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Posted: 9/10/2013 6:42:07 PM EST
I just got done with 3 hrs of ConEd to maintain my EMT-b. Tonight's 3 hrs were on pediatric emergencies. It was all very basic and nothing even remotely interesting was covered. There were about a dozen of us there, all rural people 30 minutes away from small hospitals and at least that from ALS (helo rescue).

If your kids have a problem that is serious you need to be able to manage that shit yourself. Most of the EMTs that were in this class were idiots. They were indecisive, uneducated and not capable of dealing with any type of stressful situation. Your kid will be at a severe disadvantage when Molly the 285# secretary at the quick stop shows up to try and unfuck your kid's situation.

Here's one of the scenarios we were presented with....

8 yr old boy hits a curb on his bicycle, lands on his bike and one of the handlebars is embedded in his chest 3-4 inches. Pulse is 105, respirations are 25 and BP is 125/80. Skin is warm, pale and moist. Pt is alert and responsive. Everyone agreed that we needed ALS, but the main question half these idiots wanted to discuss was how we were going to get the whole fucking bike on the helicopter. This discussion lasted for 5 minutes until I couldn't take it anymore and asked why we wouldn't take the one screw out that would release the bars.

It's fucking crazy. You people need to go out and get some basic first aid and trauma training. Please. Your chances of dealing with decent rescue people in rural areas is probably 1 in 4 or 5.

This really doesn't apply to people with access to Paramedics and people that do this all day long. Although it would never hurt to be able to take care of yourself.

That is all. Carry on.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 6:49:16 PM EST
Damn, remind me to go to medical school first before I go out in the country!
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 6:59:31 PM EST
Interesting.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 7:13:23 PM EST
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Originally Posted By helmutlent:
Interesting.
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It's true.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 7:13:58 PM EST
Doesn't the fire rig have a saws all on board?
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 7:19:27 PM EST
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Originally Posted By alphabavo:
Doesn't the fire rig have a saws all on board?
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Like a regular sawzall? You're going to take a sawzall to somethjng embedded in a chest? I'm with Stutz, remove the screw, its way less traumatic.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 7:19:38 PM EST
Stutz, as a new father out in the panhandle this has become nagging fear for me lately. Any recommended training?
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 7:30:26 PM EST
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Originally Posted By ScaryBlackGuns:
Stutz, as a new father out in the panhandle this has become nagging fear for me lately. Any recommended training?
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The only reason I'm an EMT is because I have kids. First responder training is good, but the EMT thing is a commitment. Take every trauma class you can and study up on medical situations that you may encounter. If your kid has asthma or is diabetic or allergic to bees or..........It goes on and on. The good news is that once you are able to deal with a couple situations you are fairly stable on most of them. It's always the simple things.

Don't get me wrong, there are good people on every squad. But you know how it is out here, you have only a small few that are on a squad and if the good people are gone to ball games or out of the area or drunk or whatever...You're pretty much screwed.

You're obviously not a dumbass, so get some training and you'll be light years ahead.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 7:32:20 PM EST
How the fuck did the handlebar get embedded 3-4" into the kid's chest?! Did it not have the little rubber grips covering the tube? I can't imagine how that would happen.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 7:35:49 PM EST
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Originally Posted By twitch1706:
How the fuck did the handlebar get embedded 3-4" into the kid's chest?! Did it not have the little rubber grips covering the tube? I can't imagine how that would happen.
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I think its hypothetical. It could just as easy be part of a fence, or a sharp stick, or construction debris or some shit.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 7:36:07 PM EST
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Originally Posted By twitch1706:
How the fuck did the handlebar get embedded 3-4" into the kid's chest?! Did it not have the little rubber grips covering the tube? I can't imagine how that would happen.
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I have no idea. It was a stupid scenario, but one that is possible. It would have been more realistic if they had a piece of plywood stacked up on 4 tires, one of the kids jumped it and the board broke. The kid went over the bars, landed on his face, knocked out his front teeth,, broke his nose and his left arm is bent at a completely hilarious angle between the wrist and the elbow.


And he's walking around while his buddies video him with their phones. Thankfully the old lady that lives down the street called it in because they stole the plywood from her back shed.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 7:37:11 PM EST
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Originally Posted By twitch1706:
How the fuck did the handlebar get embedded 3-4" into the kid's chest?! Did it not have the little rubber grips covering the tube? I can't imagine how that would happen.
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I want to see the video of this.


But +1 to go get trained. I did the EMT-B schooling, but my license expired because my job prevented me getting on a squad. I really should do the refresher this winter.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 7:39:12 PM EST
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Originally Posted By stutzcattle:


I have no idea. It was a stupid scenario, but one that is possible. It would have been more realistic if they had a piece of plywood stacked up on 4 tires, one of the kids jumped it and the board broke. The kid went over the bars, landed on his face, knocked out his front teeth,, broke his nose and his left arm is bent at a completely hilarious angle between the wrist and the elbow.


And he's walking around while his buddies video him with their phones. Thankfully the old lady that lives down the street called it in because they stole the plywood from her back shed.
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Originally Posted By stutzcattle:
Originally Posted By twitch1706:
How the fuck did the handlebar get embedded 3-4" into the kid's chest?! Did it not have the little rubber grips covering the tube? I can't imagine how that would happen.


I have no idea. It was a stupid scenario, but one that is possible. It would have been more realistic if they had a piece of plywood stacked up on 4 tires, one of the kids jumped it and the board broke. The kid went over the bars, landed on his face, knocked out his front teeth,, broke his nose and his left arm is bent at a completely hilarious angle between the wrist and the elbow.


And he's walking around while his buddies video him with their phones. Thankfully the old lady that lives down the street called it in because they stole the plywood from her back shed.


That doesn't sound like a hypothetical. lol
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 7:39:41 PM EST
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Originally Posted By iwouldntknow:

I want to see the video of this.


But +1 to go get trained. I did the EMT-B schooling, but my license expired because my job prevented me getting on a squad. I really should do the refresher this winter.
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Originally Posted By iwouldntknow:
Originally Posted By twitch1706:
How the fuck did the handlebar get embedded 3-4" into the kid's chest?! Did it not have the little rubber grips covering the tube? I can't imagine how that would happen.

I want to see the video of this.


But +1 to go get trained. I did the EMT-B schooling, but my license expired because my job prevented me getting on a squad. I really should do the refresher this winter.


Don't start the refresher before the end of the year. Start it after the the new year. Otherwise you'll be required to get your 20 hrs of ConEd this year to maintain your quals with the new state regs. A fat lady told us this tonight.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 7:42:12 PM EST
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Originally Posted By mp9fan:


That doesn't sound like a hypothetical. lol
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Originally Posted By mp9fan:
Originally Posted By stutzcattle:
Originally Posted By twitch1706:
How the fuck did the handlebar get embedded 3-4" into the kid's chest?! Did it not have the little rubber grips covering the tube? I can't imagine how that would happen.


I have no idea. It was a stupid scenario, but one that is possible. It would have been more realistic if they had a piece of plywood stacked up on 4 tires, one of the kids jumped it and the board broke. The kid went over the bars, landed on his face, knocked out his front teeth,, broke his nose and his left arm is bent at a completely hilarious angle between the wrist and the elbow.


And he's walking around while his buddies video him with their phones. Thankfully the old lady that lives down the street called it in because they stole the plywood from her back shed.


That doesn't sound like a hypothetical. lol


With the exception of the phones and the old lady.....I have very intimate knowledge of this scenario. I was 13 when I did it. My buddies walked me the three blocks back to one of their houses so we could call my mom......we lived 10 miles out of town.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 7:45:21 PM EST
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Originally Posted By stutzcattle:


Don't start the refresher before the end of the year. Start it after the the new year. Otherwise you'll be required to get your 20 hrs of ConEd this year to maintain your quals with the new state regs. A fat lady told us this tonight.
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Originally Posted By stutzcattle:
Originally Posted By iwouldntknow:
Originally Posted By twitch1706:
How the fuck did the handlebar get embedded 3-4" into the kid's chest?! Did it not have the little rubber grips covering the tube? I can't imagine how that would happen.

I want to see the video of this.


But +1 to go get trained. I did the EMT-B schooling, but my license expired because my job prevented me getting on a squad. I really should do the refresher this winter.


Don't start the refresher before the end of the year. Start it after the the new year. Otherwise you'll be required to get your 20 hrs of ConEd this year to maintain your quals with the new state regs. A fat lady told us this tonight.

Thanks for the heads up.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 7:47:44 PM EST
I recert EMT with the fire department, and there are always a lot of guys that only get it as a technicality. Even desk jockeys and battalion chiefs need a current cert.

Great curriculum, but someone with the cert does not automatically know what they are doing or have any experience.

Link Posted: 9/10/2013 7:48:57 PM EST
I got my EMT and trauma management training in probably the most difficult place you could ever get it.

The theater in my mind is a continuous nightmare of what could go wrong, especially with kids around, and especially in traffic. I think about overhead falling objects in garages and stores, reckless drivers, and any articulating objects in my environment as crush, puncture, avulsive, electrical, thermal, and blunt force mechanisms of injury.

I run through my head what I will do to avoid these mechanisms, and what to do if someone less observant than me is injured by them.

Scene safety first-I'm not rushing into an existing dangerous environment. How to make the scene safe? Can I even do that? With traffic and electrical and thermal or fall mechanisms, there isn't much you can do.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 7:57:01 PM EST
On the lines of getting some training, how does CERT(community emergency response team) training stack up?
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 7:57:28 PM EST
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Originally Posted By stutzcattle:


With the exception of the phones and the old lady.....I have very intimate knowledge of this scenario. I was 13 when I did it. My buddies walked me the three blocks back to one of their houses so we could call my mom......we lived 10 miles out of town.
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Originally Posted By stutzcattle:
Originally Posted By mp9fan:
Originally Posted By stutzcattle:
Originally Posted By twitch1706:
How the fuck did the handlebar get embedded 3-4" into the kid's chest?! Did it not have the little rubber grips covering the tube? I can't imagine how that would happen.


I have no idea. It was a stupid scenario, but one that is possible. It would have been more realistic if they had a piece of plywood stacked up on 4 tires, one of the kids jumped it and the board broke. The kid went over the bars, landed on his face, knocked out his front teeth,, broke his nose and his left arm is bent at a completely hilarious angle between the wrist and the elbow.


And he's walking around while his buddies video him with their phones. Thankfully the old lady that lives down the street called it in because they stole the plywood from her back shed.


That doesn't sound like a hypothetical. lol


With the exception of the phones and the old lady.....I have very intimate knowledge of this scenario. I was 13 when I did it. My buddies walked me the three blocks back to one of their houses so we could call my mom......we lived 10 miles out of town.

So THAT's the real reason why you took up the medical profession you did!
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 8:04:13 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Saladman:

So THAT's the real reason why you took up the medical profession you did!
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Originally Posted By Saladman:
Originally Posted By stutzcattle:
Originally Posted By mp9fan:
Originally Posted By stutzcattle:
Originally Posted By twitch1706:
How the fuck did the handlebar get embedded 3-4" into the kid's chest?! Did it not have the little rubber grips covering the tube? I can't imagine how that would happen.


I have no idea. It was a stupid scenario, but one that is possible. It would have been more realistic if they had a piece of plywood stacked up on 4 tires, one of the kids jumped it and the board broke. The kid went over the bars, landed on his face, knocked out his front teeth,, broke his nose and his left arm is bent at a completely hilarious angle between the wrist and the elbow.


And he's walking around while his buddies video him with their phones. Thankfully the old lady that lives down the street called it in because they stole the plywood from her back shed.


That doesn't sound like a hypothetical. lol


With the exception of the phones and the old lady.....I have very intimate knowledge of this scenario. I was 13 when I did it. My buddies walked me the three blocks back to one of their houses so we could call my mom......we lived 10 miles out of town.

So THAT's the real reason why you took up the medical profession you did!


Oh yeah, I'm just like a doctor. Well, without the compassion and the brains and the fancy shoes and the ability to actually keep you alive. Once you're at the hospital, I consider it a win.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 8:05:46 PM EST
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Originally Posted By stutzcattle:
Oh yeah, I'm just like a doctor. Well, without the compassion and the brains and the fancy shoes and the ability to actually keep you alive. Once you're at the hospital, I consider it a win.
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Breathing/heartbeat at the hospital=EMT did their job.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 8:09:16 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Avid:
On the lines of getting some training, how does CERT(community emergency response team) training stack up?
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Not the same thing.

And I'm with Stutz on this as a medic that provides ALS to the surrounding BLS services. I realize professionalism isn't just a paycheck, but there is something to be said for volume and acuity. In my area, high call volume areas are staffed by paid personnel. In the more rural areas, paid per call or volunteers are who will show up at your door.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 8:14:30 PM EST
People in this country have been trained by their society to not think anymore.

Smart kids were a treasure until two generations ago, then something changed...

It was no longer "cool" to be smart.

We are now reaping that harvest in a big way.
I know a lot of industrial systems engineers all over the country (pretty smart guys and gals) and they complain about it too.
I see it all day long.

This is our shit America. We should be ashamed of what we have eaten.

Link Posted: 9/10/2013 8:30:00 PM EST
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Originally Posted By PugglePod9000:
People in this country have been trained by their society to not think anymore.

Smart kids were a treasure until two generations ago, then something changed...

It was no longer "cool" to be smart.

We are now reaping that harvest in a big way.
I know a lot of industrial systems engineers all over the country (pretty smart guys and gals) and they complain about it too.
I see it all day long.

This is our shit America. We should be ashamed of what we have eaten.

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It's not that so much as it's the wrong people being convinced that they are the heroes.

And they are convinced.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 8:33:34 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 8:36:13 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 8:47:57 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/10/2013 8:59:52 PM EST by SIRIUS1]
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Originally Posted By loco_engineer:


I think its hypothetical. It could just as easy be part of a fence, or a sharp stick, or construction debris or some shit.
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Originally Posted By loco_engineer:
Originally Posted By twitch1706:
How the fuck did the handlebar get embedded 3-4" into the kid's chest?! Did it not have the little rubber grips covering the tube? I can't imagine how that would happen.


I think its hypothetical. It could just as easy be part of a fence, or a sharp stick, or construction debris or some shit.



It happens even with the grips, the forces of gravity and inertia are a motherfucker.


I once met a guy who fell of a four foot tall stepladder in a hallway and slid down the opposing wall with his back until broom handle that was leaning against the wall impaled his armpit and exited above and in front of his shoulder.


Stutz,, I've seen the kind of ineptitude you described played out many times, people owe it to themselves to become more knowledgeable and capable in regard to handling dangerous situations and trauma.




Link Posted: 9/10/2013 9:07:36 PM EST
1. Jaws of life
2. Cut handlebar
3. ???
4. Profit!
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 9:08:45 PM EST
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Originally Posted By SIRIUS1:



It happens even with the grips, the forces of gravity and inertia are a motherfucker.


I once met a guy who fell of a four foot tall stepladder in a hallway and slid down the opposing wall with his back until broom handle that was leaning against the wall impaled his armpit and exited above and in front of his shoulder.

Stutz,, I've seen the kind of ineptitude you described played out many times, people owe it to themselves to become more knowledgeable and capable in regard to handling dangerous situations and trauma.
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Originally Posted By SIRIUS1:
Originally Posted By loco_engineer:
Originally Posted By twitch1706:
How the fuck did the handlebar get embedded 3-4" into the kid's chest?! Did it not have the little rubber grips covering the tube? I can't imagine how that would happen.


I think its hypothetical. It could just as easy be part of a fence, or a sharp stick, or construction debris or some shit.



It happens even with the grips, the forces of gravity and inertia are a motherfucker.


I once met a guy who fell of a four foot tall stepladder in a hallway and slid down the opposing wall with his back until broom handle that was leaning against the wall impaled his armpit and exited above and in front of his shoulder.

Stutz,, I've seen the kind of ineptitude you described played out many times, people owe it to themselves to become more knowledgeable and capable in regard to handling dangerous situations and trauma.



Link Posted: 9/10/2013 9:10:50 PM EST
Ok cattleman what's the best training a medical retard can take to learn properly?
Link Posted: 9/11/2013 4:53:09 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Sheddy:
Ok cattleman what's the best training a medical retard can take to learn properly?
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Basic first aid and any trauma training you can get. I can't tell you what you need to take, I can only tell you that you need to take some.
Link Posted: 9/11/2013 5:06:06 AM EST
True story here...

About a year ago some high school kids were out driving around drinking and ran off the road and hit a tree. The girl that was driving died at the scene because they couldn't figure out how to get the brake pedal which had gone through her lower leg removed.

The next time you go out to get in your car or truck, lean down and take a look at the brake pedal. Now look at your calf.

The OP's scenario was kinda weird but not that far off. Usually when you get hurt out in the country, it's something weird.

Another thing to think about. You get hurt, and you get yourself unfucked from the situation, you take yourself into town to get fixed up. Sometimes in these small towns the medical help available isn't all that great. I know from my personal experience, if it happens on a holiday weekend, you're fucked.
Link Posted: 9/11/2013 11:42:24 AM EST
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Originally Posted By 338winmag:
True story here...

About a year ago some high school kids were out driving around drinking and ran off the road and hit a tree. The girl that was driving died at the scene because they couldn't figure out how to get the brake pedal which had gone through her lower leg removed.

The next time you go out to get in your car or truck, lean down and take a look at the brake pedal. Now look at your calf.

The OP's scenario was kinda weird but not that far off. Usually when you get hurt out in the country, it's something weird.

Another thing to think about. You get hurt, and you get yourself unfucked from the situation, you take yourself into town to get fixed up. Sometimes in these small towns the medical help available isn't all that great. I know from my personal experience, if it happens on a holiday weekend, you're fucked.
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They should have called the helicopter and used the jaws. Half these guys when you ask them what time it is, they try and tell you how to build a fucking watch.
Link Posted: 9/11/2013 4:24:24 PM EST
Bump for those that need it.
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