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Posted: 8/23/2017 8:22:26 PM EST


HOLLOMAN AIR FORCE BASE, N.M. (Aug. 1, 2017) A Embraer EMB 314 Super Tucano A-29 experimental aircraft flies over White Sands Missile Range.
The A-29 is participating in the U.S. Air Force Light Attack Experiment (OA-X), a series of trials to determine the feasibility of using light aircraft in attack roles.
(U.S. Air Force Photo by Ethan D. Wagner)

https://media.defense.gov/2017/Aug/18/2001794372/-1/-1/0/170801-F-ZZ999-085.JPG
To open a larger image click on link
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 8:24:47 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 8:26:06 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/23/2017 8:26:36 PM EST by doublecheez]
I like that Scorpion.

Pretty cool looking jet.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 8:27:30 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 8:29:23 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 8:32:08 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Nicely done.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 8:33:53 PM EST
So a low-flying low-speed prop aircraft flying combat missions.

Do they just not expect them to come back alive?
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 8:36:12 PM EST
Looks like a GBU-12. Nothing an MQ-9 can't do.

Where are the gun tapes?
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 8:36:59 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Well played sir.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 8:37:18 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By GreenBastard:
So a low-flying low-speed prop aircraft flying combat missions.

Do they just not expect them to come back alive?
View Quote
Single engine as well.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 8:38:57 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 8:39:03 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 8:39:28 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
My dad was a Spad pilot and I had the privilege to see them in action (Vietnam)so completely agree.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 8:41:49 PM EST
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Originally Posted By doublecheez:


Nicely done.
View Quote
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 8:42:27 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/23/2017 8:43:57 PM EST by AcidGambit]
I'm sure the AF will pick the jet powered one, because it's a jet.

You you imagine an A-1 with a modern engine and built out of modern materials? As big as that fucker is, it could be up there forever!
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 8:44:13 PM EST
If I had Bill Gates money, I'd buy one of those Scorpions for fun. 
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 8:44:42 PM EST
If the planes work as well as the video's voice synthesizer . . . WE'RE ALL FOOKED! I'd like to see the specs for all four. How fast can each get on station? How long can they loiter? What's the max payload? Are they anywhere near as hardened as the A-10?

So, the video says that John McCain authorized the budget. Personally?
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 8:46:02 PM EST
In before Sylvan.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 8:47:10 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AcidGambit:
I'm sure the AF will pick the jet powered one, because it's a jet.

You you imagine an A-1 with a modern engine and built out of modern materials? As big as that fucker is, it could be up there forever!
View Quote
Well, it has at least one easily noticed and legitimate advantage.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 8:47:16 PM EST
Sounds interesting and all, but why would we invest in sending a real pilot down range when we could do much more with a UAV? (unmanned aircraft)
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 8:54:48 PM EST
Being prior ordnance I would recommend that bird carry thermobaric or cluster munitions, the "once and done" LGB Skipper package is poor use of payload, a fast mover could do that and much better.

A-6 + Skipper

*BOOM*

Link Posted: 8/23/2017 8:56:01 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 4thUSMC:


My dad was a Spad pilot and I had the privilege to see them in action (Vietnam)so completely agree.
View Quote
Nice.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 9:00:31 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 9:01:43 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
now that is a picture


love it
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 9:02:38 PM EST
I like sleek sexy stealth fighters and attack craft.

In the majority of operations we have been involved in over the last 20 years, a low cost, long loiter time ac would have worked great.

Even fighting NK, they will do a fine job of cleanup after all the major SAM and AA systems have been cleaned up.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 9:04:58 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
What are those pods on the AT-6? 40mm?
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 9:05:58 PM EST
Looks like the paper bomb we used in, Operation: Clear and present danger. Is it?
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 9:09:09 PM EST
Update.

Outboard .338 mini-guns.

Nacelle 20mm cannon.

Assorted Hate on hardpoints.

Fast as hell even in WW2.

2 engines.



Link Posted: 8/23/2017 9:10:56 PM EST
My only issue with these CAS and COIN planes is lack of payload capacity. The thing should be able to carry 2-4 1000lb bombs, all kinds of rockets, 20 or 30mm vulcan or maybe 4x.50cals.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 9:13:12 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/23/2017 9:15:16 PM EST by AzzFaceKillah]
Nm. Read it as .303's, carry on. Substitute 20 mil for a 40mm chaingun though.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 9:13:48 PM EST
Lol, Glorified crop duster.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 9:14:26 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AzzFaceKillah:
WTF are you on about? 6X.50 machine guns, 1X20mm hispano cannon.
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Originally Posted By AzzFaceKillah:
Originally Posted By feudist:
Update.

Outboard .338 mini-guns.

Nacelle 20mm cannon.

Assorted Hate on hardpoints.

Fast as hell even in WW2.

2 engines.



https://i.ytimg.com/vi/WCapVFcVR1o/maxresdefault.jpg
WTF are you on about? 6X.50 machine guns, 1X20mm hispano cannon.
I'm modernizing it. 
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 9:15:51 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By feudist:
I'm modernizing it. 
View Quote
Pologies.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 9:19:08 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By GreenBastard:
So a low-flying low-speed prop aircraft flying combat missions.

Do they just not expect them to come back alive?
View Quote
You mean like helicopters?
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 9:22:45 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AzzFaceKillah:
Looks like the paper bomb we used in, Operation: Clear and present danger. Is it?
View Quote
Sort of. Clancy's bomb was a paper cased GBU.

That's a steel cased unit.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 9:26:55 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Brian252:
Sounds interesting and all, but why would we invest in sending a real pilot down range when we could do much more with a UAV? (unmanned aircraft)
View Quote
Signals like that cut a hole in the sky that even Iran hacked.

These aircraft allow pilots to gain experience for $500-$3000 per flight hour (instead of $15-30,000), and saves our high value aircraft for other missions.  While giving peripheral vision that no UAV/RPV will ever match.  At a meaningful distance to the ground.  With less lag for danger close sorties.  While being able to allow for FAC duties if necessary due to eyes on.  While supposedly having less thermal heat signature for MANPADS.

So yeah.  Goat fuckers can hack a UAV/RPV data stream, on an aircraft with lag, that has bad peripheral vision, that flies high enough to remove the "close" from CAS.  And if you're lucky, your enemy will be dumber than the Iranians who managed to take over an RQ-170.

Theres roles for UAV/RPV.  CAS isn't one of them.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 9:29:31 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By feudist:
Update.

Outboard .338 mini-guns.

Nacelle 20mm cannon.

Assorted Hate on hardpoints.

Fast as hell even in WW2.

2 engines.



https://i.ytimg.com/vi/WCapVFcVR1o/maxresdefault.jpg
View Quote
I like your style sir.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 9:30:19 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By GreenBastard:
So a low-flying low-speed prop aircraft flying combat missions.

Do they just not expect them to come back alive?
View Quote
Depends on the roles they are filling. Force on force in a contested environment they would be slaughtered, but they would be a God send in the current conflicts. Having something like that available when I was deployed would have been amazing. Fly from unimproved runways. Low maintenance. Responsive and cheap to operate. In the current theaters they really only have to fly above small arms range to be safe(ish ) and they can easily provide support from those altitudes. Not much use when racing to the fulda gap, but a hell of a lot more cost efficient way of blowing up guys wearing bedsheets and wiping their ass with their hands.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 9:30:55 PM EST
No Bronco, no care
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 9:38:01 PM EST
That's gonna be a fun job for somebody.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 9:52:18 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Seven-Shooter:
Signals like that cut a hole in the sky that even Iran hacked.

These aircraft allow pilots to gain experience for $500-$3000 per flight hour (instead of $15-30,000), and saves our high value aircraft for other missions.  While giving peripheral vision that no UAV/RPV will ever match.  At a meaningful distance to the ground.  With less lag for danger close sorties.  While being able to allow for FAC duties if necessary due to eyes on.  While supposedly having less thermal heat signature for MANPADS.

So yeah.  Goat fuckers can hack a UAV/RPV data stream, on an aircraft with lag, that has bad peripheral vision, that flies high enough to remove the "close" from CAS.  And if you're lucky, your enemy will be dumber than the Iranians who managed to take over an RQ-170.

Theres roles for UAV/RPV.  CAS isn't one of them.
View Quote
Curious if you would elaborate on your experiences with goat fuckers hacking the CDL and KU band.

Also curious if you would elaborate on your experiences with the "lag" inherent in RPA operations and how that impacts "danger close sorties".
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 9:54:31 PM EST
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Originally Posted By MaChu:
No Bronco, no care
View Quote
And they are fun to jump from, too.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 10:03:54 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Troutman84:


Curious if you would elaborate on your experiences with goat fuckers hacking the CDL and KU band.

Also curious if you would elaborate on your experiences with the "lag" inherent in RPA operations and how that impacts "danger close sorties".
View Quote
Personally?  None.  People I know and respect who have served several tours overseas and all they got was seething rage against the VA, and other people who have worked in the aircraft development side of things?  Lots.  Both sets of people know way more things about all of the above than I could ever hope to relay, and both sides have very similar arguments against a UAV/RPA solution to any CAS role.

But I'll admit, the dude who had to use a cane to walk around for a while due to what sounded vaguely like a mishap between his unit and a UAV/RPA in theater somehow?  He might be a little biased.  
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 10:06:28 PM EST
The B-24 is already standardized and doesn't need the approval BS.
Just order a couple of hundred and carpet bomb grid squares.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 10:09:28 PM EST
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That plane delivers wood







so does this one
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 10:10:31 PM EST
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Originally Posted By doublecheez:
I like that Scorpion.

Pretty cool looking jet.
View Quote
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 10:17:01 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/23/2017 10:20:02 PM EST by DeltaElite777]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By GreenBastard:
So a low-flying low-speed prop aircraft flying combat missions.

Do they just not expect them to come back alive?
View Quote
And yet attack helicopters fly even lower and slower and manage to fly CAS and live to tell the tale....

USAF is dangerously close to making a good decision... that particular bomb is too big, but it's a start.

Leave the useless guns off, ditch the twin-engined jet entrant, and get down to business.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 10:23:55 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Seven-Shooter:
, that flies high enough to remove the "close" from CAS.
View Quote
Close in CAS refers to the proximity of the troops to the enemy, not the altitude of the aircraft providing said support. More you know and all
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 10:27:55 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DeltaElite777:


And yet attack helicopters fly even lower and slower and manage to fly CAS and live to tell the tale....

USAF is dangerously close to making a good decision... that particular bomb is too big, but it's a start.

Leave the useless guns off, ditch the twin-engined jet entrant, and get down to business.
View Quote
The A-10 though it's everyone's favorite has sidelined these light COIN types many times. People don't see the A-10 community as being an obstacle but...
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 10:30:19 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Seven-Shooter:
Personally?  None.  People I know and respect who have served several tours overseas and all they got was seething rage against the VA, and other people who have worked in the aircraft development side of things?  Lots.  Both sets of people know way more things about all of the above than I could ever hope to relay, and both sides have very similar arguments against a UAV/RPA solution to any CAS role.

But I'll admit, the dude who had to use a cane to walk around for a while due to what sounded vaguely like a mishap between his unit and a UAV/RPA in theater somehow?  He might be a little biased.  
View Quote
Fair enough. Suffice it to say, our datalinks are pretty secure. Some "goat fucker" isn't going to fire up his laptop and hi-jack my MQ-9.

There is also a "lag" when operating on our satellite links. Never once has it been a limiting factor in any tactical situation that I'm aware of.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 10:44:19 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/23/2017 10:46:47 PM EST by KA3B]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
So how many are Douglas going to crank out for the program?
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