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Posted: 10/1/2005 2:42:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/3/2005 10:05:11 AM EDT by thebeekeeper1]
I'm so mad that I could spit...

About a year ago I got a debt consolidation loan from my bank and paid off my various credit cards. My wife and I have been very disciplined and haven't charged anything (and are aggressivly making payments on the debt consolidation loan). We did, however, keep our accounts open (with a $0.00 balance) so that our credit report would reflect several credit card accounts open and in good standing.

I got a letter in the mail today from Providian stating that I had a $89 annual fee. I have never paid an annual fee in my life for a credit card and refuse to start now. As I called up Providian to get them to waive the annual fee I looked over the statement and saw that they raised my APR from 7.9% to 28.49%!!!

WHAT THE FUCK!!! The account has been sitting there empty so it's not like we had late fees or went over the credit limit or something. When I called Providian the smug asshole on the phone told me "well, we're not making any money off you if there's no balance" when I asked why my APR got raised. Oh, and "nobody here has the authority to lower your APR over the phone." I cancelled my account right there, but I'm still beyond irate about it 45 minutes later.

Credit card companies are nothing but lying theives that have the law on their side.



<We don't have any form of the F-word in thread titles. --tbk1>
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 2:44:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tReznr:
Credit card companies are nothing but lying theives that have the law on their side.



And I'd like to add 'bottom sucking scum' to your description.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 2:45:55 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 2:46:39 PM EDT
I'm struggling to see the problem.

They raised the rate, which they can do.

You called to complain, they refused to do anything, so you cancelled.

They got screwed in the end (they won't make their 2% fee off of your purchases anymore), you didn't have anything happen other than you had to make a free phone call.

Personally I think you did well and a <Nelson> Ha-Ha </Nelson> has been given to the credit card company. In the end all they did was screw themselves.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 2:49:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/1/2005 2:54:20 PM EDT by Essayons]

Originally Posted By shotar:
That is why there is more than one company. Best thing to do is close the account at once if you have zero balance. The other choice of course is to call their competitors and ask what they can do for you.



+1

They ARE making money off you. Every purchase you make (if/when you start using the card again) will earn them a percentage of the purchase price they would not get if you paid cash. It's a win-win and they should treat it as such.

We use an MBNA reward card sponsored by the Motley Fool for everything. There's no annual fee and 1% cash back on all our purchases (and it's not limited to $300 like a lot of cash back cards). IIRC the rate's OK, too, but I don;t care because we always pay it off before the grace period expires and never carry a balance. As a result, we never have a finance charge.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 2:49:53 PM EDT
Providian and Capitol One are both companies that seek out the "riskier" customer.

They've figured out they can charge annual fees and outrageous interest rates on people who cannot pay or transfer their balances elsewhere.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 2:50:37 PM EDT
Fascinating. The credit card company I deal with has not made any money on me in the 5 years I have had the account. In fact, they have paid me thousands of dollars in rewards. They have not cut me off or raised my rates.

Link Posted: 10/1/2005 2:50:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Forest:
I'm struggling to see the problem.



The problem is I can't call up Providan and say, "well, even though I signed a legally binding contract to borrow money from you at a 7.9% interest rate, I've decided that I'm only willing to pay 1.9% APR. Oh, and since I've had the account for awhile I want you to pay me an annual fee."

It's bullshit that the credit card companies can change their terms of contract at will with no notice but the little guy has no recourse but to pony up the cash.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 2:52:13 PM EDT
Two can play at this game. Stop making payments. What can they do?
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 2:53:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By raven:
Two can play at this game. Stop making payments. What can they do?



Uh... ruin your credit making it difficult if not impossible to buy a car or house down the line.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 2:53:17 PM EDT
CC companies consider me a deadbeat because I use their cards, but never carry a balance.

Screw 'em. They make plenty from companies that accept their cards.

Eddie
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 2:54:00 PM EDT
Proverbs 22:7
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 2:55:27 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 2:55:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FMJ3:
Proverbs 22:7



You aint jokin' brother!
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 2:57:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/1/2005 2:57:38 PM EDT by raven]

Originally Posted By tReznr:

Originally Posted By raven:
Two can play at this game. Stop making payments. What can they do?



Uh... ruin your credit making it difficult if not impossible to buy a car or house down the line.



"owning" a house is an illusion and only chumps buy cars new. They depriciate the minute they leave the lot. So what are you losing by screwing banks who deliberately try to screw you?
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 3:01:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tReznr:

Originally Posted By FMJ3:
Proverbs 22:7



You aint jokin' brother!



Amen! And for the guys that never carry a balance, you spend more when you don't use cash, so you still lose. Overspending is overspending whether you pay interest on it or not.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 3:02:52 PM EDT
I like my Providian card, they gave me the best interest rate and highest limit out of all the others I've had (AmEx, Discover, couple Visa/MC's). They also give me my credit rating monthly for free and cash back.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 3:02:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By raven:
Two can play at this game. Stop making payments. What can they do?



Good lord I hope you're joking.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 3:11:21 PM EDT
+1 on what Roboman said. Wow.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 3:13:02 PM EDT
More and more of this type of behavior will happen now that we have the new bankruptcy "reform" law...

Next year I imagine they will raise rates across board and also raise minimum monthly payments since they think a lot of ppl. will be scared away from the bankruptcy option. Not so if you make under your state's median income, and if you don't, make less to stay out of a repayment option. The CC Industry said they needed bankruptcy "reform" so they could lower rates. BULL SHIT! Rates will go up next year, and the CC Industry will be right behind the oil companies in profits.

The stupid thing is this administration expects the lower middle class and the middle class to live with a budget (with health care and college costs rising around 10% a year) and Bush is spending money like it is going out of style. I'm just wondering when corporate bankruptcy will be "reformed"...
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 3:14:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Guz:
+1 on what Roboman said. Wow.



What if we quit paying the Chinese that own most of our debt? Would that be ok to you?
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 3:15:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By raven:

"owning" a house is an illusion



Sadly, you are right. We'll see if Judge Souter owns his house, or if he only leases it like the rest of us peons, er, I mean taxpayers...
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 3:16:54 PM EDT
I can't wait until my Providian card is paid off. I'm going to snip it up into little pieces and hork a big loogie on it.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 3:17:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SP1Grrl:
Ooooh, don't even get me started on those assholes over at Providian.

If the entire company burned to the ground with everyone in it, I wouldn't feel a lick of remorse. All of them are straight from hell.



It sounds as if you feel about Providian the same way I feel about Bank of America...
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 3:24:53 PM EDT
Certain credit card companies are like boogers that won't flick off your finger no matter how hard you try.

I paid off and cancelled a card I had with a company for over 10 years.
First they held the two pay-off checks because they were "not within keeping of my previous payment history".
The held both checks long enough for the card company to charge me interest AGAIN on what I owed.
When I finally paid it off I thought I was through.

Not so quick Sparky...

The credit card company has "sold" my now zero balance account (with a $20K limit) to one of their subsidiaries who sent me a nice letter telling me that I will have to pay a $25 dollar a month "service fee" in order to keep the account open.

Of course I cancelled that account right then and there.

WTF....
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 3:33:10 PM EDT
Unless its a house or a car you should avoid credit cards, I can always buy things cash and not pay 3 points which is what most CC companies charge merchants, there is never a discount when you use a card but wave cash and you will see the price come down....
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 3:41:44 PM EDT
Providian is one of the most dickheaded CC companies around. They will fuck you hard, so don't be surprised if they do. Best advise is to cancel any CC you don't need and avoid using them at all cost.

Reminds me of a Robinson's May card I had. I paid the card on time and never ever had an issue with them. Another card with a high limit (regular Visa) fucked up my account and said I didn't pay one month. It literally took months to get the shit straight with them and they put a bad mark on my credit for it, which I never could get off. I dumped them at first light. Then one day I go to use my Robinson's card and it wouldn't work. WTF? So I call them and they tell me they lowered my 2000 dollar limit to 100 dollars!!! Apperently they checked my credit on their own time and saw the issue I had with the other bank, so they thought I was now a risk. I cancelled their shit fast and never shop there.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 3:43:02 PM EDT
Wait till "TheCynic" comes here and tells you it's your fault.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 3:44:27 PM EDT
There is an easy solution - never carry a credit card balance... They all will nail you with ridiculous interest rates if you don't make the full payment.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 3:52:45 PM EDT
How does one find a Debt Consolidation loan? Where would I start?
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 3:56:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Boom_Stick:
Wait till "TheCynic" comes here and tells you it's your fault.



Thanks for calling me out,

...and there is no "fault" on any side. The CC company has
the right to raise rates according to the contract you signed
and tReznr has the right to tell them to stuff it (which he did).

I've have the same two CCs for the last 5 years. Both are
somewhere around 9% but I've never paid them a dime. If
you don't carry a balance and don't have a card with an
annual rate, the CC companies cannot screw you.

Caveat Emptor.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 4:03:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/1/2005 4:08:28 PM EDT by tReznr]

Originally Posted By Handsome_Rob:
How does one find a Debt Consolidation loan? Where would I start?



Contact your bank. I happen to bank with Navy Federal Credit Union and was able to get a debt consolidation loan at 12%. You'll have to do the math and determine if your credit card APRs are lower or higher than the loan your bank offers. Financially it made better sense for me to get the loan since I had two cards with VERY high APRs (I was late mailing a payment in the middle of a cross-country move and they jacked up my rates).

It also takes disciplince; once you have your credit cards paid off with your bank loan it's very tempting for some to fall back into the same debt trap. I avoided that temptation by cutting up all my cards in front of my banker when I applied for the loan to demonstrate how serious I was. I got the loan with no problem.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 4:03:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Handsome_Rob:
How does one find a Debt Consolidation loan? Where would I start?



I would like you to ask yourself "How do I borrow my way out of debt" Don't make much sense when you say that does it?
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 4:09:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:

Originally Posted By Handsome_Rob:
How does one find a Debt Consolidation loan? Where would I start?



I would like you to ask yourself "How do I borrow my way out of debt" Don't make much sense when you say that does it?



If you are borrowing at a lower rate over a similar term,
then it does make sense.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 4:10:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/1/2005 4:51:20 PM EDT by Boom_Stick]

Originally Posted By TheCynic:
Thanks for calling me out,


You call'in me a troll? Prick.

Check this assholes response to a cancer sufferer that was in debt. Link (six posts down)


Originally Posted By TheCynic:

Originally Posted By bullyforyou:
supplemental insurance huh? if i'm already over my head in debit, how exactly am i supposed to *get* supplemental insurance?



Water under the bridge, now. You needed to purchase it
before you had problems (and debt).


What a heartless fuck! Prolly some pissed off 'lil bean counter holed up in a cubical somewhere.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 4:14:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheCynic:

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:

Originally Posted By Handsome_Rob:
How does one find a Debt Consolidation loan? Where would I start?



I would like you to ask yourself "How do I borrow my way out of debt" Don't make much sense when you say that does it?



If you are borrowing at a lower rate over a similar term,
then it does make sense.



For a longer term? No way. It's not the numbers, it the lack of personal discipline. How many file chapter 7 and never learn a thing? Most of them. Pay off the smallest amount first, then take that money and add it to the next largest and keep going until done. Never put your secured house debt with unsecured personal debt. One thing goes wrong ,and poof your house is gone because you borrowed on it to pay off cars,loans and cc debt.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 4:19:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/1/2005 4:22:10 PM EDT by ProfGAB101]

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:

I would like you to ask yourself "How do I borrow my way out of debt" Don't make much sense when you say that does it?



Easy - geta a signature loan @ 12% to pay off the CC's (which are charging 25+% on a 2 cycle billing balance and charging like a $39 late fee when they decide not to process your payment for 2 weeks.

I had 9 CC's maxed out. I've paid off all of them and had a zero balance for almost a year. (without a loan)

I canceled all but one CC, and I have a balance currently for getting tires and gas on a trip in July. This will be paid off by year end.

Edit: This thread sounds like a recruiting add for Fight Club 2006!
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 4:21:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:
How many file chapter 7 and never learn a thing? Most of them.



You have hard numbers on that?...
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 4:22:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:
For a longer term? No way. It's not the numbers, it the lack of personal discipline. How many file chapter 7 and never learn a thing? Most of them.



Preaching to the choir. Immediate gratification, meet
easy to obtain credit. You kids have fun.


Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:
Pay off the smallest amount first, then take that money and add it to the next largest and keep going until done.



This almost always means that you will pay more in
interest over the long term. I would think that paying
down the largest rate vehicle first would garner the
least amount of interest paid.


Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:
Never put your secured house debt with unsecured personal debt.



+1
Forclosure rates are going to go WAY up the next time
the economic takes a shit. Everyone has leveraged
their home to the hilt with HELs.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 4:28:56 PM EDT
Here is a very good program on Credit cards you can watch the full video online here

Secret History of the Credit Card
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 4:32:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By markl32:
Fascinating. The credit card company I deal with has not made any money on me in the 5 years I have had the account. In fact, they have paid me thousands of dollars in rewards. They have not cut me off or raised my rates.



same here. in fact they've raised my limit
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 4:36:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JoeWang:
Providian and Capitol One are both companies that seek out the "riskier" customer.

They've figured out they can charge annual fees and outrageous interest rates on people who cannot pay or transfer their balances elsewhere.



They were in ~2000. Capital One has actually bumped into the superprime and prime market in addition to auto loans, medical loans, mortages, etc. They're actually at the same % of subprime ("risky" or below-average credit history) customers as other lenders.

Providian, on the other hand, still suck donkey

Link Posted: 10/1/2005 4:45:38 PM EDT
This is exactly why I don't own a credit card and likely never will.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 6:18:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Commando223:
Here is a very good program on Credit cards you can watch the full video online here

Secret History of the Credit Card



Thanks for the link; it was very interesting and informative. No surprise to see Providan being slammed in the show for deceptive and predatory practices.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 6:20:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By raven:

Originally Posted By tReznr:

Originally Posted By raven:
Two can play at this game. Stop making payments. What can they do?



Uh... ruin your credit making it difficult if not impossible to buy a car or house down the line.



"owning" a house is an illusion and only chumps buy cars new. They depriciate the minute they leave the lot. So what are you losing by screwing banks who deliberately try to screw you?



If there were no "chumps" buying new cars where would you get your used clunkers from?

Link Posted: 10/1/2005 6:35:54 PM EDT
It actually hurts you to have open accounts with no balance on them.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 6:41:53 PM EDT

If you don't carry a balance and don't have a card with an
annual rate, the CC companies cannot screw you.


TheCynic, you missed a couple of times, and probably more, that the credit card companies screw people who don't carry a balance. Many companies start charging fees without warning on no fee cards. I manage the cards at work, and we've had that happen three or four times. Since we didn't pay the fees, they hurt our credit.

The other time you can get screwed by them even when you don't carry a balance is when they charge you bogus late fees. I pay all 17 credit card bills here at work on the same day we receive the bills in the mail, and every single month Bank of America charges us a late fee to at least one of the cards. It is physically impossible for us to pay the bills faster, and since they were all paid at the same day, it would seem that they would either change all of the accounts or none of the accounts. Instead, they process the payments out of order in different offices (after receiving all of them in the same PO box) at different times after they receive them. If the company they contracted with to process the payment is late or it takes long to ship the mail from their PO box to their contractor, then the customer is charged a late fee.

raven, buying a used car is a risk. Very often you'll end-up paying money to take someone else's problem. If you know the seller, then it's not much of a risk, but here at work we've been screwed dozens of times on vehicles in the past 9 years that I've been in charge of buying. We've given-up on used cars and trucks. So now we get screwed by Ford and Chevy since they won't pay for warranty work, but that's another issue.z
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 6:48:48 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 7:04:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:

Originally Posted By TheCynic:

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:

Originally Posted By Handsome_Rob:
How does one find a Debt Consolidation loan? Where would I start?



I would like you to ask yourself "How do I borrow my way out of debt" Don't make much sense when you say that does it?



If you are borrowing at a lower rate over a similar term,
then it does make sense.



For a longer term? No way. It's not the numbers, it the lack of personal discipline. How many file chapter 7 and never learn a thing? Most of them. Pay off the smallest amount first, then take that money and add it to the next largest and keep going until done. Never put your secured house debt with unsecured personal debt. One thing goes wrong ,and poof your house is gone because you borrowed on it to pay off cars,loans and cc debt.



I'm looking for a way to get rid of some of these interest rates. About 6 months ago I lost my job, and to make up for it while job hunting, I made some very bad decisions with some credit cards. Long story short, the interest rates are jacked up beyond belief so I am interested in cutting them up and paying them off at a more reasonable interest rate.

Link Posted: 10/1/2005 7:29:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/1/2005 7:32:03 PM EDT by jpman7]

Originally Posted By TheCynic:

+1
Forclosure rates are going to go WAY up the next time
the economic takes a shit. Everyone has leveraged
their home to the hilt with HELs.



Dude, that's what I'm waiting for! Everyones been buying and the values have skyrocketed. When the bubble bursts, and it will, I'll be able to pick some nice rental properties for a good price. There are so many people who have bought way more house than they can really afford, by going with these new "creative" financing plans. Like the interest only mortgages. The lending rules right now are so fast and loose, that anyone can get their McMasion. When the correction happens and people find out they have a $300,000 mortgage on a $175,000 house, gas is at $5/gal, heating bills thru the roof, and so on and so forth. They won't be able to afford that house, that they couldn't really afford to begin with. I'll be able to come in and scoop up some killer deals. Because I have saved and lived within my means, have a well paying job, and have no debt.

Now I didn't get here overnight. I had to overcome my own financial stupidity. I did what most people did, bought..bought...bought. I graduated from college and went crazy with all the CC's. It took 5 yrs to overcome what 18 months of uncontrolled spending racked up. I changed my lifestyle, got disiplined in my consuming habits. Now I don't need CC's. If I want to buy something I pay cash or save until I do have the cash. It's funny that now I can satisfy my instant gratification "bug" just as easily but without going into debt to do it. Of course that's "everything in moderation", but I find that I've been living so disiplined for so long that there are so many things anymore that I just don't want.

Moral of the story is evaluate your lifestyle and make the necessary changes so you can pay off your CC's. Sit down and figure out how you can pay them off in the absolute shortest amount of time. Make the sacrifices and do it, you'll be so happy with yourself when your done. I felt like I was walking on clouds the day I was finally out of CC debt. In fact I was so used to living reasonably that I went on to implement my plan on my cars and house. Paid them off too.
Link Posted: 10/1/2005 7:33:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tReznr:

Originally Posted By raven:
Two can play at this game. Stop making payments. What can they do?



Uh... ruin your credit making it difficult if not impossible to buy a car or house down the line.



add make it hard to get employment or stay employed.

increase in the cost of your auto insurance policy


The CC companies have this Nation by the balls.
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