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Link Posted: 5/4/2017 1:15:03 AM EDT
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I would wager to advertise services, as the executive director of the IFMA

Isn't SHOT an industry show, not open to the general public?
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Correct, and as far as I know, you have credentials to get in to the SHOT show.

So that means you are like "sponsored" by some company, some manufacturer, and they like add you to the SHOT show guest list under that company's name.

I have never been myself, so if I am wrong please feel free to correct me.

Was Keller there at SHOT under SA or RRA credentials?

Or was he there under his own IFMA credentials?

That would be ironic if there is a pic of Keller working either the SA or RRA booth, especially if it shows him yucking it up with the CEO of either company.

Or worse yet, if there is a pic of him meeting with any other reps or CEOs from other firearm manufacturers, especially those behind enemy lines.
Link Posted: 5/4/2017 1:18:49 AM EDT
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They've had Keller on the payroll since at least 2013 I believe it was, and Madigan has never and will never do anything to benefit gun rights. He had to be dragged kicking and screaming by the Appellate court to get concealed carry and tried repeatedly to fuck with it.
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Its been difficult getting  pro2A bills considered since then. Talk is many Dems/anti 2A folks in the legislature are STILL butt hurt about the CCL legislation (get over it!) and pretty much have put up roadblocks for any pro2A bills submitted since with many never naking it to committee hearings.  They are supposedly looking for something in exchange as they feel they are owed.
Link Posted: 5/4/2017 1:23:48 AM EDT
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They use to make really nice 1911s and I almost bought one 16ish years ago but bought a Kimber since I wanted stainless.
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I wanted one of those 1911s.
Link Posted: 5/4/2017 1:29:51 AM EDT
Just thinking ahead here....

The USPSA Single Stack Nationals is sponsored by Springfield Armory.

It is scheduled to be held on May 17-20.

It'll be held at PASA Park near Quincy, IL.

It seems to me that if Springfield Armory can't navigate themselves out of this situation soon, there might be some USPSA competitors backing out of the match and asking for their entry fees to be refunded.

EDIT:  and if competitors start asking for refunds, then that will really put USPSA HQ in a bind.

I have said long ago that any nationals level shooting match needs to be moved out of Illinois.

Why should shooters from gun friendlier states be forced to piss their tourist dollars away in this anti-gun state?
Link Posted: 5/4/2017 1:35:09 AM EDT
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Quoted:
Just thinking ahead here....

The USPSA Single Stack Nationals is sponsored by Springfield Armory.

It is scheduled to be held on May 17-20.

It'll be held at PASA Park near Quincy, IL.

It seems to me that if Springfield Armory can't navigate themselves out of this situation soon, there might be some USPSA competitors backing out of the match and asking for their entry fees to be refunded.
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I don't know the Benedict Arnold National Match has a nice ring to it, winner gets thirty pieces of silver.
Link Posted: 5/4/2017 1:47:51 AM EDT
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An accusation was made and then appears to be supported by corroborating evidence that SA "donated" money to democratic, anti-gun politicians.

If you ever read the other 9 amendments in the Bill of Rights, you'll know that the 6A guarantees the right for a defendant in a criminal case to face his accuser in open court.

And if the defendant so desires to take the stand in his own defense.

In this court of public opinion, I can at least wait for what SA has to say with respect to these "donations", in their defense.

And if you have been paying attention, you'll notice that I put "donations" in quotations marks.

It, being the Chicago way, one man's donations may be another man's extortion racket.

Maybe?

Possibly?
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Quoted:
Quoted:

You have excuses for them in the response.  What does it take for you to give up on them?  You have a steady stream of facts that get worse for them every passing day, yet you will "keep my pitchfork and torch in the shed until I hear something from Dennis Reese to explain away the donations to democratic politicians."  You just need any excuse from them to make it OK?  They contributed money to people that are actively oppressing your rights and you still think moving out of state would make things OK.  May your chains rest lightly...
An accusation was made and then appears to be supported by corroborating evidence that SA "donated" money to democratic, anti-gun politicians.

If you ever read the other 9 amendments in the Bill of Rights, you'll know that the 6A guarantees the right for a defendant in a criminal case to face his accuser in open court.

And if the defendant so desires to take the stand in his own defense.

In this court of public opinion, I can at least wait for what SA has to say with respect to these "donations", in their defense.

And if you have been paying attention, you'll notice that I put "donations" in quotations marks.

It, being the Chicago way, one man's donations may be another man's extortion racket.

Maybe?

Possibly?
Edited because I was way behind in the thread.
Link Posted: 5/4/2017 2:08:03 AM EDT
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Quoted:
Just thinking ahead here....

The USPSA Single Stack Nationals is sponsored by Springfield Armory.

It is scheduled to be held on May 17-20.

It'll be held at PASA Park near Quincy, IL.

It seems to me that if Springfield Armory can't navigate themselves out of this situation soon, there might be some USPSA competitors backing out of the match and asking for their entry fees to be refunded.

EDIT:  and if competitors start asking for refunds, then that will really put USPSA HQ in a bind.

I have said long ago that any nationals level shooting match needs to be moved out of Illinois.

Why should shooters from gun friendlier states be forced to piss their tourist dollars away in this anti-gun state?
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I feel sorry for the SA guys in the vendor tent.
Link Posted: 5/4/2017 2:12:31 AM EDT
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That was yesterday...or maybeveven the day before.

Some additional news was brought to light by the TTAG blog.

It appears....it appears.... that Keller waa planing the carve out for SA and RRA prior to January 2017...before SHOT.

That to me proves "malice of forethought" to throw us Illinois residents under the bus.

So I have revised my opinion/position.

Keller, SA, and RRA can all go fuck themselves.

Now, I am getting pissed.

Link Posted: 5/4/2017 2:27:58 AM EDT
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Quoted:
That was yesterday...or maybeveven the day before.

Some additional news was brought to light by the TTAG blog.

It appears....it appears.... that Keller waa planing the carve out for SA and RRA prior to January 2017...before SHOT.

That to me proves "malice of forethought" to throw us Illinois residents under the bus.

So I have revised my opinion/position.

Keller, SA, and RRA can all go fuck themselves.

Now, I am getting pissed.

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Quoted:
That was yesterday...or maybeveven the day before.

Some additional news was brought to light by the TTAG blog.

It appears....it appears.... that Keller waa planing the carve out for SA and RRA prior to January 2017...before SHOT.

That to me proves "malice of forethought" to throw us Illinois residents under the bus.

So I have revised my opinion/position.

Keller, SA, and RRA can all go fuck themselves.

Now, I am getting pissed.

I apologize then I was way behind in this thread.  So sorry.  
Link Posted: 5/4/2017 2:42:57 AM EDT
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Quoted:
That was yesterday...or maybeveven the day before.

Some additional news was brought to light by the TTAG blog.

It appears....it appears.... that Keller waa planing the carve out for SA and RRA prior to January 2017...before SHOT.

That to me proves "malice of forethought" to throw us Illinois residents under the bus.

So I have revised my opinion/position.

Keller, SA, and RRA can all go fuck themselves.

Now, I am getting pissed.

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Quoted:
That was yesterday...or maybeveven the day before.

Some additional news was brought to light by the TTAG blog.

It appears....it appears.... that Keller waa planing the carve out for SA and RRA prior to January 2017...before SHOT.

That to me proves "malice of forethought" to throw us Illinois residents under the bus.

So I have revised my opinion/position.

Keller, SA, and RRA can all go fuck themselves.

Now, I am getting pissed.

Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 5/4/2017 2:54:38 AM EDT
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I LOL'ed.

Thanks, I needed that.
Link Posted: 5/4/2017 3:21:11 AM EDT
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Quoted:


I apologize then I was way behind in this thread.  So sorry.  
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Apology accepted.

No worries, and thank you sir for the IM.
Link Posted: 5/4/2017 4:12:39 AM EDT
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Quoted:


lol I got that too


I unsubscribed
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Same here
Link Posted: 5/4/2017 4:25:28 AM EDT
I received an e-mail from [email protected] titled, "SPREAD THE WORD | 2nd Amendment Threatened in Illinois" with a link to the NRA.
Dear Scott,

The 2nd Amendment urgently needs your help in Illinois!

The Illinois House of Representatives may consider Senate Bill 1657, legislation that could put state gun dealers out of business, at any time!
It is imperative you share this with friends and family living in Illinois and strongly urge them to OPPOSE SB 1657!

Link Posted: 5/4/2017 6:20:33 AM EDT
Keller coulda been a Russian sub captain

Link Posted: 5/4/2017 7:17:32 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/4/2017 7:22:47 AM EDT
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Quoted:
SA sent out an email last night asking people to oppose this bill (I assume it's the same bill)
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"Please help us clean up the mess we paid to create!"
Link Posted: 5/4/2017 8:54:32 AM EDT
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Quoted:
The future will be strong with people in the community like we have here. Sure some folks are a little quick to jump on the offensive, but maybe I'm also a bit slow to join in.
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Quoted:
Gracias mi hermano. Este es un asunto muy importante y los tiempos están cambiando en la forma en que la gente puede moldear el futuro.
The future will be strong with people in the community like we have here. Sure some folks are a little quick to jump on the offensive, but maybe I'm also a bit slow to join in.
ARFCOM doesn't need to be seen as endorsing them by allowing them to have an official presence on the site.

ARF is not "doing" anything to them, they can go play anywhere else they want but they're not coming in here covered in shit & expecting to be hugged, welcomed and tacitly endorsed.

"Here's your refund, if you are able to clean up your company's image in the future, please contact us to discuss."
Link Posted: 5/4/2017 9:18:27 AM EDT
Well a few days after two Chicago cops, one a Boss's son, got lit up by gangbangers with a 5.56mm its likely even more draconian legislation is OTW to IL.

The Politicians figure the suckers wont realize its already illegal to shoot cops with rifles and no doubt a felony for the gangs to even own the guns. But locking up to many minorities for to long is racist so its times to pile even more Laws on top of each other and criminalize citizens who have no arrest records. It will at least give the illusion they are doing something about gangster INC. and let them keep their sweet benefits packages.

Meanwhile the nations 2nd biggest Dept. still doesnt have its own outdoor range to run AR classes for officers to qualify to carry the weapons. It has to depend on Harvey PD, a ghetto town of 25,000 south of the city, that isnt able to share much. So there is a big backlog of CPD waiting to get qualified, while most who are dont bother checking one out.
Link Posted: 5/4/2017 9:34:43 AM EDT
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Quoted:

Keller coulda been a Russian sub captain

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDBCiZKZi_g
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Link Posted: 5/4/2017 9:35:35 AM EDT
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Quoted:
SA sent out an email last night asking people to oppose this bill (I assume it's the same bill)
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But still haven't said they won't take the carve out if it passes...
Link Posted: 5/4/2017 9:37:10 AM EDT
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Quoted:
SA sent out an email last night asking people to oppose this bill (I assume it's the same bill)
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WUT!!??

I can't take it anymore Aimless.............I NEED help!!!!!!!!!

Link Posted: 5/4/2017 9:53:48 AM EDT
Soooo has RRA or SA come out with any new messages explaining the donations or their incompetence in keeping track of their "rogue"  lobbyist?

Link Posted: 5/4/2017 10:05:32 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


That was yesterday...or maybeveven the day before.

Some additional news was brought to light by the TTAG blog.

It appears....it appears.... that Keller waa planing the carve out for SA and RRA prior to January 2017...before SHOT.

That to me proves "malice of forethought" to throw us Illinois residents under the bus.

So I have revised my opinion/position.

Keller, SA, and RRA can all go fuck themselves.

Now, I am getting pissed.

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I knew you'd come around
Link Posted: 5/4/2017 10:13:46 AM EDT
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Quoted:

Keller, SA, and RRA can all go fuck themselves.

Now, I am getting pissed.


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Link Posted: 5/4/2017 10:21:24 AM EDT
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Quoted:
No, bipartisan support does not equal the one Republican that voted for that mess of a bill.
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It does when the democrats are shoving more of their agenda down our throats and need a traitor to help.

If the republicans are passing anything the democrat party doesn't want it is "mostly on partisan lines".
Link Posted: 5/4/2017 10:35:12 AM EDT
Here's the cock sucker republican who voted for the bills facebook. 

Facebook.

Anti gunners are thanking him for his "bravery" and "putting children first".  

Light his ass up guys with facebook. 
Link Posted: 5/4/2017 11:07:29 AM EDT
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Quoted:
I knew you'd come around
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Now it's Goatboy's turn.
Link Posted: 5/4/2017 11:15:40 AM EDT
He's deleting the comments.

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Quoted:
Here's the cock sucker republican who voted for the bills facebook. 

Facebook.

Anti gunners are thanking him for his "bravery" and "putting children first".  

Light his ass up guys with facebook. 
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Link Posted: 5/4/2017 11:25:38 AM EDT
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Quoted:
He's deleting the comments.

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Quoted:
He's deleting the comments.

Quoted:
Here's the cock sucker republican who voted for the bills facebook. 

Facebook.

Anti gunners are thanking him for his "bravery" and "putting children first".  

Light his ass up guys with facebook. 
he has been deleting all the comments against him but he leaves up the Bloomberg shills comments thanking him for his "courage"   I guess courage is slang for suitcase of money from Bloomberg. 
Link Posted: 5/4/2017 11:33:30 AM EDT
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Quoted:
He's deleting the comments.
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Silly peasants. Free speech and tolerance are not 2-way streets. Progressives/antifas/leftists demand to be free to speak what they want. We must tolerate it. There's no expectation to hear nor tolerance of dissenting opinions. Usually this can be accomplished by censoring and wiping negative comments on social media. Keep in mind that social media, privately owned or publicly traded, conveniently isn't constrained by rigorous scrutiny of freedom. The next tier on the force continuum is usually shouting down someone who dissents, or letting the press do the work. If necessary, a sympathetic legal system can accomplish the task, reserving the outright violence mostly for their street soldiers and clandestine special activities groups.

They're not stupid.
Link Posted: 5/4/2017 11:39:55 AM EDT
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Quoted:
SA sent out an email last night asking people to oppose this bill (I assume it's the same bill)
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I received it as well.  Responded, "A little late to the party aren't you?"
Link Posted: 5/4/2017 12:00:13 PM EDT
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Thank you for keeping up with this and sharing the info you've gained.

On a positive note, RRA has been very active the past two days in getting new lobbyists involved and have shown a willingness to put everything on the line to defeat this bill. People involved do not feel this it's an act to save face, especially since it hasn't even been publicly reported, and welcome their commitment.
From the start it always felt like RRA was oblivious to what the lobbyist was doing. Maybe that's wrong, but that continues to be my take, especially with the above information. I'm willing to forgive them at this point. I don't begrudge others who don't, however.

For SA, the jury is still out.
Link Posted: 5/4/2017 12:11:36 PM EDT
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Quoted:
Thank you for keeping up with this and sharing the info you've gained.

From the start it always felt like RRA was oblivious to what the lobbyist was doing. Maybe that's wrong, but that continues to be my take, especially with the above information. I'm willing to forgive them at this point. I don't begrudge others who don't, however.

For SA, the jury is still out.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Thank you for keeping up with this and sharing the info you've gained.

On a positive note, RRA has been very active the past two days in getting new lobbyists involved and have shown a willingness to put everything on the line to defeat this bill. People involved do not feel this it's an act to save face, especially since it hasn't even been publicly reported, and welcome their commitment.
From the start it always felt like RRA was oblivious to what the lobbyist was doing. Maybe that's wrong, but that continues to be my take, especially with the above information. I'm willing to forgive them at this point. I don't begrudge others who don't, however.

For SA, the jury is still out.
There was an interesting post on SA FB page:  Something along the lines of, so based on your press release I see two options:  1.  You are lying and need to go out of business because you are a traitor to the 2A or 2:  You are stupid and failed to check up on your paid lobbyist for over a month with an anti-gun bill in your state legislature and deserve to go out of business.

That about sums it up for me.  Traitors should be punished.  Stupid should hurt.
Link Posted: 5/4/2017 12:23:38 PM EDT
The isra just came out saying we just need to get the bill killed then do the needful with Sa & RRA.  

Oh and so I don't get called an apologist
FSA
FRRA


Their email...

"Executive Director's Message

During the Revolutionary War, Thomas Paine wrote:  "These are the times that try men's souls.  The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from service of his country; but he that stands it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman."  Thomas Paine must have been thinking of Springfield, as well as the fledgling United States.

These coming weeks are going to be among the toughest, if not the toughest, we have ever faced.  There are those who are squandering megajoules of valuable energy assessing blame, finger pointing, and hurling recriminations without knowing the whole story; all actions which only compound the problem and do nothing to solve it.  Now is the time to stick together.  The Illinois State Rifle Association is going to press forward with every resource we have to protect and defend gun owners' rights and the Second Amendment in Illinois.  Those rights include the rights of individuals, firearm dealers, manufactures, and all of the numerous other elements that make up the matrix of the law-abiding gun community.  I view this matrix in terms of the NATO doctrine, which is, "An attack on one is an attack on all." I ask that you put behind you all of the venom and anger and stand together to fight the looming menace of SB1657. That is the only way to win.

I am pleased to announce the Illinois State Rifle Association has contracted with former State Representative, and now lobbyist, Ed Sullivan.  Ed was a former leader in the Illinois House Republicans and was a driving force in passing the concealed carry bill in 2013.  Ed is well respected on both sides of the House and will be working with the ISRA during the last few weeks of session to turn back SB1657.  This Dealer Licensing bill moves to the House next week.

As I have said, the ISRA will be fighting with every resource so we really need whatever help you can give us.  We don't have George Soros or a Michael Bloomberg.  We survive on dues and donations.  If you are a member, please make a donation today.  If you are not a member, and get this email, please join today and make a donation also."
Link Posted: 5/4/2017 12:37:40 PM EDT
It's looking worse and worse for SAI and RRA

Proof That Springfield Armory and Rock River Knew of Licensing Carve-Out Last Year?


This bill [SB 1657] was introduced into the Illinois House last Spring and defeated. It contained the exact same language as the present
bill. But if you read the House transcript on the day it was defeated,  you will see the House sponsor, Rep. Willis describing Amendment 6 which
is exactly where the carve out was added.

He also describes the language of the carve out as “So… we took in… making sure we added additional exemptions, we put in the manufacturers
of firearms are exempt, and that is, in fact, one of the reasons we had so many making sure that we listen to their language and put their language in
there directly.”

That means the manufacturers were already aware of the provision and as a matter of fact, they wrote the actual language that provided them
an exemption. So how is it possible that Springfield Armory didn’t know about it?

Read it for yourself: http://www.ilga.gov/house/transcripts/htrans99/09900138.pdf
Link Posted: 5/4/2017 1:16:32 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
It's looking worse and worse for SAI and RRA

Proof That Springfield Armory and Rock River Knew of Licensing Carve-Out Last Year?


This bill [SB 1657] was introduced into the Illinois House last Spring and defeated. It contained the exact same language as the present
bill. But if you read the House transcript on the day it was defeated,  you will see the House sponsor, Rep. Willis describing Amendment 6 which
is exactly where the carve out was added.

He also describes the language of the carve out as “So… we took in… making sure we added additional exemptions, we put in the manufacturers
of firearms are exempt, and that is, in fact, one of the reasons we had so many making sure that we listen to their language and put their language in
there directly.”

That means the manufacturers were already aware of the provision and as a matter of fact, they wrote the actual language that provided them
an exemption. So how is it possible that Springfield Armory didn’t know about it?

Read it for yourself: http://www.ilga.gov/house/transcripts/htrans99/09900138.pdf
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Oops
Link Posted: 5/4/2017 2:21:11 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
It's looking worse and worse for SAI and RRA

Proof That Springfield Armory and Rock River Knew of Licensing Carve-Out Last Year?


This bill [SB 1657] was introduced into the Illinois House last Spring and defeated. It contained the exact same language as the present
bill. But if you read the House transcript on the day it was defeated,  you will see the House sponsor, Rep. Willis describing Amendment 6 which
is exactly where the carve out was added.

He also describes the language of the carve out as “So… we took in… making sure we added additional exemptions, we put in the manufacturers
of firearms are exempt, and that is, in fact, one of the reasons we had so many making sure that we listen to their language and put their language in
there directly.”

That means the manufacturers were already aware of the provision and as a matter of fact, they wrote the actual language that provided them
an exemption. So how is it possible that Springfield Armory didn’t know about it?

Read it for yourself: http://www.ilga.gov/house/transcripts/htrans99/09900138.pdf
View Quote
This Keller guy must have come from the coal mining industry cause he's sure good at getting really deep holes started, that just seem to keep digging themselves deeper all by themselves...
Link Posted: 5/4/2017 2:23:26 PM EDT
The plot thickens.  So does the mess they stepped in. 
Link Posted: 5/4/2017 2:44:58 PM EDT
Really, the balls of them to even say they didnt know what their own paid Lobbyist was doing while he was negotiating exemptions for them from a draconian piece of anti-gun Legislation, even when he was greasing anti-2nd Politicians on their behalf. My God they must think were all morons.

Even if I lived on a mountain in Tibet I wouldnt believe them let alone having so many decades of seeing how these schmucks operate in this state. LOL, Jesse Jackson JR while a Rep in IL., and his wife, get caught stealing from their campaign to live large and he negotiates a reduced sentence saying he's "Bi-Polar". THEN! He gets $130,000 a year from SSI while he is in and after he's out for being disabled with Bi Polar. There aint nothing on the up and up in IL.

4 of the last 8 ex-Governors have gone to Jail for Gods sake. One of them, George Ryan, the one who suspended the death penalty to try and get support for a more lenient sentence, once went an entire year with his large family and was only able to prove he spent $4 of his own money. This was a guy who was seen at a fancy steak house every night with his wife and family.
Link Posted: 5/4/2017 2:54:31 PM EDT
I can't take this anymore after I read the email they sent, the public messages, this keeps going thru my mind. make it stop.
Link Posted: 5/4/2017 2:57:35 PM EDT
We need a list of the people they advertise with so we can email and call them to voice our displeasure and hopefully lose them some advertising. These sell outs must be punished. 

I don't know how to find their advertisers or I'd do it myself. 
Link Posted: 5/4/2017 3:01:44 PM EDT
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We need a list of the people they advertise with so we can email and call them to voice our displeasure and hopefully lose them some advertising. These sell outs must be punished. 

I don't know how to find their advertisers or I'd do it myself. 
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They pay for advertisements, let them stay.
Link Posted: 5/4/2017 3:02:23 PM EDT
I would like to know what is being said behind the scenes at HS Produkt, I wonder what a pissed off Croatian sounds like ?
Link Posted: 5/4/2017 3:03:32 PM EDT
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Quoted:


Same here
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Link Posted: 5/4/2017 3:04:49 PM EDT
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They pay for advertisements, let them stay.
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No thanks. I want scorched earth on these assholes.  Anyone who lets them advertise or sells their products should be told what they did and given the opportunity to take a stand against both companies. 
Link Posted: 5/4/2017 3:06:12 PM EDT
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Now it's Goatboy's turn.
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Goatboy will make the right choice once he gets enough information. Personally I think there's enough information out to sink both companies but Goatboy has to look at it from the business end of it and can't make rash decisions.  
Link Posted: 5/4/2017 3:50:10 PM EDT
Time to thrown my XD down the driveway and into the trashcan?
Link Posted: 5/4/2017 4:05:13 PM EDT
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Time to thrown my XD down the driveway and into the trashcan?
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No point in selling or destroying a gun from either of them. They already have your money from that purchase so all you can do is not buy a single fucking part from either and tell all your friends/family not to support them.  
Link Posted: 5/4/2017 4:42:54 PM EDT
I am the reader that wrote the article that showed up on TTAG this morning. I have enough research to believe that this was a long time plan that was first attempted last year.
Proof that Springfield Arms and Rock River knew about the carve out last year
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