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Posted: 6/11/2009 3:49:57 AM EST
Link Posted: 6/11/2009 3:53:03 AM EST
If he was "in fear" he would not have followed them out into the parking lot. Pretty simple.
Link Posted: 6/11/2009 3:54:36 AM EST
"Assistant Solicitor Brad Richardson said Eliyahu had 22 bullets on him when the shooting occurred."

WTF

Someone fucked up...you don't follow people when the incident could be over. He'll get convicted of something for sure...I don't know about murder...but since he followed him out to the parking lot, maybe a good DA could show intent.
Link Posted: 6/11/2009 3:58:18 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/11/2009 3:59:38 AM EST by Aimless]
Link Posted: 6/11/2009 4:01:36 AM EST
It appeared he wanted to press charges against the person for the assault - and was assaluted again getting plate information. Secondly he was on his property when both assaults occurred. Thank God Texas does not have a retreat law.

I have to assume that the state in question has very week self defense protection - or that there is a lot of stuff missing from the article. But then again I supported Joe Horn.
Link Posted: 6/11/2009 4:06:49 AM EST
Originally Posted By Aimless:
Depends on what the video shows. Just going out into the parking lot to get the plate might not sink the shooter, although it does maybe give the impression of chasing after the guy out of anger.

What do you have to show to use a firearm in SC? If you have to be in fear of serious bodily injury or somesuch having the guy previously push you then run towards you will be a tough sell.


Fixed.
Link Posted: 6/11/2009 4:09:47 AM EST
Based on the limited information available I say good shoot.

He was assaulted by the man. He had every right to try and identify him through his license plate information. The deceased charged a man with a gun-that to me, says something about his state of mind.....play stupid games.......

The deceased sounds like a guy with an anger problem. You don't cause problems in somebodies store and then physically assault them- tough guy. Not as tough as a bullet apparently.
Link Posted: 6/11/2009 4:13:47 AM EST
Originally Posted By Plumbata:
If he was "in fear" he would not have followed them out into the parking lot. Pretty simple.

He wasn't in fear when he went out to get the license plate number. Or did he draw his weapon, then go out?

The fear started when "Pope threatened him in the parking lot and charged at him."
Link Posted: 6/11/2009 4:14:23 AM EST

Good shoot.

Link Posted: 6/11/2009 4:17:42 AM EST
I'm gonna say good shot
Link Posted: 6/11/2009 4:20:47 AM EST
Link Posted: 6/11/2009 4:27:15 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/11/2009 4:29:03 AM EST by Admiral_Crunch]
Sounds like a good shoot to me.

If you have a gun drawn and someone still charges you, you have to assume that if they get to you, they are going to try to disarm you and use your weapon on you.
Link Posted: 6/11/2009 4:29:09 AM EST
Good shoot.

Going out to try and get the plate number may have "felt" safe as the BG's were leaving.
Link Posted: 6/11/2009 4:30:27 AM EST
Hope he had security cameras to back it up, and sounds like he called 911 before going out, so that's a good thing too.
Link Posted: 6/11/2009 4:38:24 AM EST
Maybe a good shoot, maybe the jury won't convict. He's almost certianly going to get a wrongful death suit out of it and be destroyed financilaly, at the very least.
Link Posted: 6/11/2009 4:38:46 AM EST
Originally Posted By Will:
Based on the limited information available I say good shoot.

He was assaulted by the man. He had every right to try and identify him through his license plate information. The deceased charged a man with a gun-that to me, says something about his state of mind.....play stupid games.......

The deceased sounds like a guy with an anger problem. You don't cause problems in somebodies store and then physically assault them- tough guy. Not as tough as a bullet apparently.


Very well said.
Link Posted: 6/11/2009 4:47:07 AM EST
Originally Posted By Will:
Based on the limited information available I say good shoot.

He was assaulted by the man. He had every right to try and identify him through his license plate information. The deceased charged a man with a gun-that to me, says something about his state of mind.....play stupid games.......

The deceased sounds like a guy with an anger problem. You don't cause problems in somebodies store and then physically assault them- tough guy. Not as tough as a bullet apparently.


+1 Good Shot
Link Posted: 6/11/2009 5:07:14 AM EST
Owner was already assualted in the store.

If the outdoor video shows the dead guy coming after him and a verbal threat, then it could be justified if SC does not require retreat.
Does SC allow the use of lethal force in a non-lethal force encounter. Means, opportunity and intent.

Opportunity would be him charging.
The threat and prior physical assualt shows intent.
Means would be a weapon or overwelming force.

he may not have had the means to inflict severe bodily harm. But the jury after seeing the video, if it shows clearly that the dead guy was the aggressor, could side with the defendant.

I guess the biggest question is: Why did he not keep his distance from a guy that had already assualted him and why did he not retreat back to the store when the guy started in his direction?

Even if he is found not guilty, too many people forget about the wrongful death suit that will kill him financially.



Mace would have come in handy and is always a good non-lethal use of force to try and stop an attack.

Link Posted: 6/11/2009 5:13:58 AM EST
Opinion from across the pond...

If the deceased didn't want to get shot; then he shouldn't have charged an armed man who he had just assaulted who was pointing a gun at him.

Sounds like a mixture of good shoot and natural selection to me.

If the shooter was in the UK (and had used a weapon legal in the UK) then he would be looking at about 30 years - even if the guy had a knife. That's how dumb it is here
Link Posted: 6/11/2009 5:15:30 AM EST
Unless I'm reading it wrong and I looked at a couple of times, the gun did not come out till the end.

I would for sure say good shoot if the guy charged a man holding a weapon.


Yeah, the way I read it was that he went into the parking lot and the guy verbally assaulted him and advanced on him. He then pulled his firearm and told him to leave and at that point the guy charged him.

Anybody that attempts to close distance with you when you have a firearm out and have told them to leave the premises, especially when they have just a short time earlier assaulted you- should be considered a serious threat. I would have shot him too at that point.
Link Posted: 6/11/2009 5:16:11 AM EST
Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Originally Posted By Will:
Based on the limited information available I say good shoot.

He was assaulted by the man. He had every right to try and identify him through his license plate information. The deceased charged a man with a gun-that to me, says something about his state of mind.....play stupid games.......

The deceased sounds like a guy with an anger problem. You don't cause problems in somebodies store and then physically assault them- tough guy. Not as tough as a bullet apparently.



Unless I'm reading it wrong and I looked at a couple of times, the gun did not come out till the end.

I would for sure say good shoot if the guy charged a man holding a weapon.


As usual, the story isn't worded very well. I took away from the article that he charged a gun. This was the line that gave me that impression:
Eliyahu said Pope threatened him in the parking lot and charged at him, prompting him to pull a gun from his pants and yell for Pope to leave the property. Eliyahu said Pope charged at him and he shot him.


Now, I'm only basing this on the story, I'd want to see the security footage to back it up.. but based on the chronology of that statement alone...
1. Eliyahu follows guy to parking lot to retrieve license plate
2. Pope threatens him
3. Pope charges at him
4. Eliyahu pulls gun
5. Pope pauses his charge
6. Eliyahu yells at Pope to leave
7. Pope resumes his halted charge
8. Eliyahu fires

If the security footage backs up that claim.... good shoot.
Link Posted: 6/11/2009 5:17:37 AM EST
Link Posted: 6/11/2009 5:23:47 AM EST
Link Posted: 6/11/2009 5:26:10 AM EST
Details are a little sketch but mostly likely a good shoot.
Link Posted: 6/11/2009 5:29:43 AM EST
Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:

The nine-woman, three-man jury stalled Wednesday after deliberating for about an hour.


Wow, that's a jury of his peers...if he lived on fucking Amazonian Island. WTH?

Link Posted: 6/11/2009 5:30:39 AM EST
The video of the man choking him or touching him well set him free.

He will just have to explain why he followed them out.
Link Posted: 6/11/2009 5:42:23 AM EST
Sounds to me like a good shoot.




-K
Link Posted: 6/11/2009 5:47:15 AM EST
From what's written in the article, sounds like a good shoot to me.
Link Posted: 6/11/2009 5:56:00 AM EST
Assuming it happened the way the store owner says, good shoot. Hopefully outside video evidence will show that. I find it hard to believe though that someone would charge someone holding a gun on them.
Link Posted: 6/11/2009 5:58:44 AM EST
I would not convict.
Link Posted: 6/11/2009 6:00:31 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/11/2009 6:02:03 AM EST by Will]
I find it hard to believe though that someone would charge someone holding a gun on them.


Happens all the time, ask any cop. People are on dope, steroids, not right in the head......Had a guy not long ago here that pulled a friggen airsoft pistol on a cop-when the cop had a gun on him-tweeker....What do you think the cop did?
Link Posted: 6/11/2009 6:03:38 AM EST
Originally Posted By Will:
I find it hard to believe though that someone would charge someone holding a gun on them.


Happens all the time, ask any cop. People are on dope, steroids, not right in the head......Had a guy not long ago here that pulled a friggen airsoft pistol on a cop-when the cop had a gun on him-tweeker....What do you think the cop did?

Yea, maybe I'm out of line.

Link Posted: 6/11/2009 6:09:02 AM EST
Originally Posted By Will:

I find it hard to believe though that someone would charge someone holding a gun on them.


Happens all the time, ask any cop. People are on dope, steroids, not right in the head......Had a guy not long ago here that pulled a friggen airsoft pistol on a cop-when the cop had a gun on him-tweeker....What do you think the cop did?

Yea, maybe I'm out of line.


You are thinking rationally, not all folks do. Sometimes they get hurt.


Link Posted: 6/11/2009 6:12:26 AM EST
Originally Posted By mousehunter:
It appeared he wanted to press charges against the person for the assault - and was assaluted again getting plate information. Secondly he was on his property when both assaults occurred. Thank God Texas does not have a retreat law.

I have to assume that the state in question has very week self defense protection - or that there is a lot of stuff missing from the article. But then again I supported Joe Horn.




FL?


No, we got a pretty good "stand your ground" law.
Link Posted: 6/11/2009 6:13:56 AM EST
Originally Posted By Plumbata:
If he was "in fear" he would not have followed them out into the parking lot. Pretty simple.


TWO SEPARATE INCIDENTS
Link Posted: 6/11/2009 6:14:55 AM EST
I won't lose any sleep over that POS getting deaded.

HH
Link Posted: 6/11/2009 6:24:11 AM EST
Link Posted: 6/11/2009 6:29:06 AM EST
Link Posted: 6/11/2009 6:34:16 AM EST
Link Posted: 6/11/2009 6:35:35 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/11/2009 6:36:35 AM EST by John_Wayne777]
Link Posted: 6/11/2009 6:37:32 AM EST
Originally Posted By M4Fanatic:
Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Originally Posted By Will:
Based on the limited information available I say good shoot.

He was assaulted by the man. He had every right to try and identify him through his license plate information. The deceased charged a man with a gun-that to me, says something about his state of mind.....play stupid games.......

The deceased sounds like a guy with an anger problem. You don't cause problems in somebodies store and then physically assault them- tough guy. Not as tough as a bullet apparently.



Unless I'm reading it wrong and I looked at a couple of times, the gun did not come out till the end.

I would for sure say good shoot if the guy charged a man holding a weapon.


As usual, the story isn't worded very well. I took away from the article that he charged a gun. This was the line that gave me that impression:
Eliyahu said Pope threatened him in the parking lot and charged at him, prompting him to pull a gun from his pants and yell for Pope to leave the property. Eliyahu said Pope charged at him and he shot him.


Now, I'm only basing this on the story, I'd want to see the security footage to back it up.. but based on the chronology of that statement alone...
1. Eliyahu follows guy to parking lot to retrieve license plate
2. Pope threatens him
3. Pope charges at him
4. Eliyahu pulls gun
5. Pope pauses his charge
6. Eliyahu yells at Pope to leave
7. Pope resumes his halted charge
8. Eliyahu fires

If the security footage backs up that claim.... good shoot.



+1

anyone have video?
Link Posted: 6/11/2009 6:38:41 AM EST
Nine woman, three man jury?

Link Posted: 6/11/2009 6:44:01 AM EST
It was the right decision to shoot, but why was the gun out in the first place? He showed terrible judgement up to that point. First of all, is your life so desperately boring that you have to press charges against a guy you're never going to see again for shoving you? Then when he confronts you in reaction to your pursuit, why do you fear for your life enough to draw down? Do you honestly think he's going to beat a total stranger to death in front of his entire family? It's the defendant's fault for escalating the situation to deadly force, plain and simple.
Link Posted: 6/11/2009 6:46:18 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/11/2009 6:47:02 AM EST by Sixguns4Fighting]
Originally Posted By m23shooter:
The video of the man choking him or touching him well set him free.

He will just have to explain why he followed them out.


Did you not read the part where the storekeeper went out to get a license plate number?
Link Posted: 6/11/2009 6:50:40 AM EST
Good shoot, adios dickhead.
Link Posted: 6/11/2009 6:51:39 AM EST

Originally Posted By Sixguns4Fighting:
Originally Posted By m23shooter:
The video of the man choking him or touching him well set him free.

He will just have to explain why he followed them out.


Did you not read the part where the storekeeper went out to get a license plate number?

Oh yea, he's supposed to cower in fear on his own property.

Link Posted: 6/11/2009 6:51:57 AM EST
Link Posted: 6/11/2009 6:53:41 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/11/2009 6:59:17 AM EST by John_Wayne777]
Link Posted: 6/11/2009 6:53:57 AM EST
Originally Posted By Plumbata:
If he was "in fear" he would not have followed them out into the parking lot. Pretty simple.


He was trying to get the license plate so he could report it to the cops. Then the guy got hostile again and came after him. THAT is when he was afraid for his life and drew his gun and told the guy to stay away. And the guy kept coming.

I'd say good shoot. The hostile customer played a stupid game and won a stupid prize.
Link Posted: 6/11/2009 6:57:37 AM EST
Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
Perhaps you don't see things this way, but if some dickhead lays hands on me he's going to answer for it.

You're going to go after him and shoot him dead?

Link Posted: 6/11/2009 6:59:25 AM EST
Originally Posted By mousehunter:
It appeared he wanted to press charges against the person for the assault - and was assaluted again getting plate information. Secondly he was on his property when both assaults occurred. Thank God Texas does not have a retreat law.

I have to assume that the state in question has very week self defense protection - or that there is a lot of stuff missing from the article. But then again I supported Joe Horn.


I think Joe Horn should have gotten a fucking medal.

"They're getting away! They're getting away! I'm not letting this happen! Hey you, stop! Bang, you're dead!" *BOOMBOOM*

"Open and shut case. The two dirtbags deserved it. I hereby award Joe Horn the medal of Urban Renewal. Case dismissed."
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