Ed: I use Cell-Tech creatine by Muscle Tech and a multivitamin by Pure Encapulations. These two are my workout and energy lifesavers. When I really hit the gym hard, the Myoplex with a banana/frozen strawberries/Ovaltine chocolate malt comes into play. -White Horse

Lecithin - capsules 2 a day, one in the morning, one at night. Helps keep the mind sharp and makes the body a more efficient fat-burner. Fish Oil - does all kinds of good things for you. Omega-3's are good for muscle building, good for the heart and skin, reduces triglycerides. Vitamin E, Ester C, Milk Thistle (protects the liver). Occasionally the herb Gotu Kola is good to take for a good non-caffeine mental pick-up.

at one point in my life, I was a supplement freak, looking for the "easy way out." I did Creatine, Glucosamin, shark cartilage, protein shake, ephedrine, you name it, it was in my fridge/blender. Now I realize the more I sweat, the less I bleed. I take a multi vitamin, that's it.

Creatine- 5 grams after my workout Glutamine-5 grams after my workout Whey protien shake(chocolate only, the others are yucky!)-2-3 per day IMO, these are all proven and will work for most people in some effect. Creatine packs on 5 pounds rather quickly for me. I know a huge guy(270lb of muscle) that gains 30lbs when he goes on it. It depends a lot on how much you already have in your diet from meat products. But, you must DRINK WATER. I tried Arginine for awhile, did not see any results. I agree a good, balanced, natural diet is the real key. I don't eat nearly enough fruits and vegggies.[:D]

Thats my regimen. I don't do any supplements - I just eat anything that isn't nailed down (I'm pretty good about what I eat though - not a lot of junk) and drink milk by the gallon.

This WAS my daily supplemental schedule about a month ago, when the school gym was still open: Chromium - 75mcg x 2 Tonalin CLA - 1000mg x 2 Flaxseed Oil - 1000mg x 1 SciTec Creatine - 10000mg x 1 Designer Whey Protein, Cut with Skim Milk - 70gr x 2 The Chromium/CLA combination is killer for cutting down the body fat, and the protein is an obvious necessity for growth in mass. But ya know, I never did (or at least I don't think I did) get an increase in performance OR growth from Creatine. Chances are I was probably in my plateau phase of mass increase while I was taking it, and I never got out of it. Other people swear by it, so my results are more than likely sub-average.

Good stuff so far - lets talk about revin' up for the lift: (Understand you should consult your physician about this, if you do - he will tell you your an idiot for taking this.) Disclaimer aside here this is bar none the best legal way to get "lit up" for the gym: ECA stacks. E - Ephedra - find a place where you can buy straight Ephedra. Take one tab. C - Caffine - as in vivran (I always buy the house brand "Western Family" at Safeway - shit is all the same.) Take one tab. A - Asprin. I like two tabs some like one. You gotta take the asprin too - major headache if you don't. Take all three at once. Within 15 or so minutes you'll be wired. Fat burner drinks / hydroxicut / Xenodrine / all that doesn't compare. The best way to describe them vs. this is coke to crack. Commercial products are a sustained fire. This is an explosion. It will last for about 2.5 hours. If you are NOT in shape - understand you may blow a gasket and keel from this (you might if you are in good shape too). However, when I am in a power phase and wanna go big.... this is the ticket. YMMV - remember I am not telling you that this is safe.

1 regular multivitamin 2g Vitamin C 1 Vitamin E supplement 1 B-12 Complex supplement 1 Calcium Magnesium supplement 3 Tbsp Whole Honey indigenous to our region (for pollen allergies) 1/2oz sublingual liquid Yohimbine combo (Guarana, Saw Palmetto, Ginsing, etc...) I can tell you that I feel I have significantly less energy on days I skip the cocktail. The honey helps the sinuses. The yohimbe definately helps. I tend to take another 1/2oz about 1/2 hour before sex and it really makes a big difference. [;)]

EdSr: The creatine gives me actual strength. For example, I can do heavier weights by about 5 lbs. per rep when doing flys/upper body work. I can last much longer through my workouts and the aerobic work is an actual challenge instead of a chore. I still don't like aerobic as much as weights, but it makes it bearable. For example, I am able to climb 90-100 stories on a STEPmill in 20 mins. The stepmill is like a small escalator and is usually a very lonely machine at the Y where I work out. I have tried this without the creatine and thought I was going to collapse. I believe the creatine works by converting ADP back into ATP. Adenosin Di Phosphate, the by product of Adenison Tri Phospate. Any jocks in the know please forgive my very basic understanding. I just know that it works. You also need pharmaceutical grade sugar (sucrose?) in the creatine to get maximum 80% absorbtion. I feel like a goof trying to sound knowledgable about this. I just know what works for me. -White Horse "145 pounds of twisted steel and banana peel." {Edit} I like the peanut butter recipe, but I didn't want to gross anyone out. I like banana/pb combo the best. [red]edited[/red]to correct spelling (for our information--not to be a purist about it[:)] Also to add:ATP is how energy is used by the cells in the body.Without getting into biochemical details,ATP loses a phosphate(P) and releases energy for the cell to use,thus converting the ATP(which had 3 P) into ADP(Adenosin [b]di [/b]phostate) To replenish the ATP ,the body must attach a P to ADP by "spending" some energy.The "spent" energy to attach the P, will be released when the third P is released from ATP and used by the cell for whatever purpose is needed. [red]EA Sr [/red]

When staring Creatine, I feel almost immediately stronger during my workouts. Afterwards, my arms feel more pumped. I like it. Must tell you guys about a protein powder that was recently recommended to me: American Sports Nutrition "American Whey". Finally, a protein powder that tastes pretty good. Seriously--no chalky taste. It's expensive but can be purchased in 10 lb. buckets.

Glutamine, Creatine, & Whey protien works great for me.

I like Cytodyne and Methoxy-Pro, both made by Cytodyne Technologies. I have significantly more strength and endurance when I'm using these supplements.

Please see my post about Advocare. They offer products with some of the ingredients that you guys have mentioned in this thread. These products are used by the US Olympic wrestling team.

Hey Guys, hope you don't mind a newbie chiming in... I have been taking Creatine Serum since last October. Had tried the powdered Creatine for a couple of months before that. With the powder I experienced water weight gain (about 10 lbs), and I felt bloated. With the Serum, there isn't a loading phase, no maintenence, and no cycling. I take 5 ml of it through a dropper 10 minutes before my workout(either weights or running). No need to drink as much water either. Now, since I started my exercise program last September(after my divorce) I have gone from 398lbs to 318 as of Wednesday. Of course I have been on Weight Watchers too. In my workouts I notice that I feel more oxygenated than when I don't take the creatine. I don't have that fatigue that sets in after about 30 min. of weights, like I do when I don't take the creatine.....I like the stuff. It's made my Muscle Marketing USA....it's called ATP...hope this helps [8)]

Hi all, cool new forum I haven't been around in a while so...uh hey or something. Jew, Many would say that conventional wisdom dictates what you said about losing body fat and building muscle mass at the same time violates the laws of thermodynamics. Since muscle gain needs more calories in than burned and fat loss requires burning more calories than taken in (unless one is a complete newbie to lifting and if I remember correct you aren't) but.. I can vouch for this too it's like a damned magical potion or something. I've been on a somewhat light 4000cal/day or so bulk for 6 weeks now supplementing with CLA/chromium (flax oil too) and while I can actually SEE massive gains and throw up a whole lot more weight my body weight has only gone up 5 pounds and my belly has been doing a disappearing act since the start. I can't wait to see what hapens with this stuff when I cut. If any of you all have never supplement with fatty acids before, try it. It massively improves brain funtion as well as metabolic, you'll be thinking clearer after the first few days. You can get flax oil caps at wal mart for like five bucks. The cla is a bit expensive but there is an online store called "nutrition dome" don;t have the URL but they are about the cheapest at $17 a botlle of 100.

Ginseng extract. And yes it works!

A pot of coffee and a pack of cigarettes. I dont take anything and I eat what I want. I work out so I can do this and not balloon up huge. I dont ever intend to be Mr. Universe so its cool with me.

Mine was only 20 ng/dl the last time I had it measured years ago. You don't know low. I was tested as part of one of those "make $200 per month to participate in our study" things. The doc said that if I wasn't working-out my level wouldn't have been that high. If I could find a doctor that wasn't so terrified of the DEA, I could get something done about it. As far as I know, there's only one local endocrinologist, and he will not proscribe any sort of replacement therapy. Here's what I take: ECA (40mg, 250mg, 85mg, respectively) stack on days I work-out. I really don't suggest that much Ephedrine unless you are used to it. The first summer I used ECA stack and a very low carb diet, I lost 40 pounds. Also, Ephedrine really helps me with my breathing. I can't do 20-rep squats without taking something beforehand. Zinc (I'll admit) for no reason other than it seems to help. Boron for the same lame reason. Chromium, because I don't eat my veggies, so I'm probably deficient in it. Centrum multi-vitamin to cover the rest. One meal a day is 30 grams of Whey protein and a tuna sandwich. I used to take Yohimbe, but stopped because of cost. It really helped my blood flow, but some of you younger guys probably don't need help with that. When taking it and squatting, the veins in my legs used to look like they were hovering. The cost was bad, because most of the products that claim to contain it don't. The ones that do usually have such small quantities that you have to take a large number of pills. I found that it took ten tablets of one batch of Twin Lab's Yohimbe to equal the same effect that one did from another batch. I got tired of having to experiment and with the cost so I've since stopped. If I could find a good source for less than what a friend pays (he pays about $20 per dose from a VA hospital), then I'd start taking it again. I've tried Creatine four times, but I saw no gains. That's probably because I eat so much beef that I don't need any more.z

None. In the past 4 years I've put on over 20 lbs. of muscle. Now I weigh 162 at about 10% body fat. I'm shooting for 175lbs. at 10% body fat. Don't waste your money on supplements. Eat plenty of good food. Protein: beef, poultry, fish, eggs and milk. Carbs: potatoes(sweet potatoes are my favorite), rice, oatmeal, and whole grain bread. Fat: most Americans get more than enough, try to limit portions. Use the money you save to buy ammo!

I have taken creatine for limited amounts of time in the past and found it to be effective. Really I am too cheap to spend $ on much else. (or just to comfortable with my present condition)

It's not just calories... it's the kind of calories you take in... that's why you're seeing the results you're seeing. If I took in 1800 calories a day but they were all simple sugars I might maintain my weight but I would lose muscle tone and would probable gain it in body fat. Change that to high protein, moderate complex carbs and fats and avoidance of simple sugars and I will drop lbs a week without changing my workout schedule. Simple carbs can be used directly for energy. Carbs are also the easiest for the body to convert to fat (energy storage). In fact, FAT calories are harder for the body to convert to stored fat. Proteins are the most difficult for the body to convert to fat.... most of the time your body will pass unused protein as waste instead of store it as fat. You also need protein to build muscle. Sooooo... higher protein in the diet means development of muscle (which also burns more calories) and less retention of calories in the form of body fat. Again, the TYPE of calories, not just the NUMBER of calories. [:D] On the topic of supplements, I've used ephedra before and it does work but I don't like taxing my system like that. Plus it's not developing and maintaining good habits... it's a quick fix. I put weight back on after I went off of it. Now I try to watch what I eat, work out and drink a lot of water. I take a multivitamin a day and that's it. I will drink a protein shake now and then but usually because I am in too much of a hurry but I know I need to eat something.

What is the idea behind honey for allergies?

I just take a multi-vitamin. I eat mostly crap when it comes to food, though I've gotten much better over the last year. I figure if I can cover the vitamins with a pill, that's one less thing to worry about. I buy a huge bottle at COSTCO of the chewable kind. I've found the Flintstone ones to be more expensive than the generic animal ones, and they both have the same stuff [:D] Other than that, I really don't believe yet that much in pill for is going to make much difference for me. Ross