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Posted: 3/11/2011 10:00:04 PM EST
sorry if its a dupe my search fu is weak. I stumbled across this guys blog today and read through this article Surviving Argentina's Collapse parts 1-3 and it really helped me visualize a realistic SHTF type situation we in America could face. He shed light on things i hadn't considered and gave me a much better idea of what things would be like if the economy/government collapsed. I thought he made good points on some things but others struck me as subjective.

Anyway, for those of you who have read this guys stuff, and know about what happened there in 2001, what are your opinions? For instance, the writer says he kept going to work and just kept a handgun on him, and he pretty much thought the idea of walking around with a rifle absurd. Also, it sounded like everyone pretty much just kept living at home, it wasn't a "head for the hills, go live in the woods" sort of thing, life seemed to just keep on going except everyone was impoverished and crime was rampant, actually it just kind of sounds like living in Mexico now that i think about it. Is this about what it would look like in america too?
Link Posted: 3/11/2011 10:02:40 PM EST
Our member here ferfal (I think) lived through that, and did a very interesting write-up about it. That may even be his piece, I haven't read his in a long time. Search the Survival Forum in the Outdoors section.
Link Posted: 3/11/2011 10:06:23 PM EST
ya ya that was the guy, i didnt realize he was a member here, i figured surely this had come up before, it just didnt come up when i did a search on here.
Link Posted: 3/12/2011 1:05:26 AM EST
Heres his blog Ferfal
Link Posted: 3/12/2011 1:27:44 AM EST
I have studied it extensively enough for the material that is available around the net without buying and reading his book. I do plan to purchase it in the future when I have some spare cash. $25 on Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/Modern-Survival-Manual-Surviving-Economic/dp/9870563457/ref=wl_it_dp_o?ie=UTF8&coliid=I23NEG40Q25UXP&colid=3TWD2DK3V14KU

Some thoughts come to mind. The coldest it ever gets in Argentina that I can find is right below freezing @ 27°. In Beunos Aires it seems the coldest it gets is about 41°. Ferfal had complained about electricity being intermittent and when working still wasn't sufficient enough to properly power appliances. My fear is that a similar event here in the states would be catastrophic in winter time, especially in northern states.

Something else I found very interesting that I did not see addressed was how this economic collapse came to happen. I'll let folks here who are concerned read for themselves the causation. There are videos on Youtube that cover it extensively as well as articles on the web that can be found. I found it very enlightening and I believe the same thing is happening to our country by the exact same perpetrators. Be ready for a paradigm shift in your own beliefs and understandings of how things work in the world and international financial industry. That is if you are a scholar with an open mind.

I believe Argentina is a good case study for understanding the dynamics of economic collapse, how to prepare yourself and what to prepare for. Do yourself a favor and take out one evening and study about what the fuck happened and the end result. It will take several hours to digest enough material to get the jist, but its worth it.

Link Posted: 3/12/2011 2:54:28 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/12/2011 2:54:53 AM EST by Storm_Tracker]
I really find it fascinating that this isn't being discussed. More than 230 views.

Im wondering if it isn't of interest; which is confounding. Or possibly is to difficult for folks to grasp to chime in.
Link Posted: 3/12/2011 3:00:06 AM EST
I just came back from a week in Argentina. It's kind of a fucked up place. Anywhere you can expect to see horses on the freeways of major cities is kind of a fucked up place.

All you need to know about it can be summed up by spending about 10 minutes outside one of the Medico Publico buildings. It should be required of every United States legislator.

Their middle class standards of living are what we as American's would expect when we are 21-22 years old and venturing out on our own for the first time with little resources. They got some fine women, though.
Link Posted: 3/12/2011 3:02:43 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/12/2011 3:03:47 AM EST by Execute_Method]

Originally Posted By Storm_Tracker:
I really find it fascinating that this isn't being discussed. More than 230 views.

Im wondering if it isn't of interest; which is confounding. Or possibly is to difficult for folks to grasp to chime in.

We can't read or write. The public education system has failed us.... YMMV



Actually, I've read FerFals write up before, I believe it was posted in the survival section of the forum. If I recall, there was a mix of people who thought it could not happen like that here, and others who analyzed it and saw that many of the factors could easily be applied here if things get really bad.
Link Posted: 3/12/2011 3:05:50 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/12/2011 3:07:43 AM EST by vintovka]
Originally Posted By Storm_Tracker:
I really find it fascinating that this isn't being discussed. More than 230 views.

Im wondering if it isn't of interest; which is confounding. Or possibly is to difficult for folks to grasp to chime in.


Ferfal,his book "The Modern Survival Manual: Surviving the Economic Collapse" and his videos (Grabbing the Apple) are discussed periodically on the survival forums in the Outdoors section.

The reason that Surviving the Economic Collapse is not discussed more often is that it is based on a real life SHTF situation and not a Zombie hoard or foreign invasion, it is however one of the best books on survival I've read in many years.

If you mean a possible economic collapse "Argentina style" it is discussed fairly frequently in the GD.



Link Posted: 3/12/2011 3:07:31 AM EST

Originally Posted By SevenMaryThree:
I just came back from a week in Argentina. It's kind of a fucked up place. Anywhere you can expect to see horses on the freeways of major cities is kind of a fucked up place.

All you need to know about it can be summed up by spending about 10 minutes outside one of the Medico Publico buildings. It should be required of every United States legislator.

Their middle class standards of living are what we as American's would expect when we are 21-22 years old and venturing out on our own for the first time with little resources. They got some fine women, though.

Where and how did you eat? Were their eateries? What was the selection and availability like? Did you shop for food at grocery stores? What were they like? If so did you cook it yourself in a hotel room etc..?? Where you atayed what were the amenities like? Plumbing., electricity et al.

Sorry to ask so many questions.
Link Posted: 3/12/2011 3:09:08 AM EST
Is the role of precious metals discussed at all? Were they held as value? How did people fare who held precious metals? Better than others that had none?
Link Posted: 3/12/2011 3:09:57 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/12/2011 3:12:26 AM EST by Storm_Tracker]

Originally Posted By vintovka:
Originally Posted By Storm_Tracker:
I really find it fascinating that this isn't being discussed. More than 230 views.

Im wondering if it isn't of interest; which is confounding. Or possibly is to difficult for folks to grasp to chime in.

If you mean a possible economic collapse "Argentina style" it is discussed fairly frequently in the GD.
I was alluding to in particular this thread. prior to your psot and others it didn't seem to be moving. Also I dont see discussion of to the how and why. I was trying to stimulate that somewhat with my post.

Link Posted: 3/12/2011 3:11:55 AM EST

Originally Posted By AmericanPatriot1776:
Is the role of precious metals discussed at all? Were they held as value? How did people fare who held precious metals? Better than others that had none?
I would assume precious metals held value when their currency did not. They would then trae their silver or gold for the currencys current value after the dust settled. Its not rocket science although many make it out to be. Its funny the more educated some folks are the more challenged they become with simplistic thought.

Link Posted: 3/12/2011 3:24:48 AM EST

Originally Posted By Execute_Method:

Originally Posted By Storm_Tracker:
I really find it fascinating that this isn't being discussed. More than 230 views.

Im wondering if it isn't of interest; which is confounding. Or possibly is to difficult for folks to grasp to chime in.

We can't read or write. The public education system has failed us.... YMMV



Actually, I've read FerFals write up before, I believe it was posted in the survival section of the forum. If I recall, there was a mix of people who thought it could not happen like that here, and others who analyzed it and saw that many of the factors could easily be applied here if things get really bad.


There are many factors that could lead it to be far worse here, than there . The differences between Arg and the US are major enough that i seriously do think that it wont be the same. It will have similarities, but it wont be the same and i fear it will be much worse.

Kinda like a rich person goes thru a cat 5 and a poor person goes thru a cat 5 hurricane . They both go through it but the rich person has a hell of time because they are not used to going with out....while the poor person adapts to the situation easier because they have been used to doing with less. While they both have gone through the same Cat 5 hurricane their perspectives of the event will be widely different.The rich person may be more vocal about his accounts because of how traumatic they were to him, while the poor person my not, and consider themselves lucky to have made it through. To those who haven't gone through a hurricane it is all the same in their eye , when in reality it is not.


I tell folks, wanna know FF's story. read his 1st writings he did for frugal squirrels , then work your way to his book. There are some aspects of preparedness that he has a lot to offer to those wanting to learn from his insight/perspective of what a economic collapse is like, other areas, it seems to be "old is new" with his opinion added to those ideas. If your seasoned read it for some different outlooks, if your a new survivalist, read it, then take what you can use to better your preparations.

Link Posted: 3/12/2011 3:32:20 AM EST
A few friends of mine went to Buenos Aires to live for 4 months this past year. One story they told struck me as interesting: they said that the bus drivers and bus companies there hoarded all the coin currency, which is apparently the only thing you can use on the buses. In effect, they raised the value of coins over what they are currently worth as a currency doing so. They also kind of used this as a tool to get what they wanted from the gov't. I thought that was interesting.

My friends only stayed for half of their scheduled time there. They liked it, but said it was just too difficult to get things done there and were concerned about access to medical care if they needed it.
Link Posted: 3/12/2011 3:36:13 AM EST

Originally Posted By protus:

Originally Posted By Execute_Method:

Originally Posted By Storm_Tracker:
I really find it fascinating that this isn't being discussed. More than 230 views.

Im wondering if it isn't of interest; which is confounding. Or possibly is to difficult for folks to grasp to chime in.

We can't read or write. The public education system has failed us.... YMMV



Actually, I've read FerFals write up before, I believe it was posted in the survival section of the forum. If I recall, there was a mix of people who thought it could not happen like that here, and others who analyzed it and saw that many of the factors could easily be applied here if things get really bad.


There are many factors that could lead it to be far worse here, than there . The differences between Arg and the US are major enough that i seriously do think that it wont be the same. It will have similarities, but it wont be the same and i fear it will be much worse.

Kinda like a rich person goes thru a cat 5 and a poor person goes thru a cat 5 hurricane . They both go through it but the rich person has a hell of time because they are not used to going with out....while the poor person adapts to the situation easier because they have been used to doing with less. While they both have gone through the same Cat 5 hurricane their perspectives of the event will be widely different.The rich person may be more vocal about his accounts because of how traumatic they were to him, while the poor person my not, and consider themselves lucky to have made it through. To those who haven't gone through a hurricane it is all the same in their eye , when in reality it is not.


I tell folks, wanna know FF's story. read his 1st writings he did for frugal squirrels , then work your way to his book. There are some aspects of preparedness that he has a lot to offer to those wanting to learn from his insight/perspective of what a economic collapse is like, other areas, it seems to be "old is new" with his opinion added to those ideas. If your seasoned read it for some different outlooks, if your a new survivalist, read it, then take what you can use to better your preparations.


I find interesting the concept of somewhat controlled chaos and the need to CCW as opposed to an all out rifle and tactical like rig. Makes you rethink some of your preps. Not that the rifle and rig isnt important to still have their role is reduced from what fantasy would dictate.

CCW is an emergency or austerity mode in society makes me ponder Katrina and how most were disarmed. This is why it is important to get legislation at state levels passed that protecrts citizenry from blatant constitutional infringements. Also like it would matter if they still found the need. All laws are suspended because this emergency law was enacted BS may become the rule...

Many things to ponder.

Link Posted: 3/12/2011 3:38:45 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/12/2011 3:39:39 AM EST by macman37]
I would measure anything FerFAL says against reality very closely and judge for myself what he says.

I do not think he is what he says he is.
Link Posted: 3/12/2011 3:39:40 AM EST

Originally Posted By Storm_Tracker:

Originally Posted By SevenMaryThree:
I just came back from a week in Argentina. It's kind of a fucked up place. Anywhere you can expect to see horses on the freeways of major cities is kind of a fucked up place.

All you need to know about it can be summed up by spending about 10 minutes outside one of the Medico Publico buildings. It should be required of every United States legislator.

Their middle class standards of living are what we as American's would expect when we are 21-22 years old and venturing out on our own for the first time with little resources. They got some fine women, though.

Where and how did you eat? Were their eateries? What was the selection and availability like? Did you shop for food at grocery stores? What were they like? If so did you cook it yourself in a hotel room etc..?? Where you atayed what were the amenities like? Plumbing., electricity et al.

Sorry to ask so many questions.


I stayed in a 4-star hotel and ate in nice restaurants in Recoleta neighborhood. It's a lot like Manhattan. Go two miles towards the port though and you gonna get raped when the sun goes down. Think corrugated tin shanty towns.

Then I traveled to the countryside and stayed in an estancia that had cooks and wait staff. The grocery stores are either like Sam's Club (huge, few and far between) or little local shops. Most people don't grocery shop like we do. They make multiple smaller trips to the store. Accommodations are small...there isn't the room to store a week's worth of rations in your refrigerator. Pluming and electricity were first world quality where I stayed.

In the countryside, gauchos and kids would hear us shooting and come to the fields to get dinner. I always gave them either a $10 peso bill or a $1 US when they came out...good people, dirt fucking poor. They see American currency as very lucky. One guy made the mention that "now he was a millionaire."

The cars are all tiny shit boxes. A Camry is a luxury vehicle. I don't remember what the price of gas was, but it was expensive. It is easy to die on Argentine highways. Life is cheap on the roads. i came too close a couple of times this trip.

Give me a minute and I'll upload some fotos.
Link Posted: 3/12/2011 3:42:54 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/12/2011 3:47:13 AM EST by RRA_223]
Originally Posted By vintovka:
Originally Posted By Storm_Tracker:
I really find it fascinating that this isn't being discussed. More than 230 views.

Im wondering if it isn't of interest; which is confounding. Or possibly is to difficult for folks to grasp to chime in.


Ferfal,his book "The Modern Survival Manual: Surviving the Economic Collapse" and his videos (Grabbing the Apple) are discussed periodically on the survival forums in the Outdoors section.

The reason that Surviving the Economic Collapse is not discussed more often is that it is based on a real life SHTF situation and not a Zombie hoard or foreign invasion, it is however one of the best books on survival I've read in many years.

If you mean a possible economic collapse "Argentina style" it is discussed fairly frequently in the GD.


+1

We even have a really big, contentious thread dedicated to the topic, although "Argentina" is not usually referenced - there is a tremendous overlap. YASBYBIC-Pt 6


Link Posted: 3/12/2011 3:46:47 AM EST
Originally Posted By macman37:
I would measure anything FerFAL says against reality very closely and judge for myself what he says.

I do not think he is what he says he is.


In all the years I've surfed ARFCOM, this is the first I have ever heard relating to FerFal, his postings, and his experiences.


Perhaps you could expand on why you think this - examples and references would be helpful. His name carries considerable weight in the survival subforums.
Link Posted: 3/12/2011 3:47:11 AM EST

Originally Posted By Storm_Tracker:

Originally Posted By protus:

Originally Posted By Execute_Method:

Originally Posted By Storm_Tracker:
I really find it fascinating that this isn't being discussed. More than 230 views.

Im wondering if it isn't of interest; which is confounding. Or possibly is to difficult for folks to grasp to chime in.

We can't read or write. The public education system has failed us.... YMMV



Actually, I've read FerFals write up before, I believe it was posted in the survival section of the forum. If I recall, there was a mix of people who thought it could not happen like that here, and others who analyzed it and saw that many of the factors could easily be applied here if things get really bad.


There are many factors that could lead it to be far worse here, than there . The differences between Arg and the US are major enough that i seriously do think that it wont be the same. It will have similarities, but it wont be the same and i fear it will be much worse.

Kinda like a rich person goes thru a cat 5 and a poor person goes thru a cat 5 hurricane . They both go through it but the rich person has a hell of time because they are not used to going with out....while the poor person adapts to the situation easier because they have been used to doing with less. While they both have gone through the same Cat 5 hurricane their perspectives of the event will be widely different.The rich person may be more vocal about his accounts because of how traumatic they were to him, while the poor person my not, and consider themselves lucky to have made it through. To those who haven't gone through a hurricane it is all the same in their eye , when in reality it is not.


I tell folks, wanna know FF's story. read his 1st writings he did for frugal squirrels , then work your way to his book. There are some aspects of preparedness that he has a lot to offer to those wanting to learn from his insight/perspective of what a economic collapse is like, other areas, it seems to be "old is new" with his opinion added to those ideas. If your seasoned read it for some different outlooks, if your a new survivalist, read it, then take what you can use to better your preparations.


I find interesting the concept of somewhat controlled chaos and the need to CCW as opposed to an all out rifle and tactical like rig. Makes you rethink some of your preps. Not that the rifle and rig isnt important to still have their role is reduced from what fantasy would dictate.

CCW is an emergency or austerity mode in society makes me ponder Katrina and how most were disarmed. This is why it is important to get legislation at state levels passed that protecrts citizenry from blatant constitutional infringements. Also like it would matter if they still found the need. All laws are suspended because this emergency law was enacted BS may become the rule...

Many things to ponder.



Reality is the thing to ponder
Someone that says " oh im gonna put my rattle on" and stand at my front door during a 2 day power outage..has issues, same as the guy that refuses to train or have a long arm because all they think they need is sidearm or single shot shotgun for shtf.
Katrina was a cluster F. People had choices, submit or stand. When it came to their rights.We saw what they chose to do.
If the event is that bad that it warrants the TPTB to physically disarm the populace, we have much, much bigger issues on hand, than a person who is now CCWing because crime rates have risen and they feel unsafe.

I will point out that after xx days of no power, your neighbors get nosy when they smell coffee, cooking food, a genny running or music/radio or see lights ( means power)..... add that to the things to ponder and what events could unfold were CCW wouldnt be the best choice


Link Posted: 3/12/2011 3:53:55 AM EST










Link Posted: 3/12/2011 3:59:54 AM EST
Originally Posted By RRA_223:
Originally Posted By macman37:
I would measure anything FerFAL says against reality very closely and judge for myself what he says.

I do not think he is what he says he is.


In all the years I've surfed ARFCOM, this is the first I have ever heard relating to FerFal, his postings, and his experiences.


Perhaps you could expand on why you think this - examples and references would be helpful. His name carries considerable weight in the survival subforums.


Then you need to pay more attention. Yes there is a large group of sycophants who will swallow everything he has to say because there's no easy way to corroborate his story... But if you do a little digging, his story changes.

Others can fill the story in better than I. I just did a cursory search in my IMs and email and couldn't find the info I have been sent.

Basically: What he says often makes sense... But bear this in mind: he is trying to come off (and profit) as an authority on a subject he may or may not have even been present for.

I simply urge caution with anyone hitching their wagon to the Ferfal train. This subject (survival) is far too important for you or anyone else to become a follower of a guy who is only doing this for the fame. "Because Ferfal said it" is not going to cut it.
Link Posted: 3/12/2011 4:01:31 AM EST
WARNING! Sign on people that are buying gold coins. Since it is impossible to determine the true mineral percentage of gold, small shops and dealers will pay for it as regular jewelry gold. What I would do if I were you: Besides gold coins, buy a lot of small gold rings and other jewelry. They should be less expensive than gold coins, and if the SHTF bad, you won’t be losing money, selling premium quality gold coins for the price of junk gold. If I could travel back in time, I’d buy a small bag of gold rings.

Never really thought of this one.

Link Posted: 3/12/2011 4:09:28 AM EST

Originally Posted By RRA_223:
Originally Posted By macman37:
I would measure anything FerFAL says against reality very closely and judge for myself what he says.

I do not think he is what he says he is.


In all the years I've surfed ARFCOM, this is the first I have ever heard relating to FerFal, his postings, and his experiences.


Perhaps you could expand on why you think this - examples and references would be helpful. His name carries considerable weight in the survival subforums.

i got plenty My dislike for some of his views(opinions) is not hidden. Though starting an opinion war on "what if's " doesn't lead to much.

The best advice for anyone wanting "examples and references" is to follow what i said above.
Read his posting/blog entries since he 1st appeared over at FS..then form your opinion from that.
Ive followed him since i think it was late 04" or when ever his 1st write up on FS came out. Ive read his book twice.
Ive argued with him till we were both blue in the face...

only the reader who has read all of those can form an accurate opinion of the guy.

Link Posted: 3/12/2011 4:25:59 AM EST
Interesting write up.

Body armor is cheap compared to what we spend on firearm accessories. Handguns as the focus of training and accessibility makes sense––especially in urban areas. Life will go on.

What happens to private property in these circumstances? What about mortgages? I would think neighbors would stick up for neighbors to protect property rights short of someone being removed by order of law enforcement.
Link Posted: 3/12/2011 4:30:07 AM EST
His blog is avaialbe to anyone who makes a small effort to find it. Very interesting - different societies and cultures however, if there are universal elements, his insights and related history are worth reading.
Link Posted: 3/12/2011 4:33:36 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/12/2011 4:33:52 AM EST by SevenMaryThree]

Originally Posted By Curare:
Interesting write up.

Body armor is cheap compared to what we spend on firearm accessories. Handguns as the focus of training and accessibility makes sense––especially in urban areas. Life will go on.

What happens to private property in these circumstances? What about mortgages? I would think neighbors would stick up for neighbors to protect property rights short of someone being removed by order of law enforcement.


FYI, in Argentina there are no mortgages. All real estate transactions are done in cash....in US Dollars only.

Link Posted: 3/12/2011 4:34:06 AM EST
Originally Posted By Storm_Tracker:

Originally Posted By AmericanPatriot1776:
Is the role of precious metals discussed at all? Were they held as value? How did people fare who held precious metals? Better than others that had none?
I would assume precious metals held value when their currency did not. They would then trae their silver or gold for the currencys current value after the dust settled. Its not rocket science although many make it out to be. Its funny the more educated some folks are the more challenged they become with simplistic thought.



So you really don't know either........I hope that as not a jab, since you really do not know the answer either.

Link Posted: 3/12/2011 4:44:08 AM EST

Originally Posted By protus:

Originally Posted By Execute_Method:

Originally Posted By Storm_Tracker:
I really find it fascinating that this isn't being discussed. More than 230 views.

Im wondering if it isn't of interest; which is confounding. Or possibly is to difficult for folks to grasp to chime in.

We can't read or write. The public education system has failed us.... YMMV



Actually, I've read FerFals write up before, I believe it was posted in the survival section of the forum. If I recall, there was a mix of people who thought it could not happen like that here, and others who analyzed it and saw that many of the factors could easily be applied here if things get really bad.


<snip>

Kinda like a rich person goes thru a cat 5 and a poor person goes thru a cat 5 hurricane . They both go through it but the rich person has a hell of time because they are not used to going with out....while the poor person adapts to the situation easier because they have been used to doing with less. While they both have gone through the same Cat 5 hurricane their perspectives of the event will be widely different.The rich person may be more vocal about his accounts because of how traumatic they were to him, while the poor person my not, and consider themselves lucky to have made it through. To those who haven't gone through a hurricane it is all the same in their eye , when in reality it is not.


<snip>

No offense, but this is class envy/warfare BS. Lots of "rich folks" have seen hard times. And just how many "poor" hood rats take the initiative to be self sufficient? Yeah, not many.
Link Posted: 3/12/2011 4:46:16 AM EST

Originally Posted By AmericanPatriot1776:
Originally Posted By Storm_Tracker:

Originally Posted By AmericanPatriot1776:
Is the role of precious metals discussed at all? Were they held as value? How did people fare who held precious metals? Better than others that had none?
I would assume precious metals held value when their currency did not. They would then trae their silver or gold for the currencys current value after the dust settled. Its not rocket science although many make it out to be. Its funny the more educated some folks are the more challenged they become with simplistic thought.



So you really don't know either........I hope that as not a jab, since you really do not know the answer either.


yes PMs get discussed .
yes people used them
some fared much better than others when converting them to something of value(either personally or monetarily ).


Link Posted: 3/12/2011 4:48:17 AM EST

Originally Posted By AmericanPatriot1776:
Originally Posted By Storm_Tracker:

Originally Posted By AmericanPatriot1776:
Is the role of precious metals discussed at all? Were they held as value? How did people fare who held precious metals? Better than others that had none?
I would assume precious metals held value when their currency did not. They would then trae their silver or gold for the currencys current value after the dust settled. Its not rocket science although many make it out to be. Its funny the more educated some folks are the more challenged they become with simplistic thought.



So you really don't know either........I hope that as not a jab, since you really do not know the answer either.


I do know.. I just dont want to tell you.

Figure it out for yourself. Gold and silver trade on major commodity markets. Their value isn't a secret.
Link Posted: 3/12/2011 4:49:33 AM EST

Originally Posted By Mojo_Jojo:

Originally Posted By protus:

Originally Posted By Execute_Method:

Originally Posted By Storm_Tracker:
I really find it fascinating that this isn't being discussed. More than 230 views.

Im wondering if it isn't of interest; which is confounding. Or possibly is to difficult for folks to grasp to chime in.

We can't read or write. The public education system has failed us.... YMMV



Actually, I've read FerFals write up before, I believe it was posted in the survival section of the forum. If I recall, there was a mix of people who thought it could not happen like that here, and others who analyzed it and saw that many of the factors could easily be applied here if things get really bad.


<snip>

Kinda like a rich person goes thru a cat 5 and a poor person goes thru a cat 5 hurricane . They both go through it but the rich person has a hell of time because they are not used to going with out....while the poor person adapts to the situation easier because they have been used to doing with less. While they both have gone through the same Cat 5 hurricane their perspectives of the event will be widely different.The rich person may be more vocal about his accounts because of how traumatic they were to him, while the poor person my not, and consider themselves lucky to have made it through. To those who haven't gone through a hurricane it is all the same in their eye , when in reality it is not.


<snip>

No offense, but this is class envy/warfare BS. Lots of "rich folks" have seen hard times. And just how many "poor" hood rats take the initiative to be self sufficient? Yeah, not many.



the point was that each person perceives an event in a different manner than the next person and those not involved in the event perceive it in a totally different light.

no offense taken as class/welfare bs wasnt my point nor my aim.

Link Posted: 3/12/2011 5:07:17 AM EST

Originally Posted By protus:

Originally Posted By Mojo_Jojo:

Originally Posted By protus:

Originally Posted By Execute_Method:

Originally Posted By Storm_Tracker:
I really find it fascinating that this isn't being discussed. More than 230 views.

Im wondering if it isn't of interest; which is confounding. Or possibly is to difficult for folks to grasp to chime in.

We can't read or write. The public education system has failed us.... YMMV



Actually, I've read FerFals write up before, I believe it was posted in the survival section of the forum. If I recall, there was a mix of people who thought it could not happen like that here, and others who analyzed it and saw that many of the factors could easily be applied here if things get really bad.


<snip>

Kinda like a rich person goes thru a cat 5 and a poor person goes thru a cat 5 hurricane . They both go through it but the rich person has a hell of time because they are not used to going with out....while the poor person adapts to the situation easier because they have been used to doing with less. While they both have gone through the same Cat 5 hurricane their perspectives of the event will be widely different.The rich person may be more vocal about his accounts because of how traumatic they were to him, while the poor person my not, and consider themselves lucky to have made it through. To those who haven't gone through a hurricane it is all the same in their eye , when in reality it is not.


<snip>

No offense, but this is class envy/warfare BS. Lots of "rich folks" have seen hard times. And just how many "poor" hood rats take the initiative to be self sufficient? Yeah, not many.



the point was that each person perceives an event in a different manner than the next person and those not involved in the event perceive it in a totally different light.

no offense taken as class/welfare bs wasnt my point nor my aim.


You mean poor folks in Appalachia didn't know about the great depression?
Link Posted: 3/12/2011 5:13:38 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/12/2011 5:17:17 AM EST by RRA_223]
Originally Posted By macman37:
Originally Posted By RRA_223:
Originally Posted By macman37:
I would measure anything FerFAL says against reality very closely and judge for myself what he says.

I do not think he is what he says he is.


In all the years I've surfed ARFCOM, this is the first I have ever heard relating to FerFal, his postings, and his experiences.


Perhaps you could expand on why you think this - examples and references would be helpful. His name carries considerable weight in the survival subforums.


Then you need to pay more attention. Yes there is a large group of sycophants who will swallow everything he has to say because there's no easy way to corroborate his story... But if you do a little digging, his story changes.

Others can fill the story in better than I. I just did a cursory search in my IMs and email and couldn't find the info I have been sent.

Basically: What he says often makes sense... But bear this in mind: he is trying to come off (and profit) as an authority on a subject he may or may not have even been present for.

I simply urge caution with anyone hitching their wagon to the Ferfal train. This subject (survival) is far too important for you or anyone else to become a follower of a guy who is only doing this for the fame. "Because Ferfal said it" is not going to cut it.


So I have to read 10 years of blogs, a book, and search all of ARFCOM for your posts to figure out if the guy has contradicted himself?


I read his initial "surviving the collapse" blog years ago - but admittedly I haven't kept current on his statements, nor do I have a T-shirt with his name on it. I'm not a FF Fanboy, but I am surprised to see your comments (and if there were true contradictions, why was it not a bigger deal?) I am also wondering if you are basing all of this off of your own personal interpretations or on "info" someone else IM'd you?


Are your complaints primarily over the possibility of him being a liar (ie he wasn't there) or do you feel he is giving bad (dangerous) advice?


I am surprised that trolls get outed, verbally abused and banned for practical jokes, faking their own on-line deaths and posting pictures of bikini-babes in GD... but - as you claim - potential liars selling fake stories and perpetuating dubious information under false pretenses getting a free pass seems odd.

But making such claims, and then telling me to go figure it out for myself because it's too much trouble to repost... seems odd too. Anyway, I suppose I'm relatively impartial either way: you're potentially slandering FerFal by providing no proof (much less cliff notes on what to look for); but I also understand that he wouldn't be the first guy on the internet to lie for fame or fortune if what you say is accurate.

Nonetheless, I appreciate your caution.




ETA: if you decide to respond to me in detail, or to be more specific in your claims, perhaps you could make a stand-alone thread in the SV for discussion? I'm assuming your previous SV-discussions were embedded in other threads and probably not easily found via the search function?
Link Posted: 3/12/2011 5:34:19 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/12/2011 5:36:37 AM EST by Badfish25]
Originally Posted By protus:

Originally Posted By RRA_223:
Originally Posted By macman37:
I would measure anything FerFAL says against reality very closely and judge for myself what he says.

I do not think he is what he says he is.


In all the years I've surfed ARFCOM, this is the first I have ever heard relating to FerFal, his postings, and his experiences.


Perhaps you could expand on why you think this - examples and references would be helpful. His name carries considerable weight in the survival subforums.

i got plenty My dislike for some of his views(opinions) is not hidden. Though starting an opinion war on "what if's " doesn't lead to much.

The best advice for anyone wanting "examples and references" is to follow what i said above.
Read his posting/blog entries since he 1st appeared over at FS..then form your opinion from that.
Ive followed him since i think it was late 04" or when ever his 1st write up on FS came out. Ive read his book twice.
Ive argued with him till we were both blue in the face...

only the reader who has read all of those can form an accurate opinion of the guy.










Even if he is not quite the guy people think he is I have still learned a lot from reading his blog, buy hey I try to learn something from every one, even people from southern Idaho.
Link Posted: 3/12/2011 5:58:30 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/12/2011 6:01:15 AM EST by RRA_223]
Originally Posted By Badfish25:

Even if he is not quite the guy people think he is I have still learned a lot from reading his blog, buy hey I try to learn something from every one, even people from southern Idaho.


The only thing(s) I've found so far relate to FerFal saying things that don't always correlate well to national newscasts, etc.

Which doesn't sound too far off: How many of us shake our heads at the nightly news, or by the watered-down BS that passes for national news coverage these days?

1. It could be that FF exaggerates (without realizing it), or is relaying word-of-mouth for information from his neighborhood, friends and family. Hey, if he's living through it, fear and stress can do that.
2. It could be that FF has a specific perspective, that others don't share (ie one guy lives in the bad part of town, another guy lives in the nice part of town = they see the same city very, very differently)
3. It could be that FF is a regular joe on the ground, and sees things differently than the "Official Response" regurgitated on national (moderated) news channels. Again, think about how you see the world versus what CNN says, or compared to Obama's latest State of the Union speech?
4. It could be that FF is a complete and total liar as well - but I'm guessing this is the least likely until more information is presented.
Link Posted: 3/12/2011 6:12:44 AM EST
Originally Posted By Storm_Tracker:

Originally Posted By AmericanPatriot1776:
Originally Posted By Storm_Tracker:

Originally Posted By AmericanPatriot1776:
Is the role of precious metals discussed at all? Were they held as value? How did people fare who held precious metals? Better than others that had none?
I would assume precious metals held value when their currency did not. They would then trae their silver or gold for the currencys current value after the dust settled. Its not rocket science although many make it out to be. Its funny the more educated some folks are the more challenged they become with simplistic thought.



So you really don't know either........I hope that as not a jab, since you really do not know the answer either.


I do know.. I just dont want to tell you.

Figure it out for yourself. Gold and silver trade on major commodity markets. Their value isn't a secret.


Can you do me a favor? Don't bother answering any more. It may not be a secret on the major commodity markets, but there are other factors involved? Just because someone might pay $1600 for an ounce of gold here in the US, does not mean they will when their country is going through major problems.

Can anyone offer an intelligent answer?

Has gold/silver transactions been restriced by the government thereby devaluing it and making it harder to use in transactions? Has the govt. confiscated precious metals? Have people relied on other local items / services to barter instead of gold and silver? Has it played only a minor roll in that countrys SHTF situation?

Thank you.

Link Posted: 3/12/2011 6:17:09 AM EST
Originally Posted By AmericanPatriot1776:
Is the role of precious metals discussed at all? Were they held as value? How did people fare who held precious metals? Better than others that had none?


I'm always cynical about precious metals. It seems to me that there is a knife edge where they have value but on either side they become either cumbersome or just as worthless as paper money.

But you ask a good question. In Argentina, the trappings of trade and civilization hadn't completely collapsed, so that could conceivably be the place where precious metals might have a role in commerce.
Link Posted: 3/12/2011 6:25:10 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/12/2011 6:34:53 AM EST by Dhampir]
I never understood the Argentina's "end of the world collapse". Everything I've viewed and read reminds me of NYC in the 70's/80's: bad economy = high crime rate and dilapidated neighborhoods. Not exactly SHTF like some have played-up the Argentina situation. Maybe I should get in on the profit with "Surviving NYC's Collapse"
Link Posted: 3/12/2011 7:28:57 AM EST

Originally Posted By Badfish25:
Originally Posted By protus:

Originally Posted By RRA_223:
Originally Posted By macman37:
I would measure anything FerFAL says against reality very closely and judge for myself what he says.

I do not think he is what he says he is.


In all the years I've surfed ARFCOM, this is the first I have ever heard relating to FerFal, his postings, and his experiences.


Perhaps you could expand on why you think this - examples and references would be helpful. His name carries considerable weight in the survival subforums.

i got plenty My dislike for some of his views(opinions) is not hidden. Though starting an opinion war on "what if's " doesn't lead to much.

The best advice for anyone wanting "examples and references" is to follow what i said above.
Read his posting/blog entries since he 1st appeared over at FS..then form your opinion from that.
Ive followed him since i think it was late 04" or when ever his 1st write up on FS came out. Ive read his book twice.
Ive argued with him till we were both blue in the face...

only the reader who has read all of those can form an accurate opinion of the guy.



Even if he is not quite the guy people think he is I have still learned a lot from reading his blog, buy hey I try to learn something from every one, even people from southern Idaho.


which is why i tell people to read his information and his book and form their own opinion. It is what i did and others as well.

those crazy guys from southern idaho kick ass imho

I look at it this way. Im one person. i may disagree with somethings and some people ,but if it motivates 1 person to prep then it helped.
Thats the sole reason why the southern idaho channel started. With all the crap i deal with for it, i look at my numbers and go well....outta that 1.4 million uploads there's got to be at least 100 people that started to prep and change their lifestyles. Thats 100 less people that will be dependent on the system if an event happens and 100 more people that can protect and provide for their families.............

honestly once you get out the basics of your physical needs( food,water,shelter),most "survival" talk is speculation and opinion on what could happen or not happen per whatever scenario is put on the discussion table.




Link Posted: 3/12/2011 8:04:01 AM EST
Originally Posted By Dhampir:
I never understood the Argentina's "end of the world collapse". Everything I've viewed and read reminds me of NYC in the 70's/80's: bad economy = high crime rate and dilapidated neighborhoods. Not exactly SHTF like some have played-up the Argentina situation. Maybe I should get in on the profit with "Surviving NYC's Collapse"


Probably why some people spent countless days arguing with one or two others (in the YASBYBIC threads) over the same thing: people define "collapse" differently. Some people here collapse and think Mad Max, Apocalypse, Armageddon, etc.

When, in fact, many others see an economic "collapse" as being a very real, very devastating event - but without the eating of flesh or fighting to the death in a metal cage with warlord midgets stealing your women. Remember, even the "Great Depression" remained civil, and we collectively rebounded very quickly. Germany post-WW2 was a mess, but life continued on. However the African continent has generally fared much worse over the same time period, so there is far more to it than just currency devaluation: culture, location, environment, timing, external forces/support - it gets complicated quickly. That's why so many people speak generally (because it's very hard to be precise).

From what I know of the Argentinian collapse, it goes beyond "a few bad neighborhoods" but yes, life goes on and people still try to work, eat and sleep; these things just become much more costly, more dangerous and more difficult. Measuring how significant these changes are is the hard part.
Link Posted: 3/12/2011 8:52:11 AM EST

Originally Posted By vintovka:


The reason that Surviving the Economic Collapse is not discussed more often


The book & the general topic have been discussed here quite often.
Link Posted: 3/12/2011 8:54:48 AM EST
this thread really bloomed after i went to bed, nice. I hadn't considered that FerFal might not be legit, but i read it all with an open mind, i mean, "1984" wasn't a documentary but i sure as hell take is seriously anyway. The climate differences in America was a good point, ive personally thought quite a bit about how hard it would be to live where i do through winters if electricity and fuel were scarce or non-existent. I agree that the Argentina scenario doesn't appear to be the all out end of the world scenario we fantasize about but it seems more likely to play out like it did. People still going to work because they'll still need money assuming they haven't lost their jobs, cops would possibly keep trying to uphold the law, maybe not though, a lot of cop hate in this country. I think it would take a massive population die-off from something to cause the kind of scenario's arfcom dreams of, not that there aren't possibilities. I'm gonna check out the other thread that was posted and make my way to the survival section, i really focus on guns too much and not enough on the practical things that will be just as, if not more important than having an ammo fort.
Link Posted: 3/12/2011 9:03:30 AM EST

Originally Posted By vxtip545:

i really focus on guns too much and not enough on the practical things that will be just as, if not more important than having an ammo fort.

SF is a great resource for that.
Link Posted: 3/12/2011 9:11:15 AM EST
Interesting read, especially the comments on weapon selections

Link Posted: 3/12/2011 10:45:30 AM EST
Originally Posted By protus:

Originally Posted By Badfish25:
Originally Posted By protus:

Originally Posted By RRA_223:
Originally Posted By macman37:
I would measure anything FerFAL says against reality very closely and judge for myself what he says.

I do not think he is what he says he is.


In all the years I've surfed ARFCOM, this is the first I have ever heard relating to FerFal, his postings, and his experiences.


Perhaps you could expand on why you think this - examples and references would be helpful. His name carries considerable weight in the survival subforums.

i got plenty My dislike for some of his views(opinions) is not hidden. Though starting an opinion war on "what if's " doesn't lead to much.

The best advice for anyone wanting "examples and references" is to follow what i said above.
Read his posting/blog entries since he 1st appeared over at FS..then form your opinion from that.
Ive followed him since i think it was late 04" or when ever his 1st write up on FS came out. Ive read his book twice.
Ive argued with him till we were both blue in the face...

only the reader who has read all of those can form an accurate opinion of the guy.










Even if he is not quite the guy people think he is I have still learned a lot from reading his blog, buy hey I try to learn something from every one, even people from southern Idaho.


which is why i tell people to read his information and his book and form their own opinion. It is what i did and others as well.

those crazy guys from southern idaho kick ass imho

I look at it this way. Im one person. i may disagree with somethings and some people ,but if it motivates 1 person to prep then it helped.
Thats the sole reason why the southern idaho channel started. With all the crap i deal with for it, i look at my numbers and go well....outta that 1.4 million uploads there's got to be at least 100 people that started to prep and change their lifestyles. Thats 100 less people that will be dependent on the system if an event happens and 100 more people that can protect and provide for their families.............

honestly once you get out the basics of your physical needs( food,water,shelter),most "survival" talk is speculation and opinion on what could happen or not happen per whatever scenario is put on the discussion table.







Well stated!
Link Posted: 3/12/2011 11:08:19 AM EST
Originally Posted By macman37:
Originally Posted By protus:

Originally Posted By Badfish25:
Originally Posted By protus:

Originally Posted By RRA_223:
Originally Posted By macman37:
I would measure anything FerFAL says against reality very closely and judge for myself what he says.

I do not think he is what he says he is.


In all the years I've surfed ARFCOM, this is the first I have ever heard relating to FerFal, his postings, and his experiences.


Perhaps you could expand on why you think this - examples and references would be helpful. His name carries considerable weight in the survival subforums.

i got plenty My dislike for some of his views(opinions) is not hidden. Though starting an opinion war on "what if's " doesn't lead to much.

The best advice for anyone wanting "examples and references" is to follow what i said above.
Read his posting/blog entries since he 1st appeared over at FS..then form your opinion from that.
Ive followed him since i think it was late 04" or when ever his 1st write up on FS came out. Ive read his book twice.
Ive argued with him till we were both blue in the face...

only the reader who has read all of those can form an accurate opinion of the guy.










Even if he is not quite the guy people think he is I have still learned a lot from reading his blog, buy hey I try to learn something from every one, even people from southern Idaho.


which is why i tell people to read his information and his book and form their own opinion. It is what i did and others as well.

those crazy guys from southern idaho kick ass imho

I look at it this way. Im one person. i may disagree with somethings and some people ,but if it motivates 1 person to prep then it helped.
Thats the sole reason why the southern idaho channel started. With all the crap i deal with for it, i look at my numbers and go well....outta that 1.4 million uploads there's got to be at least 100 people that started to prep and change their lifestyles. Thats 100 less people that will be dependent on the system if an event happens and 100 more people that can protect and provide for their families.............

honestly once you get out the basics of your physical needs( food,water,shelter),most "survival" talk is speculation and opinion on what could happen or not happen per whatever scenario is put on the discussion table.







Well stated!


I can't understand the FerFal hate you guys have going on over there in the SF. I don't see the need for the same gang to go shit in every one of his threads.
Link Posted: 3/12/2011 11:23:25 AM EST
Originally Posted By tyrex13:

I can't understand the FerFal hate you guys have going on over there in the SF. I don't see the need for the same gang to go shit in every one of his threads.


If you see the caution we're throwing out as crapping, you need to recalibrate a little. I would never mention anything about the guy if I didn't have serious concerns about his bona fides.

Just Google "Ferfal" and see what comes back. He's not just popular here. He's got a lot of people thinking he's an expert on the subject of survival, on a LOT of websites. He's written a book. He's branding himself as the guy who survived Argentina's collapse, and can help you, too!"

Read and enjoy Ferfal's stuff - I periodically do, myself. Some of it is sound. Just run it through the same hairy eyeball you ran my post through. Survival is one area you must be ruthlessly critical with your information sources.

I've said my piece.
Link Posted: 3/12/2011 11:38:37 AM EST
He's always comes across to me as a normal guy experiencing abnormal circumstances and providing an opinion. Anybody who takes the interwebz for gospel deserves the Darwin award. I have always appreciated his opinion and prospective and his posts have caused me to consider a lot of circumstances that I otherwise wouldn't have.
Link Posted: 3/12/2011 11:44:52 AM EST
Originally Posted By Dhampir:
I never understood the Argentina's "end of the world collapse". Everything I've viewed and read reminds me of NYC in the 70's/80's: bad economy = high crime rate and dilapidated neighborhoods. Not exactly SHTF like some have played-up the Argentina situation. Maybe I should get in on the profit with "Surviving NYC's Collapse"


I was in Argentina in the early part of 2001, and left just days before their currency collapsed. In a matter of weeks their currency devalued by a factor of 4. The NYC analogy falls flat because of the rate of collapse in Argentina.

I was oblivious to the whole thing. Hadn't a clue. But then again, I was in a very isolated region.

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