plan to round up guns...

Note that in the REST of the areas that Katrina hit (it hit 2 whole STATES, mind you - multiple cities) there was NO gun confiscation...

And in the aftermath, the legal process has worked just fine - NOLA got sued, and the state of LA changed the law to ban future taking of guns....

Also note that as this was the action of a LOCAL government, the anti-federalists should be on board with it...

After all, 'states rights' and all...

(Not being an antifederalist, I am NOT on board with it)

Link Posted: 6/13/2009 9:57:12 AM EST
The president would call in the United Nations Troops to do the confiscation after the first few few massacres.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 9:57:55 AM EST
I am new and still in on page one.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 10:00:45 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/13/2009 10:01:53 AM EST by operatorerror]
Originally Posted By Dave_A:


Federal 'martial law' is a suspension of Habeus Corpus, and the deployment of the militia (National Guard) for law enforcement purposes & to supress insurrection.




huh?


eta The militia is NOT the National Guard. The NG is NOT the militia. We really don't want to go there, do we?
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 10:15:27 AM EST
Originally Posted By fruitjacket:
At one time, not too long ago, I was pretty sure that if a Katrina-esque situation were to happen nationwide where guns were to be confiscated door to door I doubted they would do it.
However, since then I have come to one realization.

Yes, there would be some in the Military who would refuse to do so, but overall, they would slaughter you and I if we refused to comply.

My reasoning?

How many times have you heard of cops shooting people?
OK...I realize it doesn't happen every day, and the vast majority of cops won't ever have to pull their sidearms in the line of duty.

BUT....

Those that do, or when forced to do so, will KILL US citizens and I doubt they ever look at it as "I'm going to shoot an American".
Not that I'm saying in any way that they don't regret or have trouble dealing with it...that's not my point.

My point is simply that I have to imagine for LEO's it's 'work'. It is what it is, and they are probably not going through that mindset in their minds.
I realize however that it's a different issue with 2nd amdnt rights, etc, but if LEO's and guardsmen are issued an order to confiscate guns, they will likely comply.


I think this is the reason I dislike the LEOs thinking of themselves as special and everyone else as 'civilians'

It makes the US vs Them mentality easier.

Taking a step beyond that, ANYONE the police have to deal with are automatically listed in their minds as 'The Perp' and classified as scum, so if/when the police are ordered to confiscate, they will immediately view any gun owner as a criminal scumbag who is probably selling crystal meth and looking at child porn while stroking his guns, which will make them a lot easier to shoot.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 10:34:48 AM EST
that would probably be a subject you would want to take up with your local congressman in person............. tell them how unhappy you are...
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 10:46:01 AM EST
Originally Posted By Pangea:
The president would call in the United Nations Troops to do the confiscation after the first few few massacres.


Link Posted: 6/13/2009 10:50:34 AM EST
How much warning would they give that confiscations were going to start taking place?

No warning? Besides this scenario being totally insane, how could they pull this off without leaks?



I've never understood the mass-confiscation scenario.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 11:05:46 AM EST
Originally Posted By Pangea:
The president would call in the United Nations Troops to do the confiscation after the first few few massacres.


...which would really uncork a whole bottle of fun.

Hey OP, how many days have you spent on Active Duty and how many years have you spent in the company of servicemen and vets?

I'm guessing it's ZERO or you wouldn't be posting stupid questions about them in GD.

FWIW, Dave_A is right: no government in their right mind would order "door-to-door" confiscation.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 11:37:00 AM EST
Ive been in the NG for almost 9 years in an Infantry unit. I can tell you with confidence that there is a large number that would not partake in a confiscation for 2 reasons. First and foremost we have a strong beleif in the second amendment. The other reason is, safety. I would rather go back to the sandbox than to go door to door confiscating Oklahomans guns, because the majority would fight back.

My grandpa is around 80 and a WW2 vet and he would go down in a blaze of glory if you know what i mean. If the public protest the war in Iraq because of soldier deaths then there is no way they would support a confiscation here in the USA, because the casualties would be far more than any war before except for maybe the cival war.

There is not gonna be a confiscation anyway. Its going to continue the way its been for the last 70 years and the man will slowly impose more small gun laws, registrations, ammo import bans, ammo taxes and so on. Only people like us will see it coming. Most people will wake up in about 50 or 60 years and ask, " where did our guns go?". It will be what i call the 100 year confiscation.
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 11:48:22 AM EST
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 3:14:47 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/13/2009 3:20:08 PM EST by Dave_A]

Originally Posted By operatorerror:
Originally Posted By Dave_A:


Federal 'martial law' is a suspension of Habeus Corpus, and the deployment of the militia (National Guard) for law enforcement purposes & to supress insurrection.




huh?


eta The militia is NOT the National Guard. The NG is NOT the militia. We really don't want to go there, do we?

Actually, I do and will

According the the Constitution, the 'militia' is federally funded & equipped, trained to federal standards, and state administered.

It's right there in Article 1 Sec 8.

The National Guard fits the Constitutional definition of MILITIA to a "T'...


Article 1 Section 8, US Constitution:

Congress shall have the power....

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;






To provide for organizing, arming -> Federally funded

disciplining -> Trained to federal standards (See 'discipline' of the armed forces elsewhere in Art1 Sec8)

and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States -> see above 'to provide for calling forth' provision' as to why this would ocurr

reserving to the states respectively, the Appointment of the Officers -> States commission militia officers. This applies to NG officers today

And the authority for training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress -> The UCMJ & US Army FMs are 'the discipline perscribed by Congress'. States are responsible for executing the training of their NG troops, according to these items.




You see, the National Guard IS the modern incarnation of the Constitutional militia...











Link Posted: 6/13/2009 3:19:07 PM EST
Originally Posted By USGI_45:



This, just look at the state Minnesota?
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 3:21:26 PM EST

Originally Posted By Pangea:
The president would call in the United Nations Troops to do the confiscation after the first few few massacres.

Uhh...

The UN doesn't have 'any 'troops' to call in...

The US military *IS* the UN's 'troops' in every major operation they've done...
Link Posted: 6/13/2009 3:24:09 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/13/2009 3:25:28 PM EST by Taffy223]
Gun confiscation ?

Would you like to hear from someone who has been throught it?

Voted for by the masses.

Handguns and semi-auto full bore rifles banned here then confiscated.

We were a minority and withstanding civil unrest and armed conflict we had to hand our guns in.

As we were already "registered" ( guys, registration IS the first step to confiscation remember that )

Every gun needed to be collected was know and where it was....collection was easy as we shooters are normaly law abiding

In my heart I know that most of you guys would comply too...even you chest beaters....you know who you are.

Here the Newspapers drove the new draconian laws IMHO

Now only the criminals have guns...since the ban of pistols and semi-auto rifles gun crime has risen 30%.....



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