Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Posted: 8/19/2004 5:59:57 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/19/2004 6:14:20 AM EST by Spitfire75]
Here's a strange setup. I've seen carry handles mounted on the left/right sides of a railed forend, but never like this. Doesn't seem entirely practical. But what do I know? I've never been in the military. By the way, what kind of forend is that?



ETA: That's not even GANGSTA!
ETA 2: Here's a couple more. These are from Yahoo.




Link Posted: 8/19/2004 6:02:24 AM EST
Probably so he doesn't lose it. The new olyarms ar mounts the stock on the side rail
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 6:08:20 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 6:30:23 AM EST

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:
Probably so he doesn't lose it.


+1

It within reach should he need to dump the ACOG.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 6:31:54 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/19/2004 6:32:06 AM EST by Yojimbo]
Hmmm, I could be wrong but rail looks like a Surefire M73 or a KAC Ras using the Surefire ladder protectors.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 6:32:55 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/19/2004 6:33:24 AM EST by grywlf52]

Originally Posted By Forest:

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:
Probably so he doesn't lose it.


+1

It within reach should he need to dump the ACOG.



Or it breaks/fails [hides in dark corner]
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 6:37:25 AM EST
caption says.... :

The commander of a U.S. Army Abrams tank shoots his automatic rifle towards a Shi'ite militant position in the southern Iraq City of Najaf August 19, 2004. U.S. forces and a radical Iraqi cleric were locked in a tense standoff after the firebrand leader refused to leave a holy shrine in Najaf despite earlier agreeing to disarm his militia and withdraw. (Ali Jasim/Reuters)


<from the pic in the news thread>

Link Posted: 8/19/2004 6:44:46 AM EST

Originally Posted By grywlf52:

Originally Posted By Forest:

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:
Probably so he doesn't lose it.


+1

It within reach should he need to dump the ACOG.



Or it breaks/fails [hides in dark corner]



Someone should issue him A BUIS, so he wouldn't have to mount the damn carry handle on his lower rail in case of ACOG fairlure.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 6:53:24 AM EST
Soldiers were mounting the carry handle wherever there was room just to keep it with the weapon as a buis. Evidently there was a shortage of buis units that could be mounted in conjunction with the ACOG. The mounting shown in the pictures above has no tactical value, other than storage.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 7:00:35 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/19/2004 7:01:01 AM EST by DScott]
Why use a .223 when there's a perfectly good .50 right next to you?



"Aw, geez! I coulda had a V-8 .50 cal.!"
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 7:12:38 AM EST
This position keeps the weapon slim in the horizontal axis, which may be important in confined spaces (like a tank, duhh). It may also function as an expedient VFG ? Probably, just doesn't want to lose it.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 7:21:50 AM EST
Interesting.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 7:23:56 AM EST
It looks like it would be a little hard to get a good grip on the handguard for follow up shots.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 9:23:16 AM EST

Originally Posted By badeffect10:
It looks like it would be a little hard to get a good grip on the handguard for follow up shots.


Yeah, it just doens't look like a comfortable grip. Thanks for the input guys.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 9:28:17 AM EST
I don't know about you, but if I have a GOD DAMNED 50 CAL within arms reach....


....I'll sling the M4.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 9:59:45 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/19/2004 10:00:05 AM EST by Oilhead]
I've seen several of our boys in the sand pit with carry handles mounted on the side of an M5.


Not a bad idea if you want a plan B to your TA31F and don't want to monkey with an ARMS #40
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 10:05:17 AM EST

Originally Posted By Cincinnatus:
I don't know about you, but if I have a GOD DAMNED 50 CAL within arms reach....

....I'll sling the M4.


What he said.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 10:07:43 AM EST

Originally Posted By cluster:
caption says.... :
The commander of a U.S. Army Abrams tank shoots his automatic rifle towards a Shi'ite militant position in the southern Iraq City of Najaf August 19, 2004.<from the pic in the news thread>


Joe Journalist got it wrong. It's not an Abrams, as the Ma-Deuce on the M1-series is hardmounted
into a power traverse, so that the TC can fire it while buttoned up.

From the looks of that hatch, I'd say that it's an artillery piece, or an artillery supply vehicle. (Not
a recovery vehicle either, unless the new model of M88 changed it's TC hatch arrangement, nor an
M113.)
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 10:08:23 AM EST

Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:

Originally Posted By Cincinnatus:
I don't know about you, but if I have a GOD DAMNED 50 CAL within arms reach....

....I'll sling the M4.


What he said.



That is assuming the thing works, or that you have ammo for it. Call me weird, but I would rather point a loaded 5.56 rifle at the enemy than an empty .50. The .50 is awesome, but not THAT awesome.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 10:14:14 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/19/2004 10:23:37 AM EST by Kharn]
Tanker06:
The equipment to fire while buttoned up was dropped a few years back (M1A1 to M1A2 upgrade) in exchange for more electronic goodies for the commander (ability to fire the main gun and coax from his seat, IIRC). He has to open the hatch to use the .50 now.

Here's an M1A2:


Kharn
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 11:23:37 AM EST

Originally Posted By Kharn:
Tanker06:
The equipment to fire while buttoned up was dropped a few years back (M1A1 to M1A2 upgrade) in exchange for more electronic goodies for the commander (ability to fire the main gun and coax from his seat, IIRC). He has to open the hatch to use the .50 now.

Here's an M1A2:
www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/images/m1a2.jpg

Kharn



I wonder why they changed that, it seems like a good idea to keep buttoned up while fighting. I would want a armored shield like those ACAVS around my cupola/.50 if I had to expose myself. especially in that urban style fighting they are going through.
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 4:37:00 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/19/2004 4:38:15 PM EST by 3ACR_Scout]

Originally Posted By CB1:

Originally Posted By Kharn:
Tanker06:
The equipment to fire while buttoned up was dropped a few years back (M1A1 to M1A2 upgrade) in exchange for more electronic goodies for the commander (ability to fire the main gun and coax from his seat, IIRC). He has to open the hatch to use the .50 now.



I wonder why they changed that, it seems like a good idea to keep buttoned up while fighting. I would want a armored shield like those ACAVS around my cupola/.50 if I had to expose myself. especially in that urban style fighting they are going through.



Guys - the TC could always fire the main gun and coax using the commander's override (joystick), but the A2 version of the Abrams has a video display for the Commander's Independent Thermal Viewer (CITV) in place of the internal controls for the cal .50. The CITV is the "R2D2" thing on the top of the turret just to the right of the M240 and gunner's primary site housing (doghouse) in the photo above.

The CITV is an amazing upgrade - it allows the TC to scan independently and designate targets for the gunner, bringing the main gun onto whatever target the TC is looking at through the CITV. It doubles your ability to identify targets by allowing both TC and gunner to search at the same time. The drawback is that, as mentioned above, the TC is exposed when manning the cal .50.

I would guess this TC is using his M4 because he doesn't want the .50 to go through the target into the store behind it / him, out that building, through the car behind the building, and into the house on the other side of the street.

Dave
Link Posted: 8/19/2004 5:41:46 PM EST
Doesn't look too comfortable mounted like that.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 7:24:39 AM EST
good stuff on the M1...I did'nt know that (old 80's Army)

Back to topic; That is really not a bad idea for the carry handle. If you had to keep the carry handle, I would have thought it would be better on one of the sides versus the bottom.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 9:01:05 AM EST

Originally Posted By Cincinnatus:
I don't know about you, but if I have a GOD DAMNED 50 CAL within arms reach....


....I'll sling the M4.



+ 1
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 9:20:50 AM EST
These look like stills from the film footage I watched on TV news here in UK. It's an M1 Commander firing at a target of opportunity in some very intense street fighting close in to the Imam Ali Mosque. The guy was really laying into whoever it was he was shooting at!

Why not using the .50? My guess is either because the Tank very close to and pointed at the mosque and the .50 would tear it up… political no-no. Or, the guy he is shooting at is very close, maybe a rag with an RPG jumped out of a doorway. Eitherway that guy is doing a great job!

As to why he has the handle mounted that way? I would asume it keeps the weapon 'cleaner' stored that way, a big advantage pulling it into and out of a tank.

ANdy
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 9:34:08 AM EST
This is the guy from the news footage on the BBC or ITV or whatever channel.

If he actually hit anyone I'd be amazed, the gun was jumping all over the place and the stock never sat in the shoulder. Even with the body armour that stock needed to be extended a bit.
But what the heck, the guy had taken the gun to the front, it's only fair they let him have some fun with it, and boy did he have fun.
If it'd been me with the M4 it would have been because I'd run out of 50ammo.
Matt
Link Posted: 8/21/2004 1:24:24 AM EST

Originally Posted By Scope-eye:
If he actually hit anyone I'd be amazed, the gun was jumping all over the place and the stock never sat in the shoulder. Even with the body armour that stock needed to be extended a bit.



I've never fired a rifle with my CVC on, but these photos made me realize that you can't really put your cheek against the stock because of the CVC earphones. I guess you'd have to wedge the stock under the earpiece, which kind of looks like what this TC is doing. I'll have to give that a try when I get back to the line...

Dave
Link Posted: 8/21/2004 1:29:04 AM EST
When we first picked up the M4s back in 97, it was SOP to mount the carry handle on the underside of the handguard so you always had it with you.
Top Top