Stolen AR15 - AR15.COM

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Posted: 12/13/2003 9:16:20 PM EDT

Can anyone tell me how to find the serial number and Gov't registration of a stolen AR. My insurance company wants the serial number and I can only think of one way of finding it and that's through the registration when I bought it.

Posted: 12/13/2003 9:22:03 PM EDT

[#1]

Do you remember what shop you bought it from? If so a box of doughnuts might grease the wheels for convincing them to pull the 4473 for you.

When I had to file a claim a few years back I didn't get any grief for not being able to supply a serial number or two from my insurance company.

If they give you too much crap drop me a line and I'll give you the techniques I used to get them to pay alot more money than wanted to.

Posted: 12/13/2003 9:22:13 PM EDT

[#2]

Yes your best bet is to contact the gun shop you bought the rifle from. I also write the serial number of a gun on a receipt when I sell one. You will need to contact the selling FFL anyway because he will need to give a price you paid for the gun to the insurance company. If you bought the rifle private then it should be in your own personal records.

Posted: 12/13/2003 9:23:12 PM EDT

[#3]

Go where you bought it and ask to sift thru the 4473s till you find your name. If you bought it in a private sale, be prepared for some detective work to get back to an FFL who has the # on file. You need the name of someone who bought it from an FFL + the name of the FFL to get what you need. Good luck.

Posted: 12/13/2003 9:23:14 PM EDT

[#4]

The police when they take your report will be interested in the serial number also.

Posted: 12/13/2003 9:30:23 PM EDT

[#5]

... Not to hijack but my weapons' serial numbers, and keeping track of them, have become a sanctimonious act for me in the past 10 years. It did not used to be that way. Changing political climate in the country has forced us to keep a closer eye on what we own(ed) and when.

... It's sad really

Posted: 12/13/2003 9:30:51 PM EDT

[#6]

In my personal records? If I had saved it which I should have, I wouldn't be asking for help in retrieving it!
I bought it on AR15.COM and the FFL I had it sent to has died! I need to get into D.C.'s offices to find the number I assume and I need help on contacting someone so I can get it to the insurance company.

Posted: 12/13/2003 9:34:33 PM EDT

[#7]

this is why i keep written and digital copies of pics/serial #s/etc.. of all my firearms

good luck finding yours though!

Posted: 12/13/2003 9:34:36 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
The police when they take your report will be interested in the serial number also.

View Quote

As for the cops, they act like I owned a damn nuclear bomb. They want it as bad as I do and when I told them it was an AR15 they wanted to know WHY I had one!!!

Posted: 12/13/2003 9:49:20 PM EDT

[#9]

I bought it on AR15.COM and the FFL I had it sent to has died!

View Quote

Then the BATF should have his 4473s.
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco & Firearms
Seattle Field Division
(206) 389-5800

they wanted to know WHY I had one!!!

View Quote

Gee maybe because there are plenty of scummy criminals around?

Posted: 12/13/2003 9:57:57 PM EDT

[#10]

Contact the original dealer you bought it from. They should probably have a copy of the 4473 or it logged in their bound book, as long as it wasn't too long ago. When a firearm is stolen, make sure that you always report it to the Police. If you do not have the serial number when you make your initial report, make sure that you re-contact the police when you do find the serial number.

This kind of leads into my Public Service Announcement for the week:

Keep a record of all of your firearms, somewhere, with descriptions, nomneclature and serial numbers. About half of the stolen firearms reports I have taken or encountered in my career had no serial number becuase the owner did not have that information. Those firearms will most likely NEVER be recovered. Stolen guns are entered into a national database and they stay there forever until they are recovered, but only ones with identifiable serial numbers or owner applied numbers are entered. There is a slim chance that if your weapon is found with other stolen prioperty, or in the possession of a felon, then the agency may do a trace through ATF. They send a copy of their report to the local ATF office, and about amonth or two later get a report that says something like:

Colt AR15 Rifle, .223 caliber, Serial#1234567
Manufactured Colt MFG, Hartford, CT 09-1994

Sold to Bob's Firearms Distributors, Atlanta GA, 10-94.

Sold to Bubba's Gunshop, Houston TX, 11-94.

Sold to Bob Smith, 123 Evergreen Street, Sugarland, TX 12-94.

In ATF traces, the agent contacts the manufacturer, who looks up in their records who they sold it to, who does the same thing and so on until they either find the owner, or they lose the weapon in a private party sale, where the paper trail ends. The chain can be easily broken at any point where a private party sale happens, and in any case there are usually gaps of several years. Most firearms that get traced end at some gun store 10 years ago, and the real owner never gets discovered.

In this case, if the Detective has time and follows through with Bob Smith, and you happen to be Bob Smith (or Bob remebers who HE sold the weapons to), then you may be reunited with your lost weapon. But, the Detective has other cases, and that probably never happens. I have returned stolen guns to their owners through traces, but it doesn't happen very often. If you don't know your serial numbers, you will probably never get your guns back.

Posted: 12/13/2003 10:24:07 PM EDT

[#11]

Dead FFL could be a problem when an FFL dealer gives up his license all his records get boxed and sent to a warehouse somewhere. Each time the ATF tries to get these records into a computer somewhere, some pro-gun group calls it registration and gets them shut down. Most likely all this shit is sitting in some box somewhere, never to be found again.

If you bought from an individual I would try and contact them, other than that I think your information you seek is gone forever.

Posted: 12/13/2003 10:32:01 PM EDT

[#12]

I write them all down.......now.............

Had one stolen about this time last year

Posted: 12/14/2003 5:36:54 AM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
Dead FFL could be a problem when an FFL dealer gives up his license all his records get boxed and sent to a warehouse somewhere. Most likely all this shit is sitting in some box somewhere, never to be found again.

If you bought from an individual I would try and contact them, other than that I think your information you seek is gone forever.

View Quote

Probably the same warehouse where they keep the Arc of the Covenant (Spelling) from the first Indiana Jones movie! LOL!!!

Posted: 12/14/2003 6:15:00 AM EDT

[#14]

Besides the obvious, logging in the serial # and other data, either on paper or floppy, I retain the original boxes W/serial numbers and the receipts are kept elsewhere, also bearing the serial #s.
So any numbers are already in 2 places before I copy them down somewhere else.
So if you tossed the original box and receipt and the FFL is gone, good luck on the uphill paper trail.

Posted: 12/14/2003 6:32:04 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
Besides the obvious, logging in the serial # and other data, either on paper or floppy, I retain the original boxes W/serial numbers and the receipts are kept elsewhere, also bearing the serial #s.
So any numbers are already in 2 places before I copy them down somewhere else.
So if you tossed the original box and receipt and the FFL is gone, good luck on the uphill paper trail.

View Quote

Thnaks for your help men but I wanted help in FINDING access to the serial number, not lectures or ideas of how I should have saved the numbers in my records! I know I blew it, I guess I assumed nobody would steal my hard earned property in a rural area of Washington State. My mistake and it's the last time I'll go without documenting anything I purchase which needs paperwork.
Again, I requested help in accessing serial numbers.
Aim straight!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted: 12/14/2003 6:43:48 AM EDT

[#16]

I hate backing D_H, but there is a warehouse. The FFL's do have to send the forms there when the ffl dies/goes out of business.

Posted: 12/14/2003 6:45:14 AM EDT

[#17]

Phil gave you the phone number to call to find the serial number. Good luck.

Posted: 12/14/2003 7:12:00 AM EDT

[#18]

The first step would be finding the name and address of the FFL who has now passed. Then contact ATF, explain your predicament. It has been my experience that when asked for help, they are usually quite happy to assist. Contrary to popular beleif they actually like to be able to say that they helped gun owners solve problems.

Posted: 12/14/2003 7:42:42 AM EDT

[#19]

I have a mini hi-jack, just to make your problems seem a little smaller.

The local police department is looking for an M-4 that walked out of the station in a metal gun case!

Posted: 12/14/2003 8:34:53 AM EDT

[#20]

Uh, my AR was unique and also had legs. Wish I could get specific about it, but the cops are really interested in finding it. Most likely some punk kids who needed some drug money so it may end up in a crime later down the road.
They took one mag and left 2 others sitting on the chest of drawers. What's that tell you?
Dumb fuckin scumbags.
[nuts]

Posted: 12/14/2003 10:01:04 AM EDT

[#21]

Good luck on finding the serial number. I had to go through the same thing earlier this year when 9 of my handguns were stolen. [pissed] I was lucky tho. I still had the original boxes for 8 of them, and my best friend works where I bought the 9th one, so he got me the serial number. Still haven't heard one thing about it. [cuss]

Vulcan94

Posted: 12/14/2003 10:17:19 AM EDT

[#22]

The state police will have the number. They did in Maryland. I had an SAR1 stolen. I saved the receipt, but I couldn't find it one day for my insurance claim and the state police told me the number. If you purchased it in that state, they have a record of it. When I had my SAR1 and my H&K USP ,45 stolen, I went out the next day and bought another gun. The detective called me and asked why I bought another gun. [slap]

Posted: 12/14/2003 10:41:22 AM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
The first step would be finding the name and address of the FFL who has now passed. Then contact ATF, explain your predicament. ...

View Quote

That’s your best answer. ATF keeps those old records available – that’s how they do some traces. Trying to pin down the exact date of the sale would probably be helpful to them (maybe you’ve got a cancelled check or credit card records that would help).

I’m not sure how helpful they’ll be, though; supposedly traces are somewhat resource intensive.

Alternatives might include contacting relatives of the former FFL to see if they might have any personal records remaining, and, as 21DOC mentioned, state records (if any).

Don’t guess you took any photos of it where the SN would be visible? (Yeah, I know, pretty obvious point.)

Anyway, good luck!!

Posted: 12/14/2003 11:17:29 AM EDT

[#24]

Call the ATF.

If they are less than helpful, contact your most gun friendly congressman or senator and ask they make a congressional inquiry on your behalf to the ATF. Play up the "I want to be a responsible gun owner" and the "ATF doesn't want to help" to your rep. (I forget exactly what you call them. When I was active duty, we just called them "Congressionals"

A congressional inquiry will get serious attention, real quick. My in-laws work for the post office and they had a 72 hour deadline to investigate and get a letter back the to the reps office. My father in law had trouble getting a timely passport. He wasted weeks over it. A call to his local rep and Viola! He had his passport overnighted to him a couple of days later.

Posted: 12/14/2003 12:01:55 PM EDT

[#25]

Sounds like the police department you are dealing with is full of shit.

This is right from the ATF.
The fucking police department can ask for a trace by the ATF and do not need your help.
Take this and tell then to do their fucking job.
What police department in WA is it?
Tweak might be able to help.

[url]http://www.atf.gov/firearms/serial.htm[/url]

Serial Numbers
Need Serial Number for Lost or Stolen Firearm?

NOTE:

The Federal Firearms Licensee (dealer) who sold you the firearm must be "out-of-business (OOB)," otherwise we cannot conduct the search.

This request cannot be accepted via internet, it must be mailed.

This is not a firearms trace. Traces are only done for law enforcement agencies.

Follow the instructions below to request a serial number or transaction form:

Submit a check or money order in the amount of $37.50, made payable to ATF and addressed to:

ATF, Disclosure Division Washington, DC 20226;

Name of person who purchased the firearm;

Name of OOB dealer (cannot conduct search without dealer’s name);

Dealer’s address: city, state and zip code (must have city and state);

Date of purchase (or 3 year time frame e.g., between 1989 & 1991);

Provide serial number, if known;

Make of firearm (e.g., Winchester);

Type firearm and caliber or gauge (e.g., rifle, shotgun, revolver; 9mm); and

Include your name, the address where information should be sent and a day time telephone number. Include any helpful comments that could enhance the search.

FOR FURTHER INFORMATION CALL (202) 927- 8480

Posted: 12/14/2003 12:06:32 PM EDT

[#26]

I don't know about MD or WA but most states do not have any type of firearms registration. The only record of the sale is at the local FFL dealer's place of business, then if his shop goes out of business all records are boxed and literally put in a warehouse with all the other records. That is if the family of the dead FFL dealer had any idea what they were supposed to do.

Olympic Arms has had two fires over the years where they have lost all records. They can't even tell you if a rifle they sold is/was a preban or just a receiver.

Posted: 12/14/2003 4:53:37 PM EDT

[#27]

Thank you all for your help! Please,no more posts, I have resolved the problem with your posts and suggestions. This was my blunder by not recording the serial number. I went through my arsenal of weapons, some mass destructive of course, and now have a file on paper and one on my computer of the serial numbers.
Now to catch the little bastards who broke into my home...........
Merry Xmas to all!!
[nuts]

Posted: 12/14/2003 5:51:47 PM EDT

[#28]

Some people just can't handle the truth. I thought I was the biggest ass on the www, till this. Here is our email conversation about this post with the exception of his original contact where he called my advice to him as silly.

Don't remember anything silly on your post, but I will have to reveiew it.
Typically I like to poke people with a stick so if you or someone else said
something stupid I most likely pointed it out.

Thanks for your support.

David Hineline

Oh, one more thing. The second post you sent to the website REALLY shows what a fuckin idiot you are. The police will be interested in the serial number? God all mighty! DUH!!!
Regards Brad

I reveiewed my comments in your post regarding your stolen rifled. I see
nothing silly there, other than your wish to get information from the ATF
that they just do not keep. Untill that weapon is used in a crime and
actually traced, by the ATF I doubt you will ever find any more information
about it. If the rifle was bought new it will be traced from the manuf. to
the distrubutor and to the FFL dealer who sold it then to you. If this
weapon was ever privatly owned in that string then all means to trace the
gun to you is gone. That is one reason that paranoid gun types like to buy
guns privatly at gun shows, because the trace path is broken and can not be
traced to them.

Just because the facts are not what you want to hear does not make them
silly or any less the facts.

David Hineline

First of all, I purchased the AR on AR15.COM. Your reference toward me being paranoid is just what I expected from an arrogant clown like yourself. The reason I even wrote you was because of what you said in your post to me."If you bought the rifle private then it should be in your records." If the serial number had been in my records, you moron, I wouldn't be asking for help in retrieving it, now would I? Now one other thing, go back to my post and read my follow-ups. Then sit back, take a breath and don't write me or anything on my post please. You are a waste of my time and you need to find something other than showing your true self online with your idiotic comments to not just me, but others on AR15.COM.
Your last little snip at me in your email shows me what kind of individual you are, by the way. The facts don't make any difference to me one way or the other. I asked for help and got numerous answers. That was the reason for the post for help in obtaining the serial numbers or access to them. Now I can pursue the serial numbers through the suggestions I received on the post.
Have a great Christmas.
Brad

Looks like I have made another long life friend without even trying.

David Hineline

Posted: 12/14/2003 6:21:59 PM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:
Some people just can't handle the truth. I thought I was the biggest ass on the www, till this. Here is our email conversation about this post with the exception of his original contact where he called my advice to him as silly.

Don't remember anything silly on your post, but I will have to reveiew it.
Typically I like to poke people with a stick so if you or someone else said
something stupid I most likely pointed it out.

Thanks for your support.

David Hineline

Oh, one more thing. The second post you sent to the website REALLY shows what a fuckin idiot you are. The police will be interested in the serial number? God all mighty! DUH!!!
Regards Brad

I reveiewed my comments in your post regarding your stolen rifled. I see
nothing silly there, other than your wish to get information from the ATF
that they just do not keep. Untill that weapon is used in a crime and
actually traced, by the ATF I doubt you will ever find any more information
about it. If the rifle was bought new it will be traced from the manuf. to
the distrubutor and to the FFL dealer who sold it then to you. If this
weapon was ever privatly owned in that string then all means to trace the
gun to you is gone. That is one reason that paranoid gun types like to buy
guns privatly at gun shows, because the trace path is broken and can not be
traced to them.

Just because the facts are not what you want to hear does not make them
silly or any less the facts.

David Hineline

First of all, I purchased the AR on AR15.COM. Your reference toward me being paranoid is just what I expected from an arrogant clown like yourself. The reason I even wrote you was because of what you said in your post to me."If you bought the rifle private then it should be in your records." If the serial number had been in my records, you moron, I wouldn't be asking for help in retrieving it, now would I? Now one other thing, go back to my post and read my follow-ups. Then sit back, take a breath and don't write me or anything on my post please. You are a waste of my time and you need to find something other than showing your true self online with your idiotic comments to not just me, but others on AR15.COM.
Your last little snip at me in your email shows me what kind of individual you are, by the way. The facts don't make any difference to me one way or the other. I asked for help and got numerous answers. That was the reason for the post for help in obtaining the serial numbers or access to them. Now I can pursue the serial numbers through the suggestions I received on the post.
Have a great Christmas.
Brad

Looks like I have made another long life friend without even trying.

David Hineline

Hey Dave, why do you continue to harrass me? Can't handle what truth?????????? The truth?? Tell me! Tell me! And when did I mention anything about getting information from the ATF? Tell me!
Oh, you for some reason left out my initial email to you. It kind of explains your stupidity with your ignorant remarks. AGAIN, I was asking for help in obtaining the serial number, not suggestions as to how or why I should have recorded the serial numbers. I admitted I failed to do so in the post! I don't get it and yes, I did expect this from such a fuckin idiot!! I told you I'd delete any other emails from you and then you post this shit! What the hell is wrong with you anyway? You must have a job of some kind. Or is your life just a big mess and you have to post your bullshit all over this website? READ all of my posts on this matter will you and then leave me the fuck alone! I wonder how many other AR15 members are sick of your bullshit? If anyone is interested, DO A SEARCH ON THIS ASSHOLE and you'll see what a trouble making jerk he is. His posts are just plain first cousin marriage all the way. Do you call your momma auntie or Miss Billy Joe Bob? I bet she goes by Bob, doesn't she Dave.
What is your point anyway? Maybe you're just a punk like the bastards that stole my rifle.
GET A LIFE AND FIND A JOB!!!!
For you DAVE:
[kill]

Posted: 12/14/2003 6:33:34 PM EDT

[#30]

And this persons latest email to me.

You're welcome. You still maintain the biggest MORON status though. Congrats!
Next email will be deleted dude so fuck off you fuckin stupid ass. Tell your momma I said hi and thank her for sucking my cock.
Get a job!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted: 12/14/2003 6:41:41 PM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:
And this persons latest email to me.

You're welcome. You still maintain the biggest MORON status though. Congrats!
Next email will be deleted dude so fuck off you fuckin stupid ass. Tell your momma I said hi and thank her for sucking my cock.
Get a job!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Like I said FUCK OFF! Too bad I can't turn your ass in for harrassing me on AOL. Leave me alone PLEASE!!
I guess I'll call your momma and have her paddle your ass. She spanks me hard at times.

DO A SEARCH ON THIS GUY, HIS COMMENTS ARE PURE STUPIDITY AND AT TIMES HIS ARROGANCE IS COMING THROUGH. JUST A TROUBLE MAKER WITH TIME TO WASTE!!!!!!!!!!!
For you again Dave, this time I'm aiming for your head: [kill]

Posted: 12/14/2003 6:51:02 PM EDT

[#32]

How'd they get into your safe?

Damn that's bad luck, almost as bad as not recording the serial numbers. [:(]

Posted: 12/14/2003 6:55:15 PM EDT

[#33]

And with that exchange I belive that this post has run it's short life.

IBTL.

IM's sent.

Posted: 12/14/2003 6:56:05 PM EDT

[#34]

And with that exchange I belive that this post has run it's short life.

IBTL.

IM's sent.

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