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Posted: 8/16/2004 2:50:00 AM EST
http://www.jointogether.org/gv/news/summaries/reader/0,2061,574118,00.html

News Summaries

Suicides Plague Shooting Ranges
8/12/2004
Shooting ranges are attractive to suicidal individuals, in part because
renting a firearm is easier and less expensive than buying one, the Toledo
Blade
<http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040810/NEWS03/40810
0349/-1/NEWS> reported Aug. 10.

There are few regulations regarding background checks or a shooter's history
on a gun range. As a result, suicide shooters can rent a firearm at a range
and avoid the federal waiting period necessary when purchasing a gun.

"It's a matter of how much do we police it? We limit the accessibility to
our range to those who can demonstrate the ability to handle firearms
safely," said Jim Fletcher, general manager at Toledo Trap and Skeet in
Ohio.

Fletcher said his staff asks customers about their experience with guns. But
if they begin inquiring about a person's background, they would only be
relying on the customer's truthfulness.

Dr. Douglas Jacobs, an associate clinical professor of psychiatry at Harvard
Medical School in Massachusetts, said it would be difficult for staff
members at firing ranges to recognize a suicidal plan.

"If suicidal persons can do it in a hospital, they can do it on a firing
range," said Jacobs. "Firing-range staff are not clinicians and they're not
expected to be."

Rick Patterson, executive director of the National Association of Shooting
Ranges, said it would be impossible and even dangerous to prevent suicides
on firing ranges. Generally, Patterson said, the person shows no unusual
signs or behavior.

"It's quite the opposite," he said, noting that suicidal individuals are
usually calm and relaxed. "What the psychologists have told us is that these
people have made their decision. And the psychologists have told us, if you
try to interfere, go into harm's way, you've created an unsafe situation."

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Link Posted: 8/16/2004 2:52:38 AM EST
Now, if they ask to buy just one bullet....
Link Posted: 8/16/2004 2:54:33 AM EST
Federal waiting period? Someone forgot to tell Ohio. I've never experienced a wait.
Link Posted: 8/16/2004 2:56:43 AM EST
How often does this really happen?

I mean, for chrissakes you can kill yourself painlessly just by running your car in an enclosed space for a while. Only an attention whore goes to a public place to off themself.
Link Posted: 8/16/2004 3:07:51 AM EST
Here in Californistan they can beat a TEN-day wait.

It's happened once each at the indoor ranges I use. New range rules (as of a couple of years ago) say no rentals to new customers who show up alone.
Link Posted: 8/16/2004 3:08:39 AM EST

Originally Posted By Gunslinger808:
Now, if they ask to buy just one bullet....



LMAO
Link Posted: 8/16/2004 3:09:14 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/16/2004 3:12:55 AM EST
Thinning of the herds....it's a good thing...
Link Posted: 8/16/2004 3:17:31 AM EST
Some ranges will not rent you one if you're alone or dont already have a firearm, I think its a good policy on their part.

I remember reading at least one story about a jackass that was running a tab and shot himself. Why couldnt the guy have just put it on his credit card or something?

If I ran a range and someone shot themself there, I'd strongly consider suing the estate to get back what it cost to clean the place.

Kharn
Link Posted: 8/16/2004 3:24:10 AM EST
Why can't people write a note or something leaving their guns to me after they shoot themselves?
Link Posted: 8/16/2004 3:52:56 AM EST
"As a result, suicide shooters can rent a firearm at a range
and avoid the federal waiting period necessary when purchasing a gun."

As usual, the "experts" don't know what they are writing about.

If they make mistakes about the things you know about, why should you believe the rest of their BS?

Throughout my life I have seen "news in the making" a number of times, and later, seeing it reported in the papers or tv, wondered where the hell the reported got his info, and if he was talking about the same even. Even the simplist thing will be "spun". Even innocuous events are used only because the reporter is able to think of a funny title.

You have to respect a suicide that rents at the range. To do it at home is a tremendous FU to the family. Family memebers traumatized much worse by the mess, and later, every time they walk in the room no matter how well cleaned. Possibly the family members would be investigated for murder and wrongly convicted, it happens.

This might sound cold, but look at it from the suicides point of view. Only a real @$$hole would say, "Hey, Honey, look at this!" (BANG!)
Link Posted: 8/16/2004 4:02:00 AM EST

Originally Posted By RELOADER-BOB:
Shooting ranges are attractive to suicidal individuals, in part because
renting a firearm is easier and less expensive than buying one, the Toledo




Who cares how expensive it is? You're going to be dead before the bill comes in anyway, right?

Wierd.

Link Posted: 8/16/2004 4:22:29 AM EST
I heard "Rental Gun Suicide" was big in Japan too.

I feel so sorry for the range workers. One of the members here was working at a local range in Aurora when a girl shot herself.
Link Posted: 8/16/2004 4:28:55 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/16/2004 2:28:52 PM EST
There were four suicides at the range I use in a short period of time.

The policy for non members is to purchase a membership and return the following day to use it if renting a firearm.

The owner got tired of cleaning up the mess.
Link Posted: 8/16/2004 2:32:02 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/16/2004 2:33:28 PM EST by MMcCall]

Originally Posted By Paul:
There were a rash of these up in the Seattle area about five or six years ago. In response some of the ranges stopped renting firearms to people coming in alone.



Wade's had at least two while I was up there, and one that I know of at WSI. Nasty stuff. The main local indoor range here has the "can't rent if you didn't bring your own" rule.. makes more sense than not renting to solo shooters. I go alone most of the time.

What pisses me off about this article is how the media will take a serious issue like gun suicide and come down on the complete wrong, uninformed side of it. No one seems to want to dig for the deeper issues anymore.
Link Posted: 8/16/2004 2:35:16 PM EST

Originally Posted By 0ldGuy:
There were four suicides at the range I use in a short period of time.

The policy for non members is to purchase a membership and return the following day to use it if renting a firearm.

The owner got tired of cleaning up the mess.



Bullet Hole in OP by chance?
Link Posted: 8/16/2004 2:38:11 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/16/2004 2:38:30 PM EST
whats a waiting period? I guess a security clearence is good for something. it takes longer to dial the number than it does to get the ok he's good
Link Posted: 8/16/2004 2:42:29 PM EST
its good for the gene pool...maybe Feinswine will take note's
Link Posted: 8/16/2004 2:42:42 PM EST

Originally Posted By CAMPYBOB:
a few years ago, a friend's brother flung himself off a 250+ foot bridge in akron, ohio.

i guess we should ban bridges?

as jcknife stated...'WHAT' waiting period???



What bridge the High level between Cuy Falls and Akron or the Y-Bridge or what other one would he have used?
Link Posted: 8/16/2004 2:42:46 PM EST
One happened here in Cleveland a few years ago. The person came on the line, started acting really strange, everyone cleared out and then the person deep sixed themselves.
Link Posted: 8/16/2004 3:44:43 PM EST
Is there a group rental discount if everyone in the party offs themselves.
Link Posted: 8/16/2004 4:00:50 PM EST



Shooting ranges are attractive to suicidal individuals, in part because
renting a firearm is easier and less expensive than buying one, the Toledo




How much do you want to bet that, thanks to these idiots making a big deal out of it, we're gonna have a sudden increase in occurances? Kinda like the black talon deal....tell everyone how effective it is, and suddenly people start listening.
Link Posted: 8/16/2004 4:03:39 PM EST
It happened in Memphis last year while my buddy was at the range. I didn't know it was so common though. How about the one at Walmart? I believe he went with a 12 guage and his own shell.
One of my Army roommates father was a cop and shot himself with his service pistol in the living room while everybody was eating dinner. What a dick..
Link Posted: 8/16/2004 4:08:51 PM EST
humm i do not even get a backgound check. oh wait I have a chl ;)
Link Posted: 8/16/2004 4:27:16 PM EST
A young guy killed himself here at a skeet shoot one year on the range with his dad's gun, the day before the shoot. I can't imagine what his head looked like with the 12gauge.
Link Posted: 8/16/2004 5:05:27 PM EST
My old indoor range closed in 2003, but they had 3 or 4 suicides there since they opened. When I go there, I usually tease my friend, and tell 'em, can I rent a 44mg Desert Eagle and 1 round? We get a chuckle out of it.
Link Posted: 8/16/2004 6:19:47 PM EST

Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
How often does this really happen?

I mean, for chrissakes you can kill yourself painlessly just by running your car in an enclosed space for a while. Only an attention whore goes to a public place to off themself.



We've had several here in southeastern Virginia at commerical indoor ranges. I've never heard of a suicide at either of the clubs that I'm a member of though. Possibley a more stable type of shooter?
Link Posted: 8/16/2004 6:53:35 PM EST
Friend of mine ran an appliance parts house next door to a shooting range that had I THINK 3 or 4 suicides. So my friend dared me to go next door and ask to rent one gun and one bullet.

problem was that now it was starting to cost the gun range a lot of money, First they have to close down the range for a day or so, loss of income, THEN they have to pay for a clean up crew. he paid out of his own pocket.

Last I heard that he was so fed up with all the losses he was going to sue the family for EVERYTHING!

Can you see the Hallmark now??

Sorry to bother you,
In this time of distress.
But send me the cash,
TO CLEAN UP THIS MESS!
Link Posted: 8/16/2004 7:13:10 PM EST
Sorry to quote a National Lampoons movie.... but...

'I only have $5 left."


"Buy a bullet and rent a gun"


- BUCC_Guy


- Its so much more funny in my head.
Link Posted: 8/16/2004 7:34:20 PM EST
It sounds like somebody wants to shut down shooting ranges and make renting guns illegal.

ARH
Link Posted: 8/16/2004 7:51:51 PM EST

Originally Posted By A_Free_Man:
You have to respect a suicide that rents at the range. To do it at home is a tremendous FU to the family. Family memebers traumatized much worse by the mess, and later, every time they walk in the room no matter how well cleaned. Possibly the family members would be investigated for murder and wrongly convicted, it happens.

This might sound cold, but look at it from the suicides point of view. Only a real @$$hole would say, "Hey, Honey, look at this!" (BANG!)




Oh yeah. It's so much better to do it in front of complete strangers who have no idea who that person is or why they would even want to do something like that. So much better to do it in someone's place of business; someone who's trying to make a living and has to close down in order to take care of some weak-minded schlub's last gasp.
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 5:35:19 AM EST
At the range that I used to have we didn't rent guns for exactly this reason. Not only do you have the suicide liability, but you also face the family after the event wanting to sue the range for renting the gun to their mentally unballanced family member. It's not their idiot ______ (fill in blank; son daughter husband, etc.)'s fault that they're dead, it's the range owners fault for renting them the gun.

We were perfectly content in providing a place for firearms owners to shoot their firearms. If MacDonalds can get sued because their coffee is too hot (like coffee isn't supposed to be hot), then what should gun ranges expect when they rent guns to anybody off the street?

Personal responsibility is no longer required...just ask the parasitic trial lawyers that would make a vampire envious with their ability to suck their victums dry.
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 5:47:27 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 5:51:05 AM EST
Jeez, they better ban access to tall buildings too.
Link Posted: 8/17/2004 5:54:02 AM EST

Originally Posted By Kharn:

If I ran a range and someone shot themself there, I'd strongly consider suing the estate to get back what it cost to clean the place.

Kharn



Hell, if it was me I'd just bury the guy out behind the berms and forget the whole incident.
Link Posted: 8/18/2004 3:11:30 AM EST

Originally Posted By Gunslinger808:
Now, if they ask to buy just one bullet....



had a guy try that once!
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 6:36:44 PM EST

Originally Posted By A_Free_Man:
"
You have to respect a suicide that rents at the range. To do it at home is a tremendous FU to the family. Family memebers traumatized much worse by the mess, and later, every time they walk in the room no matter how well cleaned. Possibly the family members would be investigated for murder and wrongly convicted, it happens.

This might sound cold, but look at it from the suicides point of view. Only a real @$$hole would say, "Hey, Honey, look at this!" (BANG!)



There was an elderly couple locally a few years ago that went behind their garage and
comitted murder/suicide. They left a note saying they didn't want to "mess" up the house for their children. She had Cancer.
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