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11/22/2017 10:05:29 PM
Posted: 9/7/2004 4:54:30 AM EST
I keep reading, on certain websites, that the book "Unfit for Command" and the allegations of the SWVT have been completely dicredited.

I was wondering...does anybody think the Swift Boat Vets are just talking trash? Why would over 200 of Kerry's ex co-workers step out of their private lives to denounce Kerry as not presidential material when most of them are not well connected republicans?
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 5:05:00 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 5:18:04 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/7/2004 5:20:02 AM EST by motown_steve]
I don't know about the validity of the information in the book, because I wasn't there.

I don't know about the validity of John Kerry's Medals or war records, because I was not there.

I do however know that John Kerry came back to the United States and accused Vietnam vetrans of commiting henous war crimes before the US congress, because I have seen the footage. I have heard John Kerry, with his own mouth accuse US Service men of being butchers and rapists pilaging the countryside in Vietnam. This goes way beyond a disagreement with US policy in Vietnam, this is a betrayal on the part of John Kerry to the men that he fought with, and anyone who wore or wears the uniform of the US military!

Fuck John Kerry!

ETA...The swifties played a huge role in bringing John Kerry's own words of condemnation against the US military into the public arena! I say "Anchors Aweigh" to the Siwftboat Vetrans for Truth!
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 5:18:18 AM EST
It also might have something to do with the official investigation of Kerry's medals by the Navy. I've read the book. It rings true. The allegations may have been denied or ignored by Kerry, but he has yet to sue them for libel. In order to do that he must prove they damaged his image or cost him money and that they were untrue. He would have no problem with the first, but he couldn't prove the second and he knows it.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 5:20:33 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 5:21:02 AM EST
I've read the book, and all the responses so far are spot-on.

Kerry better pray he never comes within arms reach of me, because I'll bitch-slap the treasonous, lying, cowardly bastard!
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 5:29:20 AM EST
they have been, just as the democrats claims that Bush was awol from his NG post have been proven false.

Personally I think the swiftboat thing was a brilliant move to counter the strategy of Kerry to compare his service record to GWB's.

Both sides are reduced to nitpicking over paperwork details now.

Link Posted: 9/7/2004 5:35:55 AM EST

Originally Posted By motown_steve:
I don't know about the validity of the information in the book, because I wasn't there.

I don't know about the validity of John Kerry's Medals or war records, because I was not there.

I do however know that John Kerry came back to the United States and accused Vietnam vetrans of commiting henous war crimes before the US congress, because I have seen the footage. I have heard John Kerry, with his own mouth accuse US Service men of being butchers and rapists pilaging the countryside in Vietnam. This goes way beyond a disagreement with US policy in Vietnam, this is a betrayal on the part of John Kerry to the men that he fought with, and anyone who wore or wears the uniform of the US military!

Fuck John Kerry!

ETA...The swifties played a huge role in bringing John Kerry's own words of condemnation against the US military into the public arena! I say "Anchors Aweigh" to the Siwftboat Vetrans for Truth!



HOOOYAAAH!!!
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 5:38:21 AM EST

Originally Posted By Dino:
they have been



No, actually they haven't been.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 5:38:27 AM EST

Originally Posted By Dino:
they have been, just as the democrats claims that Bush was awol from his NG post have been proven false.



Have they, now?

Let's see...... whose war records are now being examined because they have been found to be, er......"irregular"?

It ain't the Swifties, and it ain't Bush.

Kerry has his dick in the wringer, and can't get it out. The funny thing is he put it there himself. The Swifties were simply the first to begin cranking the handle...
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 6:30:40 AM EST
I've read the book. I've listened to some of the 254 Swift Boat Vets who have spoken out against Kerry, signed open letters denouncing him and been on radio and TV. Some state unequivically that they are Democrats who have never voted for a Republican. Their sole reason for this campaign is to ensure that a lying, traitorous medal hound doesn't become Commander In Chief.

I proudly admit I'm a Kerry hater...for lots of reasons.

That said, please believe me, as a Vietnam vet and historian, I'm very concerned about the truth and our accurate understanding of the war. I have done a bit of research into whatever docs I could locate on Kerry and his war experiences. His available records are spotty to say the least. Much of his records are not available now. That which is, leaves some serious questions because of the lack of corroboration. I understand that the Navy has been ordered by the DoD to conduct a detailed search of Kerry's records looking for records to support his medals. This is in response to a FOIA request and formal letter to the DoD and Justice Dept. demanding a formal investigation under the law into Kerry's record. Apparently he BROKE THE LAW in the '70s with his traitorous behavior and that forms the legal basis of this investigation.

I'm also a retired naval officer who served as an enlisted man for 17 of 28 total years of service. I knew some men like Kerry...medal hounds and moral cowards.

Kerry's military career is a sham. His medals are fake. He falsified his record. He lied about being in combat. He left Vietnam eight months early. He committed war crimes. Then, most egregiously, he returned to the United States and while still a commissioned officer in the Navy and subject to the UCMJ, consorted with the enemy and supported the efforts of our enemy to kill and capture our fighting men, to the severe detriment of our men in combat and to those men imprisoned as POWs in Vietnam.

Read your history. Study from several sources and look for those first-person accounts...NOT from shills from the Democratic Party. One dead giveaway is the number of folks who are against him, vs. the number and types of those trying to provide cover.

John Kerry is a lying traitor who does not deserve to be president.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 12:08:03 PM EST

Originally Posted By LWilde:
I've read the book. I've listened to some of the 254 Swift Boat Vets who have spoken out against Kerry, signed open letters denouncing him and been on radio and TV. Some state unequivically that they are Democrats who have never voted for a Republican. Their sole reason for this campaign is to ensure that a lying, traitorous medal hound doesn't become Commander In Chief.

I proudly admit I'm a Kerry hater...for lots of reasons.

That said, please believe me, as a Vietnam vet and historian, I'm very concerned about the truth and our accurate understanding of the war. I have done a bit of research into whatever docs I could locate on Kerry and his war experiences. His available records are spotty to say the least. Much of his records are not available now. That which is, leaves some serious questions because of the lack of corroboration. I understand that the Navy has been ordered by the DoD to conduct a detailed search of Kerry's records looking for records to support his medals. This is in response to a FOIA request and formal letter to the DoD and Justice Dept. demanding a formal investigation under the law into Kerry's record. Apparently he BROKE THE LAW in the '70s with his traitorous behavior and that forms the legal basis of this investigation.

I'm also a retired naval officer who served as an enlisted man for 17 of 28 total years of service. I knew some men like Kerry...medal hounds and moral cowards.

Kerry's military career is a sham. His medals are fake. He falsified his record. He lied about being in combat. He left Vietnam eight months early. He committed war crimes. Then, most egregiously, he returned to the United States and while still a commissioned officer in the Navy and subject to the UCMJ, consorted with the enemy and supported the efforts of our enemy to kill and capture our fighting men, to the severe detriment of our men in combat and to those men imprisoned as POWs in Vietnam.

Read your history. Study from several sources and look for those first-person accounts...NOT from shills from the Democratic Party. One dead giveaway is the number of folks who are against him, vs. the number and types of those trying to provide cover.

John Kerry is a lying traitor who does not deserve to be president.



PREACH IT, shipmate!
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 12:35:16 PM EST
I read Unfit and now I am loaning it out to others.... Kerry is an insult to the militarty and the US of A
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 12:42:32 PM EST
What are the odds, that 95% of Kerry's fellow swift boat officers (men he served with), all turned out to be right wing, partisan liars?
That would indeed be strange.


Link Posted: 9/7/2004 12:47:00 PM EST

Originally Posted By Da_Bunny:
I keep reading, on certain websites, that the book "Unfit for Command" and the allegations of the SWVT have been completely dicredited.

Do they, however, give links to the evidence which "completely discredit" the allegations?

Do they mention the fact that the Kerry campaign has had to admit that, despite it being "seared - seared" into his memory, Kerry really wasn't in Cambodia on Christmas Eve/Christmas day 1968?

Do they mention the fact that the Kerry campaign has admitted that maybe, just maybe, that first Purple Heart was due to shrapnel self-inflicted by Kerry when he discharged an M-79 grenade launcher too close?

They haven't "completely discredited" a damned thing. It's called "wishful thinking."
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 12:49:14 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/7/2004 12:49:59 PM EST by the]
Kerry could disprove the claims of those vets by executing form 180.

He won't. There's a reason for it.

I've read the book. I've read Kerry's "explanations." And I believe the swfit boat vets.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 12:52:21 PM EST
In fifty years when historians look back at the historical 2004 presidential election where Pres. Bush won 45 states, I wonder if they will appreciate the effect the swift boat vets had on this election.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 12:52:51 PM EST
Lt Kerry, USNR, met with members of the North Vietnamese Government in Paris, while we were still at war with them.

Can you imagine?
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 12:55:11 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/7/2004 12:58:07 PM EST by Max_Mike]

Originally Posted By Dino:
they have been, just as the democrats claims that Bush was awol from his NG post have been proven false.

Personally I think the swiftboat thing was a brilliant move to counter the strategy of Kerry to compare his service record to GWB's.

Both sides are reduced to nitpicking over paperwork details now.




Oh really:

Kerry has admitted he was not in Cambodia during Christmas as he had previously claimed. There is no evidence he was ever in Cambodia.

Kerry’s campaign has released a statement that the wound for his first purple heart might have been self inflected and his own journal states they had never been under fire until after that wound. Meaning that Purple Heart is was almost certainly unearned.

Ect., Ect., Ect. …

Whatever the truth about his combat service that in no way negates his actions when he got back to the US and libeled other Vets and then worked to assure a US defeat in SE Asia.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 1:06:38 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/7/2004 1:07:15 PM EST by Dino]

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:

Originally Posted By Dino:
they have been, just as the democrats claims that Bush was awol from his NG post have been proven false.

Personally I think the swiftboat thing was a brilliant move to counter the strategy of Kerry to compare his service record to GWB's.

Both sides are reduced to nitpicking over paperwork details now.




Oh really:

Kerry has admitted he was not in Cambodia during Christmas as he had previously claimed. There is no evidence he was ever in Cambodia.



which has exactly zip zero nada to do with his medals or his military record. It just means he's a liar , which not many people are willing to argue about at this point.

I'm not voting for Kerry on that basis alone.

I don't need to make up more shit to make him look bad. Thats a technique I prefer to leave to the extremists (whether liberal or conservative)

back to the schedule Kerry bashing
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 1:14:11 PM EST

Originally Posted By Dino:

I don't need to make up more shit to make him look bad. Thats a technique I prefer to leave to the extremists (whether liberal or conservative)




Then, please, prove the "extremism" of the Swift Vets. They are the ones challenging Kerry.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 1:19:17 PM EST

Originally Posted By Zaphod:
I've read the book, and all the responses so far are spot-on.

Kerry better pray he never comes within arms reach of me, because I'll bitch-slap the treasonous, lying, cowardly bastard!



Big talk.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 1:19:21 PM EST

Originally Posted By Dino:

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:

Originally Posted By Dino:
they have been, just as the democrats claims that Bush was awol from his NG post have been proven false.

Personally I think the swiftboat thing was a brilliant move to counter the strategy of Kerry to compare his service record to GWB's.

Both sides are reduced to nitpicking over paperwork details now.




Oh really:

Kerry has admitted he was not in Cambodia during Christmas as he had previously claimed. There is no evidence he was ever in Cambodia.



which has exactly zip zero nada to do with his medals or his military record. It just means he's a liar , which not many people are willing to argue about at this point.

I'm not voting for Kerry on that basis alone.

I don't need to make up more shit to make him look bad. Thats a technique I prefer to leave to the extremists (whether liberal or conservative)

back to the schedule Kerry bashing



Oh yes it does. He also lied to get his Purple Hearts and other medals of valor.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 1:21:23 PM EST
can't wait for Kerry to lose the election.

I am stationed in his personal paradise - Massachusetts - aka Hell - land of the flaming liberal homosexual gun haters of New England. I was at the DNC doing security - I was ashamed to be there protecting these sick individuals every day. No real protests there - its good that Teresa Kerry is a big supporter of the Ruckus society - how convenient that the protests all magically went away. I saw the insane partying going on here- courtesy of your tax dollars - thank Bill Clinton, Michael Moore, Hillary Clinton, Howard Dean, Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, and fellow company who were all here in beantown to get drunk and stupid. If Kerry is ever elected, I will NEVER give him the respect of Commander in Chief. He's not just a tool - he's a rich a##hole who has no backbone.

You CANNOT stab your fellow veterans in the back and bring discredit upon the uniform and EXPECT to be respected as a Commander in Chief. Kerry lied while good men died. When I hear of one medal that Kerry earned - and didn't get from sucking #$#$# - I will be impressed. Four months in Vietnam with nothing but a scratch - yeah like that ISNT political connections. He grew up around the Kennedy family - his family was close to them - but no coincidence - far be it of me that I should imply any. Thats the end of it. I hate his two-faced limp-dick communist self more then ever. I will not be surprised in the least if he wins Massachusetts - most of this state is stupid enough to vote for him. Massachusetts can HAVE John Kerry. No one else wants him.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 1:28:08 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/7/2004 1:28:50 PM EST by Cincinnatus]
Fact:

If there was a "loophole", which allowed "thrice wounded" marines to go home early from Iraq...

...it better be because you need hospitalization and rehabilitation.

If one of my Lieutenants was as mildly wounded as Kerry, and then took advantage of such a loophole, and requested to go home....
...he would be asked to leave the unit.
The company.
The battalion.
No one would want him.

He would be considered a coward, a disgrace, by abandonning his men, and fleeing for home, while they were still in the fight.
You don't leave your men, unless you are carried off the field.
Kerry bolted.

It doesn't take courage to get shot.
Staying and doing one's duty AFTER getting shot, maybe.
But it's really just doing one's duty, and remaining loyal to your men and your comrades.

End of the story?


Oh no.

He then goes home to march with those who carry the N.Vietnamese flag.
He bad mouths his fellow fighting men on the floor of the senate, and any other venue he can find.
He even meets with the enemy and talks with them, OUTSIDE the country.

His men?
Still over there fighting.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 1:38:11 PM EST
I listened to John O'Neill on the radio today and the subject of them being discredited because at one time some of the signatory were seen to support Sen. Kerry's Senatorial Campaign came up. What it turns out be is that several years ago an opponent of his, based on Sen. Kerry's own statements, said he was a war criminal (this was based the shooting of a fleeing, wounded combatant in the back). Several of the current SBVTs came out and said that Sen. Kerry was no war criminal for shooting the fleeing Vietnamese man.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 1:40:15 PM EST

Originally Posted By Dino:

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:

Originally Posted By Dino:
they have been, just as the democrats claims that Bush was awol from his NG post have been proven false.

Personally I think the swiftboat thing was a brilliant move to counter the strategy of Kerry to compare his service record to GWB's.

Both sides are reduced to nitpicking over paperwork details now.




Oh really:

Kerry has admitted he was not in Cambodia during Christmas as he had previously claimed. There is no evidence he was ever in Cambodia.



which has exactly zip zero nada to do with his medals or his military record. It just means he's a liar , which not many people are willing to argue about at this point.

I'm not voting for Kerry on that basis alone.

I don't need to make up more shit to make him look bad. Thats a technique I prefer to leave to the extremists (whether liberal or conservative)

back to the schedule Kerry bashing



A feeble attempt… you kinda cherry picked that one and did not address the other points.
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