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Posted: 3/15/2011 3:50:10 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 4:13:26 AM EST

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:

Retired Maui police officers spent their careers arresting murderers, robbers and other miscreants. Now, they're questioning why the state has made it difficult for them to carry a concealed firearm under a federal law that allows them to do so.

http://www.mauinews.com/page/content.detail/id/547195/GUN-SHY.html?nav=10

<––––––-for nationwide Constitutional carry.

Welcome back into the barn.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 4:22:40 AM EST
"It's like they are trying to make us go through all of these hoops so we give up and say we don't want to do it," said Maui Police Department retiree Rick Camara, who has applied to carry a concealed firearm in order to protect himself and his family.

Welcome to the nanny state, Mr. Camara.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 4:31:01 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/15/2011 4:31:43 AM EST by HUMONGO]
Originally Posted By dirksterG30:
"It's like they are trying to make us go through all of these hoops so we give up and say we don't want to do it," said Maui Police Department retiree Rick Camara, who has applied to carry a concealed firearm in order to protect himself and his family.

Welcome to the nanny state, Mr. Camara.


It's so hard not to start a pile of cop bashing, but they are citizens like the rest of us. Why should they get special treatment? Why is a cops family more worthy than mine?


Return the right of self defense to every one, not just for those special enough.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 4:31:11 AM EST
Anyone else think it is hilarious when cops complain about having to follow the law? You know the laws they will happily smack you down for not following...but make them follow the same laws and they can't stand it. I have no sympathy for the retired LEOs. I've been smacked around enough by cops "just following procedure", so they just need to suck it up and deal with it. Better yet, work to change the CCW laws for everyone.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 4:33:17 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 4:38:00 AM EST
Originally Posted By HUMONGO:
Originally Posted By dirksterG30:
"It's like they are trying to make us go through all of these hoops so we give up and say we don't want to do it," said Maui Police Department retiree Rick Camara, who has applied to carry a concealed firearm in order to protect himself and his family.

Welcome to the nanny state, Mr. Camara.


It's so hard not to start a pile of cop bashing, but they are citizens like the rest of us. Why should they get special treatment? Why is a cops family more worthy than mine?


Return the right of self defense to every one, not just for those special professional enough.


I had to.

But the point stands. Police officers aren't some magical breed of robots that are immune to poor choices and bad behavior. If they can be 'trusted' to carry firearms, with their human vices and all, then why not the rest of us?

And the training argument doesn't fly. If training were the issue, the average citizen would be permitted to obtain the training (at their own expense, obviously) in order to qualify. In most places that seriously restrict permits (HI, just as the obvious example here), that's not an option.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 4:49:37 AM EST
Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Originally Posted By SWIRE:
Anyone else think it is hilarious when cops complain about having to follow the law? You know the laws they will happily smack you down for not following...but make them follow the same laws and they can't stand it. I have no sympathy for the retired LEOs. I've been smacked around enough by cops "just following procedure", so they just need to suck it up and deal with it. Better yet, work to change the CCW laws for everyone.


The last time nationwide reciprocity was brought up and lost by two votes about half of this site was against it.

Not cops fault it didn't pass, rests at the feet of gun owners.


I'm not sure where I stand on nationwide reciprocity. Sure it would be nice to have have that ability nation wide but do you really want to the federal government to start regulating concealed carry? Will they simply make a law stating that other states need to recognize it the way they do drivers licenses or will they decided to add "common sense regulations" to the law as well. Once they start regulating you know they will never stop. Concealed carry should be left to the states in my opinion, the retired cops that want to carry should work at the state level of their own state and improve concealed carry for everyone.

Link Posted: 3/15/2011 4:53:00 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 4:53:36 AM EST
Originally Posted By Troubl3shooter:
Welcome back into the barn.


[/thread]

Guess you're not so more equal anymore, eh?
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 4:56:25 AM EST
One of the things our retired guys are having a hard time with is getting the agency to furnish letters...
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 4:59:12 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/15/2011 5:00:59 AM EST by HUMONGO]
Originally Posted By SWIRE:
Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Originally Posted By SWIRE:
Anyone else think it is hilarious when cops complain about having to follow the law? You know the laws they will happily smack you down for not following...but make them follow the same laws and they can't stand it. I have no sympathy for the retired LEOs. I've been smacked around enough by cops "just following procedure", so they just need to suck it up and deal with it. Better yet, work to change the CCW laws for everyone.


The last time nationwide reciprocity was brought up and lost by two votes about half of this site was against it.

Not cops fault it didn't pass, rests at the feet of gun owners.


I'm not sure where I stand on nationwide reciprocity. Sure it would be nice to have have that ability nation wide but do you really want to the federal government to start regulating concealed carry? Will they simply make a law stating that other states need to recognize it the way they do drivers licenses or will they decided to add "common sense regulations" to the law as well. Once they start regulating you know they will never stop. Concealed carry should be left to the states in my opinion, the retired cops that want to carry should work at the state level of their own state and improve concealed carry for everyone.



Do you feel that way about driving? What about marriage and other licenses?



While it is overused, it does fall under regulating interstate commerce and it falls wholely under the perview of the federal gov. A Delaware resident can't come into MD and support our economy while carrying a firearm. How is that not impacting interstate commerce?
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 4:59:40 AM EST
The federal law to allow retired LEOs to CCW should be viewed as a small step in the right direction. Any increase in the ability to carry a weapon by anyone should be viewed as a win no matter how minor. The antis have used this tactic with success in the past when arguing for additional restrictions such as waiting periods, approved gun lists, and other hits to the RKBA. It's time we used the same "reasonable" argument when pushing forward on a slow but steady basis towards the ultimate goal of full adherence to the Second Amendment. The political reality is that it's a marathon and not a sprint. Anyone that believes all restrictions on concealed carry, silencers, full auto, etc. will be removed in one fell swoop is out of touch with the real world.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 5:03:42 AM EST
Maui residents to the retired police: "Welcome to the SUCK".

Link Posted: 3/15/2011 5:04:46 AM EST
Originally Posted By SWIRE:
Anyone else think it is hilarious when cops complain about having to follow the law? You know the laws they will happily smack you down for not following...but make them follow the same laws and they can't stand it. I have no sympathy for the retired LEOs. I've been smacked around enough by cops "just following procedure", so they just need to suck it up and deal with it. Better yet, work to change the CCW laws for everyone.


There's nothing wrong, IMOP, for anyone to question the law, as long as you do it legally.

Because, really, those states are in fact using the red tape to attempt to discourage you from owning a firearm.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 5:07:11 AM EST
Originally Posted By HUMONGO:
Originally Posted By dirksterG30:
"It's like they are trying to make us go through all of these hoops so we give up and say we don't want to do it," said Maui Police Department retiree Rick Camara, who has applied to carry a concealed firearm in order to protect himself and his family.

Welcome to the nanny state, Mr. Camara.


It's so hard not to start a pile of cop bashing, but they are citizens like the rest of us. Why should they get special treatment? Why is a cops family more worthy than mine?


Return the right of self defense to every one, not just for those special enough.


This.

They shouldn't have to go through all that BS just to carry a handgun. Neither should anyone else who isn't a dangerous criminal.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 5:08:22 AM EST
Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Originally Posted By SWIRE:
Anyone else think it is hilarious when cops complain about having to follow the law? You know the laws they will happily smack you down for not following...but make them follow the same laws and they can't stand it. I have no sympathy for the retired LEOs. I've been smacked around enough by cops "just following procedure", so they just need to suck it up and deal with it. Better yet, work to change the CCW laws for everyone.


The last time nationwide reciprocity was brought up and lost by two votes about half of this site was against it.

Not cops fault it didn't pass, rests at the feet of gun owners.


Actually, I seem to recall some LE organizations lobbying or advocating against it as well.

Link Posted: 3/15/2011 5:09:53 AM EST
Originally Posted By SWIRE:
Anyone else think it is hilarious when cops complain about having to follow the law? You know the laws they will happily smack you down for not following...but make them follow the same laws and they can't stand it. I have no sympathy for the retired LEOs. I've been smacked around enough by cops "just following procedure", so they just need to suck it up and deal with it. Better yet, work to change the CCW laws for everyone.




I think what the cop was trying to say was "wait... weren't we supposed to be more equal?"
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 5:10:38 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/15/2011 5:14:56 AM EST by HogJaws]
Originally Posted By HUMONGO:
Originally Posted By dirksterG30:
"It's like they are trying to make us go through all of these hoops so we give up and say we don't want to do it," said Maui Police Department retiree Rick Camara, who has applied to carry a concealed firearm in order to protect himself and his family.

Welcome to the nanny state, Mr. Camara.


It's so hard not to start a pile of cop bashing, but they are citizens like the rest of us. Why should they get special treatment? Why is a cops family more worthy than mine?


Return the right of self defense to every one, not just for those special enough.


Cops have more bad guys with a grudge in their face in one week than you and I in our lifetimes combined. I have a close friend who's a cop here in Phoenix, he's had to MOVE, literally sell his home and relocate his wife and 2 young boys because of people harassing him. He calls them his clients. If anyone gets a gun IMO, it's ordinary citizens who have to deal with that BS, i.e. cops. Agree on the rest though, let everyone have the right. Cops aren't special, but they have more reason than anyone else.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 5:12:32 AM EST
Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:



<––––––-for nationwide Constitutional carry.



We don't need any new laws. The 2nd covers it just fine IMHO. If only the states and the Federal Government would interpret the USC correctly, and not the way the want to.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 5:13:26 AM EST
Hey cop bashers, in case you are not noticing the problem here, it is harder to get the LEOSA carry than a standard ccw permit in that state, if I'm reading the article correctly. Now we (the LEO's) aren't as equal as you lowly citizens, we're less... Bash that...
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 5:13:30 AM EST
Originally Posted By HogJaws:
Originally Posted By HUMONGO:
Originally Posted By dirksterG30:
"It's like they are trying to make us go through all of these hoops so we give up and say we don't want to do it," said Maui Police Department retiree Rick Camara, who has applied to carry a concealed firearm in order to protect himself and his family.

Welcome to the nanny state, Mr. Camara.


It's so hard not to start a pile of cop bashing, but they are citizens like the rest of us. Why should they get special treatment? Why is a cops family more worthy than mine?


Return the right of self defense to every one, not just for those special enough.


Cops have more bad guys with a grudge in one week than you and I in our lifetimes combined. I have a close friend who's a cop here in Phoenix, he's had to MOVE, literally sell his home and relocate his wife and 2 young boys because of people harassing him. If anyone gets a gun IMO, it's ordinary citizens who have to deal with that BS, i.e. cops. Agree on the rest though, let everyone have the right.




There's the flaw in your arguement.....who are they to decide if I get a gun or not?
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 5:14:40 AM EST
Originally Posted By Code4AR:
Hey cop bashers, in case you are not noticing the problem here, it is harder to get the LEOSA carry than a standard ccw permit in that state, if I'm reading the article correctly. Now we (the LEO's) aren't as equal as you lowly citizens, we're less... Bash that...


LEOSA allows carry in all states....nobody else's does.



Thoroughly bashed.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 5:16:40 AM EST
Originally Posted By HUMONGO:
Originally Posted By HogJaws:
Originally Posted By HUMONGO:
Originally Posted By dirksterG30:
"It's like they are trying to make us go through all of these hoops so we give up and say we don't want to do it," said Maui Police Department retiree Rick Camara, who has applied to carry a concealed firearm in order to protect himself and his family.

Welcome to the nanny state, Mr. Camara.


It's so hard not to start a pile of cop bashing, but they are citizens like the rest of us. Why should they get special treatment? Why is a cops family more worthy than mine?


Return the right of self defense to every one, not just for those special enough.


Cops have more bad guys with a grudge in one week than you and I in our lifetimes combined. I have a close friend who's a cop here in Phoenix, he's had to MOVE, literally sell his home and relocate his wife and 2 young boys because of people harassing him. If anyone gets a gun IMO, it's ordinary citizens who have to deal with that BS, i.e. cops. Agree on the rest though, let everyone have the right.




There's the flaw in your arguement.....who are they to decide if I get a gun or not?


That's neither here nor there. You asked why cops were special, I was just answering your question. Cops have more reason to carry guns than anyone these days. But I know we're on the same side in terms of gun ownership.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 5:17:22 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 5:22:23 AM EST
"Stop right where you are! You know the score, pal. You're not cop, you're little people!"
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 5:23:31 AM EST
Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Originally Posted By dbrowne1:
Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Originally Posted By SWIRE:
Anyone else think it is hilarious when cops complain about having to follow the law? You know the laws they will happily smack you down for not following...but make them follow the same laws and they can't stand it. I have no sympathy for the retired LEOs. I've been smacked around enough by cops "just following procedure", so they just need to suck it up and deal with it. Better yet, work to change the CCW laws for everyone.


The last time nationwide reciprocity was brought up and lost by two votes about half of this site was against it.

Not cops fault it didn't pass, rests at the feet of gun owners.


Actually, I seem to recall some LE organizations lobbying or advocating against it as well.



IACP hates everybody including their own cops. iirc the were agaist HB 214


I wouldn't call them an LE organization. They are a political organization that lend support to their political masters and not the street cop.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 5:28:44 AM EST
They can always be bail bondsman and work for Dog. Might get a nice peper spray gun with a Tapco stock and laser.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 5:30:26 AM EST
Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
It was a straight up if KY and AL allow CCW permits for their citizens then if I'm in KY my AL permit would be good. Nothing else

ie, you could carry in CA/NY

And about half the members here were against it.



I remember some of the debate. The question is why were they against it? Personally I don't want to open up the pandoras box of letting the federal government start regulating it.

Even with drivers licenses the federal government has been changing the licensing standards every couple years. They want states to verify every piece of information, have online systems so other states can verify the license...and so on. All that will create more work for the states who will in turn increase the fees they charge. If there is that much turmoil and regulation changes over driver licenses then you know there would be even more over concealed carry.

Link Posted: 3/15/2011 5:30:53 AM EST
Originally Posted By HogJaws:
Originally Posted By HUMONGO:
Originally Posted By HogJaws:
Originally Posted By HUMONGO:
Originally Posted By dirksterG30:
"It's like they are trying to make us go through all of these hoops so we give up and say we don't want to do it," said Maui Police Department retiree Rick Camara, who has applied to carry a concealed firearm in order to protect himself and his family.

Welcome to the nanny state, Mr. Camara.


It's so hard not to start a pile of cop bashing, but they are citizens like the rest of us. Why should they get special treatment? Why is a cops family more worthy than mine?


Return the right of self defense to every one, not just for those special enough.


Cops have more bad guys with a grudge in one week than you and I in our lifetimes combined. I have a close friend who's a cop here in Phoenix, he's had to MOVE, literally sell his home and relocate his wife and 2 young boys because of people harassing him. If anyone gets a gun IMO, it's ordinary citizens who have to deal with that BS, i.e. cops. Agree on the rest though, let everyone have the right.




There's the flaw in your arguement.....who are they to decide if I get a gun or not?


That's neither here nor there. You asked why cops were special, I was just answering your question. Cops have more reason to carry guns than anyone these days. But I know we're on the same side in terms of gun ownership.


Doesn't seem like it.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 5:34:38 AM EST
Originally Posted By Code4AR:
Hey cop bashers, in case you are not noticing the problem here, it is harder to get the LEOSA carry than a standard ccw permit in that state, if I'm reading the article correctly. Now we (the LEO's) aren't as equal as you lowly citizens, we're less... Bash that...


Um, they don't force you to get the LEOSA carry permit, you can still get the regular permit. So you(LEOs) are exactly as equal as citizens but then of course you get the special treatment of LEOSA which allows you to carry in any state, something us lowly citizens can't do. Carrying nationwide requires a little more paperwork, imagine that. Guess what if I want to get a passport I have to fill out a bunch more paperwork than I do if I just want a drivers license, oh the horrors.

So what exactly are you whining about?


Link Posted: 3/15/2011 5:38:45 AM EST
Originally Posted By Code4AR:
Hey cop bashers, in case you are not noticing the problem here, it is harder to get the LEOSA carry than a standard ccw permit in that state, if I'm reading the article correctly. Now we (the LEO's) aren't as equal as you lowly citizens, we're less... Bash that...

HI residents don't even get the chance to carry. It's may issue but to all non cops it's basically NO issue. It may be harder for those crybabies to get LEOSA but at least they even get something.

Consider yourself thoroughly bashed.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 5:39:29 AM EST
Originally Posted By Troubl3shooter:

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:

Retired Maui police officers spent their careers arresting murderers, robbers and other miscreants. Now, they're questioning why the state has made it difficult for them to carry a concealed firearm under a federal law that allows them to do so.

http://www.mauinews.com/page/content.detail/id/547195/GUN-SHY.html?nav=10

<––––––-for nationwide Constitutional carry.

Welcome back into the barn.


well said.. well said..
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 5:39:31 AM EST
Permits are dumb - most peole and most states have not figured that out yet. Only after your right becomes controlled by permit and denied to you figure out its too late. If the former cops really care, they should be for doing away with permits alltogether.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 5:43:37 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 5:45:21 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/15/2011 5:52:09 AM EST by Bama-Shooter]
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 5:49:40 AM EST
Viewed from another perspective...

Why would you take a job that puts you into a position of enhanced danger, knowing you have no greater right to self-defense, when you walk away from it?

Do you think that it should be a perk?
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 5:54:21 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 6:02:51 AM EST
Welcome to what the rest of us have to put up with.

Link Posted: 3/15/2011 6:07:45 AM EST
Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:

Not sure if it was true or not but I heard many times of AL officers being arrested in GA for CCW without a permit. But if you had a civilian CCW permit GTGO.


And your point is...? Goose<>gander!
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 6:09:53 AM EST
Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Originally Posted By Troubl3shooter:
Viewed from another perspective...

Why would you take a job that puts you into a position of enhanced danger, knowing you have no greater right to self-defense, when you walk away from it?

Do you think that it should be a perk?


When I started in LE there was no LEOSA. Not sure if it was true or not but I heard many times of AL officers being arrested in GA for CCW without a permit. But if you had a civilian CCW permit GTGO.

Also I never thought about the retaliation thing till after I got into it and was confronted a couple of times off duty.


Yep, ran into a guy I wrote a warrant on at the mall...after he got out. Not a good feeling to realize that your kids are in the stroler and there is a guy you locked up standing 6 feet away.

LEOs should have nationwide carry, as should everyone...but if anyone is likely to need it after they retire, it would be an LEO that spent 20 years locking up criminals that are now out walking around with him and his family.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 6:11:58 AM EST
Originally Posted By fla556guy:
Welcome to what the rest of us have to put up with.



Do you have to put up with people you locked up driving by your house and honking at night...running into suspects you know were guilty but couldn't get PC on while at dinner with your kids? LEOs deal with criminals on a daily basis. Unless you are in corrections or an LEO, you likely don't. So, no...that is not something the rest of the population has to put up with.

Link Posted: 3/15/2011 6:14:54 AM EST

Originally Posted By LockingBlock:
Originally Posted By fla556guy:

Welcome to what the rest of us have to put up with.

Do you have to put up with people you locked up driving by your house and honking at night...running into suspects you know were guilty but couldn't get PC on while at dinner with your kids? LEOs deal with criminals on a daily basis. Unless you are in corrections or an LEO, you likely don't. So, no...that is not something the rest of the population has to put up with.

Neither do you.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 6:15:36 AM EST
Originally Posted By LuvBUSHmaster:
Maui residents to the retired police: "Welcome to the SUCK".



+1

I love Maui. But if I lived there (or could afford to), I'd be a law-breaker... because there's NO way I'd follow their commie, rainbows-and-fairies laws regarding firearms.

Link Posted: 3/15/2011 6:22:32 AM EST
Originally Posted By LockingBlock:

LEOs should have nationwide carry, as should everyone...but if anyone is likely to need it after they retire, it would be an LEO that spent 20 years locking up criminals that are now out walking around with him and his family.



So your arguement is that EVERYONE should have it, but that you need it MORE than joe blow?

No.

Joe Blow's wife might be victim to an ex-boyfriend stalker who wants to kill her and her husband. Joe Blow might have looked the wrong way at a illegal alien drug runner he bumped into on the street who takes a disliking to him. Etc, etc, etc.

We ALL need/deserve to be able to protect ourselves equally.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 6:23:52 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/15/2011 6:26:32 AM EST by fla556guy]
Originally Posted By LockingBlock:
Originally Posted By fla556guy:
Welcome to what the rest of us have to put up with.



Do you have to put up with people you locked up driving by your house and honking at night...running into suspects you know were guilty but couldn't get PC on while at dinner with your kids? LEOs deal with criminals on a daily basis. Unless you are in corrections or an LEO, you likely don't. So, no...that is not something the rest of the population has to put up with.



You are not special. You choose that career, and IMHO, should not be able to use the "fear" card any more than I should be able to. You don't have your own spot in the 2A, and are now just realizing how fucked up the guns laws are and your anger should not be directed at me (who thinks ccw should be legal without permit as long as you meet the legal requirements).

Just remember, you are showing your blue line and might want to back off of that because it won't fly around here.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 6:24:49 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/15/2011 6:25:08 AM EST by America-first]
Originally Posted By LockingBlock:
Originally Posted By fla556guy:
Welcome to what the rest of us have to put up with.



Do you have to put up with people you locked up driving by your house and honking at night...running into suspects you know were guilty but couldn't get PC on while at dinner with your kids? LEOs deal with criminals on a daily basis. Unless you are in corrections or an LEO, you likely don't. So, no...that is not something the rest of the population has to put up with.



That's quite imaginative, but sorry; no cigar.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 6:25:05 AM EST

Originally Posted By Troubl3shooter:

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:

Retired Maui police officers spent their careers arresting murderers, robbers and other miscreants. Now, they're questioning why the state has made it difficult for them to carry a concealed firearm under a federal law that allows them to do so.

http://www.mauinews.com/page/content.detail/id/547195/GUN-SHY.html?nav=10

<––––––-for nationwide Constitutional carry.

Welcome back into the barn.

first response and all that.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 6:25:09 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/15/2011 6:28:32 AM EST by fla556guy]
Originally Posted By LockingBlock:
Originally Posted By fla556guy:
Welcome to what the rest of us have to put up with.



Do you have to put up with people you locked up driving by your house and honking at night...running into suspects you know were guilty but couldn't get PC on while at dinner with your kids? LEOs deal with criminals on a daily basis. Unless you are in corrections or an LEO, you likely don't. So, no...that is not something the rest of the population has to put up with.



I am also quite sure that I bump into violent felons in my daily ventures outside of my house, however I don't have the nice advance warning that you have (by knowing who they are).

And just a little FYI, buddy, I'm walking around my house with a G17 on my hip...........scary to you I bet.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 6:39:08 AM EST

Originally Posted By Code4AR:
Hey cop bashers, in case you are not noticing the problem here, it is harder to get the LEOSA carry than a standard ccw permit in that state, if I'm reading the article correctly. Now we (the LEO's) aren't as equal as you lowly citizens, we're less... Bash that...

* Not a cop basher*

It is not exactly harder to get the LEOSA carry than a standard ccw permit in the state as once all provisions are met the LEOSA is a shall issue while CCW is a May issue in Hawaii based on showing cause.

What the officer was comparing the process to in the article was the procedure for non-leos to have firearms in their homes.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 6:43:50 AM EST
Sympathy. I haz none.
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