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11/22/2017 10:05:29 PM
Posted: 8/26/2004 1:16:56 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/26/2004 1:18:02 AM EST by MMcCall]
Long story short: September 13. 2001: I was all set to swear into the Marines: Squeaky clean background, lost a bunch of weight, kicked the hell out of the ASVAB, was ready for anything.. anything except standing there in MEPS and finding out I was Type II diabetic.

My view on citizenship is the same as Heinlein's: serve, and earn it. The difference is, in Johnny Rico's world, anyone could serve, as long as they desired to. Sick, deformed, whatever.. they'd find a place for you to earn your rights. After wrestling with this for three years, I'm coming to you guys for ideas. How to serve if you can't serve?

It seems like they could free up a lot of able-bodied men and women to fight on the front lines, if they made REMF or stateside slots available to people like me. I have to take a pill twice a day, BFD.. there's a shitload I could still do. I'm a network administrator by trade, my mind is technical, I could carry my own weight. Hell, I'd even sign a waiver releasing the government from any healthcare obligations due to pre-existing condition.

The anger always hits me in the middle of the night, when I'm reflecting and feeling worthless. I decided I'd share.
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 1:20:28 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/26/2004 1:24:04 AM EST by Kharn]
I was never declared physically unfit, but it'd take a hell of a lot of work to get my eligible (30lbs overweight, cant even jog more than a 1/4 mile due to shin splints, no upper body strength, etc), I too like Heinlein's view of earning citizenship.

I just started a civilian job with Army R&D two months ago and I'm having a blast (chemical weapons protection/contamination avoidance), but I had to work my ass off for four years to get my bachelors in chem eng.

Kharn
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 1:24:51 AM EST
I'm curious myself too, I'm wheelchair bound and think about this all the time....
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 1:27:28 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/26/2004 1:39:28 AM EST by Samhain44]
There are plenty of ways to serve your country, such as a:

Policeman
Firefighter
EMS
Re­scue Worker
Teacher
Community Volunteer
Or in the private sector too! As long as you live responsibly and give back to your town, state or country, I'd say that that would about cover it.

Remember, what did the LT in starship troopers do when there was no war? He taught!

From what the movie depicted, he had a profound effect on the kids he worked with too.

I was in Navy ROTC at the NY Maritime academy when I damaged my left knee & right shoulder. After going through a lot of phys therapy, I'm looking to go into the NYPD academy in January.
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 1:29:53 AM EST
While I don't agree with you on earning citizenship though military service, I think it sucks that you can't serve with some capacity.
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 1:31:12 AM EST
Guys there's always FBI-CIA-NSA-
There is ALWAYS a way if you just look for it.

wolf
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 1:31:56 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 1:32:28 AM EST
How to serve if you can't serve?

Become a productive member of society.
Do not get in trouble with the law.
Pay your taxes.
Participate in government.
Volunteer with the Disabled American Veterans or if you are close to a military base the Navy Marine Corps Relief Society, Army Emergency Relief or Air Force Aid Society.
Volunteer with the local Red Cross.

Link Posted: 8/26/2004 1:45:07 AM EST
Govern yourself so the government doesn't have to. THAT is the greatest contribution you can make to society. Earning your rights stems from some sort of guilt complex and is a backward view of the relationship between citizen and government. Government does not bestow upon you the mantle of Citizen, the Citizen bestows upon government the power to keep the peace. This whole concept is way too socialist for me. Planerench out.
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 1:45:18 AM EST
Supporting our troops, volunteering in their causes, is just as important as BEING in the troops.

I couldn't go for health reasons, but I volunteered at a VA for a number of years. It helped to ease my longings for a life denied me. I did my part, you can do yours.
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 1:57:56 AM EST
If you have a local Fire Department that is staffed by volunteers, you may find being a "vollie" very rewarding. I work a regular full time job, but in my off time I carry a pager and respond to the fire station down the street when there is an emergency. Also we do routine activities around the station and in the community. I find the fire service a very rewarding activity. Believe me it wil become more than just a hobby to you. The Deputy Chief of my department is diabetic and he is a very important part of our team.

If you consider this option and have any general questions about the fire service just let me know.
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 2:09:39 AM EST
Pay your taxes and cast an informed vote.
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 2:09:49 AM EST
As a veteran, I commend your attitude. As said above, there are opportunities to contribute to our nation besides military service.

There are many emerging technologies resulting from the war on terror and other national security issues. I now work for a company that does aircraft maintenance training systems for the C-17, and we're picking up business on other weapon system training programs too. There are people here who could not physically qualify for the military, but they are doing their part. To put it into the "circle of life", If we put out a high quality, effective product, then the aircraft maintenance technicians will have the best training available, making them more effective at their jobs, resulting in safer, more reliable aircraft, so when the trigger pullers need to be transported they get where they need to be on time and in one piece.

This war effort involves more than the guys in uniform. Good luck.
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 4:32:50 AM EST

Originally Posted By KA3B:
How to serve if you can't serve?

Become a productive member of society.
Do not get in trouble with the law.
Pay your taxes.
Participate in government.
Volunteer with the Disabled American Veterans or if you are close to a military base the Navy Marine Corps Relief Society, Army Emergency Relief or Air Force Aid Society.
Volunteer with the local Red Cross.




BINGO!!!
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 4:41:17 AM EST
If you're eager to volunteer (as I am), think globally and act locally. A couple hours a month of my time goes to the American Red Cross and the local Hunger Task Force. It's better than writing a check! As they say, "If a tornado is an act of God, what's a hot meal and a warm place to sleep to someone that's just lost everything?"
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 4:43:51 AM EST

Originally Posted By Samhain44:
Remember, what did the LT in starship troopers do when there was no war? He taught!

From what the movie depicted, he had a profound effect on the kids he worked with too.



Read the book instead of that piece of propoganda that is the film. But your points are valid.

Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas...
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 4:44:52 AM EST
I was also physically disqualified from military service over 20 years ago. I figure the best thing I can do is take care of my family, work hard, donate to conservative and pro-gun causes, and be prepared. If more people had personal responsibility we'd have a lot less problems in this country.

GunLvr
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 5:27:06 AM EST
Lots of good feedback here, unfortunately none of it relating to ways of getting to blow shit up.
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 5:33:55 AM EST
USO
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 5:52:34 AM EST
What a statist mentality. The government was created for our benefit, not for us to serve it. Heinlein's view of citizenship is a bizarre concept, more tribalistic than anything else. "You must be a warrior or you are a lesser human being." Fascism. Not cool.

If you want to help your community and your fellow citizens, there is no better way than to start up a business and offer people competitively priced goods or services. They will appreciate that far more than some bullshit war going on thousands of miles from the continental US.
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 6:01:39 AM EST

Originally Posted By thelibertarian:
What a statist mentality. The government was created for our benefit, not for us to serve it. Heinlein's view of citizenship is a bizarre concept, more tribalistic than anything else. "You must be a warrior or you are a lesser human being." Fascism. Not cool.



Government of the People, by the People, and for the People. What a concept. I think its cool.


If you want to help your community and your fellow citizens, there is no better way than to start up a business and offer people competitively priced goods or services. They will appreciate that far more than some bullshit war going on thousands of miles from the continental US.


I guess it's a BS war until the next time the Islamofascist terrorists hit us inside our own borders.
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 6:35:21 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/26/2004 6:42:32 AM EST by tommytrauma]

Originally Posted By thelibertarian:
What a statist mentality. The government was created for our benefit, not for us to serve it. Heinlein's view of citizenship is a bizarre concept, more tribalistic than anything else. "You must be a warrior or you are a lesser human being." Fascism. Not cool.

If you want to help your community and your fellow citizens, there is no better way than to start up a business and offer people competitively priced goods or services. They will appreciate that far more than some bullshit war going on thousands of miles from the continental US.



Nope. While RAH put forth the idea that a franchise should be earned via service to society, military service was only one way of doing so. Not service TO the goverment, but actually taking part IN the government.

I take it you're not big on the idea of any formalization of the societal contract?

MMcCall, as others have said, there are many ways of working to support our society. If each of us ssimply selected an activity to take part in with the goal of making a difference, we'd be sitting pretty as a culture. One reason I'll never leave EMS entirely is my belief that I actually have an impact. Others find use in Big Brother programs, Red Cross work, volunteering to provide transportation for elderly patients, all sorts of stuff.

ETA I first read Starship Troopers when I was 13. It had a lot to do with my decision to enlist when I was 17, and played a significant role in the formulation of my beliefs about the rights and responsabilties of an individual in society.
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 6:40:24 AM EST
Try to get in as a civiilian contractor to the DoD - Army, Navy, Marines etc...there are lots of opportunities. Also, you could look at traditional Defense companies for employment - be part of the team that equips our boys/girls with shit hot technology and capabilities.

Further, you can volunteer with support organizations etc...

If you are looking to get some kills, well then you have to figure out something on your own
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 6:44:33 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 6:48:51 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/26/2004 6:55:58 AM EST by 2whiskeyP]
You would do a great deal for this country just by being nice. Treat people well and you will be very much appreciated. Most of the time I can't stand all the shitheads I come in contact with on a daily basis. The nice people really stand out IMO.

I know this isn't exactly what you had in mind as far as replacing military service but it would sure be nice if people treated others respectfully!
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 6:50:31 AM EST
To paraphrase the father of one of Heinlein's other character/hero's.... "Tell yourself that your a dang good grade of steel and it's no fault of yours that they were looking for magnesium."

Like the guys are saying.... there are other ways that lead to selfworth, don't let it get you down that
THIS particular avenue is closed.

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