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Posted: 6/17/2014 8:35:03 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/17/2014 8:36:16 PM EST by Storm_Tracker]
Pilfer Ne, was hit on the 16th by a large wedge tornado. Most here probably already know that.

Well a "member" of the chase community acting as a "photo journalist" thought to take pictures of a little girl who was injured and later died.

The image is out there on the net I believe, if you feel the need. The divisions are going to destroy a lot of relationships, acquintances, colleagues, etc...

When I seen the image I wept and thought " what kind of scumbag would take pictures of that"? The "chaser/self described photo journalist" said he was in fear as the firemen EMTs threatened him harm and to destroy his equipment he had claimed in one of his Facebook posts.

There is a lot more to the story. And I know members here will post and the opinions will be varied. But I thought I would shed some light that not all storm chasers are bad people without morals and ethics. I feel the outside world looking in might paint us with a broad brush. That is not the case at all.

Was wondering what others might think or feel about this situation if you know of it.

Link Posted: 6/17/2014 8:37:10 PM EST
OMG! A photographer took a photo of an injured person who later died! That's never happened before! String him up!
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 8:37:44 PM EST
He is defiant and comparing himself to Pulitzer Prize journalists, from war images etc... He uses the fireman holding the baby image from the OK city bombing as an example to defend himself. I think he is a narcissist.
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 8:40:02 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Storm_Tracker:
He is defiant and comparing himself to Pulitzer Prize journalists, from war images etc... He uses the fireman holding the baby image from the OK city bombing as an example to defend himself. I think he is a narcissist.
View Quote


Most "journalists" are. I'm just not seeing what the fuss is about, I guess.
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 8:40:28 PM EST
You would be hard pressed to find someone in fire/EMS/LE who hasn't snapped a pic of a horrific scene, the storm chaser fucked up when he posted the photo though.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 8:40:30 PM EST
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Originally Posted By GrandfatherCoyote:
OMG! A photographer took a photo of an injured person who later died! That's never happened before! String him up!
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It's a little girls lifeless body on a gurney? Her name is Cali Dixon. Everyone will remember her from that image. I'm going to assume you aren't aware of the situation and ethical issues associated with this image.

What if it ws your grand daughter, Grandfather...
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 8:40:39 PM EST
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Originally Posted By GrandfatherCoyote:
OMG! A photographer took a photo of an injured person who later died! That's never happened before! String him up!
View Quote



Taking the pics are one thing. Posting them is entirely different.
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 8:40:50 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/17/2014 8:43:20 PM EST by Orracle]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By GrandfatherCoyote:
OMG! A photographer took a photo of an injured person who later died! That's never happened before! String him up!
View Quote


FPNI. Some of the most "celebrated" photos I can think of are of the dead or dying, even children. My mind quickly goes back to the OKC bombing and a particular image of a child. While I might personally not seek these photos out, I don't think taking a picture would be immoral.

ETA I hadn't heard of this situation before the thread and was phone typing my reply when you responded with the OKC image he is using. I would say it is exactly that from what you described. Facebook might not be the best place for it... But taking the picture isn't wrong.
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 8:41:32 PM EST
I saw it. Its not like he could have put the camera down and help since she was already being tended to by medics.
If the girl had lived the picture would be praised as being a powerful expression of humanity or some such thing.
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 8:41:42 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By para_frame:
You would be hard pressed to find someone in fire/EMS/LE who hasn't snapped a pic of a horrific scene, the storm chaser fucked up when he posted the photo though.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
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Good point. And I'm certain there are many here in that profession who may shed some opinion and feelings on this situation.
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 8:42:08 PM EST
I saw the picture. As terrible as what happened to her is, I don't think it was wrong to photograph her.
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 8:42:35 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Storm_Tracker:
He is defiant and comparing himself to Pulitzer Prize journalists, from war images etc... He uses the fireman holding the baby image from the OK city bombing as an example to defend himself. I think he is a narcissist.
View Quote

The picture he is comparing is exactly like the one he took. He took photos of the aftermath of a tornado. That's what journalists do. He's not a narcissist, he's a journalist doing his job.

Sorry to disagree, but that's my .02.
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 8:42:39 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Storm_Tracker:
He is defiant and comparing himself to Pulitzer Prize journalists, from war images etc... He uses the fireman holding the baby image from the OK city bombing as an example to defend himself. I think he is a narcissist.
View Quote

Most people are, few will admit it. The problem with him defending himself by comparing himself to actual journalists, is that firemen already consider most journalists to be scumbags.
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 8:42:46 PM EST
Jonas, son of a bitch.

Link Posted: 6/17/2014 8:43:06 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By NWhiker:
I saw it. Its not like he could have put the camera down and help since she was already being tended to by medics.
If the girl had lived the picture would be praised as being a powerful expression of humanity or some such thing.
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I wondered to myself in my evaluation of this image if he knew the little girl had died before selling the image to AP. I think that would be something to ponder.
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 8:43:45 PM EST
Haven't seen the photo, but I don't see how censoring a photo accomplishes anything.

Link Posted: 6/17/2014 8:44:28 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By hondaciv:
I saw the picture. As terrible as what happened to her is, I don't think it was wrong to photograph her.
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Yup. That's pretty much where I'm at too. Granted, I'd probably not even take the picture myself, but yeah...
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 8:44:47 PM EST
Where would you rank Twister in the hierarchy of Bill Paxton movies?
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 8:45:25 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By OKC556CPA:

The picture he is comparing is exactly like the one he took. He took photos of the aftermath of a tornado. That's what journalists do. He's not a narcissist, he's a journalist doing his job.

Sorry to disagree, but that's my .02.
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Originally Posted By OKC556CPA:
Originally Posted By Storm_Tracker:
He is defiant and comparing himself to Pulitzer Prize journalists, from war images etc... He uses the fireman holding the baby image from the OK city bombing as an example to defend himself. I think he is a narcissist.

The picture he is comparing is exactly like the one he took. He took photos of the aftermath of a tornado. That's what journalists do. He's not a narcissist, he's a journalist doing his job.

Sorry to disagree, but that's my .02.
Believe me this motherfucker is a narcissist. He doesn't have a job. He is a self described photojournalist for profit.

Have we communicated before? We may all know exactly who we are talking about.
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 8:46:24 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/17/2014 8:47:37 PM EST by Glock63]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By para_frame:
You would be hard pressed to find someone in fire/EMS/LE who hasn't snapped a pic of a horrific scene, the storm chaser fucked up when he posted the photo though.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
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Full time fire/EMS for 5 years, volunteer for another 5 here. I have no desire to, and never did. Sure as hell wouldn't post photos of an identifiable victim online. That said, I don't see what he did as all that bad. Journalists take photos like this all the time, and I don't believe it would have bothered me had it been my patient.
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 8:46:30 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By OKC556CPA:

The picture he is comparing is exactly like the one he took. He took photos of the aftermath of a tornado. That's what journalists do. He's not a narcissist, he's a journalist doing his job.

Sorry to disagree, but that's my .02.
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Originally Posted By OKC556CPA:
Originally Posted By Storm_Tracker:
He is defiant and comparing himself to Pulitzer Prize journalists, from war images etc... He uses the fireman holding the baby image from the OK city bombing as an example to defend himself. I think he is a narcissist.

The picture he is comparing is exactly like the one he took. He took photos of the aftermath of a tornado. That's what journalists do. He's not a narcissist, he's a journalist doing his job.

Sorry to disagree, but that's my .02.


It's a powerful photo, IMO. It's very sad that she passed.
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 8:46:34 PM EST
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Originally Posted By higginsworksforme:
Where would you rank Twister in the hierarchy of Bill Paxton movies?
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Bastard!

Lol

Well, I liked weird science better!
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 8:47:24 PM EST
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Originally Posted By ragedracer1977:


It's a powerful photo, IMO. It's very sad that she passed.
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Originally Posted By ragedracer1977:
Originally Posted By OKC556CPA:
Originally Posted By Storm_Tracker:
He is defiant and comparing himself to Pulitzer Prize journalists, from war images etc... He uses the fireman holding the baby image from the OK city bombing as an example to defend himself. I think he is a narcissist.

The picture he is comparing is exactly like the one he took. He took photos of the aftermath of a tornado. That's what journalists do. He's not a narcissist, he's a journalist doing his job.

Sorry to disagree, but that's my .02.


It's a powerful photo, IMO. It's very sad that she passed.
She was a beautiful little girl.
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 8:48:02 PM EST
Seems to be the lead photo now being used by NYDailyNews on their coverage.
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 8:48:11 PM EST
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 8:48:39 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Glock63:


Full time fire/EMS for 5 years, volunteer for another 5 here. I have no desire to, and never did. Sure as hell wouldn't post photos of an identifiable victim online. That said, I don't see what he did as all that bad. Journalists take photos like this all the time.
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Originally Posted By Glock63:
Originally Posted By para_frame:
You would be hard pressed to find someone in fire/EMS/LE who hasn't snapped a pic of a horrific scene, the storm chaser fucked up when he posted the photo though.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile


Full time fire/EMS for 5 years, volunteer for another 5 here. I have no desire to, and never did. Sure as hell wouldn't post photos of an identifiable victim online. That said, I don't see what he did as all that bad. Journalists take photos like this all the time.

I wear a helmet cam, and the first thing I do is cut out anything that shows a victim and delete it. The only video I've posted online is of 2 small magnesium explosions in my face.
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 8:49:22 PM EST
There are VERY iconic photos of children dying. Think the starving kid with the buzzard in the background.

In this instance, if she hadn't died, would this topic have been posted in the same light?
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 8:50:35 PM EST
He is probably getting shit because people know he's a douche and he did something that gives them a window to be morally outraged at him. However, the picture is no different than what we see from the news in other disasters/bombings/war zones.
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 8:50:56 PM EST
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Originally Posted By sjuhockey10:
I can definitely see where you're coming from. It comes off as tactless and uncaring, especially to be releasing the images of a dying little girl, presumably without consulting her family.

On the other hand, as others have mentioned, that's become part of journalism. Many poignant images have involved the dead and dying, including children.

I worked as an EMT for a while, and there were occasions where I took pictures of accidents and such, but never of patients. Personally, I think that's a time where people deserve what privacy they can retain.

Perhaps this photo will at least remind people that weather -- tornadoes in particular -- are serious business, not something to just stand around and watch.
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I think a point here I have also been thinking deeply about is the fact that some may think of him as a scumbag, but what about the news papers etc... That are buying it and posting it. What does that say about their ethics and morals.

The infighting has begun and lines are being drawn. This single image will make enemies in an already drama filled community. It's worse than GD or a fucking sorority house.
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 8:51:09 PM EST
I think one thing to bear in mind is that until relatively recently photos like that were reviewed by editors before being published.

A victim of war or act of terrorism? Sure, a dramatic photo of a victim, even a child, could be seen as newsworthy.

I fail to see the value of publishing pictures of a fatally injured child tornado victim.

Does this same guy publish pictures of children who drown in swimming pools or die in car wrecks?
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 8:52:28 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By para_frame:
You would be hard pressed to find someone in fire/EMS/LE who hasn't snapped a pic of a horrific scene, the storm chaser fucked up when he posted the photo though.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
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Every LEO/EMS member I know has a couple pictures they keep as examples. Usually of drunk driving, drug abuse, and not using a seatbelt/car seat.
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 8:54:06 PM EST
As a former TV photojournalist - fancy name for a camera operator - if I was first on an accident scene, I would put my camera down (well, maybe first hit the RECORD button) and render whatever aid I could. It never came to that, thankfully.
If the emergency crews were already there, I'd keep a safe distance and start rolling. It was my job to record the events, whether people died or not.
I wouldn't put images of a dying child on TV, but that wasn't my call. The news director always had final say as to what was aired.
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 8:54:14 PM EST
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 8:54:53 PM EST
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Originally Posted By leatherface_y2k:
I think one thing to bear in mind is that until relatively recently photos like that were reviewed by editors before being published.

A victim of war or act of terrorism? Sure, a dramatic photo of a victim, even a child, could be seen as newsworthy.

I fail to see the value of publishing pictures of a fatally injured child tornado victim.

Does this same guy publish pictures of children who drown in swimming pools or die in car wrecks?
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Not that I know of. He would probably post them and I would see them in my feed on FB. Although I shut it down and stopped following a long time ago due to so e of his other "exploits".
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 8:59:48 PM EST
Some people have no class and decency. If 3/4 of the "lookie loo" crews that call themselves storm chasers wouldn't show up in the aftermath things would be a lot better, especially those looking to make a buck rather than help. Nothing is more infuriating then needing help and not one of the idiots who come to a disaster scene with their kids refuse to lend a hand. It's absolutely maddening.

The legit professional storm chasers and those showing up to help are excluded obviously.
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 9:04:27 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Sierra5:
Some people have no class and decency. If 3/4 of the "lookie loo" crews that call themselves storm chasers wouldn't show up in the aftermath things would be a lot better, especially those looking to make a buck rather than help. Nothing is more infuriating then needing help and not one of the idiots who come to a disaster scene with their kids refuse to lend a hand. It's absolutely maddening.

The legit professional storm chasers and those showing up to help are excluded obviously.
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I took the time to make an extensive FA kit to help when I can. I can't imagine hearing cries and moans from injured people and continuing on my chase. I am a thrill seeker, and I sell footage from high profile events like Joplin etc.. But I'm not cold and calloused. Part of the trend that seems to be occurring is EMS etc. don't want us there. I provide expedient triage for wounds etc and move on if warranted.
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 9:05:07 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/17/2014 9:05:40 PM EST by jDrexler]
To me it boils down to one thing,

Could the photographer have helped save their "subjects" life if they had acted instead of stood on the sideline to take an image? (This also takes into consideration if it would be appropriate to help, like an american journalist covering a civil war in another country who shouldn't be interfering at all)

In this case it appears there was nothing the photographer could have done, so I wouldn't consider it unethical to take the photo.
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 9:05:56 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/17/2014 9:10:12 PM EST by GlutealCleft]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By OKC556CPA:
The picture he is comparing is exactly like the one he took. He took photos of the aftermath of a tornado. That's what journalists do. He's not a narcissist, he's a journalist doing his job.

Sorry to disagree, but that's my .02.
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I agree. If journalists taking pictures of injured/dying/dead people is wrong, we have a whooooole lot of pictures that our country and society publishes and republishes that we need to get rid of. And, I don't recall hearing any outrage about any of those pictures...

I can think of well-known, well-used photographs of dead/dying, including children, that are, IMHO, much more invasive than this. The only difference here is that this girl was from America.
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 9:08:48 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By leatherface_y2k:

Does this same guy publish pictures of children who drown in swimming pools or die in car wrecks?
View Quote

I can't recall the details, but wasn't there a lawsuit a few years ago over this? Someone leaked pictures of a girl that was mangled in a traffic accident.

In any event, this seems to be in poor taste. Even most legitimate journalists are parasites.
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 9:11:29 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By jDrexler:
To me it boils down to one thing,

Could the photographer have helped save their "subjects" life if they had acted instead of stood on the sideline to take an image? (This also takes into consideration if it would be appropriate to help, like an american journalist covering a civil war in another country who shouldn't be interfering at all)

In this case it appears there was nothing the photographer could have done, so I wouldn't consider it unethical to take the photo.
View Quote


This was the first picture to pop into my head.

Link Posted: 6/17/2014 9:12:07 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Storm_Tracker:
I took the time to make an extensive FA kit to help when I can. I can't imagine hearing cries and moans from injured people and continuing on my chase. I am a thrill seeker, and I sell footage from high profile events like Joplin etc.. But I'm not cold and calloused. Part of the trend that seems to be occurring is EMS etc. don't want us there. I provide expedient triage for wounds etc and move on if warranted.
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Originally Posted By Storm_Tracker:
Originally Posted By Sierra5:
Some people have no class and decency. If 3/4 of the "lookie loo" crews that call themselves storm chasers wouldn't show up in the aftermath things would be a lot better, especially those looking to make a buck rather than help. Nothing is more infuriating then needing help and not one of the idiots who come to a disaster scene with their kids refuse to lend a hand. It's absolutely maddening.

The legit professional storm chasers and those showing up to help are excluded obviously.
I took the time to make an extensive FA kit to help when I can. I can't imagine hearing cries and moans from injured people and continuing on my chase. I am a thrill seeker, and I sell footage from high profile events like Joplin etc.. But I'm not cold and calloused. Part of the trend that seems to be occurring is EMS etc. don't want us there. I provide expedient triage for wounds etc and move on if warranted.


I've been there on 5, and trust me if people are competent to help and have supplies they are appreciated.

It's the idiots clogging streets with cars to take a peek, bringing their kids to the active scenes in flip flops to walk around and see the damage, following the TIV and the other vehicles around to see them in action and putting their families in danger and making the situation worse that don't need to be there. The people looking to make a buck also.

The professional chasers doing it to warn, track, and gain knowledge never seem to be the problem. Unfortunately so many untrained fools looking to make a buck via internet sites that give the profession a bad rep. There is no mechanism to police their own so many more hacks are causing the issues.
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 9:12:15 PM EST
Saw that photo. I don't feel it was distasteful. I don't see anything wrong with images or video that depict real life. Censorship is a slippery slope.
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 9:12:41 PM EST
The picture is very tragic, but that's how people that weren't there can understand the impact.

Also....can someone please tell me how that board is being held up?
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 9:14:11 PM EST
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Originally Posted By BoxofRox:
The picture is very tragic, but that's how people that weren't there can understand the impact.

Also....can someone please tell me how that board is being held up?
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Another firefighter obviously on the other end, that was cut out of the image.
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 9:16:32 PM EST
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Originally Posted By KingRat:

I can't recall the details, but wasn't there a lawsuit a few years ago over this? Someone leaked pictures of a girl that was mangled in a traffic accident.

In any event, this seems to be in poor taste. Even most legitimate journalists are parasites.
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Originally Posted By KingRat:
Originally Posted By leatherface_y2k:

Does this same guy publish pictures of children who drown in swimming pools or die in car wrecks?

I can't recall the details, but wasn't there a lawsuit a few years ago over this? Someone leaked pictures of a girl that was mangled in a traffic accident.

In any event, this seems to be in poor taste. Even most legitimate journalists are parasites.
The Cassouras case out california?

The photos that were leaked came from Deputies, or EMTs, if I am remembering correctly.
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 9:18:07 PM EST
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Originally Posted By RacerX330:
Saw that photo. I don't feel it was distasteful. I don't see anything wrong with images or video that depict real life. Censorship is a slippery slope.
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He took many other images of the little girl. The side of her we can't see was grotesque from the wonds from what I'm hearing. I'm not liking the fact that he took images of this little girl while paramedics tended to her. It was obviously enough to piss off the EMS on scene.

He claims he rendered aide and then when the EMS showed up and took over he started his photography campaign. I don't know the veracity of the claim, or if it matters,
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 9:18:40 PM EST
There is a time for documenting and reporting and a time to put that shit away and help your fellow man. That time comes as soon as the storm starts doing serious damage to structures that contain people. Some of the guys seriously piss me off.
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 9:19:24 PM EST
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 9:21:47 PM EST
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Originally Posted By 3one5:
There is a time for documenting and reporting and a time to put that shit away and help your fellow man. That time comes as soon as the storm starts doing serious damage to structures that contain people. Some of the guys seriously piss me off.
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This is kind of where I sit with it. I like doing damage pics, but not when folks are hurt nearby.

I once was threatened with violence for taking video of people cleaning up their belongings at a rent a storage shortly after a damaging tornado. I un assed the scene instead of argue about my rights with pissed off victims.
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 9:23:01 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/17/2014 9:27:31 PM EST by GlutealCleft]
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Originally Posted By Storm_Tracker:
He took many other images of the little girl. The side of her we can't see was grotesque from the wonds from what I'm hearing. I'm not liking the fact that he took images of this little girl while paramedics tended to her. It was obviously enough to piss off the EMS on scene.

He claims he rendered aide and then when the EMS showed up and took over he started his photography campaign. I don't know the veracity of the claim, or if it matters,
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Originally Posted By Storm_Tracker:
Originally Posted By RacerX330:
Saw that photo. I don't feel it was distasteful. I don't see anything wrong with images or video that depict real life. Censorship is a slippery slope.
He took many other images of the little girl. The side of her we can't see was grotesque from the wonds from what I'm hearing. I'm not liking the fact that he took images of this little girl while paramedics tended to her. It was obviously enough to piss off the EMS on scene.

He claims he rendered aide and then when the EMS showed up and took over he started his photography campaign. I don't know the veracity of the claim, or if it matters,


Of course he did. That's how you do photography during real-time events. For every published picture at a sporting event, there are probably a minimum of a hundred, if not a thousand or more, that aren't. You don't get to set things up, pose people, prepare lighting, you just take pictures as things happen. You do your best to make each shot count, but still, for every stellar photograph, you'll have a LOT of rejects.

Now, did he publish those pictures of grotesque wounds? From what I can tell, no. He published one that seems about as tasteful as you can get, and still capture the scene.

One thing that I would have done, in his shoes, is to at least ask the family's thoughts and permission before publishing.
Link Posted: 6/17/2014 9:24:43 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/17/2014 9:25:07 PM EST by SIRIUS1]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Storm_Tracker:
He is defiant and comparing himself to Pulitzer Prize journalists, from war images etc... He uses the fireman holding the baby image from the OK city bombing as an example to defend himself. I think he is a narcissist.
View Quote



I think you're right.



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