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Posted: 3/7/2006 8:16:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/7/2006 8:18:04 AM EDT by Mars511]
Well, everyone needs to read carefully this thread then PLEASE pass the information along.
.
Let us begin with the 7.62x39 Russian manufactured ammunition situation for 2006. Their is NO Issues with ANY Import Paperwork, Regulations, Customs Shipment clearing, nor any other shipping issues on this side of the Atlantic ! This is from the Importer SSI that imports Wolf brand and DKG who imports Brown Bear brand.

Anyone who wishes PLEASE feel free to copy and post this infor else where as long as its OK with the Frugal Admins.

What is a continuing problem on the Russian Docks is the Russian Mafia which on occasion brings delays.

The Russian Government Contracts were ALL Filled by Mid January 2006. Wolf and Brown Bear are up to FULL capacity production for their Civilian Contract commitments. However, Both have said that supply will NOT catch-up with demand until the END of 2006. Here is another BUT; If the Russian Government gets more opportunity to sell ammo to Iraq, Afganistan, China, or anyone else then production cuts will occur again. For now NO such opportunities appear on the horizon.

Prices Will NOT go back to $100 per 1000 round case however. This due to the well know cost increases in transportation.

Now for the Really BAD NEWS !

First - the 308 Surplus ammunition situation. The QUALITY Surplus like South African, Portugues, Radway Green, and Hirtenburger is about to Disappear for good. The Portugues is GONE except for what is in the pipeline. The same with Radway Green. As for the South African it will begin to run out starting in about July 2006 and then when its gone its GONE. Have you noticed the climb in price on these well it is going to get worse. The time is soon coming when ALL QUALITY 308 Surplus will be gone leaving ONLY such poor choices as India. Yes, ALL QUALITY 308 Gone by the end of 2007 but probably much MUCH sooner even with Price increases.

Second - the 5.56 surplus situation. Again the Quality Surplus is ALL but GONE NOW. What is in the pipeline is IT. Radway Green - get it while you can. South African is GONE except for what distributers and retailers have already.

So what will take the Quality low priced Surplus ammunition's place ? Well it WON'T be LOW Cost. This is in reference to 5.56 and 308. Look for Aguila to start exporting .223 / 5.56 to the US in the some what near future. Efforts are being made to convince the Aguila people and the Privy Partisan ( Yugoslave) sources to produce M193 Spec ammo and package it in plain brown cases for sale in the US. M193 Spec is vital to avoid the problems such as Backed-out primers and too long case necks with such brands as Olympic.

I said Cost would NOT be low. Well Aguila would run about .20 plush transportation cost per round to the Distributers OUCH ! The Privy Partisan would be the same.

Keep in mind that I did NOT say a shortage of 5.56 or 308 in general. I said QUALITY Brands and sources of Surplus will disappear. Indian etc. will be here but STAY Away from ANY Troublesome Brand. What the future of Military calibre ammo is can simply be put this way; Militay Surplus will DISAPPEAR Completely. ALL AMMO will be Civilian in type or if you prefer "De-Militarized" . Aguila has been told by distributers here in the US to use M193 specs but I am unsure if that includes Crimped Boxer type Primers. It will use Boxer primers for sure. Aguila produces ALL of the 5.56 ammo for the Mexican Government so they are NOT new to that calibre.

Both the Aguila and Privy Partisan people have been around for Decades even though the packaging and Brand names have in some cases changed over the years. The both produce decent quality ammo and there is NO reason to expect any change there. Privy Partisan has sold under the Brand name of HOTSHOT ammo.

For those who are interested, Privy Partisan produces the Wolf Gold Brand of ammo.


Speaking of Wolf ammo; the Steel case will cause accellerated Extractor wear especially for ARs and Mini 14s.

Well I will add anything I have forgotten later.



--------------------
information like fertilizer does NO good until you spread it

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nuts
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 8:20:39 AM EDT
Eegads. Looks like I should bite the bullet and buy another 2 cans of Port .308 soon.

$59/can is so dang much though.
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 8:21:01 AM EDT
Source???
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 8:22:08 AM EDT
that sucks so much......
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 8:23:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/7/2006 8:30:55 AM EDT by TheCynic]

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
Source???


Some random dude on Frugal Squirrel?


eta: Love the new avatar...I thought that I was the only person who found those commercials funny.
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 8:24:07 AM EDT
you failed to mention any of the really IMPORTANT calibers like 8mm, 7.62x54R etc.
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 8:27:01 AM EDT

Posts Per Day ::
0.04

Link Posted: 3/7/2006 8:27:29 AM EDT
So which price gauging asshole do you work for?
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 8:31:09 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 12:20:16 PM EDT
I find information by doing my own research. For any of you who wish to; I suggest you make the Long Distance phone calls yourself and ask the questions.

Call the Importers and Distributers who handle Military Surplus ammo that is imported.

As for Lake City Surplus: It too will suffer from the Immense consumption by our Military in the War Zones. It is ALL Demilled already anyway and NOT True Military Surplus. Do you know WHY? Because UNCLE SAMMY is going along with the UN's efforts to "...Stem the poliferation of Small Arms and Munitions from both Civilian and Military sources."

Read my UPDATE on March 8 th.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 12:27:05 PM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 12:29:37 PM EDT
Looks like WWB VP from Walmart will be all the better seller.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 12:33:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/8/2006 12:33:14 PM EDT by vanilla_gorilla]

Originally Posted By Mars511:



Speaking of Wolf ammo; the Steel case will cause accellerated Extractor wear especially for ARs and Mini 14s.





And......"POOF" there goes your credibility.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 12:37:31 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 12:38:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By vanilla_gorilla:

Originally Posted By Mars511:



Speaking of Wolf ammo; the Steel case will cause accellerated Extractor wear especially for ARs and Mini 14s.





And......"POOF" there goes your credibility.




+1 Steel case ammo has NOT caused any abnormal wear & tear in ANY of my rifles.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 12:40:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mars511:

The Russian Government Contracts were ALL Filled by Mid January 2006. Wolf and Brown Bear are up to FULL capacity production for their Civilian Contract commitments. However, Both have said that supply will NOT catch-up with demand until the END of 2006. Here is another BUT; If the Russian Government gets more opportunity to sell ammo to Iraq, Afganistan, China, or anyone else then production cuts will occur again. For now NO such opportunities appear on the horizon.



Dosen't China have it's own manufactuering facilities?
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 12:52:06 PM EDT
All good surplus ammo will disappear...blah, blah, blah. You forgot to mention that it will only be replaced by more surplus ammo on the market. You forget that producers of milspec ammo do it to make money, not government charity (in most countries of manufacture). So, you can expect surplus to show up some time in the future when their production catches up to their government demand, and then exceeds it. There is no reason for milspec ammo producers to cut back a production rate that gives them more efficient economies of scale just because they have met their government obligation. Therefore, they will sell the excess to the public, for more than they sell to the government, and surplus ammo will be available to the public again. At what price, that will be what the market dictates, but the product is here now and will be in the future.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 1:15:50 PM EDT
Who do you think pays more for ammo? Us or goverment contracts?
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 1:30:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/8/2006 1:31:39 PM EDT by blacklisted]
Hold on a second.

You say that Prvi Partisan should start making M193 spec ammo? Well, they already are. That's what Wolf Performance Ammunition is.

I'm confused.

I guess it must not be to spec.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 1:34:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By vanilla_gorilla:

Originally Posted By Mars511:



Speaking of Wolf ammo; the Steel case will cause accellerated Extractor wear especially for ARs and Mini 14s.





And......"POOF" there goes your credibility.



Yep.

Probably doesn't know any more about ammo availability than he does about steel case ammo.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 1:40:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/8/2006 1:41:26 PM EDT by DK-Prof]

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:

Originally Posted By vanilla_gorilla:

Originally Posted By Mars511:



Speaking of Wolf ammo; the Steel case will cause accellerated Extractor wear especially for ARs and Mini 14s.





And......"POOF" there goes your credibility.



Yep.

Probably doesn't know any more about ammo availability than he does about steel case ammo.



You guys are tough ... but fair.


Also, isn't this exactly how most urban legend chain emails start:


Originally Posted By Mars511:
Well, everyone needs to read carefully this thread then PLEASE pass the information along.



Link Posted: 3/8/2006 2:13:28 PM EDT
WOW. I better go stock up on that new Northern Pakistakaslovakian Tiger ammo i saw. I hear it has a case made of titanium and is self reloadable !!!!

What is it withthe new posters like this guy and the chinese dude? This place is becoming more and more like militaryphotos.net with people just tossing in these ridiculous info.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 2:17:56 PM EDT



Originally Posted By Mars511:

Well, everyone needs to read carefully this thread then PLEASE pass the information along.



Also note that today when the sun sets there will be no more sun light till the sun rises again. Please pass this important information along...



Link Posted: 3/8/2006 2:22:40 PM EDT
Like this ammo whorin' bunch needs an excuse to load up.


Link Posted: 3/8/2006 2:41:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By callgood:
Like this ammo whorin' bunch needs an excuse to load up.




Isn't that the truth?

I wonder how many people got halfway through that post before they headed to the EE for a quick scan of what was available. "No problem...I'll pay the shipping!"
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 3:01:35 PM EDT
Does anyone know if Q3131 is tied to military surplus or not?

Anyway, I figure that someone will come in to fill the void. Prices may go up some but ammo will be available.

Oh, and perhaps steel cased Wolf ammo will make my extractor wear out faster… Maybe I’ll have to replace it every 5,000 rounds instead of every 10,000 rounds or something. How much does an extractor cost again? Probably less than $10.00 would be my guess. And how hard is to replace one? Some people could do in 30 seconds, blindfolded. I’m not nearly that fast so it might take me all of a minute with my eyes open.

I’m not too worried about shooting Wolf.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 3:27:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Thuban:
Does anyone know if Q3131 is tied to military surplus or not?




I believe Winchester Q3131 are "seconds" of otherwise military grade Q3131A
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 3:40:34 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 3:41:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By vanilla_gorilla:

Originally Posted By Mars511:



Speaking of Wolf ammo; the Steel case will cause accellerated Extractor wear especially for ARs and Mini 14s.





And......"POOF" there goes your credibility.



He had credibility to begin with?
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 3:48:03 PM EDT
Every time you shoot steel cased ammo through an AR15 God kills a kitten....
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 3:52:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/8/2006 7:10:24 PM EDT by Gloftoe]

Originally Posted By Mars511:
Read my UPDATE on March 8 th.



Please don't personally insult people. I know you know better.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 3:56:14 PM EDT
No more .308 ever?





I've heard that 10 times about every popular surplus caliber, EVER, and guess what always happens? More turns up.

.308 is still in widespread use, goofball, it's not going to disappear from the surplus market. It's not obsolete, where there are only X number of storehouses who have sold to the importers and once that's depleted it's gone. It's being made RIGHT NOW, all over the world. Even if it's scarce for a while, it won't be forever.

I despise rumor mongering, and chicken-little fantasies....and I've been around the horn enough to know how small-minded such cries of panic really are.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 4:01:49 PM EDT
Who cares if it is true or not... it gives me another chance to buy buy buy.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 4:07:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 7:
Who cares if it is true or not... it gives me another chance to buy buy buy.




LOL!! It only takes the slightest little bit of justification for me..
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 4:08:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sWs2:
you failed to mention any of the really IMPORTANT calibers like 8mm, 7.62x54R etc.



Like 6.5x55, 7.5x55.

If it ever does start to dry up for real it will be a good excuse for a high volume loading press. After I load all I need I will have surplus, so I will help ya'll out!

Jim
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 4:13:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheFreepster:
So which price gauging asshole do you work for?



HAHA my thoughts exactly!!!

Guess it's time to buy more canned heat.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 6:44:04 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 6:48:04 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 6:59:20 PM EDT
Sadly, there is more surplus gone now, then new stuff appearing in the market. It'll still come in, but not in the amounts and not in the price range that every expects it should be.

Not to long ago lot's of different common ammo was as easy to find as .22. Not that easy anymore, and even cheapo ammo is not cheapo nor easy to find in many places.

I'll buy AE and the like along with reloaded stuff from ONE reloader who is a good friend. However, 5.56 193spec won't be everywhere and won't be cheap. If we get into another shooting war it will produce shortages as the companies are already running all out. It'll also freeze up some sell off surplus for a year or 2 "just in case".

UN WILL cause problems and you can bet they won't stop where they are now.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 7:03:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/8/2006 7:10:54 PM EDT by Gloftoe]

Originally Posted By C-4:

Originally Posted By Mars511:
Read my UPDATE on March 8 th.



re-post removed





PWND!
This guy is a .
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 7:06:19 PM EDT
that 308 is bad news!!! i want an M1A really bad, but ammo is going to render it into a display piece as soon as i buy it!
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 7:27:01 PM EDT
Who the fuck are you and why do you insist on spewing shit?
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 7:34:33 PM EDT
Well, I bought a case of SA .308 just now off AIM Surplus. I am buying it, wish I could afford more right now. Wish like hell I'd bought a shit load of the Hirt when that was available. Damn that shit is good ammo. Ammunitionstore wants $300/1000 now!!! And they are the only place I know that has any.
Should've also bought a crap load of Aussie.

In any event, I've been watchingthis go on for awhile and it ain't been looking good, AFAIC. At $154 for one case, no biggee. I'll shoot that and hang on to what little Hirt I have left as well as the case of Aussie and Port I've got.

Sitting okay for 5.56mm but wish I had more of the 7.62x39. More than most guys but never enough. I still picked up 2 cases of Ammoman's M855.
Shortage of 5.45 also.

Hell, even 9mm seems tougher to find right now.

My own opinion on it is that demand is drying it up more than anything. Alot of gun and ammo buying the past couple of years. And a war, etc. Probable that manufacturer's capacity has been outstripped by demand.

My advice to most of you is that when you get a chance to buy some quality milsurp at a fair price, that you do so.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 7:34:36 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 7:35:09 PM EDT
Everyone has very strong emotions about this, apparently.

All I know is I want M193, some 5.45, and some nato .308.... and I can't fking get it.

When I do see it, the prices are up. "Cheap" ammo is no longer "cheap."

I'll get whatever I can find... and the gun show this weekend looks like the best bet.


- BG
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 7:46:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/8/2006 7:49:14 PM EDT by Tromatic]

Originally Posted By Mars511:
Well I will add anything I have forgotten later.



Go ahead and buy Toilet Supporter or Privy Partisan, whatever. I'll just roll my own.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 7:57:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Tromatic:

Originally Posted By Mars511:
Well I will add anything I have forgotten later.



Go ahead and buy Toilet Supporter or Privy Partisan, whatever. I'll just roll my own.



If things continue as is that is going to be the answer for all of us.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 8:08:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GilaMonster:
You forgot to mention that it will only be replaced by more surplus ammo on the market.



No, no, no. The last batch of military ammo was made 10 years ago, after the last 10 years of peace and tranquility in the world there's no demand for fresh ammo, therefore no more surplus, ever.

Link Posted: 3/8/2006 8:10:00 PM EDT
Not Saying your are full of BS , so please take this in good spirit.

I can remember the days of M1 Garands that "were never to be seen again, they are all gone"

30-06 Surplus ball ? HA! you haveto find it at garage sales from old WW2 collectors of the 1950's

Mausers ? "all gone" they went out in the 1960's

Surplus 8mm ball ? Forget it ! all gone

7.62x54r and the Mosin Nagants ...dont get me started.

M1 carbines, Enfields, etc. etc.

Not to long ago an ad was run in shotgun news for a "cache of 1897 riot shotguns"

Persian mausers ? New in box ?

SKS and the rare 7.62x39 ammo ?

my favorites are "just found in back of warehouse" , "we forgot about them" , "last ones ever"

"once these are gone there will be no more!" "supplies are dwindling" ,

I do know that scrap metal dealers would try and obtain ammo for compent value , and I am sure there will always be an ebb and flo in suppply and demand. Not to mention the changes in political whims and various laws ........

Make your own calls and judgements ...........just my 2 cents
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 8:21:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Noname:


Originally Posted By Mars511:

Well, everyone needs to read carefully this thread then PLEASE pass the information along.



Also note that today when the sun sets there will be no more sun light till the sun rises again. Please pass this important information along...




Link Posted: 3/8/2006 8:40:33 PM EDT
Holy shit! "Peak ammo!" It's not junk science afterall!

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