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Posted: 10/13/2004 3:00:54 AM EST
St. Louis County Wins Conceal-Carry Court Battle


Created: 10/12/2004 10:41:15 PM
Updated: 10/12/2004 10:41:57 PM

A central Missouri court has sided with St. Louis County's decision not to issue conceal-carry permits.

Those who are against conceal-carry say th ruling is a big win, but gun supporters say it's a hollow one.

St. Louis County Executive Charlie Dooley, who's up for election, said, "This is a great victory for us.... St. Louis County overwhelmingly did not support conceal and carry."

Judge Brown stated in his ruling that the Missouri Conceal-Carry Law violates the Hancock amendment because it doesn't provide funding needed to issue the permits. Dooley said, "Using taxpayers money for conceal and carry permits is not the proper way to use taxpayers money in St. Louis county."

In addition to the issue of funding, St. Louis County Police Chief Jerry Lee says concealed weapons can make it more dangerous for citizens. Lee said, "We've had instances across metropolitan area where citizens have become involved with road rage and we feel with the added fact people could carry guns concealed that might make that situation worse."

But gunowners can still carry a loaded gun in their vehicles. This ruling doesn't affect that. And it also doesn't affect people who already have permits from other counties and other states.

Mark Campbell is owner of Mid America Arms in St. Louis county. Campbell said, "People are still going to get their conceal carry permits out of state. They're going that way, they're not going to wait around."

Michael Meyer got his permit from Florida. He is with Gateway Civil Liberties Alliance, a pro-gun grassroots group. Meyer said, "It's fairly easy to get, you could do it by being a resident of Missouri without even going down there. All you've got to do is mail it in."

It's not clear if the state will appeal this ruling.

NewsChannel 5 tried to contact Gene McNary, the republican candidate for St. Louis County Executive. He was not immediately available for comment.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 3:20:30 AM EST
Fight road rage. Shoot back.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 3:23:02 AM EST
Its my experience that gov't officials and PARTICULARLY the police are the leat informed about firearms law.

I just got done educating my CLEO about what the Form 4 is, and what it does..

Link Posted: 10/13/2004 3:46:49 AM EST
John Ross is in this fight: john-ross.net/

UC author is too cool, can't wait for the new book!
Just finished reading Enemies Foreign & Domestic.

Railgun....
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 4:10:48 AM EST
From a different perspective, in WI, the way our PPA has been written and passed (by both State houses only to be vetoed by our Gov), individual county boards may vote to opt out of the process - but as long as there's one county in the state issuing licenses - they'd be legal across the cheese state.

From what I could see at the time, the WI county sheriff's stood to make so much money from issuing licenses only a few of them would've asked their county to opt out, and then at that point getting the county board to agree with opting out wasn't always a sure thing, and in the end it's just a symbolic gesture anyway.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 4:16:18 AM EST
congrats MO

hang tight.

Link Posted: 10/13/2004 4:22:33 AM EST

Originally Posted By Dolomite:
From a different perspective, in WI, the way our PPA has been written and passed (by both State houses only to be vetoed by our Gov), individual county boards may vote to opt out of the process - but as long as there's one county in the state issuing licenses - they'd be legal across the cheese state.

From what I could see at the time, the WI county sheriff's stood to make so much money from issuing licenses only a few of them would've asked their county to opt out, and then at that point getting the county board to agree with opting out wasn't always a sure thing, and in the end it's just a symbolic gesture anyway.



Actually something like 65 of the 72 sheriffs wanted to opt out if the bill passed. In fact 65 out of the 72 county sheriff's were AGAINST the PPA. Ours wanted to opt out, but a very gun friendly, former Police Officer turned county board member basicly told him he wasn't getting what he wanted, and that the county board would NOT allow him to opt out of issuing permits should the bill pass. We also had the first county board to pass a resolution or whatever backing the PPA.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 4:24:12 AM EST

Originally Posted By hk940:
congrats MO

hang tight.



huh did u read? it says St Louis DOES NOT have to issue CC permits, ain't no victory there
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 4:31:26 AM EST

Originally Posted By photoman:

Actually something like 65 of the 72 sheriffs wanted to opt out if the bill passed.



Based on a anti-CCW Wisconsin Sheriffs and Deputy Sheriffs Association poll - saying they wanted to opt out and actually getting a vote to opt out of it (like they tried in your county and up in Eau Claire) was a remote possibility - probably would of stuck in Dane and Milwaukee Co. though - leaving Waukesha's Sheriff (who had no problem with it) to buy his guys all new Cadillacs (just my opinion of course, we'll probably never know until Jim Doyle is out of ofice).
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 4:36:27 AM EST
EVERY government employee is your ENEMY!

I don't care if it's the garbageman.....they will screw you if it benefits them!

There is an invisible line................ citizens ][ government ........whenever anyone passes into the "government zone" as an employee or a bureaucrat....the citizens become a lessor class in their minds.
I've seen this too many times. Kinda like the Gestapo and the SS.......everyone else becomes "Enemies of the State" to them!
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 4:38:41 AM EST

Originally Posted By Dolomite:

Originally Posted By photoman:

Actually something like 65 of the 72 sheriffs wanted to opt out if the bill passed.



Based on a anti-CCW Wisconsin Sheriffs and Deputy Sheriffs Association poll - saying they wanted to opt out and actually getting a vote to opt out of it (like they tried in your county and up in Eau Claire) was a remote possibility - probably would of stuck in Dane and Milwaukee Co. though - leaving Waukesha's Sheriff (who had no problem with it) to buy his guys all new Cadillacs (just my opinion of course, we'll probably never know until Jim Doyle is out of ofice).



Screw after Doyle is out. After the next election they need to push the PPA again.

At least the people in St.Louis they can get an out of state permit and still be ok, at least the artical makes it seem that way. Were still fucked, for a little bit anyway, but there are things in the works to help with that, an idea born right here on ARFCOM .
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