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Posted: 4/30/2009 6:21:16 PM EDT
I just talked to a guy looking for ammo and we got to talking about guns. Said I had an AR blah blah blah. Well he asked about my accuracy. I said I built it for CQC and only shoot it at 25 yards. Then he proceeds to tell my that the shorter the barrel the better the accuracy. He said 12" AR's are more accurate than 20" heavy barrels .

He then said that the military uses .223 and not 5.56 because of the muzzle flash. Then he started talking about how he has a gas plug that somebody gave him to switch to full auto.

He chewed my ear off for a few minutes but I stopped paying attention.
Link Posted: 4/30/2009 6:23:20 PM EDT
[#1]
Janet Reno?


eta: you did say some guy...
Link Posted: 4/30/2009 6:24:08 PM EDT
[#2]
'Nother gun shop commando story eh?

I need to hang out in gun shops a little longer from now on, I would LOVE these convos.
Link Posted: 4/30/2009 6:24:56 PM EDT
[#3]
I refuse to engage in conversation with people like this......
Link Posted: 4/30/2009 6:24:57 PM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
'Nother gun shop commando story eh?

I need to hang out in gun shops a little longer from now on, I would LOVE these convos.


No it was one of my GF's relatives
Link Posted: 4/30/2009 6:28:32 PM EDT
[#5]
Barrel length has little to do with accuracy.  Shorter barrels can be more accurate.

He fails after that.
Link Posted: 4/30/2009 6:30:36 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
I refuse to engage in conversation with people like this......


Not even worth the time. These jackasses are always the type that will never listen to someone who actually knows what the hell they're talking about.
Link Posted: 4/30/2009 6:34:06 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
Barrel length has little to do with accuracy.  Shorter barrels can be more accurate.

He fails after that.


He said he shoots at 1000 yards with a 12" upper and hits bulls eyes.


I mentioned SBR stamp and he said "a what" I said "the tax stamp to have a short barrel rifle" he replied "oh the special permit, yeah I got one of those"
Link Posted: 4/30/2009 6:44:03 PM EDT
[#8]
I couldn't have taken it.   I'd have just said "Look, two kinds of people piss me off:  Ignorant people, and liars.

Now, you're pissing me off with your obvious lack of any real knowledge about the AR platform, so tell me,

WHICH ARE YOU?  Ignorant or a liar?  Or are you both?"



I know a guy who kind of says the same sort of things about ARs but in his case, he's just not familar with

what the parts are called,  even though he's a former M1A1 Abrams driver.   I guess tank drivers don't

spend a lot of time with an M16 when they're toting a 120mm smoothbore around.





CJ


Link Posted: 4/30/2009 6:50:47 PM EDT
[#9]
I didn't want to be rude to the GF's uncle. If it was just some guy I wouldn't have even bothered with him.
Link Posted: 4/30/2009 6:53:41 PM EDT
[#10]
Good luck with that gas plug idea......
Link Posted: 4/30/2009 6:55:02 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Barrel length has little to do with accuracy.  Shorter barrels can be more accurate.

He fails after that.


He said he shoots at 1000 yards with a 12" upper and hits bulls eyes.


I mentioned SBR stamp and he said "a what" I said "the tax stamp to have a short barrel rifle" he replied "oh the special permit, yeah I got one of those"


That would have gotten him the ole' GTFO.
Link Posted: 4/30/2009 6:55:41 PM EDT
[#12]
So an AR only works out to 25 yards?

That's pistol range for goodness sake!

Link Posted: 4/30/2009 6:55:48 PM EDT
[#13]
shorter barrels are more accurate, but only if you have the shoulder thing that goes up
Link Posted: 4/30/2009 6:57:31 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
So an AR only works out to 25 yards?
That's pistol range for goodness sake!



That's just all I shoot mine at. I don't even have any sights yet. I'm working with a Tasco red dot for now.
Link Posted: 4/30/2009 6:58:08 PM EDT
[#15]
There is some truth to the shorter barrel argument. Most true Benchrest rigs are 16"s due to a shorter barrel being inherently stiffer and retaining accuracy longer.
Link Posted: 4/30/2009 6:59:02 PM EDT
[#16]
yeah jackasses like that!  I have one at work.  This 24 year old, tells us he has four cop buddies who gave him a "few" full auto AR's and MP 5's.  Dipshits like this piss me off, they directly feed the medias full auto gun crap!
Link Posted: 4/30/2009 7:01:00 PM EDT
[#17]
I hear if you keep tightening the grip screw you can get it to fire 3 round burst.
Link Posted: 4/30/2009 7:03:45 PM EDT
[#18]
Well to be fair, I have heard/expirienced that shorter barrels can be more accurate. i have notice that my 16in AR tends to be slightly more accurate than my 20in with certain ammo, but that isn't really a fair comparison. They were setup differently at the time, so my expirience is wholely annecdotal so I guess it isnt really worth much. I have heard that shorter barrels can be more accurate in some applications. Something to do with increased rigidity, but I dunno i may be mistaken. I doubt this guy is reffering to this situation, as you make it sound like he is FOS given his other commets.

I often get myself into trouble calling people out on BS like this. Some people take it as a personal insult when you tell them they are wrong/making shit up. I corrected someone one time who was making horse shit comments about an automotive project I ws working on. He would parrot what i just said and then try to add something, but what he was saying would make no sense. I called him on it and his solution was to challenge me to a fist fight. Ya that would have sure shown us who was right.
Link Posted: 4/30/2009 7:44:19 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
There is some truth to the shorter barrel argument. Most true Benchrest rigs are 16"s due to a shorter barrel being inherently stiffer and retaining accuracy longer.


So how much do you lose in the tradeoff with having a shorter sight radius, something that negatively affects accuracy??

Link Posted: 5/1/2009 5:40:56 AM EDT
[#20]
If  you have a 'scope, the sight radius isn't an issue.  Just velocity.



CJ
Link Posted: 5/1/2009 6:10:34 AM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
Quoted:
There is some truth to the shorter barrel argument. Most true Benchrest rigs are 16"s due to a shorter barrel being inherently stiffer and retaining accuracy longer.


So how much do you lose in the tradeoff with having a shorter sight radius, something that negatively affects accuracy??



the barrel is as accurate as the barrel is. a shorter sight radius, which makes you shoot more poorly, doesn't change the accuracy of the barrel.

getting back on topic though, i work-out in this little meat-locker of a gym. i love the place, and the few folks that lift there. i also love that everyone is a "gun nut" there; it is not uncommon for most of the folks to be open carrying pistols, and for several rifles to be leaning against the wall at any given time. the only "problem" is that none of them are really all that informed about the real goings-on WRT gun legislation, and as a result i find myself engaged in these types of converstaions regularly. luckily, they are all eager to find the truth, and actually listen when i tell them what's up (i spend a lot of time, as many of us do, watching and tracking legislation). but i can't tell you how many times i've found everyone there in a panic about "the new additives they've put in gunpowder so that it goes bad after 6 months so you can't stockpile it" or how "all ammo will have to be serialized and you will have to turn in your old stuff."

Link Posted: 5/1/2009 6:12:59 AM EDT
[#22]
Link Posted: 5/1/2009 6:20:55 AM EDT
[#23]
I had somebody tell me (last night) that a .50 cal black powder musket (no rifling) will take down a black bear, guaranteed, every time, one shot.

This was their way, strangely, of arguing that a subsonic .45 ACP was all one needed to defend from a black bear attack, and there was no reason to carry a rifle or heavy revolver (say, .454 casull) in areas where black bears are common.


Link Posted: 5/1/2009 6:21:18 AM EDT
[#24]
There's this one guy I know(knew) that was one of those rambling drunks.

"I kin killz you fram a MILE away wit mah 22!  A MILE. Yeeeah.  My DAD taught me how becaz hee waz a sniper in teh COAST GUARD!!!!!!  A 22.  My dad TAUGHT ME HOW!"

He only talked about 5 different things that had 8 different phrases each, but he would talk until he passed out.  When talking about him killing you from a mile away with a .22 he would bring his arms up like he was holding a rifle and go, "BLAMMBB" and rock back like he had just fired a 25mm cannon off his shoulder.

Link Posted: 5/1/2009 6:22:42 AM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
Good luck with that gas plug idea......


Yeah I would have responded with the standard "I file the firing pin down to get full auto".
Link Posted: 5/1/2009 6:23:33 AM EDT
[#26]
you should tell him to buy a dremel and flute the barrel
Link Posted: 5/1/2009 6:35:43 AM EDT
[#27]
I don't think I've ever spoken to another customer at a gunshop.  Ever.

Link Posted: 5/1/2009 6:35:59 AM EDT
[#28]
A guy i know is like that complete liar and loves to spout off about things he knows nothing about, he said one time he had papers from being in the Marine Corps that allowed him to buy a fully automatic M-16 from them anytime he wanted... needless to say that sparked a bit of a debate about tax stamps and from 4s as well as post 86 machine guns.... he had no clue...
Link Posted: 5/1/2009 6:46:31 AM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
I just talked to a guy looking for ammo and we got to talking about guns. Said I had an AR blah blah blah. Well he asked about my accuracy. I said I built it for CQC and only shoot it at 25 yards. Then he proceeds to tell my that the shorter the barrel the better the accuracy. He said 12" AR's are more accurate than 20" heavy barrels .


Actually, that is true. A shorter barrel will be more accurate for seeral reasons. One is that the shorter the barrel, the fewer the imperfections the bullet will encounter as it travels through it, so the bullet will have a better shape upon exit and thus fly truer. The other reason is vibration. The longer the barrel, the greater the tip will wiggle when vibrating. Shorter barrels are stiffer and will vibrate with a higherf freq, but less amplitude due to stiffness.

The reason that we use longer barrels is terminal velocity and sight radius. The longer barrels give us higher MV, and allow for a longer sight radius which helps us shoot better. With a dot sight you have an essentially infinately long sight radius, so that becomes a moot point, but it is important with irons.

Link Posted: 5/1/2009 6:48:38 AM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
Quoted:
There is some truth to the shorter barrel argument. Most true Benchrest rigs are 16"s due to a shorter barrel being inherently stiffer and retaining accuracy longer.


So how much do you lose in the tradeoff with having a shorter sight radius, something that negatively affects accuracy??



Optics.

Probably.
Link Posted: 5/1/2009 6:57:34 AM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
I just talked to a guy looking for ammo and we got to talking about guns. Said I had an AR blah blah blah. Well he asked about my accuracy. I said I built it for CQC and only shoot it at 25 yards. Then he proceeds to tell my that the shorter the barrel the better the accuracy. He said 12" AR's are more accurate than 20" heavy barrels .

He then said that the military uses .223 and not 5.56 because of the muzzle flash. Then he started talking about how he has a gas plug that somebody gave him to switch to full auto.

He chewed my ear off for a few minutes but I stopped paying attention.


Don't you love it when people give their expert opinion on guns... A guy at a gun store told me that you could shoot a guy with a .45 in the thumb and it would spin him around, send him flying back five feet, and probably rip is lower arm off. It was all I could do to keep from laughing.

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