Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
BCM
Member Login

Site Notices
Posted: 4/12/2017 9:02:03 PM EDT
https://www.stripes.com/news/us/stop-loss-an-option-for-air-force-to-stem-pilots-departure-to-airlines-1.462909#.WOwRsTw8KEd

" WASHINGTON (Tribune News Service)  Faced with pilots leaving the Air Force in droves for the airlines, top generals are considering the option of forcing some to stay in the service against their will, a senior Air Force general told CQ Roll Call.

Gen. Carlton Everhart, chief of Air Mobility Command, said in an interview that he and other senior Air Force generals will join Gen. David Goldfein, the services chief of staff, alongside representatives of the other armed services, in a meeting with U.S. airline executives May 18 at Andrews Air Force Base.

The goal of the meeting will be to find ways to solve the exodus of Air Force pilots to the industry in a way that is mutually acceptable for the U.S. military and the airlines  without the Air Force having to resort to stop-loss, a means of forcing Air Force personnel to stay in the service beyond the period of their commitment."
Link Posted: 4/12/2017 9:27:18 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/12/2017 10:09:25 PM EDT
That sucks for them.

Stop-loss is government-approved indentured servitude.
Link Posted: 4/12/2017 10:21:58 PM EDT
Just wreck one of uncle sugars aircraft. You'll be out in record time.
Link Posted: 4/12/2017 10:33:43 PM EDT
Lots of ways to beat a stop loss
Link Posted: 4/12/2017 10:36:37 PM EDT
Lol.  Idiots.
Link Posted: 4/12/2017 10:42:59 PM EDT
Fake news?   From Gen Mike Holmes (of Air Combat Command fame):

"ACC Airmen: I'm sure you've seen recent media speculation about the potential of implementing stop-loss for some of our pilots. This is NOT on the table. Stop-loss is a tool used by the President and Secretary of Defense to cover emergency situations. We are not in that situation.

We ARE pursuing a number of initiatives associated with increasing 11F production, absorption, and retention to address our current and pending shortfalls. There is no silver bullet that will solve this. A long-term solution will require a combination of all three approaches.

We also ARE currently pursuing a number of options to address quality of service for our warfighters and encourage them to stay with us. That list will expand as we focus on improving squadron readiness and building and retaining operational leaders. But we're committed to going forward according to the principles of an all-volunteer force, which includes respecting our Airmen's decisions about their future.

As members of the profession of arms, I welcome your ideas about improving our quality of service."

Link to the good general's own Facebook page
Link Posted: 4/15/2017 10:17:36 AM EDT
Seems to me to be a good way to stop people from ever signing up.
Link Posted: 4/15/2017 4:37:59 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Seems to me to be a good way to stop people from ever signing up.
View Quote
Just suggesting that it's an option should be good enough for that.
Link Posted: 4/15/2017 5:02:40 PM EDT
Maybe they should offer them leather jackets?  
Link Posted: 4/15/2017 5:28:33 PM EDT
SCARF

SCARF stands for Status, Certainty, Autonomy, Relatedness and Fairness (social behavior model)

Satisfy that in your workplace, and you will did never have a retention problem.

or in other words: pay your people, empower them to be effective,  get rid of the bad ones, etc.
Link Posted: 4/15/2017 10:02:58 PM EDT
Offer them cigarettes, saki, and wild women. Oh....and the opportunity to eliminate the opposition in a heterosexual kind of way. Bring back go-go dancers at the O-Club and napalm.

Twenty five cent shooters at the O-Club!

Bring back hard light burners and state side supersonic low level routes.

Outlaw political correctness among warriors.

Mandatory wet t-shirts at the O-Club!


Link Posted: 4/15/2017 11:33:10 PM EDT
The generals and decision makers are so clueless. 95% of the pilots I know of are counting down the days until eligible to separate.

Stop loss the pilots? Lol. I guess they can keep us in, but they sure as fuck can't force us to fly.
Link Posted: 4/16/2017 6:50:48 AM EDT
Goldfein: Pilot Stop Loss Not Being Considered

Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. David Goldfein said Wednesday he is “not considering stop loss” as a means of retaining pilots in the service.

LINK
Link Posted: 4/16/2017 7:27:35 AM EDT
That'll kill whatever is left of morale.
Link Posted: 4/16/2017 7:30:59 AM EDT
We call it obliserve in the Navy. They did it to my wife and me (also any other IS in around the same time as we were). The quality of work they got out of any of us during those forced extensions was subpar at best.
Link Posted: 4/16/2017 10:54:42 AM EDT
20 years ago, I couldn't get a slot to save my life. Now, the irony is killing me.
Link Posted: 4/16/2017 10:58:55 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/16/2017 10:30:16 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
20 years ago, I couldn't get a slot to save my life. Now, the irony is killing me.
View Quote
Oh it's as competitive as its always been to become a pilot. It's just that after a decade of doing it for the AF, no one wants to stay in.
Link Posted: 4/16/2017 10:42:09 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Just wreck one of uncle sugars aircraft. You'll be out in record time.
View Quote
Fuck that.  Just fail 3 PT tests
Link Posted: 4/17/2017 8:47:54 PM EDT
Up R-ATP hours for the .mil to full 1500.

Most .mil pilots don't have shit for flightime anymore.
Link Posted: 4/17/2017 11:40:45 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Up R-ATP hours for the .mil to full 1500.

Most .mil pilots don't have shit for flightime anymore.
View Quote
I haven't met a single AF pilot who didn't have at least 1500 hours after their 10 year commitment was up.  Most had double and many heavy bubbas had triple that.
Link Posted: 4/18/2017 12:28:14 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Oh it's as competitive as its always been to become a pilot. It's just that after a decade of doing it for the AF, no one wants to stay in.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
20 years ago, I couldn't get a slot to save my life. Now, the irony is killing me.
Oh it's as competitive as its always been to become a pilot. It's just that after a decade of doing it for the AF, no one wants to stay in.
Those that flew during GWOT have been rode hard and put away wet.

We are, for the most part, sick of the queepy shit that doesn't relate to our job.  Then overlooked for our efforts.

Why not move to greener pastures where you get paid (well too!) to do what you've been trained to do?

Can anyone blame us?
Link Posted: 4/18/2017 1:07:29 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Up R-ATP hours for the .mil to full 1500.

Most .mil pilots don't have shit for flightime anymore.
View Quote
Really? I have 1500 hours in 2 different AF aircraft.
Link Posted: 4/19/2017 3:06:09 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Up R-ATP hours for the .mil to full 1500.

Most .mil pilots don't have shit for flightime anymore.
View Quote
Maybe some fighter guys, but even most of them will have pretty close to that and anyone who has flown heavies, helos, or trainers certainly will have more.
Link Posted: 4/19/2017 4:05:12 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/19/2017 11:45:04 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Maybe some fighter guys, but even most of them will have pretty close to that and anyone who has flown heavies, helos, or trainers certainly will have more.
View Quote
Helos aren't necessarily getting that much flight time.
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 1:32:04 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Helos aren't necessarily getting that much flight time.
View Quote
Flight time...sure.  Fixed wing time (which matters to the airlines)...NOPE.

Apples and oranges
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 2:29:07 AM EDT
Or they could just up their bonuses for aviators. It isn't rocket science, and most of these guys would probably prefer to hit 20 and snag their retirement.
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 4:36:27 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Or they could just up their bonuses for aviators. It isn't rocket science, and most of these guys would probably prefer to hit 20 and snag their retirement.
View Quote
While you would think this would be the case, it doesn't reflect reality.  The bonus is a non-factor for 95% of guys today, in my opinion.  Sure, there are a few fence-sitters, but for the majority of the ones getting out, there isn't a dollar amount that would convince them to stay.  And for the ones accepting the bonus, they most likely were going to stay to 20 years anyway, bonus or not.  The problem is rooted in today's AF culture.  And until leadership grasps how their actions are driving people away, money is not going to fix a thing.
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 11:50:45 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Flight time...sure.  Fixed wing time (which matters to the airlines)...NOPE.

Apples and oranges
View Quote
Helicopter dudes are being actively recruited now.
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 12:45:06 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Or they could just up their bonuses for aviators. It isn't rocket science, and most of these guys would probably prefer to hit 20 and snag their retirement.
View Quote
LOL.  I made what the AF gives for a yearly bonus in one good month flying at my airline.  

I'm proud of my time flying for the AF and thankful for the opportunities it's given me.  I served my commitment and it was time to move on.  No amount of money would have kept me on active duty.
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 1:36:05 PM EDT
Ive heard the hinting of Army bonuses for staying. We do not rate flight pay on the level of the other services. I have been flying now for 5 years, and my flight pay is like $205/month. Its about to go up to $650ish.

The bonus numbers we are hearing are 4 years/$75k or 6 years/$100k.
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 8:53:38 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Helicopter dudes are being actively recruited now.
View Quote
Regionals or majors?

IMO the problem we have we can't throw money at...from what I've seen and experienced it will take a lot more than money to keep some of the bros that are getting out.
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 9:31:39 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Ive heard the hinting of Army bonuses for staying. We do not rate flight pay on the level of the other services. I have been flying now for 5 years, and my flight pay is like $205/month. Its about to go up to $650ish.

The bonus numbers we are hearing are 4 years/$75k or 6 years/$100k.
View Quote
Pretty sure that flight pay is exactly what AF pilots get
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 9:58:59 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Pretty sure that flight pay is exactly what AF pilots get
View Quote
Truth
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 10:11:25 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Up R-ATP hours for the .mil to full 1500.

Most .mil pilots don't have shit for flightime anymore.
View Quote
Hahaha...  My best year was 800 hours.  Pretty much each of my 3 flying assignments got me 1500 +/- 300 hours.  Heavy guys make those hours pretty easy...  After 10 years of the initial commitment heavy pilots will have well over double that number.
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 10:24:15 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Pretty sure that flight pay is exactly what AF pilots get
View Quote
Don't think WO flight pay ever decreases though like Commissioned officer's does.
Link Posted: 4/20/2017 10:36:33 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Helicopter dudes are being actively recruited now.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:


Flight time...sure.  Fixed wing time (which matters to the airlines)...NOPE.

Apples and oranges
Helicopter dudes are being actively recruited now.
Right on, man!

I stand corrected.  After doing a little reading apparently Flight Time is Flight Time for the ATP.  It is the individual airlines that determine how much Fixed Wing time they want.
Link Posted: 4/21/2017 1:20:44 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Pretty sure that flight pay is exactly what AF pilots get
View Quote
Oh, nice. I stand corrected. We were under the impression yall made fuck ton
Link Posted: 4/21/2017 5:04:40 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Oh, nice. I stand corrected. We were under the impression yall made fuck ton
View Quote
I'm in the $650 bracket.  Its bullshit - apparently the flight pay hasn't been adjusted since like 1992.  It was a lot more money 2 decades ago.
Link Posted: 4/21/2017 5:07:11 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



After doing a little reading apparently Flight Time is Flight Time for the ATP.  It is the individual airlines that determine how much Fixed Wing time they want.
View Quote
Unless that "flight time" is RPA time.  
Link Posted: 4/21/2017 10:28:49 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I'm in the $650 bracket.  Its bullshit - apparently the flight pay hasn't been adjusted since like 1992.  It was a lot more money 2 decades ago.
View Quote
I cant wait for the $650. July 11th cant get here soon enough....
Link Posted: 4/21/2017 10:58:30 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

I'm in the $650 bracket.  Its bullshit - apparently the flight pay hasn't been adjusted since like 1992.  It was a lot more money 2 decades ago.
View Quote
I was getting $600/month flight pay, when I got out of the Navy in 1991.
Link Posted: 4/21/2017 8:33:21 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
While you would think this would be the case, it doesn't reflect reality.  The bonus is a non-factor for 95% of guys today, in my opinion.  Sure, there are a few fence-sitters, but for the majority of the ones getting out, there isn't a dollar amount that would convince them to stay.  And for the ones accepting the bonus, they most likely were going to stay to 20 years anyway, bonus or not.  The problem is rooted in today's AF culture.  And until leadership grasps how their actions are driving people away, money is not going to fix a thing.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Or they could just up their bonuses for aviators. It isn't rocket science, and most of these guys would probably prefer to hit 20 and snag their retirement.
While you would think this would be the case, it doesn't reflect reality.  The bonus is a non-factor for 95% of guys today, in my opinion.  Sure, there are a few fence-sitters, but for the majority of the ones getting out, there isn't a dollar amount that would convince them to stay.  And for the ones accepting the bonus, they most likely were going to stay to 20 years anyway, bonus or not.  The problem is rooted in today's AF culture.  And until leadership grasps how their actions are driving people away, money is not going to fix a thing.
As I have said for year...the worst deal at the airlines, beats the best deal in the military.
Top Top