Note to mods: I have been given assurances that "religion" is NOT banned from GD. And that there is no anti-God bias at this site. Well, here's a chance for you to put your money where your mouth is.

Note to posters: This really isn't a religion discussion. Its a true life story, and an explanation. I ask your maturity and cooperation in posting here, to allow this thread to stay in GD. I apologize in advance for tis length.

________________________________________________

Mom’s Heart

My mother had a minor (if there is such a thing) heart attack this past Saturday. My dad wasn’t home, so as the tightness, pain and pressure built up in her shoulders and chest, she knew she needed help, and she dialed 9-1-1 herself. As the time ticked by awaiting the arrival of the ambulance, my mom prayed that God would watch over her, and care for her. This is a record of just how He did that, for our entire family.

A heart catheterization revealed some blockage in one artery, but amazingly no damage to the muscle (this would become more significant as facts would later reveal.) The doctors recommended a single stint to correct the blockage, so she was transferred to a hospital specializing in that procedure.

I had been to that hospital before, and had gotten lost, unable to find my vehicle for 45 minutes, eventually contacting security to get me back to the right parking lot. It is a huge facility, and every parking lot at every entrance looks exactly the same. So much so,  I had told my dad to take mental notes of where he parked and what entrance he came in, so he could find his way back to his vehicle.

My wife and I both made plans to be at the hospital for the procedure, and drove separately leaving at different times to be there, as our schedules allowed. I arrived at the hospital following mapquest directions, and pulled into the first entrance I came into and the first parking lot I saw – which was actually the top level of a parking garage. I learned later my wife had followed an entirely different set of directions to get there. I circled around in the good sized lot and finally found a parking place off in a remote corner, about as far from the hospital as that lot would allow. I got out of my truck, fully conscious the logistics of finding my dad, mom’s room, and my wife in this mammoth facility was just beginning. I looked up, and there was my wife – in the same area of the same lot at the same time I was. Thankful for this helpful “coincidence” we headed toward the hospital.

Naturally, we went to the right floor of the wrong building, and got re-directed to the correct location by hospital staff. (Having been here before, I knew that hospital staff usually knew nothing of the facility other than their duty station on their floor of their building.) As we quickly headed to the right place, hoping to see mom before she went in for her procedure, we got a somewhat agitated phone call from my father, that we should hurry as they were getting ready to take mom to the OR. We scurried along, but just missed her. Somewhat saddened, we went to the waiting room to begin the two hour wait.

Right about on schedule, a hospital worker came and asked for “Kozak.” “Mrs. Kozak is ready” was the word. We thought that meant the procedure was done – they meant they were getting ready to begin. Initially annoyed at the delay, we then realized what God had done was given us the opportunity we wanted – to see mom BEFORE she went in for her procedure.

Once again, we began the two hour wait. Having read all available reading material at least twice, we headed down to the cafeteria, to abuse ourselves with some hospital food. As my dad and I sat down at the table, my wife comes walking up with a young man whom I had never seen before, chatting and laughing with him. A bit odd, I thought. Turns out, the young man was a heath care aid who worked at the hospital – in my mom’s room. His last name? Kozak. Yup. Kozak. We formed an instant friendship, comparing family trees. We weren’t sure there was any relation or not, we traded family stories and rejoiced in God’s goodness.

Later that evening, mom came out of her procedure, and her doctor walked into the lions den – getting grilled with questions from all three of us. Turns out, she had not one, but four stints placed, to recover some 80 centimeters of two 75-90% blockages. Now it became obvious how amazing it was that she had no muscle damage from the attack. And how amazing God’s creation to be able to survive a 75-90% non-functional heart.

Some people ask me “How can you believe in God, who you cannot see, and have no proof He even exists?” I tell you – with no shred of uncertainty – I can and do experience His reality first hand. I am reminded of a Scripture verse “Cast all your worries on Him, knowing that He cares for you.” In the space of five hours, God had shown His care multiple times over. “Coincidence” some might say. Maybe. Maybe we all believe what we are predisposed to believe. Personally, God appearing to me from heaven itself would not be more convincing that what He did for my family yesterday, and the tender comfort He gave us   – which is in addition to His salvation in Christ Jesus.

This doesn’t “prove” the existence of God. It could even be dismissed as coincidence, luck, or kharma. I suppose all it really does is explain to others why our family takes confidence in God.

Wow impressive story!!

As I have posted in another Thread, my grandfather was diagnsoed a couple of months ago with Renal Cancer in an advanced stadium and has Metastases in 3 Different Organs.
So I prayed, and at the end of the prayer some Inner voice told me not to worry because everything will be fine. Believe it or not, I know exactly what I heard. Anyway, following my prayer I went to visit him in the hospital...
During the next weeks he became weaker and weaker, we had lost all hope, yet even though he was dying before my eyes I had a GREAT feeling inside of me, no anger/pain/sadness nothing at all.

The "interesting" thing is; a few days after we had wished him farewell, he started getting better and better, his metastases shrinked, and he walks around and writes e mails on his laptop. He will make it and will probably have beaten cancer soon (the war hasn't been won yet but the major battles have beenhanks
Sounds Incredible but it's the truth.
There definitly is a high power.

Bumpage, for second shift.

Final bumpage for third shift.

We prayed when my dad had a heart attack.

All it got us is 8 days of watching him on his back with his chest open as they cut off his legs and mutilated his body. Then we unplugged him.


thanks god.

Garandman- all I can say is, God Bless you and your's; I believe in the power of prayer.  I also believe that all things happen for a purpose, sort of Divine intervention.

I'll say a prayer for your Mom's speedy recovery!  Keep the faith...

Sorry about your dad.

We'll bury my mom one day too.

But not this day.

God has the funniest ways of reminding me He's lookin out for me.

Sometimes its in a good way, sometimes in a bad. But at the end of the day it always works out.

There is no such thing as a "Coincidence" in a Christian's life.

God is in control.  He is never surprised.

And He loves us and knows what is best for us.

I thank Him for answering your (maybe unspoken) prayers.

God is good.  I praise His Holy Name.

Quoted: We prayed when my dad had a heart attack. All it got us is 8 days of watching him on his back with his chest open as they cut off his legs and mutilated his body. Then we unplugged him. thanks god.

Sorry bro.

People will believe what they wish.  From my recent medical problems I know that there is a God.  Prayers came from all over for me.  My prayers for your Mom!  There is an enzyme test which is taken every 8 hours when a heart attack is suspected.  If it comes out clean after 24 hours then no heart attack.  Your Mom is a very lucky woman.

My Dad had 5 with 90+% blockage.  He had bypass surgery and no muscle damage was found.

If your mom changes her lifestyle she can greatly affect the disease and avoid surgery. Trust me, she does not want to have to do a bypass.

Thanks for sharing. Glad she's gonna be okay.

Quoted: My Dad had 5 with 90+% blockage.  He had bypass surgery and no muscle damage was found. If your mom changes her lifestyle she can greatly affect the disease and avoid surgery. Trust me, she does not want to have to do a bypass.

My dad had bypass that turned into open heart.

And you are SOOO right.

Thanks for sharing that story,Glad your mother did so well.
People might pass all that off to luck or coincidence.
But  not to a believer in Christ.

Quoted: We prayed when my dad had a heart attack. All it got us is 8 days of watching him on his back with his chest open as they cut off his legs and mutilated his body. Then we unplugged him. thanks god.

Yes and for every inspiring story about the miracle of prayer there are 10,000 like yours Red.

Reminds me of something I read once.  God answers all prayers but, 99.99% of the time the answer is no.

If humanity indeed the Universe was so intelligently designed one has to wonder why the designer included things like heart attacks, pain, birth defects, retardation, cancer, leukemia, eplilepsy, senility, diabeties, sudden infant death syndrome,.....................................

Garandman's story while heart warming an inspiring eventually amounts to nothing more than anecdotal evidence.  It's the same sort of thing when primitive man observed a falling star then the next morning he awoke to discover his wife had died.  Then he surmises, yay he believes for the rest of his life that falling stars must be evil omens fortelling a death in the family.

Quoted: Wow impressive story!! As I have posted in another Thread, my grandfather was diagnsoed a couple of months ago with Renal Cancer in an advanced stadium and has Metastases in 3 Different Organs. So I prayed, and at the end of the prayer some Inner voice told me not to worry because everything will be fine. Believe it or not, I know exactly what I heard. Anyway, following my prayer I went to visit him in the hospital... During the next weeks he became weaker and weaker, we had lost all hope, yet even though he was dying before my eyes I had a GREAT feeling inside of me, no anger/pain/sadness nothing at all. The "interesting" thing is; a few days after we had wished him farewell, he started getting better and better, his metastases shrinked, and he walks around and writes e mails on his laptop. He will make it and will probably have beaten cancer soon (the war hasn't been won yet but the major battles have been) thanks to an experimental Drug and help from above, at more than 70 years of age. Sounds Incredible but it's the truth. There definitly is a high power.

So how do you explain the millions of people praying for the pope's recovery and him kicking the bucket anyway?

How do you explain that no matter how hard you pray every one you know will someday die?  You can't pray them into immortality.


I know... I know...  god has a plan.  Okay.

Quoted: Garandman's story while heart warming an inspiring eventually amounts to nothing more than anecdotal evidence.  It's the same sort of thing when primitive man observed a falling star then the next morning he awoke to discover his wife had died.  Then he surmises, yay he believes for the rest of his life that falling stars must be evil omens fortelling a death in the family.

As I said, it doesn't prove anything.

But I could give you ten more stories, just like it, out of my own experience.

When my personal experience jives with a book of record in a matter which is not able to be subjected to scientific analysis, all I have to go on is faith, which is given me by God anyway.

Quoted: So how do you explain the millions of people praying for the pope's recovery and him kicking the bucket anyway? ]

If everybody who ever lived lived forever because somebody prayed for them, the world would be a crowded place.

Guns would be REALLY expensive (Supply and demand) and the line to get a Starbucks coffee would be intolerable.  

Sounds like it was the work of Aten to me. Or maybe Vishnu.

Quoted: Sounds like it was the work of Aten to me. Or maybe Vishnu.

Mom didn't pray to either of them.  

Curious ....do you use their names in your curse phrases....like Aten dammit, or something like that???

Or "for Vishnu's sake!!!!"  ?


Always wondered about that.

Quoted: Mom didn't pray to either of them.

Aten and Vishnu love her anyway. Send them some money.

Quoted: Quoted: Mom didn't pray to either of them.   Aten and Vishnu love her anyway. Send them some money.

Do they take plastic???

Quoted: Quoted: Mom didn't pray to either of them.   Aten and Vishnu love her anyway. Send them some money.

besides, I thought Aten was a US military fighter jet.

People are worshipping planes these days??

Quoted: Quoted: We prayed when my dad had a heart attack. All it got us is 8 days of watching him on his back with his chest open as they cut off his legs and mutilated his body. Then we unplugged him. thanks god. Yes and for every inspiring story about the miracle of prayer there are 10,000 like yours Red. Reminds me of something I read once.  God answers all prayers but, 99.99% of the time the answer is no. If humanity indeed the Universe was so intelligently designed one has to wonder why the designer included things like heart attacks, pain, birth defects, retardation, cancer, leukemia, eplilepsy, senility, diabeties, sudden infant death syndrome,..................................... Garandman's story while heart warming an inspiring eventually amounts to nothing more than anecdotal evidence.  It's the same sort of thing when primitive man observed a falling star then the next morning he awoke to discover his wife had died.  Then he surmises, yay he believes for the rest of his life that falling stars must be evil omens fortelling a death in the family.

God answers all prayer 100% of the time. The answers are Yes, No and Wait (not yet).

For every tragic story like Red's I hear 10,000 like Garandman's.

I am glad to hear she is OK and I will add her to my prayer list.

A friend of mine had a Heart Attack Saturday morning and he is supposed to get out tomorrow. They did a stint and got the clot out and he is doing better today.

BigDozer66

Quoted: Quoted: Garandman's story while heart warming an inspiring eventually amounts to nothing more than anecdotal evidence.  It's the same sort of thing when primitive man observed a falling star then the next morning he awoke to discover his wife had died.  Then he surmises, yay he believes for the rest of his life that falling stars must be evil omens fortelling a death in the family. As I said, it doesn't prove anything. But I could give you ten more stories, just like it, out of my own experience. When my personal experience jives with a book of record in a matter which is not able to be subjected to scientific analysis, all I have to go on is faith, which is given me by God anyway.

Ten more eh, do any of them have anything to do with growing hair on a bald spot or loosing weight over night after starting a diet.  I am sure you could make a bundle doing commercials.  BTW, how many stories can you tell us about when your prayers were not answered according to your expectations?

Funny I don't recall having read anything in your book of record about open heart surgery.  Your book of record is and has been subject to scientific analysis even when the practice was punishable by death.

When I was very young I used to believe that when one of my teeth fell out if I put it under my pillow a fairy would come to my home and collect the tooth and leave me a .50 cent piece.  I also believe that there was a rabbit that layed eggs and an old man in a red suite with flying sled pulled by magic raindeer who would bring me presents once a year if I was good regardless of whether we had a fireplace or not.  I also believed the entire Universe was created in six days.

As I grew and became more educated I put away those childish things.

Quoted: Ten more eh, do any of them have anything to do with growing hair on a bald spot or loosing weight over night after starting a diet.  I am sure you could make a bundle doing commercials.  BTW, how many stories can you tell about us about when your prayers were not answered according to your expectations?

Nothing commercially marketable.

Its not a matter of expectations. Its a amtter of what I deserve, vs. what I get.

Funny I don't recall having read anything in your book of record about open heart surgery.

How about raised from thedead? Will that cover it for ya??

When I was very young I used to believe that when one of my teeth fell out if I put it under my pillow a fairy would come to my home and collect the tooth and leave me a .50 cent piece.  I also believe that there was a rabbit that layed eggs and an old man in a red suite with flying sled pulled by magic raindeer who would bring me presents once a year if I was good regardless of whether we had a fireplace or not.  I also believed the entire Universe was created in six days. As I grew and became more educated I put away those childish things.

This is the type of stuff i was referring to when I asked for maturity and cooperation. You are O for 2.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Mom didn't pray to either of them.   Aten and Vishnu love her anyway. Send them some money. besides, I thought Aten was a US military fighter jet. People are worshipping planes these days??

What a humorous display of your ignorance.  A-10 = Aten.

Quoted: How about raised from the dead? Will that cover it for ya??

According to anecdotal testimony in a widely disputed book written over 2000 year ago?  I think not.

God didn't save that poor woman.  Science did.  Hard science.  Medical Technology and advancement.

You do a disservice to the skill and study of everybody that contributed to saving her life by attributing it to anything else.

The definition of "faith" is "belief without evidence".



Glad your mom's okay, no matter who is healing her.

Quoted: God didn't save that poor woman.  Science did.  Hard science.  Medical Technology and advancement. You do a disservice to the skill and study of everybody that contributed to saving her life by attributing it to anything else.

I'll give the doctors their due.

But they DID NOT have ANY hand in the fact that there was no muscle damage to the heart.

Or the "coincidence" of being able to find my wife immediately.

Or the "coincidence" of the timing of being able to see my mom BEFORE the procedure.

Or the "coincidence" of finding another Kozak taking care of my mom.

All of which were comforting side benefits I attribute to supernatural causes.

I'll give the docs their due. Will you Others their due?

Quoted: I'll give the doctors their due. But they DID NOT have ANY hand in the fact that there was no muscle damage to the heart. Or the "coincidence" of being able to find my wife immediately. Or the "coincidence" of the timing of being able to see my mom BEFORE the procedure. Or the "coincidence" of finding another Kozak taking care of my mom. All of which were comforting side benefits I attribute to supernatural causes. I'll give the docs their due. Will you Others their due?

Unexplained natural phenomenon + coincidences = supernatural causes + gods.

The history of religion in a nutshell.

There are times that the doctors don't even know why some people are alive.

How do I know?

My aunt has been hospitalized with congestive heart failure regularly for the last 5 years. She finally HAD to go under the knife a couple of months ago or else she would have died. She was what they called a VERY high risk for that surgery.

Good news: She not only survived, but she's doing very well now. She was touch and go for a long time after the surgery but even the doctors that were there and know what went on call her a Miracle Woman.

Hmmm, who do we know that works miracles that even the most highly educated among us can't explain?

I pray for her every day. I prayed for God to guide the surgeons' hands as they worked on her. I pray for her strength to improve. God has answered those prayers.

My aunt is a perfect corollary (anyone who quotes this and writes "Coronary" there gets e-punched by me  ) to Garandman's story.

Thanks for sharing Garandman. God be with you and your mom in her recovery.  

Quoted: Unexplained natural phenomenon + possible coincidences = (a legitimate basis to consider the possibiltiy of) supernatural causes + gods. The history of religioous apologetics  in a nutshell.

Fixed it fer ya.

Like I said, this story of mine PROVES nothing, but it does give cause to think.

Quoted: So how do you explain the millions of people praying for the pope's recovery and him kicking the bucket anyway? How do you explain that no matter how hard you pray every one you know will someday die?  You can't pray them into immortality. I know... I know...  god has a plan.  Okay. www.9news.com/9slideshows/Mourning%20Pope%20John%20Paul%20II/People-pray-for-Pope-John-Paul-II.jpg

The Bible is very clear that there is such a thing as a sickness unto death.

My grandfather, for instance, was miraculously healed during a kidney problem, but years later died after a massive heart attack.

It is appointed unto men once to die and then the judgement. All of us will die. When we die is something God is willing to alter.

Besides, during the final judgement of all men you will get to see John Paul alive and kicking.

Quoted: Quoted: Wow impressive story!! As I have posted in another Thread, my grandfather was diagnsoed a couple of months ago with Renal Cancer in an advanced stadium and has Metastases in 3 Different Organs. So I prayed, and at the end of the prayer some Inner voice told me not to worry because everything will be fine. Believe it or not, I know exactly what I heard. Anyway, following my prayer I went to visit him in the hospital... During the next weeks he became weaker and weaker, we had lost all hope, yet even though he was dying before my eyes I had a GREAT feeling inside of me, no anger/pain/sadness nothing at all. The "interesting" thing is; a few days after we had wished him farewell, he started getting better and better, his metastases shrinked, and he walks around and writes e mails on his laptop. He will make it and will probably have beaten cancer soon (the war hasn't been won yet but the major battles have been) thanks to an experimental Drug and help from above, at more than 70 years of age. Sounds Incredible but it's the truth. There definitly is a high power. So how do you explain the millions of people praying for the pope's recovery and him kicking the bucket anyway? How do you explain that no matter how hard you pray every one you know will someday die?  You can't pray them into immortality. I know... I know...  god has a plan.  Okay. www.9news.com/9slideshows/Mourning%20Pope%20John%20Paul%20II/People-pray-for-Pope-John-Paul-II.jpg

Because the Pope was old. Old people die. We miss them but sometimes as a Christian - if the person has lived a good long life - I find myself comforted when I remind myself that while we miss them to pieces, they're in a better place. They will not feel the pain of being mortal.

Quoted: We prayed when my dad had a heart attack. All it got us is 8 days of watching him on his back with his chest open as they cut off his legs and mutilated his body. Then we unplugged him. thanks god.

Please accept my sincerest condolences.

Quoted: Note to mods: I have been given assurances that "religion" is NOT banned from GD. And that there is no anti-God bias at this site. Well, here's a chance for you to put your money where your mouth is. Note to posters: This really isn't a religion discussion. Its a true life story, and an explanation. I ask your maturity and cooperation in posting here, to allow this thread to stay in GD. I apologize in advance for tis length. ________________________________________________ Mom’s Heart My mother had a minor (if there is such a thing) heart attack this past Saturday. My dad wasn’t home, so as the tightness, pain and pressure built up in her shoulders and chest, she knew she needed help, and she dialed 9-1-1 herself. As the time ticked by awaiting the arrival of the ambulance, my mom prayed that God would watch over her, and care for her. This is a record of just how He did that, for our entire family. A heart catheterization revealed some blockage in one artery, but amazingly no damage to the muscle (this would become more significant as facts would later reveal.) The doctors recommended a single stint to correct the blockage, so she was transferred to a hospital specializing in that procedure. I had been to that hospital before, and had gotten lost, unable to find my vehicle for 45 minutes, eventually contacting security to get me back to the right parking lot. It is a huge facility, and every parking lot at every entrance looks exactly the same. So much so,  I had told my dad to take mental notes of where he parked and what entrance he came in, so he could find his way back to his vehicle. My wife and I both made plans to be at the hospital for the procedure, and drove separately leaving at different times to be there, as our schedules allowed. I arrived at the hospital following mapquest directions, and pulled into the first entrance I came into and the first parking lot I saw – which was actually the top level of a parking garage. I learned later my wife had followed an entirely different set of directions to get there. I circled around in the good sized lot and finally found a parking place off in a remote corner, about as far from the hospital as that lot would allow. I got out of my truck, fully conscious the logistics of finding my dad, mom’s room, and my wife in this mammoth facility was just beginning. I looked up, and there was my wife – in the same area of the same lot at the same time I was. Thankful for this helpful “coincidence” we headed toward the hospital. Naturally, we went to the right floor of the wrong building, and got re-directed to the correct location by hospital staff. (Having been here before, I knew that hospital staff usually knew nothing of the facility other than their duty station on their floor of their building.) As we quickly headed to the right place, hoping to see mom before she went in for her procedure, we got a somewhat agitated phone call from my father, that we should hurry as they were getting ready to take mom to the OR. We scurried along, but just missed her. Somewhat saddened, we went to the waiting room to begin the two hour wait. Right about on schedule, a hospital worker came and asked for “Kozak.” “Mrs. Kozak is ready” was the word. We thought that meant the procedure was done – they meant they were getting ready to begin. Initially annoyed at the delay, we then realized what God had done was given us the opportunity we wanted – to see mom BEFORE she went in for her procedure. Once again, we began the two hour wait. Having read all available reading material at least twice, we headed down to the cafeteria, to abuse ourselves with some hospital food. As my dad and I sat down at the table, my wife comes walking up with a young man whom I had never seen before, chatting and laughing with him. A bit odd, I thought. Turns out, the young man was a heath care aid who worked at the hospital – in my mom’s room. His last name? Kozak. Yup. Kozak. We formed an instant friendship, comparing family trees. We weren’t sure there was any relation or not, we traded family stories and rejoiced in God’s goodness. Later that evening, mom came out of her procedure, and her doctor walked into the lions den – getting grilled with questions from all three of us. Turns out, she had not one, but four stints placed, to recover some 80 centimeters of two 75-90% blockages. Now it became obvious how amazing it was that she had no muscle damage from the attack. And how amazing God’s creation to be able to survive a 75-90% non-functional heart. Some people ask me “How can you believe in God, who you cannot see, and have no proof He even exists?” I tell you – with no shred of uncertainty – I can and do experience His reality first hand. I am reminded of a Scripture verse “Cast all your worries on Him, knowing that He cares for you.” In the space of five hours, God had shown His care multiple times over. “Coincidence” some might say. Maybe. Maybe we all believe what we are predisposed to believe. Personally, God appearing to me from heaven itself would not be more convincing that what He did for my family yesterday, and the tender comfort He gave us   – which is in addition to His salvation in Christ Jesus. This doesn’t “prove” the existence of God. It could even be dismissed as coincidence, luck, or kharma. I suppose all it really does is explain to others why our family takes confidence in God.

Awesome, man! And I'm glad your mom is ok. That is a real miracle right there. I have no doubt that God not only exists but is THE force in which our lives reside. Everyday I thank him for taking care of us and protecting us. Giving his only son to die for our sins and for being generous and loving us. I don't care what other people think or say, I love him and he loves each and every one of us. Again, thank you God for taking care of his Mom!

Quoted: If humanity indeed the Universe was so intelligently designed one has to wonder why the designer included things like heart attacks, pain, birth defects, retardation, cancer, leukemia, eplilepsy, senility, diabeties, sudden infant death syndrome, ..............

It was designed not to be Heaven. That explains all the problems.

Quoted: As I grew and became more educated I put away those childish things.

There's nothing more childish than thinking something can come out of nothing, a la Big Bang Theory.

Glad to hear your mom is doing better, G-man.

Quoted: Glad to hear your mom is doing better, G-man.

Thanx man. She's one tough mother.  

Like another mother I know.  

Quoted: There's nothing more childish than thinking something can come out of nothing, a la Big Bang Theory Magic Invisible Guy.

Fixed it for ya

Sorry G-man. The religion forum would be a better place for this discussion, except that it would be locked there. At any rate, we're all glad your mom is still kicking.

Quoted: At any rate, we're all glad your mom is still kicking.

Thanx.

The phrase "I'll see it when I believe it" comes to mind.  

I also wonder how many Jewish or Hindu doctors she had?  If so, their gods must have been working overtime too!  






Seriously, I'm glad she did well... it's a hard place to be, on either side.

Quoted: Seriously, I'm glad she did well... it's a hard place to be, on either side.

Thanx.

Quoted: Quoted: There's nothing more childish than thinking something can come out of nothing, a la Big Bang Theory Magic Invisible Guy. Fixed it for ya he

It is a fact that the universe was "created" out of nothing.
It is a fact that the universe in infinite.

How can anything be created out of nothing? Its impossible according to Logic, common sense, science etc, yet that's how our Universe was "created". Same goes for the Universes Infinity...

I agree with you that Faith is somewhat illogic...but isn't the very existence of the universe totally illogic? Why shouldn't there be some high power, maybe even as a result/element of the Universe as we know it?
Granted I don't know wether there is one single God or a multitude of Gods and what they look like etc but I find it pretty improbable to think that we're all alone, that we aren't subjected to a high power.

@Grandman: Best wishes for your mom

Quoted: It is a fact that the universe was "created" out of nothing. It is a fact that the universe in infinite. How can anything be created out of nothing? Its impossible according to Logic, common sense, science etc, yet that's how our Universe was "created". Same goes for the Universes Infinity... I agree with you that Faith is somewhat illogic...but isn't the very existence of the universe totally illogic? Why shouldn't there be some high power, maybe even as a result/element of the Universe as we know it? Granted I don't know wether there is one single God or a multitude of Gods and what they look like etc but I find it pretty improbable to think that we're all alone, that we aren't subjected to a high power.

If only we could find a suitable forum to discuss this in

Many non-coincidental things happened while my dad was dying of cancer. I was angry at God for not healing the best person I'll ever know in this lifetime, but I look back now and see the hand of God in some of the things that happened.

Right after my dad died, the phone rang. Two women from my mom's church. They didn't know that he had just died. We didn't notify them that he had begun showing signs of the end that morning (getting cold, legs turning blue, etc.). They just called and said, "Henry is home. The angels have taken him to God."

We had a hard time taking care of him at home, and we couldn't get him into the nice hospice facility because of the long waiting list. But somehow, someway, we got bumped. The board voted to put my dad before ohter people on the list. My mom was able to move in with him. I lived in a college dorm and commuted back and forth to see him.

Thanks for the inspiring story.

Quoted: If only we could find a suitable forum to discuss this in

"A" suitable forum? There's two available to you.  

DIfferent flavors, but both suitable.