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Posted: 10/2/2005 3:44:16 PM EDT
Sept. 29, 2005, 8:05PM

Teen driver who killed teacher convicted of murder

By DALE LEZON
Copyright 2005 Houston Chronicle

A jury that could have opted for a lesser charge convicted a Katy teenager of murder Thursday for running down an elementary school teacher last year as the woman walked her dog.

Breanna Zipf, 18, wiped tears from her eyes as state District Judge Brock Thomas announced the verdict. The trial's punishment phase, in which she faces a sentence ranging from probation to life in prison, is scheduled to begin today.

"We're all very disappointed," defense attorney Richard Frankoff said.

Jurors took about three hours to find Zipf guilty in the death of Gwendolen Davey, who was struck by a rented car the teen was driving July 23, 2004. They also could have convicted her of manslaughter or negligent homicide.

Davey, 38, who taught at Chambers Elementary in the Alief school district, was hit while walking her dog in her Katy-area neighborhood. She died at the scene, in the 20100 block of Sun Glen.

Her family declined to comment after the verdict.

Authorities said Zipf had taken her mother's rental car without permission and was returning home from a fast-food restaurant when she apparently blacked out.

In closing statements Thursday, Frankoff acknowledged that Zipf was driving the car that struck Davey, but added that "there are accidents."

"Ms. Zipf is not guilty of murder," Frankoff said.

Harris County Assistant District Attorney Jennifer Cook said that, though Zipf did not intentionally kill Davey, she made decisions that led to her death. She said Zipf, who was 17 then, drove to a Jack in the Box after a night of smoking marijuana and about three hours of sleep.

"This case is about the defendant having a selfish need, a selfish desire to satisfy her hunger," Cook said. "Two tacos with extra sour cream: That's what Gwendolen Davey died for."

Cook also said Zipf drove without a license, was speeding and ran a stop sign. Authorities also said Zipf drove even though she knew she had periodic blackouts because of past drug use. In addition, Cook said, the rental company had specified that Zipf was not to drive the car because she is younger than 21.

dale.lezon@chron.com


Why doesnt driving stoned carry the same social stigma as driving drunk?
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 3:46:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/2/2005 3:47:51 PM EDT by falaholic1]
Why? She was blacking out and had 3 hours of sleep. If you are blacking out on pot, you should quit ALL drug use, including alcohol.

There is an obvious difference between driving on weed and drunk.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 3:49:57 PM EDT
I hope she rots in hell after suffering from something like cancer or aids for a few years. I hate drunk drivers and i hate drug users oh its not my fault i was high
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 3:50:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By falaholic1:
Why? She was blacking out and had 3 hours of sleep. If you are blacking out on pot, you should quit ALL drug use, including alcohol.

There is an obvious difference between driving on weed and drunk.



No, there is not.

Many people 'feel' that they have the same reflexes and ability and some might. Some people can also drinka fifth of Vodka and walk a straight line. Driving while stoned is a major factor in accidents. Your reflexes and ability to make sound judgements are impaired . . . just like you had been drinking. Worse, even, because you don't feel as impaired.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 3:51:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/2/2005 3:52:28 PM EDT by AR15fan]

Originally Posted By falaholic1:
There is an obvious difference between driving on weed and drunk.


Both result in decreased reaction times, inability to track straight withen a lane, alter depth perception and periferal vision. What are the "obvious differences" you refer to?

Some pot entusiasts claim they driver better stoned, becuase they are paranoid about getting pulled over. i have heard many drunks make the same arguement.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 3:52:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Jame_Retief:

Originally Posted By falaholic1:
Why? She was blacking out and had 3 hours of sleep. If you are blacking out on pot, you should quit ALL drug use, including alcohol.

There is an obvious difference between driving on weed and drunk.



No, there is not.

Many people 'feel' that they have the same reflexes and ability and some might. Some people can also drinka fifth of Vodka and walk a straight line. Driving while stoned is a major factor in accidents. Your reflexes and ability to make sound judgements are impaired . . . just like you had been drinking. Worse, even, because you don't feel as impaired.



Yes, there is.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 3:58:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Some pot entusiasts claim they driver better stoned, becuase they are paranoid about getting pulled over. i have heard many drunks make the same arguement.



DUI is DUI, no matter what the driver is under the influence of.

My stance on simple possession is well known on this forum, but intoxication led to an innocent's death and that should not be tolerated.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 3:59:11 PM EDT
Drive drunk=rot in prison.
Drive on dope=rot in prison.

'Nuff said.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 4:00:32 PM EDT
Marijuana is such a harmless drug, I mean it's not like you can OD from it or anything. Harmless I say!
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 4:03:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:
Marijuana is such a harmless drug, I mean it's not like you can OD from it or anything. Harmless I say!


You must be acting sarcastic, cause I call bullshit.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 4:06:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/2/2005 4:06:52 PM EDT by Spade]

Originally Posted By falaholic1:


Yes, there is.




No, there isn't.

DUI is DUI. Changes your perception, reaction time etc.

Driving after smoking weed is no different than driving drunk, or driving tired, etc.

Driving Under the INFLUENCE. Jeez. Even stoners talk about all the stuff it does to you. That's why they smoke it, for Chrit's sake. If it didn't influence you, nobody would smoke the shit.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 4:06:45 PM EDT
Only thing worse than a stoned driver is a stoned and drunk driver.


Article Last Updated: Friday, September 30, 2005 - 5:20:03 PM EST

Driver Faces Manslaughter Charge for Accident

By Christopher Falvo HYPERLINK mailto:cfalvo@bcnnew.com cfalvo@bcnnew.com

The 18-year-old driver involved in the early September accident that fatally injured his friend was arrested by warrant last Friday on charges of manslaughter and impaired driving, Greenwich police said. Evan Kimia, of 951 Lake Ave., appeared at police headquarters, with his attorney Mickey Sherman, on Sept. 23 after being advised of the warrant. Kimia was charged with second-degree manslaughter with a motor vehicle, driving under the influence under 21 years of age, possession of drug paraphernalia and traveling too fast for conditions, according to a police report.
"I've not seen the state's arrest warrant," said Sherman. "It's premature to make any comments on the allegations. "The only thing I know for sure is this is a genuine tragedy." Justin Brown, 18, of Cos Cob, was killed during the Sept. 2 crash, when Kimia lost control of his Saab while negotiating a left curve on Round Hill Road at 12:43 a.m. Headed south, the vehicle struck a tree, spun counter clockwise and hit a stone wall before coming to rest approximately 40 feet from the initial impact, according to Sgt. Timothy Berry, head of the department's Collision Reconstruction Unit.

"He tried to correct (the car), looking at some tire marks in the road, and then he overcorrected and that's what took him off the road," said Berry. A police investigation revealed Kimia was traveling in excess of 50 mph in the 35-mph zone, said Berry. An exact speed of the car was not determined. "Our investigation determined he was traveling too fast for that curve," Berry explained. Police deemed 50 mph as the critical speed for the curve on which Kimia lost control of the car. The infraction for traveling too fast for conditions stems from Kimia's excessive speed while navigating the curve. Both alcohol and marijuana were found in Kimia's system, according to blood tests taken at Stamford Hospital the night of the accident. A pipe used for smoking pot was found in the wreckage, said Berry.

Police have yet to learn where Brown and Kimia, both 2005 Greenwich High School graduates, were coming from at the time of the accident. "(Kimia) is not talking under the advice of his attorney," said Berry. Brown was last seen around 4:30 p.m. at home by his mother before being picked up by Kimia, according to Berry. Brown, an electronic musician, was enrolled at Norwalk Community College with plans to transfer to the University of Connecticut. Kimia was released on a $100,000 surety bond and is scheduled to appear in state Superior Court in Stamford today.


Link Posted: 10/2/2005 4:13:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Only thing worse than a stoned driver is a stoned and drunk driver.


Article Last Updated: Friday, September 30, 2005 - 5:20:03 PM EST

Driver Faces Manslaughter Charge for Accident

By Christopher Falvo HYPERLINK mailto:cfalvo@bcnnew.com cfalvo@bcnnew.com

The 18-year-old driver involved in the early September accident that fatally injured his friend was arrested by warrant last Friday on charges of manslaughter and impaired driving, Greenwich police said. Evan Kimia, of 951 Lake Ave., appeared at police headquarters, with his attorney Mickey Sherman, on Sept. 23 after being advised of the warrant. Kimia was charged with second-degree manslaughter with a motor vehicle, driving under the influence under 21 years of age, possession of drug paraphernalia and traveling too fast for conditions, according to a police report.
"I've not seen the state's arrest warrant," said Sherman. "It's premature to make any comments on the allegations. "The only thing I know for sure is this is a genuine tragedy." Justin Brown, 18, of Cos Cob, was killed during the Sept. 2 crash, when Kimia lost control of his Saab while negotiating a left curve on Round Hill Road at 12:43 a.m. Headed south, the vehicle struck a tree, spun counter clockwise and hit a stone wall before coming to rest approximately 40 feet from the initial impact, according to Sgt. Timothy Berry, head of the department's Collision Reconstruction Unit.

"He tried to correct (the car), looking at some tire marks in the road, and then he overcorrected and that's what took him off the road," said Berry. A police investigation revealed Kimia was traveling in excess of 50 mph in the 35-mph zone, said Berry. An exact speed of the car was not determined. "Our investigation determined he was traveling too fast for that curve," Berry explained. Police deemed 50 mph as the critical speed for the curve on which Kimia lost control of the car. The infraction for traveling too fast for conditions stems from Kimia's excessive speed while navigating the curve. Both alcohol and marijuana were found in Kimia's system, according to blood tests taken at Stamford Hospital the night of the accident. A pipe used for smoking pot was found in the wreckage, said Berry.

Police have yet to learn where Brown and Kimia, both 2005 Greenwich High School graduates, were coming from at the time of the accident. "(Kimia) is not talking under the advice of his attorney," said Berry. Brown was last seen around 4:30 p.m. at home by his mother before being picked up by Kimia, according to Berry. Brown, an electronic musician, was enrolled at Norwalk Community College with plans to transfer to the University of Connecticut. Kimia was released on a $100,000 surety bond and is scheduled to appear in state Superior Court in Stamford today.




+1. Shoulda been NO bond.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 4:13:44 PM EDT
This is what they should do to people when caught driving drunk or stoned.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 4:51:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Jame_Retief:

Originally Posted By falaholic1:
Why? She was blacking out and had 3 hours of sleep. If you are blacking out on pot, you should quit ALL drug use, including alcohol.

There is an obvious difference between driving on weed and drunk.



No, there is not.

Many people 'feel' that they have the same reflexes and ability and some might. Some people can also drinka fifth of Vodka and walk a straight line. Driving while stoned is a major factor in accidents. Your reflexes and ability to make sound judgements are impaired . . . just like you had been drinking. Worse, even, because you don't feel as impaired.



No, driving while stoned is not a major factor in accidents, according to the US Federal Government's own research. Alcohol accounts for about half of all accidents with fatigue taking about half of the rest. Research done in Australia and the Netherlands has shown that people who are experienced with being stoned on marijuana are aware of the difference in the way they feel and are able to adequately compensate -- to the extent that they may be slightly safer on the road than sober drivers.

In this case, I would say that fatigue and the fact that it was a 17-year-old (who are known to be idiots) were the major factors.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 4:55:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By falaholic1:
There is an obvious difference between driving on weed and drunk.


Both result in decreased reaction times, inability to track straight withen a lane, alter depth perception and periferal vision. What are the "obvious differences" you refer to?

Some pot entusiasts claim they driver better stoned, becuase they are paranoid about getting pulled over. i have heard many drunks make the same arguement.



The difference is that pot smokers can point to actual research which backs up those claims. In 1980, Road and Track did a story called "Puff, the Dangerous Driver." The object was to prove that smoking pot is bad for driving. They took two groups of drivers and gave one alcohol and the other weed. They would have them each take a dose and then drive a prescribed course. Whooooops! The alcohol drinkers were quickly clearly out of control, while the pot smokers just got better at the course -- faster times with fewer pylons knocked over.

Other research has shown that (for experienced smokers), the heaviest doses of pot get up to the impairment level that is about equivalent to someone who blew .08 on the alcohol breathalyzer -- borderline drunk, at worst.

The bottom line is that pot doesn't destroy motor coordination the way alcohol does.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 4:56:11 PM EDT
Good murderers should be in jail.

however drug users and alcoholics should not be in jail merely for using drugs or alcohol.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 4:59:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By falaholic1:

Originally Posted By Jame_Retief:

Originally Posted By falaholic1:
Why? She was blacking out and had 3 hours of sleep. If you are blacking out on pot, you should quit ALL drug use, including alcohol.

There is an obvious difference between driving on weed and drunk.



No, there is not.

Many people 'feel' that they have the same reflexes and ability and some might. Some people can also drinka fifth of Vodka and walk a straight line. Driving while stoned is a major factor in accidents. Your reflexes and ability to make sound judgements are impaired . . . just like you had been drinking. Worse, even, because you don't feel as impaired.



Yes, there is.



Let me guess,....you smoke and drive. But, the difference is you know how to handle it right?.....yeah

That sounds like Felony stupid to me.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 5:07:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By OFFascist:
Good murderers should be in jail.

however drug users and alcoholics should not be in jail merely for using drugs or alcohol.



Nope, but they should be when they get behind the wheel.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 5:10:56 PM EDT
What, did everyone miss the line about her black-outs being caused by prior drug use?

This girl had already f*cked her brain up on coke/meth/etc - that's what caused this accident, not pot or lack of sleep.

Face it, she was already dangerous, it's too bad she had to take someone out before she offs herself.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 5:11:20 PM EDT
wolfman, you can throw out all the science you want. It's not going to make an impact. It's like arguing with the 9/11 conspiracy theorists at DU; they just believe, and that's all there is to it.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 5:13:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By leo6223:

Originally Posted By falaholic1:

Originally Posted By Jame_Retief:

Originally Posted By falaholic1:
Why? She was blacking out and had 3 hours of sleep. If you are blacking out on pot, you should quit ALL drug use, including alcohol.

There is an obvious difference between driving on weed and drunk.



No, there is not.

Many people 'feel' that they have the same reflexes and ability and some might. Some people can also drinka fifth of Vodka and walk a straight line. Driving while stoned is a major factor in accidents. Your reflexes and ability to make sound judgements are impaired . . . just like you had been drinking. Worse, even, because you don't feel as impaired.



Yes, there is.



Let me guess,....you smoke and drive. But, the difference is you know how to handle it right?.....yeah

That sounds like Felony stupid to me.



I don't know, he certainly makes a strong arguement for his stance.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 5:35:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ShellGhost:
What, did everyone miss the line about her black-outs being caused by prior drug use?




"black outs" are one of the most common vehiclular homicide defenses. She didnt "black out" she was stoned, had the munchies and was racing to get her tacos when she killed the woman. Most vehicular homicide suspects will claim "blackouts" just like many drunk drivers claim the "fell asleep."
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 5:37:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/2/2005 5:39:18 PM EDT by AR15fan]

Originally Posted By wolfman97:
The bottom line is that pot doesn't destroy motor coordination the way alcohol does.



So do you believe marijuana influence does not impair driving at all? Or just not as severly as alcohol?
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 5:47:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By wolfman97:
The bottom line is that pot doesn't destroy motor coordination the way alcohol does.



So do you believe marijuana influence does not impair driving at all? Or just not as severly as alcohol?



Question have you ever smoked weed in your life?? If you havent just shut the hell up. When I drive stoned (rarely)the only thing that I do differently is drive a little slower in the night. My vision is just the same. Drunk people can't even walk a straight line....Stoned people can.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 5:58:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By wolfman97:
The bottom line is that pot doesn't destroy motor coordination the way alcohol does.



So do you believe marijuana influence does not impair driving at all? Or just not as severly as alcohol?



For new users who aren't used to the effects, the impairment is likely to be significant.

For experienced users the net impairment will be from negligible (i.e., can't really be recorded by science with any reliability) up to about the equivalent of a .08 blood alcohol reading (i.e., impaired in a legal sense, but just barely.) I would bet that most experienced marijuana smokers could pass the standard field sobriety tests even while still puffing the joint. Most of them report that is one reason they prefer marijuana to alcohol -- the "high" is much more controllable and almost never as severe as alcohol. They don't like being incoherent and out of control.

FWIW, the safest driver I ever knew completed more than two million miles on the road without a single ticket or an accident. He says he drove nearly all of it stoned on pot, often smoking while he drove. An individual case just proves an individual case, of course.

I would recommend that people don't partake of anything stronger than coffee if they plan to drive, as my personal opinion, and I don't have much patience for anyone who gets behind the wheel while actually impaired on anything, including lack of sleep.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 6:04:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By wolfman97:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By wolfman97:
The bottom line is that pot doesn't destroy motor coordination the way alcohol does.



So do you believe marijuana influence does not impair driving at all? Or just not as severly as alcohol?



For new users who aren't used to the effects, the impairment is likely to be significant.

For experienced users the net impairment will be from negligible (i.e., can't really be recorded by science with any reliability) up to about the equivalent of a .08 blood alcohol reading (i.e., impaired in a legal sense, but just barely.) I would bet that most experienced marijuana smokers could pass the standard field sobriety tests even while still puffing the joint. Most of them report that is one reason they prefer marijuana to alcohol -- the "high" is much more controllable and almost never as severe as alcohol. They don't like being incoherent and out of control.

FWIW, the safest driver I ever knew completed more than two million miles on the road without a single ticket or an accident. He says he drove nearly all of it stoned on pot, often smoking while he drove. An individual case just proves an individual case, of course.

I would recommend that people don't partake of anything stronger than coffee if they plan to drive, as my personal opinion, and I don't have much patience for anyone who gets behind the wheel while actually impaired on anything, including lack of sleep.



Impaired is impaired. Enough said.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 6:09:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/2/2005 6:12:20 PM EDT by AR15fan]

Originally Posted By wolfman97:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By wolfman97:
The bottom line is that pot doesn't destroy motor coordination the way alcohol does.



So do you believe marijuana influence does not impair driving at all? Or just not as severly as alcohol?



For new users who aren't used to the effects, the impairment is likely to be significant.

For experienced users the net impairment will be from negligible (i.e., can't really be recorded by science with any reliability) up to about the equivalent of a .08 blood alcohol reading (i.e., impaired in a legal sense, but just barely.) I would bet that most experienced marijuana smokers could pass the standard field sobriety tests even while still puffing the joint.



Maybe, but the altered time perception may make the rhomberg tough to "pass" as well as resulting in their count being off on the one legged stand.That altered time perception results in unsafe driving such as following too close, under or overestimating stopping distances.

Link Posted: 10/2/2005 6:18:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By wolfman97:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By wolfman97:
The bottom line is that pot doesn't destroy motor coordination the way alcohol does.



So do you believe marijuana influence does not impair driving at all? Or just not as severly as alcohol?



For new users who aren't used to the effects, the impairment is likely to be significant.

For experienced users the net impairment will be from negligible (i.e., can't really be recorded by science with any reliability) up to about the equivalent of a .08 blood alcohol reading (i.e., impaired in a legal sense, but just barely.) I would bet that most experienced marijuana smokers could pass the standard field sobriety tests even while still puffing the joint.



Maybe, but the altered time perception may make the rhomberg tough to "pass" as well as resulting in their count being off on the one legged stand.That altered time perception results in unsafe driving such as following too close, under or overestimating stopping distances.




I would disagree with you. I have seen a few pot smokers do that stuff with no real problem. Not that the Rohmberg test is necessarily a good test, anyway. See www.duiblog.com/discuss/msgReader$12 for example.

Pot smokers are aware of altered time perception and the fact that their thinking is different. The studies show that they are able to adequately compensate for those effects, and may even over-compensate. That is, instead of following too closely, they tend to put more space between them and other cars.

Just my personal observation, but it appears to me that alcohol drinkers are more likely to follow closely -- perhaps because it is associated with aggression.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 6:37:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By wolfman97:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By wolfman97:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By wolfman97:
The bottom line is that pot doesn't destroy motor coordination the way alcohol does.



So do you believe marijuana influence does not impair driving at all? Or just not as severly as alcohol?



For new users who aren't used to the effects, the impairment is likely to be significant.

For experienced users the net impairment will be from negligible (i.e., can't really be recorded by science with any reliability) up to about the equivalent of a .08 blood alcohol reading (i.e., impaired in a legal sense, but just barely.) I would bet that most experienced marijuana smokers could pass the standard field sobriety tests even while still puffing the joint.



Maybe, but the altered time perception may make the rhomberg tough to "pass" as well as resulting in their count being off on the one legged stand.That altered time perception results in unsafe driving such as following too close, under or overestimating stopping distances.




I would disagree with you. I have seen a few pot smokers do that stuff with no real problem. Not that the Rohmberg test is necessarily a good test, anyway. See www.duiblog.com/discuss/msgReader$12



Interesting website, but he essentially states that the FSTs are not scientifically validated, which is false. The NHTSA approved test all have plenty of validated scientific study behind them.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 6:58:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Interesting website, but he essentially states that the FSTs are not scientifically validated, which is false. The NHTSA approved test all have plenty of validated scientific study behind them.



I wouldn't claim to be an expert on that, except to note that anything that requires interpretation by an individual can be subject to error.

Regardless, I have seen pot smokers do that test with no problem at all. Likewise with reciting the alphabet, etc. In fact, I recall one who offered to recite the alphabet backwards and forwards while smoking, and did so with no problem.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 6:59:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:
Marijuana is such a harmless drug, I mean it's not like you can OD from it or anything. Harmless I say!



+1
Ya, that's it, lets blame everyone and everyting else except for the marijuana use.

TOP TEN REASONS Breanna Zipf is not responsible:

10.) "She is a product of disfunctional family"
9.) "It's the car's fault"
8.) "It's the teacher's fault for being out after school"
7.) "She is bi-polar and therefore not responsible"
6.) "She is, she has, she was, yada yada yada whatever, she is not responsible"
5.) "It's the cops fault"
4.) "It's the rental company's fault"
3.) "It's the Taco places fault"
2.) "She was molested when she was younger, it's not her fault"

and the #1 reason why she is not responsible:

"It's George Bush fault" (Had to throw that one in )


Link Posted: 10/2/2005 7:02:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SgtWhiting:

Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:
Marijuana is such a harmless drug, I mean it's not like you can OD from it or anything. Harmless I say!



+1
Ya, that's it, lets blame everyone and everyting else except for the marijuana use.

TOP TEN REASONS Breanna Zipf is not responsible:

10.) "She is a product of disfunctional family"
9.) "It's the car's fault"
8.) "It's the teacher's fault for being out after school"
7.) "She is bi-polar and therefore not responsible"
6.) "She is, she has, she was, yada yada yada whatever, she is not responsible"
5.) "It's the cops fault"
4.) "It's the rental company's fault"
3.) "It's the Taco places fault"
2.) "She was molested when she was younger, it's not her fault"

and the #1 reason why she is not responsible:

"It's George Bush fault" (Had to throw that one in )





Just curious -- did anyone besides you have this hallucination?
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 3:59:18 AM EDT
If pot drastically decreases motor function, why can some friends beat my ass in some online games, but usually when they are stoned??
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 4:25:21 AM EDT
I thought there was some medical test in Europe a while back where they ran a guy on a track in a high performance car after he got blooted and there was no significant difference in his motor skills, response time, etc...

I can't remember where I read it right off hand, but I do remember it.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 4:25:55 AM EDT
Okay, the issue with Zipf was not so much the pot smoking, but ecstacy use. Her past use of ecstacy causes her to have blackouts and that was one reason she did not have a drivers license. Apparently she had experienced other episodes of blacking out while driving and that is what resulted in the teacher being killed.


PS: she got 10 years probation.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 4:27:48 AM EDT
She was driving under the influence (the influence of an illegal substance). She killed an innocent person. She should GO TO JAIL FOR LIFE.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 5:37:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/3/2005 5:39:49 AM EDT by dreemweaver]
FIrst things first....DUI is DUI, we should all be able to agree there.

But damn some of you people here are heartless and or ignorant and some are both. First of all Mairjuana's effect cannot be compared to Alcohol, two very different things. When is the last time you seen a pot head fall down because of a lack of coordination? It doesn't happen. Does it effect judgement and motor skills? Yes but no where near the level that alcohol does.

Secondly I agree this girl should spend considerable time in jail, but life...no. She made an unthinkable error, but she did not murder anybody. She is defininetly gulty of vehicular homicide, but not murder.

The wholier than thou attidude is really sad. I truely hope your teenage son or daughter never makes a mistake. Most of us have done some pretty dumb things as teenagers, luckily most of us did not suffer for them like the people involved in this situation will. And to the people that have never done anything stupid...well then congrats you are a 1%er.

I'm sure many people here are Christians...so how about you live up to the standards you hold in such high regards. Just a thought I don't actually expect it to happen.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 6:57:38 AM EDT
There is deffinatly something else wrong with her other than smoking weed, but what is wrong is shes doing drugs that make her black out after the fact. She is seriously fucked up and I would actualy also hold the parents responsible too. This is obviously something that she has being doing for some time.

At first you think the jury is nuts and she should be getting manslaughter. Then you read about her past and why she blacks out. She is trash and should be sent to the dump and buried with the rest of it.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 7:13:19 AM EDT
Well . . . Im one of those that can down a 1/5 of vodka and "feel" fine -

I know I would be able to drive - I could do the cha cha on one foot - GO into summersalts - Althought i cant say the ABC's backwards (cant do that sober) . . . But i certainly WOULD NEVER DRIVE! -

From personal exprience - although ive NEVER driven under the influence of anything -
I did fall asleep at the wheel once - Totaled my car - Broke a telephone pole in half -

And comparing my drinking exprience with that - I can see how driving REALLY tired is worse than being drunk . . . But being "high" and "Tired" - thats a DEADLY combo (as it turned out to be for the teacher)

There are accidents yes - But this wasnt an accident - You dont "Accidently" get high - and you dont "accidently" get the munchies and go for a mid night snack . . .


Link Posted: 10/3/2005 7:48:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Jerret:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By wolfman97:
The bottom line is that pot doesn't destroy motor coordination the way alcohol does.



So do you believe marijuana influence does not impair driving at all? Or just not as severly as alcohol?



Question have you ever smoked weed in your life?? If you havent just shut the hell up. When I drive stoned (rarely)the only thing that I do differently is drive a little slower in the night. My vision is just the same. Drunk people can't even walk a straight line....Stoned people can.



Let me get this straight... you admit to doing illegal drugs - AND DRIVING?! Please, please, stay in OH.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 8:03:18 AM EDT
Just because she smoked some weed the night before doesn't mean she was high when she hit her.

She should not have been driving because of her blackouts.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 8:05:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/3/2005 8:08:06 AM EDT by DuBri]
Pot has a built in defence mechanism... paranoia. I strongly suspect that the reason we dont see as many 'stoned' only car crashes is that users new to the drug are overwhelmed by anxiety at the thought of driving. What if I get pulled over, crash, etc? So, they stay put and sit on their ass eating junk food until the impairment wears off. Once they are experienced users, such as in the aformentioned studies, they can cope with the impairment. Its essentially the same with alcohol, my father has always warned me of driving on major party holidays... "Its not the alcoholics that kill you, they drive drunk all the time, its the amateur drunks you have to watch out for." Amateur drunks get giddy and think they can do anything, why the hell else would it be called 'liquid courage.' Marijuana is most certainly not 'smokable' courage.


EDIT: And in this case I think the stupid bitch flat out should not have been driving. Anyone who knows they are prone to blackouts should not get behind the wheel, especially not stoned, tired. She didnt have a license anyway, nor was she insured or contractually allowed to use the car either.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 8:53:19 AM EDT
Another pot head who killed

Driver in CHP crash had prior DUI
By Debbie Pfeiffer Trunnell and Sandy Mazza, Staff Writers

WHITTIER -- Whittier Court records reveal that Rudy Lopez, the accused killer of California Highway Patrol motor officer David Romero, had a string of arrests and convictions dating back seven years and was driving on probation for a misdemeanor driving-under-the-influence conviction when he allegedly rammed his car into Officer Romero's motorcycle last Friday.
Lopez, 26, of Whittier faces arraignment Oct. 28 on charges of manslaughter while intoxicated and murder, which could result in a life sentence for him if he is convicted, said Sandi Gibbons, spokeswoman for the Los Angeles County District Attorney's Office.

An examination of Whittier Court documents reveals the following cases:

- Lopez first entered the local court system at the age of 19, when he was fined and given 24 months' probation for several misdemeanors.

- That same year, he violated probation several times and was sentenced to four months in Los Angeles County Jail after being convicted again of being under the influence of a controlled substance and in possession of drug paraphernalia.

- He was convicted of possessing marijuana in December, 2002. He completed a drug program in lieu of other penalties.

- In November 2003 he was convicted of driving while under the influence of alcohol. Tests showed he had nearly twice the legal blood-alcohol limit at the time of the arrest. He was given three years' probation and a fine and was ordered into a three-month drug and alcohol counseling program.

Then came 9:50 a.m. Friday, Sept. 23.

CHO officer David Romero, 47, was stopped at a red light at Turnbull Canyon Road and Valley Boulevard in Industry. Reports said the officer saw the car bearing down on him and tried to wave off the driver. The car never stopped, said witnesses.

The officer was airlifted to Los Angeles County-USC Medical Center, where he was pronounced dead on arrival.

On impact between the Monte Carlo and CHP motorcycle, "both vehicles were propelled into the intersection," according to the CHP.

Deputies at sheriff's Industry Station are handling the investigation.

Sheriff's homicide detectives are continuing their search for witnesses to the traffic collision.

"There were no less than 20 or 30 people there at the time of the collision," Los Angeles County homicide Detective Bill Marsh said. "A lot of people left the scene."

Detectives are seeking information, specifically from those who work in the area and those who were driving east or west on Valley Boulevard, or north or south on Turnbull Canyon Road at the time of the incident.

Anyone with information can contact Detective Bill Marsh at the Sheriff's Homicide Bureau, at (323) 890-5500.

Romero, a 23-year CHP veteran and father of five, spent most of his career working out of the CHP's Santa Fe Springs office. He was a motorcycle officer for 21 years.

Gov. Arnold Scharzenegger and more than 1,000 uniformed officers attended Romero's funeral in Downey on Wednesday.


Link Posted: 10/3/2005 9:02:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Another pot head who killed

Driver in CHP crash had prior DUI
By Debbie Pfeiffer Trunnell and Sandy Mazza, Staff Writers

WHITTIER -- Whittier Court records reveal that Rudy Lopez, the accused killer of California Highway Patrol motor officer David Romero, had a string of arrests and convictions dating back seven years and was driving on probation for a misdemeanor driving-under-the-influence conviction when he allegedly rammed his car into Officer Romero's motorcycle last Friday.
Lopez, 26, of Whittier faces arraignment Oct. 28 on charges of manslaughter while intoxicated and murder, which could result in a life sentence for him if he is convicted, said Sandi Gibbons, spokeswoman for the Los Angeles County District Attorney's Office.

An examination of Whittier Court documents reveals the following cases:

- Lopez first entered the local court system at the age of 19, when he was fined and given 24 months' probation for several misdemeanors.

- That same year, he violated probation several times and was sentenced to four months in Los Angeles County Jail after being convicted again of being under the influence of a controlled substance and in possession of drug paraphernalia.

- He was convicted of possessing marijuana in December, 2002. He completed a drug program in lieu of other penalties.

- In November 2003 he was convicted of driving while under the influence of alcohol. Tests showed he had nearly twice the legal blood-alcohol limit at the time of the arrest. He was given three years' probation and a fine and was ordered into a three-month drug and alcohol counseling program.

Then came 9:50 a.m. Friday, Sept. 23.

CHO officer David Romero, 47, was stopped at a red light at Turnbull Canyon Road and Valley Boulevard in Industry. Reports said the officer saw the car bearing down on him and tried to wave off the driver. The car never stopped, said witnesses.

The officer was airlifted to Los Angeles County-USC Medical Center, where he was pronounced dead on arrival.

On impact between the Monte Carlo and CHP motorcycle, "both vehicles were propelled into the intersection," according to the CHP.

Deputies at sheriff's Industry Station are handling the investigation.

Sheriff's homicide detectives are continuing their search for witnesses to the traffic collision.

"There were no less than 20 or 30 people there at the time of the collision," Los Angeles County homicide Detective Bill Marsh said. "A lot of people left the scene."

Detectives are seeking information, specifically from those who work in the area and those who were driving east or west on Valley Boulevard, or north or south on Turnbull Canyon Road at the time of the incident.

Anyone with information can contact Detective Bill Marsh at the Sheriff's Homicide Bureau, at (323) 890-5500.

Romero, a 23-year CHP veteran and father of five, spent most of his career working out of the CHP's Santa Fe Springs office. He was a motorcycle officer for 21 years.

Gov. Arnold Scharzenegger and more than 1,000 uniformed officers attended Romero's funeral in Downey on Wednesday.





Other than the fact that this guy obviously has lots of behavioral problems (not just smoking pot, etc.) why would you think that a three-year-old pot bust would have any real relevance to this incident? He ran his car into a cop. That's some serious deliberate aggression. Pot doesn't cause aggression.

Not that this guy deserves anything less than being gunned down like a mad dog in the street. It just doesn't have much relevance to pot.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 2:15:30 PM EDT
This just in:

Positive Marijuana Result Not Associated With Auto Crash Culpability

Baltimore, MD: Marijuana use, as indicated by
the presence of cannabis metabolites, is not
associated with crash culpability among injured
drivers, according to data presented at the
annual conference of the Association for the
Advancement of Automotive Medicine.

Researchers at the University of Maryland's
National Center for Trauma and EMS obtained
clinical toxicology reports for more than 2,500
injured drivers to identify the presence of
alcohol, cocaine, and marijuana. Authors found
that drivers who tested positive for alcohol in
the blood had" significantly higher crash
culpability" than sober drivers. Authors further
found a "significant association" between
cocaine use and crash culpability for male
drivers between 21 and 40 years of age.

"In contrast, for both men and women, [the]
study did not find an association between crash
culpability and marijuana use," researchers
determined. Drivers between the ages of 41 and
60 who tested positive for marijuana were less
likely to be culpable than drug-free drivers,
they added.

Because researchers based their analysis on the
presence of drug metabolites in the urine rather
than the presence of controlled substances in
blood, authors could not determine whether the
drivers' drug use directly preceded their injury
or had taken place days earlier.

"While the current study does not provide
evidence of cocaine and marijuana impairment, or
use at the time of injury, it provides
information about culpability relative to users
of cocaine and marijuana," authors concluded.
"To clarify the role of marijuana use in crash
culpability, a large study of injured patients
treated in acute care settings using blood tests
to assess for marijuana use proximal to time of
injury would be quite useful."

According to an
www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=6672 analysis
of on-road crashes released earlier this month
by an international expert panel: "The most
meaningful recent culpability studies indicate
that drivers with THC concentrations in whole
blood of less than 5 ng/ml have a crash risk no
higher than that of drug-free users. The crash
risk apparently begins to exceed that of sober
drivers as THC concentrations in whole blood
reach 5-10 ng/ml." Authors added, however,
"Because recent studies involved only a few
drivers with THC concentrations in that critical
range, a reliable assessment of the associated
crash risk is still lacking."

THC blood levels typically fall below 5 ng/ml in
recreational cannabis users within 60 to 90
minutes after inhalation.

For more information, please contact
paul@norml.org Paul Armentano, NORML
Senior Policy Expert, at (202) 483-5500. Full
text of the study, "Crash culpability relative
to age and sex for injured drivers using
alcohol, marijuana or cocaine," appears in the
2005 Annual Proceedings of the Association for
the Advancement of Automotive Medicine.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 3:44:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By wolfman97:

According to an
www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=6672 analysis



There's an unbiased source, LOL!
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 3:46:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:

Originally Posted By wolfman97:

According to an
www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=6672 analysis



There's an unbiased source, LOL!



It told you where you could find the original article, if you were actually interested.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 3:57:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Gator:
If pot drastically decreases motor function, why can some friends beat my ass in some online games, but usually when they are stoned??



hand eye coordination goes up, not down.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 4:01:34 PM EDT
Well, if the court is setting a precedent, I hope it will apply to all DUI related deaths, instead of just those involving illicit drugs.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 4:02:11 PM EDT
Let's sum up the factors

-Stupid Teenage Girl -5 points
-No License -10 points
-Stoned (can make one sleepy) -5 points
-3 hours of sleep -15 points
-Driving to get Jack in Box -20 points

This stupid beoch got what she deserved. Stop thinking about it from her, or her retarded family's persepctive, but of the teacher who died here...
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