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Posted: 11/12/2012 3:23:13 PM EDT
So this chick I'm seeing is a fitness /wellness major, and has taken it upon herself to tell me everything I'm doing wrong.

She has never heard of Ripp, but she does do crossfit and does barbell training. Her two big weird points are that back squats are bad for your posture, and that dead lifts are more of a leg exercise than a back exercise. In trying to 'correct' my form she had my ass down below parallel at the beginning of my dead.

Same girl only does front squats and stares almost at the ceiling while doing them. I'm actually frightened based on what her coaches seem to be telling her.

Anyone got my back here?
Link Posted: 11/12/2012 4:27:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/12/2012 4:28:30 PM EDT by darktide]
Deadlift is a leg exercise.

There is a difference between the pull of oly lifts and a standard deadlift...

Squats are good for your posture...


Link Posted: 11/12/2012 4:29:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/12/2012 5:08:03 PM EDT by KILLERB6]
She's right about the dead (like squatting while holding the bar).

As for squatting, like anything else, done properly it shouldn't be a problem.
Link Posted: 11/12/2012 4:54:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By darktide:
Deadlift is a leg exercise.

There is a difference between the pull of oly lifts and a standard deadlift...

Squats are good for your posture...



Pretty much this. Deadlift starting position may also vary some based on body geometry- mine is very low but still not below parallel.

Sounds like she doesn't know what she's talking about, but did get one thing right (deadlift being a leg exercise).
Link Posted: 11/12/2012 5:13:55 PM EDT
Squats––––––––––––––––––->http://fitnesssafari.blogspot.com/2012/01/stfu-and-squat.html
Link Posted: 11/12/2012 5:28:21 PM EDT
Be leery of anything a fitness major or personal trainer tells you.....its all to often BS.

Squats and deads have made a tremendous improvement on my posture.

Like RoG said body geometry plays a huge roll on back angle for deads....my ass is much higher than parallel.

Deads use back and legs but legs SHOULD be the primary drivers.
Link Posted: 11/12/2012 6:18:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GUNGUY148:
Be leery of anything a fitness major or personal trainer tells you.....its all to often BS.

Squats and deads have made a tremendous improvement on my posture.

Like RoG said body geometry plays a huge roll on back angle for deads....my ass is much higher than parallel.

Deads use back and legs but legs SHOULD be the primary drivers.

Same for me on the posture. Not only an improved posture, I never have back pain anymore.
Link Posted: 11/12/2012 11:30:40 PM EDT
Well I know from how blown my legs are that they are a big part of dead lifting, but I get a lot more sore in the legs from squats than I do from deads. I dead lifted 280x6 for my big set today, a rep record for me, and shes telling me how I was doing it all with my back. No hon, I'm not, but part of dead lifting IS using your back. I can't remember if its in SS or 531 but one of them said it was a measure of back strength.

I'm studying to be a trainer and don't at all want to be the trainer that's a retard on basic shit like big barbell lifts. I really need to find a good coach and make sure I'm good on form. Maybe I'll road trip to Wichita Falls...
Link Posted: 11/13/2012 1:06:23 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/13/2012 5:27:41 AM EDT
She probably only knows of high barbell placement when back squatting. Most people that don't squat heavy place the bar right on top of the traps. This can cause spinal issues...if anyone was dumb enough to squat twice their weight with that hold. :P Inform her of the low barbell hold you're probably already using. Much less spine loading and cannot harm posture in any way. In fact, back squats and deads can only improve posture. Spinal erectors hold the spine in place, and two of the best ways to work those just so happens to be back squats and deads.
Link Posted: 11/13/2012 6:00:14 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Th0r:
She probably only knows of high barbell placement when back squatting. Most people that don't squat heavy place the bar right on top of the traps. This can cause spinal issues...if anyone was dumb enough to squat twice their weight with that hold. :P.
tell that to olympic lifters.

Link Posted: 11/13/2012 7:11:59 AM EDT
Yes, very true. My statement was more towards the recreational lifter/powerlifter, not those freaks with the bodymechanics and flexability of a newborn baby and a few coaches to ensure they have absolutely impecable form, lol.
Link Posted: 11/13/2012 8:19:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Th0r:
Yes, very true. My statement was more towards the recreational lifter/powerlifter, not those freaks with the bodymechanics and flexability of a newborn baby and a few coaches to ensure they have absolutely impecable form, lol.

I know a few people, myself included that high bar squat 2x+ BW. Not a thing wrong with it, especially for those of us who place high importance on the oly lifts (but are by no means "Olympic Lifters")
Link Posted: 11/13/2012 9:23:29 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/13/2012 9:34:15 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Hank:
Everytime someone says "back squats" I want to punch a kitten.


back squats
back squats
back squats
back squats
back squats
back squats
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back squats
back squats
back squats
back squats
back squats
back squats
back squats
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back squats
back squats
back squats
back squats
back squats
back squats
back squats
back squats
back squats
back squats
back squats
back squats
back squats
back squats
back squats
back squats
back squats

I'm more of a dog person.
Link Posted: 11/13/2012 9:36:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/13/2012 9:49:22 AM EDT by s_gorilla45]
Did I get in before that tard that thinks the spinal erectors are the prime mover for the deadlift?

In all seriousness, done incorrectly squats and deads can mess you up.

Start here for some good information on squats.

Keep your low back safe (good solid arch) on deads and don't worry about the depth. Hell, I can nearly pull the same amount on RDL as I can conventional but you should have some good hip and leg drive to initiate the pull.
Link Posted: 11/13/2012 10:01:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/13/2012 10:03:12 AM EDT by Th0r]
Originally Posted By RolandofGilead:
I know a few people, myself included that high bar squat 2x+ BW. Not a thing wrong with it, especially for those of us who place high importance on the oly lifts (but are by no means "Olympic Lifters")

Well sir, then I will retract my statement. While my experience with fellow lifters has been much different, I suppose I should know by now not to put much stock in "bro-science" and certainly know better than to repeat it.
Link Posted: 11/13/2012 10:18:10 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Hank:
Everytime someone says "back squats" I want to punch a kitten.


So there I was, taking a standing piss...
Link Posted: 11/13/2012 10:19:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By drew5337:
So this chick I'm seeing is a fitness /wellness major, and has taken it upon herself to tell me everything I'm doing wrong.

She has never heard of Ripp, but she does do crossfit and does barbell training. Her two big weird points are that back squats are bad for your posture, and that dead lifts are more of a leg exercise than a back exercise. In trying to 'correct' my form she had my ass down below parallel at the beginning of my dead.

Same girl only does front squats and stares almost at the ceiling while doing them. I'm actually frightened based on what her coaches seem to be telling her.

Anyone got my back here?
I wouldn't let her coach me if that is what she thinks.

Squats are find for your posture and your deadlift should not start with your hip bellow parallel.

As for whether or not the deadlift is a leg lift or a back lift is debatable. We too often, in a world dominated by body builders and men's health magazines, get fixated on what part of the body gets worked on a certain lift. The deadlift is every much of a leg lift as it is a back exercise. Obviously the moving parts involve the knee and hip joint, but the weight hangs in the arms which are held in place by the scapulae which are held in place by the upper back with the force transmitted down the vertebrae which are held in place by the spinal errectors.

It's a full body lift, the main movers just happen to take place around the joints found in the lower body while the rest of the muscles contract in isolation.

Link Posted: 11/13/2012 10:50:53 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/13/2012 10:51:25 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/14/2012 7:06:10 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Hank:
Everytime someone says "back squats" I want to punch a kitten.


because there are no squats other than back squats, amirite?
Link Posted: 11/14/2012 9:15:29 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/14/2012 9:39:26 PM EDT


A girl that primarily does crossfit and barbell training should not be teaching anyone how to squat. Nor should she be dictating pull form.

You have far more valuable resources available for that.
Link Posted: 11/15/2012 12:55:05 AM EDT
To put it politely, she doesn't know what she's talking about here.
Link Posted: 11/15/2012 7:11:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DuraToTheMax:


A girl that primarily does crossfit and barbell training should not be teaching anyone how to squat. Nor should she be dictating pull form.

You have far more valuable resources available for that.

You know most Crossfitters learn squat form from coaches like Rip right?
Link Posted: 11/15/2012 7:14:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Hank:
I think "back squats", being the classic Olympic or powerlifting squats, are the ones you don't have to classify with a descriptor. Pretty sure if I say, "I'm squatting tomorrow", only the CrossFitters and those that CrossFit has influenced would wonder at all what kind of squats I would be performing.

You have a point, but some of us that front squat regularly for oly lifting actually differentiate from front vs. back squat because we end up front squatting more...YMMV of course.
Link Posted: 11/15/2012 10:29:48 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/15/2012 11:25:46 AM EDT
I oly lift just because
Link Posted: 11/15/2012 1:35:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hank:
And you Oly lift because of CrossFit.

BOOM! POINT DRIVEN HOME!


Lol, sorta . Honestly if I gave up Crossfit I'd become a more serious oly lifter. I started oly lifting because of CF, but now I think I actually like oly better
Link Posted: 11/15/2012 2:16:42 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 1:13:41 AM EDT
Can someone elaborate on when a high bar position is desired on back squat? For me low bar just seems more comfortable and i can do a bit more weight thatway, and i believe my form is better that way as well
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 3:49:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By LinkedM4:
Can someone elaborate on when a high bar position is desired on back squat? For me low bar just seems more comfortable and i can do a bit more weight thatway, and i believe my form is better that way as well

The high bar is for those who are Olympic lifters who train for cleans. The high bar squat for them is an assistance lift. Most of them will front squat instead. Unless you are big into Olympic lifting, you should omit the high bar back squat as it really adds pressure to your back and to your knees.

I know some Oly lifters who won't even do high bar squats period when they can just as easily do front squats and not have to worry about getting your form all fucked up.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 6:15:38 PM EDT
Does she make you do all exercise naked? If so, keep her.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 11:02:41 PM EDT
Originally Posted By LinkedM4:
Can someone elaborate on when a high bar position is desired on back squat? For me low bar just seems more comfortable and i can do a bit more weight thatway, and i believe my form is better that way as well


The high bar position is used by Olympic lifters because it simulates the upright torso necessary to snatch and clean heavy weights. High bar squats are optimal for Olympic lifters. Rippetoe will argue otherwise, of course. But he's wrong.

If you're just squatting to get bigger and stronger, use whatever works best for you. I squat low bar and use the high bar as an "assistance" movement, FWIW.
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