Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Site Notices
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 4/3/2006 12:17:36 PM EDT
Which is the better way to go..

Brain dump or studying the books? Testing software..
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 12:31:04 PM EDT
This is AR-15.com…

So do both.

You need the real knowledge. You won’t be doing yourself any favors by pretending to know stuff you don’t in the long run. IT people get to know other IT people and if you get a reputation for knowing your shit the jobs will come your way. If you get a reputation of being full of shit then no one’s going to want anything to do with you.

So study the real books and get as much real world experience as possible.

But then go to the braindump sites and study them too if that’s what you want to do. Apparently that’s what most other people do too. I didn’t personally use them when I was testing but I wouldn’t fault anyone for doing so, assuming they know their shit anyway… But then if you know your shit you don’t really need the braindump stuff.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 12:37:50 PM EDT
See this is the thing.. I have been an only net admin for a satellite location of the parent company(6 years). I have my Net+. But the regional Director wants me MCSE certed by EOY. I work daily with Win 2k3 server, AD, multiple domains, hell desk and anything else they can think of. Im looking over the first book 70-290, and it seems to be more review than anything...
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 12:38:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Thuban:
This is AR-15.com…

So do both.

You need the real knowledge. You won’t be doing yourself any favors by pretending to know stuff you don’t in the long run. IT people get to know other IT people and if you get a reputation for knowing your shit the jobs will come your way. If you get a reputation of being full of shit then no one’s going to want anything to do with you.

So study the real books and get as much real world experience as possible.

But then go to the braindump sites and study them too if that’s what you want to do. Apparently that’s what most other people do too. I didn’t personally use them when I was testing but I wouldn’t fault anyone for doing so, assuming they know their shit anyway… But then if you know your shit you don’t really need the braindump stuff.



I agree. I've never taken it, but I don't think its something you want to pass the test on, then not know anything. I'd hate to get a job because I had a certification, and not know any of it.
Good luck on the test though!
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 12:44:17 PM EDT
As someone who just (luckly) retired out of Information Systems after 30 years... MCSE is nice.. to go along with your BS or Masters in Information Systems or Computer Science.. that's what it takes in today's market..

To get an interview in the Information Systems Dept. in the company I just retired out of you need at least a Masters Degree.. I'm guessing it's that way in most other fortune 500 companies also...

To answer your question... Study the books.. just in case you are actually called upon to know something about the subject at work...
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 12:46:14 PM EDT
A BS or MS in computer sci!! Oh crap!!
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 1:03:14 PM EDT
Then do this…

Read the braindump sites for a review. If you don’t know the answer to some of the questions then hit the books until you do.

In your case you are just trying to get a cert on paper to make the boss happy. He already knows what you know and what you don’t so you aren’t using fraud to get a job you aren’t qualified for.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 1:56:44 PM EDT
When I completed the MCSE in '98 the Transcenders were the shit. The Exam Cram books used to be pretty good too. I don't know what the current cool tools are.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 2:00:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Fat_McNasty:
A BS or MS in computer sci!! Oh crap!!



No judgement on you or your abilities, but a lot of companies got burned hiring MSCE, ABCD, etc types during the .com boom late nineties..

Big companies are very selective now, at least mine is.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 2:05:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/3/2006 2:08:27 PM EDT by Sub-MOA]

Originally Posted By Fat_McNasty:
Which is the better way to go..

Brain dump or studying the books? Testing software..



Get a system with an ass pot of ram... Like 4 gigs. Set up VMware on it. Install 3 or 4 AD DC VMs and maybe 6 client VMs.

Get the MS press books and do them.

A week before you go to take your first test DL several Boson tests and use them for review.

QED, should take you about 4-6 months.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 2:17:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/3/2006 2:24:24 PM EDT by Duffy]
Real world experiences have little to do with these dumb exams, they're academic, and I dare say other than a piece of paper that says you've passed it and you feeling great about it, its worth is dimished by those that excel at taking and passing tests but are utterly worthless in a produciton network, it was so in the late 90s and remains thus.

To give you an example, in 1998 I studied the books tailored for the Exchange exam, read half of it, looked at brain dump questions, and passed the Exchange test. My real world experience came a little later (read: I had little experience when I took the test), I did not find any of the academic crap they wanted me to memorize helpful in resolving real world issues.

When I interviewed with Matel, the MIS said something I never forgot "Your MCSE only shows you're good at taking tests, but your CCNA and CCDA mean you actually know a thing or two." Most of the CCNA and CCDA knowledge stayed with me, as I use it all the time, even then, I'd say knowing the 7 layers of the OSI model pretty fooking useless

Whoever wants you to get your MCSE is not operating in the real world, or he'd know how worthless MCSE is.

But back to your question: as others said, do both. You have to study the test for the test. In 2006 I know a lot more than I did when I passed all the tests for MCSE, but if I were to take the same tests again, I'll probably fail.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 2:27:43 PM EDT


"Your MCSE only shows you're good at taking tests, but your CCNA and CCDA mean you actually know a thing or two."

Whoever wants you to get your MCSE is not operating in the real world, or he'd know how worthless MCSE is.

But back to your question: as others said, do both. You have to study the test for the test. In 2006 I know a lot more than I did when I passed all the tests for MCSE, but if I were to take the same tests again, I'll probably fail.



Saves me the trouble of saying the same thing.

I have an MCSE, MCSA, CCNA, and a CCNP. I've forgotten more information on designing, maintaining, and administering network/server environments, than the sum of academic situations on any of those exams.

Well, the Cisco exams are better than that..

My CCNA just lapsed and I'll probably let the others go to. I am at a point where they just don't matter anymore. Plus I'm a management puke now anyway.

Still, if it's what you need for work or as a prereq for another company, go for it. It can't hurt.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 2:34:48 PM EDT
Read, do, study/cram.

Brain dumps do have a place, but not as the sole piece of learning.

Reading is fundamental, but it will help out a ton.

Once you've read through anything you can get your hands on, even while you are still reading, get your hands on some cisco equipment. Even the Virtual routers will help, they'll give you a decent hands on feel. It is definately good to try the stuff you are reading about.

Take the practice tests. Soo how you do, then move on to the next step.

This is where the brain dumps come into play. For the week prior to when you've scheduled the test, cram the brain dumps. Read while eating dinner. Read while taking a (brain) dump. Those will put on the final spit shine and you shouldn't have a problem with the test.

Do that, and you shouldn't have a problem.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 2:52:24 PM EDT
This probably needs to go into the acronym list, but...

MCSE = Must Consult Someone Experienced

Link Posted: 4/3/2006 2:53:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/3/2006 2:53:41 PM EDT by Duffy]
Gaz, that brings back memories of the time when I studied for them damn tests, I was always doing these dang practice tests, wasn't satisfied until I was 90%, but that didn't help as much as the brain dump site where folks post recently tested subjects and the questions/answers themselves.

Brass, the Cisco tests were more useful but it also bordered on academics. I got two CDs and a book to study for CCNA and CCDA, some of the questions were nowhere to be found on the CDs and book I got so pissed off I called up Cisco and bitched at them, made them give me the answers for the next try. Yes, though I passed all the MCSE exams the first time, I had to take CCDA 3 times before I passed, due to these dumb questions like Cisco product model numbers.
Cisco said there's more than one right answer to some of the design questions, true enough, but in the exam you can bet yer ass your answers had better be what they want!

So glad I'm past the exam taking stages now, them tests and studying can be some heavy dues to pay.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 2:57:31 PM EDT
I work as the Director of Information Technology for a medium/large company with offices in Chicago, San Francisco, New York City and HQ in Phoenix.

In IT, a Bachelor's degree is good to get you through HR and into the interview process. It's also good to help you stand out above the other candidates for a position. It shows that you can complete a long-term project and goal. That's about the extent of it for a 4-year degree. Mine's in Management Information Systems. I have rarely seen Master's degrees do anything in IT unless you're in the Computer Science side of things. On the IT Management/Sys/Network Admin side of things, it's not going to help out any, if at all unless you are poised to move to a CIO or CTO type position. Even then, it's only desireable because your bio will be on the company web site and will be a part of representing the company and IT department. The IT world changes so quickly that most of what you learn in college is obsolete by the time you graduate other than the theory, history and basics of IT.

Certifications. Ugh. Yes, I have mine. Why do I have them? Only because I didn't pay a dime to take the tests. I didn't study - just took the tests and passed them. As others have pointed out, they are an absolute joke. In IT, experience is king. Education and certs will get you to the interview, but real-world experience is what counts. Exams - particularly MS exams - would have you think that for any given problem, there is ONE solution for that problem. In the real-world, that is rarely the case. In fact, IT employees who think "outside the box" are the ones who usually make the biggest impact. I have seen IT people who have every cert you can think of, but were unable to do the most basic of computer tasks or answer the most basic of questions. It's due to the cramming sessions. Shovel it in, spit it out and forget about it. You don't learn a thing. It is actually to the point where MCP's, MCSE's, MCSA's, etc reputations are being destroyed (if they aren't already destroyed).
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 3:23:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/3/2006 3:31:13 PM EDT by Sub-MOA]
Oracle, BOA and a few others will not hire you unless you have a MS or MBA. Yes, I’m talking about support positions.

As far as certs go, there’s one area where they will help you a bunch… Contract work.

My last three gigs were design contracts that I would not have been hired for had I not had the certs, degree and experience. The HR guys are looking for paper and references when you get into contract work.

Other than that, they pretty much just serve to differentiate you from the guy that does not like to tinker with new stuff.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 3:27:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Fat_McNasty:
Which is the better way to go..

Brain dump or studying the books? Testing software..



Do you want to pass an exam or pass an exam and have useful skills and knowledge retention?

If you want more than a test (like the ability to back up that certification with actual skill like an employer would expect you to...) then go the playing with it/book route.

Link Posted: 4/3/2006 3:28:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Fat_McNasty:
See this is the thing.. I have been an only net admin for a satellite location of the parent company(6 years). I have my Net+. But the regional Director wants me MCSE certed by EOY. I work daily with Win 2k3 server, AD, multiple domains, hell desk and anything else they can think of. Im looking over the first book 70-290, and it seems to be more review than anything...



Then a test bank might be a good idea.

Take a few practice exams and see how you do on them. If you are scoring 90% without any study, then a test bank might be exactly what you need.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 3:29:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pdg45acp:
As someone who just (luckly) retired out of Information Systems after 30 years... MCSE is nice.. to go along with your BS or Masters in Information Systems or Computer Science.. that's what it takes in today's market..

To get an interview in the Information Systems Dept. in the company I just retired out of you need at least a Masters Degree.. I'm guessing it's that way in most other fortune 500 companies also...

To answer your question... Study the books.. just in case you are actually called upon to know something about the subject at work...



That depends on what you are doing.

If you are a code monster (programmer) then yes, those advanced degrees are a great help.

If you are running the IT support, you don't necessarily need those degrees.

Most of our computer science PHDs can barely make their macs run. But they can do some phenomenal coding.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 5:59:00 PM EDT
Personally I know that the MCSE are pretty much worthless that is why I have waited so long before I was prodded into doing them. My personal goal is a CISSP, but the man wants me to do these and the Cisco certs first.

Hell its on there dime, so why not..
Top Top