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Posted: 12/29/2005 10:17:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/29/2005 10:18:31 AM EDT by Lancelot]
No more AUGs?

www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/27/AR2005122700698.html



State Dept. Sanctions 9 Foreign Companies

By BARRY SCHWEID
The Associated Press
Wednesday, December 28, 2005; 1:55 AM

WASHINGTON -- The Bush administration is punishing nine foreign companies, six of them in China, for selling missile goods and chemical arms material to Iran.

In making the announcement Tuesday, State Department spokesman Adam Ereli said the sanctions were based on "credible evidence," which he did not disclose.

Two of the companies are Indian and the other is Austrian.

As a result, Ereli said, the United States will not provide export licenses to the companies for doing business here and will ban U.S. government purchases from the companies.

The action was taken under the Iran Nonproliferation Act, which Congress passed in 2000 to deter international support for Iran's nuclear, chemical and biological weapons programs and for missile-delivery systems.

"It's an important and effective tool in constraining Iran's efforts to develop missile and weapons of mass destruction capabilities," Ereli said.

"It does have an impact, particularly in alerting governments to activity taking place in their countries," he said.

Preventing proliferation of dangerous technology is difficult "and there are always going to be those who put narrow commercial self-interest above greater social good or public welfare," the spokesman said.

China, in the past, has denied its government or any of its companies have supplied missile or weapons-related material to Iran.

In an unclassified report to Congress last year, the Central Intelligence Agency said Iran was pursuing nuclear and chemical-biological weapons programs and was trying to procure material from commercial entities in Russia, China, North Korea and Europe.

The Washington Times reported the U.S. action in Tuesday's editions.

The Chinese companies named by Ereli are China Aerotechnology Import Export Corp., the missile exporter China North Industries Corp., Zibo Chemet Equipment Co., the Hongdu Aviation Industry Group, Ounion International Economic and Technical Cooperative Ltd., and the Limmt Metallurgy and Minerals Co.

The two sanctioned Indian companies are Sabero Organics Chemical and Sandhya Organics Chemical.

The Austrian firm is Steyr-Mannlicher, which makes assault weapons.

© 2005 The Associated Press

Link Posted: 12/29/2005 10:21:45 AM EDT
Didn't steyr say they wouldn't sell to Iran if they could sell here??
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 10:23:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sixgunsblazing:
Didn't steyr say they wouldn't sell to Iran if they could sell here??



Yep, and GWB told them to fuck off. How about a firemission of emails to GWB about letting them do business here thus not having anything left to sell to Iran?
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 10:25:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/29/2005 10:26:53 AM EDT by _DR]

Originally Posted By Lancelot:


The Austrian firm is Steyr-Mannlicher, which makes assault weapons.

© 2005 The Associated Press





Typical press bias.

Steyr-Mannlicher sell more huinting rifles than anything else in the US. Of course, they couldn't state that, because it's not shocking!
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 10:59:24 AM EDT
this is why I cant stand politicians, can you believe the nerve of this countries politicians,

I can see the conversation now

hey company from europe, dont sell to Iran,
company from europe, ok can we sell in the us
no, go pound sand
aghhh right, funk off,


you know i am starting to undersatnd how we have such a negitive immage in certain areas, a simple solution offfered and we said no we know it hurts you buisness but aghh we dont care


so good for styer, sell to iran, syria, yemen, suadi arabia, and who ever else is willing to buy your weapon systems, because your not going to get any buisness here
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 11:05:47 AM EDT
I'm confused. Weren't they already unable to sell their product here? Are they now on double secret probation?
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 11:08:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Mattl:

Originally Posted By sixgunsblazing:
Didn't steyr say they wouldn't sell to Iran if they could sell here??



Yep, and GWB told them to fuck off. How about a firemission of emails to GWB about letting them do business here thus not having anything left to sell to Iran?



Won't do a damn bit of good.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 11:16:30 AM EDT
It was GWB? I thought it was Billy Boy or the original GB?
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 11:40:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:
I'm confused. Weren't they already unable to sell their product here? Are they now on double secret probation?



No see before it was just the rabble that couldn't buy them. If say some department of the FBI wanted an AUG they could buy them for LE use.

Now...... We really turned the screws and told them we won't buy their stuff that we weren't buying in any quantity before.

OOOOOHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!! NOW WE TOLD YA BITCH!!!
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 11:46:21 AM EDT
So, what's going to happen to all the people that put deposits on the AUG A3?
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 12:02:40 PM EDT
Well one things for sure, no government agencies will get any AUGs.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 12:11:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Grunteled:

Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:
I'm confused. Weren't they already unable to sell their product here? Are they now on double secret probation?



No see before it was just the rabble that couldn't buy them. If say some department of the FBI wanted an AUG they could buy them for LE use.

Now...... We really turned the screws and told them we won't buy their stuff that we weren't buying in any quantity before.

OOOOOHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!! NOW WE TOLD YA BITCH!!!



Now the .gov can't buy something that only they were professional enough for in the past. That really makes me a sad panda.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 12:14:55 PM EDT
Interesting as I thought it was US Customs that used the AUG as their main rifle. This would mean they are going to have to switch to something else if they buy anymore rifles.

Link Posted: 12/29/2005 12:22:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/29/2005 12:27:37 PM EDT by SteyrAUG]

Originally Posted By Lancelot:
No more AUGs?





Hell AUGS have been a no no since 89, which is why Steyr is selling to places like Iran.

I think this means no more Steyr ANYTHING, no more Steyr Ms, SBS rifles, etc.

ETA: When I read the title of this post I thought "I" was in trouble.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 12:23:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:
I'm confused. Weren't they already unable to sell their product here? Are they now on double secret probation?



No. Many of their things (AUGs, USRs, etc) are unimportable.

As I read this I think it means no more Steyr ANYTHING. No rifles, handguns, etc.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 12:24:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NonConformist:
It was GWB? I thought it was Billy Boy or the original GB?



The FIRST G. Bush with the 89 Import Ban. Bush Jr. seems to be carrying on Dad's fine work.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 12:29:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:
I'm confused. Weren't they already unable to sell their product here? Are they now on double secret probation?



No. Many of their things (AUGs, USRs, etc) are unimportable.

As I read this I think it means no more Steyr ANYTHING. No rifles, handguns, etc.



So the hopes of a civie AUG built here in the US of A are scuttled?
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 12:32:25 PM EDT
Hasn't Steyr been in or close to bankruptcy for a long period of time?
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 12:33:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PreMed_Gunner:

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:
I'm confused. Weren't they already unable to sell their product here? Are they now on double secret probation?



No. Many of their things (AUGs, USRs, etc) are unimportable.

As I read this I think it means no more Steyr ANYTHING. No rifles, handguns, etc.



So the hopes of a civie AUG built here in the US of A are scuttled?




It was a snowflake chance in hell anyway. This just seals the deal. Yes... no AUG.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 12:33:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By NonConformist:
It was GWB? I thought it was Billy Boy or the original GB?



The FIRST G. Bush with the 89 Import Ban. Bush Jr. seems to be carrying on Dad's fine work.


BS Bush Sr. never limited our rights. It was clinton.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 12:34:33 PM EDT
Well, wait, let's try to see the implications of this. They can't import anything anymore.

However, it says nothing about factories in the US and what they produce.

So if Steyr builds a factory in the US, it sure as hell seems to me as though they can produce a civilian Steyr AUG, so long as it's built in the US and not imported.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 12:35:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By olyarms:

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By NonConformist:
It was GWB? I thought it was Billy Boy or the original GB?



The FIRST G. Bush with the 89 Import Ban. Bush Jr. seems to be carrying on Dad's fine work.


BS Bush Sr. never limited our rights. It was clinton.



i hope your being sarcastic but the 89 import ban was Bush Sr.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 12:43:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PreMed_Gunner:

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:
I'm confused. Weren't they already unable to sell their product here? Are they now on double secret probation?



No. Many of their things (AUGs, USRs, etc) are unimportable.

As I read this I think it means no more Steyr ANYTHING. No rifles, handguns, etc.



So the hopes of a civie AUG built here in the US of A are scuttled?



Possibly. I'm sure Steyr will now not be terribly interested in the US market.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 12:44:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By olyarms:

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By NonConformist:
It was GWB? I thought it was Billy Boy or the original GB?



The FIRST G. Bush with the 89 Import Ban. Bush Jr. seems to be carrying on Dad's fine work.


BS Bush Sr. never limited our rights. It was clinton.



Clinton was President in 1989? Is that the answer you want to go with?
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 12:44:46 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 12:46:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MagKnightX:
Well, wait, let's try to see the implications of this. They can't import anything anymore.

However, it says nothing about factories in the US and what they produce.

So if Steyr builds a factory in the US, it sure as hell seems to me as though they can produce a civilian Steyr AUG, so long as it's built in the US and not imported.



Technically true.

Two questions however...

1. Will they be PERMITTED to build a factory and build domestic guns?

2. Will they still be interested in trying to get guns to the US market?

Link Posted: 12/29/2005 1:01:10 PM EDT


As a result, Ereli said, the United States will not provide export licenses to the companies for doing business here and will ban U.S. government purchases from the companies.


Guys, please read this sentence.... doesn't say anything about civvy sales.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 1:01:38 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 1:15:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheOtherDave:

As a result, Ereli said, the United States will not provide export licenses to the companies for doing business here and will ban U.S. government purchases from the companies.


Guys, please read this sentence.... doesn't say anything about civvy sales.



Sure it does.

"will not provide export licenses to the companies"

If they can't get export licenses, they can't be imported.

It is basically the same thing that was done with Norinco.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 1:19:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By MagKnightX:
Well, wait, let's try to see the implications of this. They can't import anything anymore.

However, it says nothing about factories in the US and what they produce.

So if Steyr builds a factory in the US, it sure as hell seems to me as though they can produce a civilian Steyr AUG, so long as it's built in the US and not imported.



Technically true.

Two questions however...

1. Will they be PERMITTED to build a factory and build domestic guns?

2. Will they still be interested in trying to get guns to the US market?





they already do and it's built. I don't know what if anything is being produced there but the range was built and it was in operation for atleast a while.

www.bizjournals.com/birmingham/stories/1999/04/12/story2.html



I wasn't aware that they ever got it up and running.

I knew they had plans to build but didn't know what stage they were in. As I haven't seen a domestic Steyr firearm of any kind I assumed it was still in the works.

I wonder if the .gov will take steps to eliminate their domestic capacity to manufacture.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 1:24:03 PM EDT
So will spare parts and magazines dry up? Or are they made in the US?
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 1:25:37 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 1:26:45 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 1:35:14 PM EDT
So when did the American "free" people get to vote on this?

I guess since we elected idiots, we deserve what we get.......just politicians.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 1:37:14 PM EDT
Well...............I guess I can spend that extra money on an FN2000 now
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 1:38:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Lancelot:
Well one things for sure, no government agencies will get any AUGs.



Or service for any weapons in current inventory.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 1:51:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mattl:

Originally Posted By sixgunsblazing:
Didn't steyr say they wouldn't sell to Iran if they could sell here??



Yep, and GWB told them to fuck off. How about a firemission of emails to GWB about letting them do business here thus not having anything left to sell to Iran?



I vote for sending him a copy of some required reading for him..



I just hope they don't screw anything up for FN.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 2:58:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/29/2005 2:59:40 PM EDT by _DR]

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By NonConformist:
It was GWB? I thought it was Billy Boy or the original GB?



The FIRST G. Bush with the 89 Import Ban. Bush Jr. seems to be carrying on Dad's fine work.



Yep. I was just playing the stupid shell game mandated by THAT piece of shit law today.

Lets see, I want an L1A1 bayo lug flashhider...so have to ditch the original gas piston and add a US made one, and I want Aussie coachwood HGs, so wait I have buy a US made buttstock for $85 when the surplus one is $5 so my US part count will still be 7/17


Complete and utter nonsense - who came up with these stupid numbers anyway...I can just see them making the bogus rules

BATF Administrator #1 "lets makes it 5 US parts required"
BATF Administrator #2 "No, make it 7"
BATF Administrator #1 "why?"
BATF Administrator #2 "I haven't had my coffee and donuts yet"
BATF Administrator #1 "OK, Seven US parts it is".



nonsense, just an exercise in madness.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 3:09:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

1. Will they be PERMITTED to build a factory and build domestic guns?



I am aware of no law requiring permission to build a factory in the United States. GWB's authority over the matter arises because of his control over imports. Congress would have to pass a new law banning the Steyr AUG if it was made domestically.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 3:11:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By happycynic:

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

1. Will they be PERMITTED to build a factory and build domestic guns?



I am aware of no law requiring permission to build a factory in the United States. GWB's authority over the matter arises because of his control over imports. Congress would have to pass a new law banning the Steyr AUG if it was made domestically.



Nothing is impossible with the US Government.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 3:24:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By happycynic:

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

1. Will they be PERMITTED to build a factory and build domestic guns?



I am aware of no law requiring permission to build a factory in the United States. GWB's authority over the matter arises because of his control over imports. Congress would have to pass a new law banning the Steyr AUG if it was made domestically.



I'm not an expert but I'd imagine a foreign firearms manufacturer would need some kind of government approval to make guns. Seems to me the ATF could simply pull their license as a punishment or as an "interpretation" of the government sanctions.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 3:42:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/29/2005 4:01:39 PM EDT by happycynic]

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By happycynic:

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

1. Will they be PERMITTED to build a factory and build domestic guns?



I am aware of no law requiring permission to build a factory in the United States. GWB's authority over the matter arises because of his control over imports. Congress would have to pass a new law banning the Steyr AUG if it was made domestically.



I'm not an expert but I'd imagine a foreign firearms manufacturer would need some kind of government approval to make guns. Seems to me the ATF could simply pull their license as a punishment or as an "interpretation" of the government sanctions.



I don't think there is. Anyway, the way they would do it would be to start a U.S. subsidiary (if they don't already have one), likely registered in Delaware, and there is no law against a Delaware company making guns.

Edited to add:


In 1976, Heckler & Koch Inc., a U.S. company with headquarters in Arlington, then Chantilly and finally Sterling, Virginia was established to serve the needs of the U.S. military, law enforcement and civilian markets.


www.hk-usa.com/index.jsp?loc=21&REFID=A0000&SITEID=A
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 3:50:28 PM EDT
How does Steyr selling Iran small arms affect the Iranian nuclear programme anyway?

NTM
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 4:50:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/29/2005 7:38:25 PM EDT by _DR]

Originally Posted By Manic_Moran:
How does Steyr selling Iran small arms affect the Iranian nuclear programme anyway?

NTM



Yep. The US Sells M1 tanks (Early models) and Bradleys to Egypt. How many think that is a very stable place?
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 5:42:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cyrax777:

Originally Posted By olyarms:

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By NonConformist:
It was GWB? I thought it was Billy Boy or the original GB?



The FIRST G. Bush with the 89 Import Ban. Bush Jr. seems to be carrying on Dad's fine work.


BS Bush Sr. never limited our rights. It was clinton.



i hope your being sarcastic but the 89 import ban was Bush Sr.



Yep, Bush Sr. is anti-gun.
www.davekopel.com/2A/Mags/George-Bush-and-the-NRA.htm
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 7:00:40 PM EDT
Steyr thoroughly in the pocket of the SS during WWII, to a larger extent than any large non-German firm I am aware of.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 7:16:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GunLvrPHD:
Steyr thoroughly in the pocket of the SS during WWII, to a larger extent than any large non-German firm I am aware of.



You mean Steyr of Austria, the first country to be annexed into the Reich.

Skoda gun works made LOTS of Mausers for the Nazis, were they also pro Nazi?

Hugo Boss made the uniforms for the SS.

Porsche made tanks for Hitler.

Link Posted: 12/29/2005 7:24:45 PM EDT
I'm not sure this really changes anything on US produced AUGs, it only bars the government from doing bussiness with Steyr.

If I'm not mistaken the sanctions were over the Steyr HS50s sold to the Iranian military.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 7:38:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By GunLvrPHD:
Steyr thoroughly in the pocket of the SS during WWII, to a larger extent than any large non-German firm I am aware of.



You mean Steyr of Austria, the first country to be annexed into the Reich.

Skoda gun works made LOTS of Mausers for the Nazis, were they also pro Nazi?

Hugo Boss made the uniforms for the SS.

Porsche made tanks for Hitler.



The Germans did have some incredible tanks, can't knock them for that.

-Ben
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 1:26:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Armed_Scientist:
If I'm not mistaken the sanctions were over the Steyr HS50s sold to the Iranian military.


I still don't get how a 50cal is a weapon of mass destruction.
Is W buying into the Kommiefornia 50 ban?
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 1:33:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By _DR:
Yep. I was just playing the stupid shell game mandated by THAT piece of shit law today.

Lets see, I want an L1A1 bayo lug flashhider...so have to ditch the original gas piston and add a US made one, and I want Aussie coachwood HGs, so wait I have buy a US made buttstock for $85 when the surplus one is $5 so my US part count will still be 7/17

Complete and utter nonsense - who came up with these stupid numbers anyway...I can just see them making the bogus rules

BATF Administrator #1 "lets makes it 5 US parts required"
BATF Administrator #2 "No, make it 7"
BATF Administrator #1 "why?"
BATF Administrator #2 "I haven't had my coffee and donuts yet"
BATF Administrator #1 "OK, Seven US parts it is".

nonsense, just an exercise in madness.


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