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Link Posted: 5/1/2017 9:53:39 PM EDT
That is the best they could come with? Really? It took how many days and man hours? For that? Their entire two statements could have been condensed into a single sentence:

"We have always fought for the 2nd but there was miscommunication between our lobbyists, sorry."

If it was my business on the line, and people acted behind my back, I'm naming names and giving out dates. Hell, they are still acting like they aren't sure how this happen! Fuck that.
Link Posted: 5/1/2017 9:59:13 PM EDT
Tremendo Mierda
Link Posted: 5/1/2017 10:02:04 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/1/2017 10:04:48 PM EDT
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Wow. Do they swing from Springfield's nuts much?
Link Posted: 5/1/2017 10:14:29 PM EDT
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"Pushing back hard" my fat ass.  And that goes double for the insinuation that TTAG committed libel.
Link Posted: 5/1/2017 10:18:02 PM EDT
It's only a matter of time before someone posts a 'Hitler is pissed', 'Mexican Laughing Guy' parody on YouTube.

There's a lot of material to work with on this one.
Link Posted: 5/1/2017 10:18:32 PM EDT
Fuck'em both. If you are the clients of a lobbyist, and don't know what the hell he's doing or have giving him no instructions about what you want to happen .... Your companies can suffer the consequences of your own stupidity. I still think they both knew what was going on and didn't give a rat's ass if it screwed others over or kneecapped the Second Amendment. Screw them, I will never purchase another thing from either company. They are now on he same never buy list as those assholes at Troy.
Link Posted: 5/1/2017 10:18:33 PM EDT
What unbelievable bullshit.

I hope it was worth it - especially when your sales fall through the floor during what is already shaping up to be a soft market for firearms manufacturers. As much as I hate and despise the anti-gunners, at least they are honest about their goals. I don't expect integrity from them, because they've never pretended to have it. I did expect it from you, and what a disappointment.

You are the worst kind of quislings, paying lip service to the 2nd while selling out fellow gun owners behind the scenes. Whether the bill passes as-is or not, you have made your position clear. I have no interest in rewarding you for stabbing your fellow gun owners and dealers in the back. I'll say what everyone is thinking - your "press releases" are nothing but bullshit and an attempt to cover your asses after the fact. Do you really expect the entire firearms community to believe that you had no idea this was happening? For a month? Good luck with that!

You aren't sorry you did it, you're just sorry you got caught.

RRA has nothing that interests me, so avoiding their products will be easy. When it comes to SA, I did have a stainless Range Officer at the top of my list, which now looks like it will be a Dan Wesson. My first 1911 was a Springfield, and I have never hesitated to recommend your products, but that stops today.

I know that one more pistol isn't going to break you, but I will make damned sure every single one of my family and friends know how you sold us out. Hopefully if enough of us spread the word, it will hurt you in the only place that apparently matters - your bottom line.
Link Posted: 5/1/2017 10:19:11 PM EDT
Hey Bob, I'll put away my pitchfork right after you're done tossing SA/RRA's salad.
Link Posted: 5/1/2017 10:23:47 PM EDT
Apparently Illinois FFLs are getting letters about a june meeting regarding state regulatory requirements....

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_8_23/613115_SB-1657-headed-to-the-state-house.html
Link Posted: 5/1/2017 10:27:56 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Mustang-Man:
Statement from SA

http://blog.springfield-armory.com/springfield-armory-statement-regarding-gun-dealer-licensing-act-sb1657
View Quote
I like "“At the time of my initial statement to the media, I was ill-informed of the ramifications of this bill and its detrimental effects to the Second Amendment, which I have personally fought to protect my entire life. I can tell you now, we at Springfield Armory are unequivocally 100 percent against this bill and will continue to work with the NRA and others to ensure that it is defeated,” said Dennis Reese, Chief Executive Officer, Springfield Armory."   

I translate as "We got our exemption so while we still oppose it in theory we've thrown you guys overboard and we have a plan B.  Fuck all of you."
Link Posted: 5/1/2017 10:28:01 PM EDT
well...It certainly looks like RRA and SA have a real public relations nightmare on their hands. I real curious as to how they are going to put this five alarm blaze out.
Link Posted: 5/1/2017 10:37:09 PM EDT
Does "don't bite the hand that feeds you" apply here?
Link Posted: 5/1/2017 10:37:26 PM EDT
we were as shocked as everyone else to find ourselves exempted from provisions of SB1657
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Link Posted: 5/1/2017 10:40:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/1/2017 10:55:28 PM EDT by Evintos]
https://www.opensecrets.org/527s/527cmtedetail_donors.php?ein=464628447&cycle=2016

$50,000 Rock River Arms Colona IL 05/31/2016
$50,000 Springfield Armory Geneseo IL 05/31/2016
$50,000 Rock River Arms Colona IL 06/05/2015
$50,000 Springfield Armory Geneseo IL 05/25/2015

Since 2014, both companies donated $50k annually into the IFMA and the best they can do is a damage control statement? What a load of crap.

$150k from each company into the organization (to date) and they aren't aware of the organization's actions? Not buying it.
Link Posted: 5/1/2017 10:43:58 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By RattRooster:
well...It certainly looks like RRA and SA have a real public relations nightmare on their hands. I real curious as to how they are going to put this five alarm blaze out.
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Link Posted: 5/1/2017 10:49:57 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Phildo:
Their bullshit is on their Facebook now. Hit it.

Let your voice be heard.
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Hit that shit!
Link Posted: 5/1/2017 10:51:34 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Mal_means_bad:
"Pushing back hard" my fat ass.  And that goes double for the insinuation that TTAG committed libel.
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The rather humorous thing is that BA ran a story this morning alleging the same damned thing that TTAG did. Why didn't Owens call out BA along with that "other website"?
Link Posted: 5/1/2017 10:51:42 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By jhereg:
I like "“At the time of my initial statement to the media, I was ill-informed of the ramifications of this bill and its detrimental effects to the Second Amendment, which I have personally fought to protect my entire life. I can tell you now, we at Springfield Armory are unequivocally 100 percent against this bill and will continue to work with the NRA and others to ensure that it is defeated,” said Dennis Reese, Chief Executive Officer, Springfield Armory."   

I translate as "We got our exemption so while we still oppose it in theory we've thrown you guys overboard and we have a plan B.  Fuck all of you."
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Not much of a plan B if there are no retailers at the end of the chain.
Link Posted: 5/1/2017 10:56:58 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By 6SJ7GT:
Not much of a plan B if there are no retailers at the end of the chain.
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Originally Posted By 6SJ7GT:
Originally Posted By jhereg:
I like "“At the time of my initial statement to the media, I was ill-informed of the ramifications of this bill and its detrimental effects to the Second Amendment, which I have personally fought to protect my entire life. I can tell you now, we at Springfield Armory are unequivocally 100 percent against this bill and will continue to work with the NRA and others to ensure that it is defeated,” said Dennis Reese, Chief Executive Officer, Springfield Armory."   

I translate as "We got our exemption so while we still oppose it in theory we've thrown you guys overboard and we have a plan B.  Fuck all of you."
Not much of a plan B if there are no retailers at the end of the chain.
I think they're short sighted.   I also suspect someone running those companies isn't a gun guy and isn't familiar with what happened to S&W.   That looks to me like the work of some short sighted beancounters who run a firearms company but aren't gun people and don't know how they think.  Instead of fighting &/or moving they chose to collaborate. 
Link Posted: 5/1/2017 11:07:05 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By cruciantime:
I've got 2 complete RRA lowers. What uppers should I put on them? Sure as hell wont be RRA.
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Troy upper. H&S stock parts.

Call it, "Benedict"
Link Posted: 5/1/2017 11:10:19 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By America-first:
The statement came from:


Stefany Reese, PR & Communications Manager
Springfield Armory, Inc.
stefanyr@springfield-armory.com
309-944-8994


Springfield Armory is a privately held company owned by The Reese Family.
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Originally Posted By America-first:
Originally Posted By notillr:
Originally Posted By Mustang-Man:
Statement from SA

http://blog.springfield-armory.com/springfield-armory-statement-regarding-gun-dealer-licensing-act-sb1657
Didn't even come from the owner. Came from the PR Derpt...
The statement came from:


Stefany Reese, PR & Communications Manager
Springfield Armory, Inc.
stefanyr@springfield-armory.com
309-944-8994


Springfield Armory is a privately held company owned by The Reese Family.
Not for long.
Link Posted: 5/1/2017 11:15:45 PM EDT
Interesting... That's almost a full 180 from what the other website (thetruthaboutguns?) said to get all this started.

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Maybe I read and watch too much political fiction, but the timing of the whole thing strikes me as a setup. Having this come out at a time when the gun co's are setting up for NRAAM and away from their office is just too perfect. Obama did a similar thing (EO or legislation... I don't remember which) on the opening day of SHOT show a few years ago. That was striking fear in all (most?) gun companies though, this is only against 2.

Maybe we will someday find out what really happened, but I wonder if anyone will care at that point.

If anyone wants to ditch their RRA or SA goodies, I will pay full retail to help you out, if it is something I am interested in.*





* payment shall be 10% cash, 90% monopoly money, but at least you can brag that you got full price out of it, and also that you don't have any of their products anymore!
Link Posted: 5/1/2017 11:16:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/1/2017 11:21:10 PM EDT by Azygos]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By rabidus:
Troy upper. H&S stock parts.

Call it, "Benedict"
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Originally Posted By rabidus:
Originally Posted By cruciantime:
I've got 2 complete RRA lowers. What uppers should I put on them? Sure as hell wont be RRA.
Troy upper. H&S stock parts.

Call it, "Benedict"
Ouch.

Color fill the rollmarks yellow.

Maybe a large hole Colt upper with Troy BUIS, an HK 416 magazine, and a Springfield Saint grip. If you can't get H&S part to fit, then toss on a butt stock from one of the aforementioned groups.
Link Posted: 5/1/2017 11:17:25 PM EDT
Well... I *did* like my Springfield 1911 RO. I think I'll trade it in for a Kimber.
Link Posted: 5/1/2017 11:18:57 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By GunsNotPuns:
It's much worse than that. In the comment thread for the post about SA's custom shop Phil W. stated the following:

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Originally Posted By GunsNotPuns:
Originally Posted By SBR_Slut:
TFB says...firearms, not politics (paraphrased)

(in the comments)

P.S Please consider supporting them on Patreon.
It's much worse than that. In the comment thread for the post about SA's custom shop Phil W. stated the following:

Phil W "Associate Editor TFB" TFB Moderator RSG • 10 hours ago
Drop the political garbage. I'm not embarrassed and Springfield did nothing wrong. Take the tme to investigate that whole situation in IL.
Is Phil the TFB writer whose a member here? It's a P name, possibly Pete. Also Bluefalcon TheWoundChannel writes from them, unless I'm confusing him with 10mm. And there is a 3rd writer who is a member here I can't remember.
Link Posted: 5/1/2017 11:20:50 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Dace:
Originally Posted By America-first:
Originally Posted By notillr:
Originally Posted By Mustang-Man:
Statement from SA

http://blog.springfield-armory.com/springfield-armory-statement-regarding-gun-dealer-licensing-act-sb1657
Didn't even come from the owner. Came from the PR Derpt...
The statement came from:


Stefany Reese, PR & Communications Manager
Springfield Armory, Inc.
stefanyr@springfield-armory.com
309-944-8994


Springfield Armory is a privately held company owned by The Reese Family.
http://blog.springfield-armory.com/how-i-defend-my-legacy-stefany-reese-0

Lives in Southern California. Never fired an AR before.

Stefany Reese’s appreciation for firearms has increased over the years, but living in southern California makes accessing a wide variety of firearms considerably difficult. Though, that doesn’t stop her from enjoying shooting. She frequently hits the range in her local area, and over the Thanksgiving holiday this year, enjoyed shooting on the family farm back in Illinois with family and longtime friends

While Stefany had only fired an AR once prior to her introduction to the SAINT
http://blog.springfield-armory.com/hs-fs/hubfs/image004-1.jpg?t=1493678078410&width=738&name=image004-1.jpg
That's a recipe for success. Their PR and Comms manager only fired an AR for the first time a couple months ago, lives in SoCal, and is a family hire. Lol. Result achieved.
Link Posted: 5/1/2017 11:21:13 PM EDT
I wanted to wait for the responses before making up my mind. Their half-assed lie sealed the deal. Manufacturers throw their consumers under the bus to gain a market advantage.

I hear now that quite a few suppressor companies don't support the HPA behind closed doors. Primarily so they can maintain their market advantage.


This isn't doing much to help reduce my cynicism.
Link Posted: 5/1/2017 11:21:29 PM EDT
I wonder how many people are employed at the lobbying firm. 1? 100k in donations doesn't seem like a lot.
Link Posted: 5/1/2017 11:22:09 PM EDT
I'm saddened by this situation. Now we've truly seen it all. Boys using the girls restroom, illegal immigrants with valid drivers licenses, and now, gun manufacturers that have sold our freedoms for an exception in a new unconstitutional law. I guess it shouldn't surprise us. Not many people have integrity anymore. Such a sad state of affairs.
Link Posted: 5/1/2017 11:23:07 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By mattja:


How many bangers get their guns via straw purchases?

I'm thinking that is not the primary source.
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Dude they're all packing SuperMatches and Range Officers. 
Link Posted: 5/1/2017 11:23:40 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By rob78:
I wanted to wait for the responses before making up my mind. Their half-assed lie sealed the deal. Manufacturers throw their consumers under the bus to gain a market advantage.

I hear now that quite a few suppressor companies don't support the HPA behind closed doors. Primarily so they can maintain their market advantage.


This isn't doing much to help reduce my cynicism.
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Small market individual consumers are just padding for the stretches between government contracts for a lot of these companies.
Link Posted: 5/1/2017 11:23:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/1/2017 11:40:10 PM EDT by Evintos]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By GAhunter95:
I wonder how many people are employed at the lobbying firm. 1? 100k in donations doesn't seem like a lot.
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https://forms.irs.gov/app/pod/basicSearch/search?execution=e5s3&pacid=50494

https://forms.irs.gov/app/pod/basicSearch/search?_eventId_displayForm=true&formId=464628447-990POL-02&formtype=p990&execution=e5s3


Dennis Reese - Director
Tom Reese - Director
Jay Keller - Executive Director
Chuck Larson - Director

(edited to add: if the links stop working the IRS Employer Identification Number (EIN) is: #46-4628447, Illinois Firearms Manufacturers Association, Form 990 has listed key employees)
Link Posted: 5/1/2017 11:26:55 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By HappyCamel:
That's a recipe for success. Their PR and Comms manager only fired an AR for the first time a couple months ago, lives in SoCal, and is a family hire. Lol. Result achieved.
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Originally Posted By HappyCamel:
Originally Posted By Dace:
Originally Posted By America-first:
Originally Posted By notillr:
Originally Posted By Mustang-Man:
Statement from SA

http://blog.springfield-armory.com/springfield-armory-statement-regarding-gun-dealer-licensing-act-sb1657
Didn't even come from the owner. Came from the PR Derpt...
The statement came from:


Stefany Reese, PR & Communications Manager
Springfield Armory, Inc.
stefanyr@springfield-armory.com
309-944-8994


Springfield Armory is a privately held company owned by The Reese Family.
http://blog.springfield-armory.com/how-i-defend-my-legacy-stefany-reese-0

Lives in Southern California. Never fired an AR before.

Stefany Reese’s appreciation for firearms has increased over the years, but living in southern California makes accessing a wide variety of firearms considerably difficult. Though, that doesn’t stop her from enjoying shooting. She frequently hits the range in her local area, and over the Thanksgiving holiday this year, enjoyed shooting on the family farm back in Illinois with family and longtime friends

While Stefany had only fired an AR once prior to her introduction to the SAINT
http://blog.springfield-armory.com/hs-fs/hubfs/image004-1.jpg?t=1493678078410&width=738&name=image004-1.jpg
That's a recipe for success. Their PR and Comms manager only fired an AR for the first time a couple months ago, lives in SoCal, and is a family hire. Lol. Result achieved.
That goes along w/ my theory that the people running things aren't gun owners and sold us out for the exception.   It really looks like these assholes sold us out and that calls a boycott and telling everyone to let them die.
Link Posted: 5/1/2017 11:27:25 PM EDT
Damn.... 2.5 mins!

Thanks.

ok... so really is it just 1 employee (Keller)?.

Reese = SA
Larson = RRA
(would these be titles you get for donating?)



Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
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Link Posted: 5/1/2017 11:28:21 PM EDT
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Interesting...so at least two of them are part of the family that owns SA?
Link Posted: 5/1/2017 11:31:23 PM EDT
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Asleep at the wheel or complicit, SA and RRA both own this. 
Link Posted: 5/1/2017 11:32:09 PM EDT
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Well, there you go. No denying it now. Ol' Jay is not going to do anything that Dennis, Tom or Chuck is not aware of. I am even more disappointed in SA and RRA now. Hiding behind a shell association of which the board of directors is comprised of the senior leaders of SA and RRA. Sorry sacks of monkey s&#t.

Looks like I am going to have to ignore Bearing Arms now, too. Stupid f&^#s did not bother to do any research for their article supporting SA and RRA, other than reading the press releases.
Link Posted: 5/1/2017 11:33:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/1/2017 11:36:31 PM EDT by Azygos]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Drugmanrx:
Interesting...so at least two of them are part of the family that owns SA?
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Originally Posted By Drugmanrx:
Interesting...so at least two of them are part of the family that owns SA?
And 1 of the 3 is the president and one of the founders of RRA.

We see through this sloppy cutout attempt just as we did when ____ __________ tried to claim that a different part of the company bearing the ____ name was responsible for the hiring of antigunners. It took just minutes on a public records search to find corporate filings showing that they all were driven by _____ ____.
Link Posted: 5/1/2017 11:37:46 PM EDT
When you know how deals are cut in IL. its makes this even more hilarious.

ANY firearm related business has its finger on the pulse of firearm legislation in IL. so hard it hurts the artery.

They have millions at risk, their entire livelihoods, their entire business's, the food for their kids table at risk in a state Legislature infamous for trying to sneak thru stupid gun Laws that at least gives the appearance they are doing something about crime in the violent crime capitol of the country. Which is Chicago and collar towns. Then you have Rockford and Joliet and others.

To even think they didnt know what the Lobbying group they pay for was doing for two years, on a bill that so deeply affected them, after an agreement is negotiated that benefits them so greatly? is simply INSANE!

You'd really have to be a moron to believe it. Not even the people in The Land of Linco...<suckers> would believe it.
Link Posted: 5/1/2017 11:40:44 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Evintos:


https://forms.irs.gov/app/pod/basicSearch/search?execution=e5s3&pacid=50494

https://forms.irs.gov/app/pod/basicSearch/search?_eventId_displayForm=true&formId=464628447-990POL-02&formtype=p990&execution=e5s3


Dennis Reese - Director
Tom Reese - Director
Jay Keller - Executive Director
Chuck Larson - Director

(edited to add: if the links stop working the IRS Employer Identification Number (EIN) is: #46-4628447, Illinois Firearms Manufacturers Association, Form 990 has listed key employees)
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Ha. Hahaha. Hahahahahahahahahahahaha
Link Posted: 5/1/2017 11:40:52 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Evintos:


https://forms.irs.gov/app/pod/basicSearch/search?execution=e5s3&pacid=50494

https://forms.irs.gov/app/pod/basicSearch/search?_eventId_displayForm=true&formId=464628447-990POL-02&formtype=p990&execution=e5s3


Dennis Reese - Director
Tom Reese - Director
Jay Keller - Executive Director
Chuck Larson - Director

(edited to add: if the links stop working the IRS Employer Identification Number (EIN) is: #46-4628447, Illinois Firearms Manufacturers Association, Form 990 has listed key employees)
View Quote
Link Posted: 5/1/2017 11:41:51 PM EDT
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Holy fuck. No denying it now- they knew exactly what was happening.
Link Posted: 5/1/2017 11:44:09 PM EDT
Like John Kerry, they were against the bill before they were for it.
Link Posted: 5/2/2017 12:20:12 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Evintos:


https://forms.irs.gov/app/pod/basicSearch/search?execution=e5s3&pacid=50494

https://forms.irs.gov/app/pod/basicSearch/search?_eventId_displayForm=true&formId=464628447-990POL-02&formtype=p990&execution=e5s3


Dennis Reese - Director
Tom Reese - Director
Jay Keller - Executive Director
Chuck Larson - Director

(edited to add: if the links stop working the IRS Employer Identification Number (EIN) is: #46-4628447, Illinois Firearms Manufacturers Association, Form 990 has listed key employees)
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Whatever truth I though might have existed in the RRA/SA statements has just evaporated.
Link Posted: 5/2/2017 12:41:08 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By GAhunter95:
Damn.... 2.5 mins!

Thanks.

ok... so really is it just 1 employee (Keller)?.

Reese = SA
Larson = RRA
(would these be titles you get for donating?)
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Are these these 4 the only employees?
Link Posted: 5/2/2017 12:42:40 AM EDT
Jay Keller is the only employee.
Link Posted: 5/2/2017 12:55:14 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Evintos:


https://forms.irs.gov/app/pod/basicSearch/search?execution=e5s3&pacid=50494

https://forms.irs.gov/app/pod/basicSearch/search?_eventId_displayForm=true&formId=464628447-990POL-02&formtype=p990&execution=e5s3


Dennis Reese - Director
Tom Reese - Director
Jay Keller - Executive Director
Chuck Larson - Director

(edited to add: if the links stop working the IRS Employer Identification Number (EIN) is: #46-4628447, Illinois Firearms Manufacturers Association, Form 990 has listed key employees)
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There you go....

Good work Evintos
Link Posted: 5/2/2017 12:56:51 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Army_of_One:
I don't see where they fired the IFMA. Are they still a member?

ETA: They still don't address the month long "disconnect."
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Originally Posted By Army_of_One:
Originally Posted By pmodas:
Looks like Rock River has released a statement:

http://www.rockriverarms.com/images/pdfs/RRA_Stmt17.pdf
I don't see where they fired the IFMA. Are they still a member?

ETA: They still don't address the month long "disconnect."
Don't get rid of the IFMA no business.
Link Posted: 5/2/2017 12:57:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/2/2017 1:00:07 AM EDT by GNRNR]
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Originally Posted By SwanHunter:
Jay Keller is the only employee.
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Yup

https://www.campaignmoney.com/political/527/illinois-firearms-manufacturers-association.asp
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