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Posted: 4/28/2017 5:52:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/3/2017 6:14:14 AM EDT by stascom]
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/04/john-boch/springfield-armory-rock-river-arms-trade-opposition-to-illinois-ffl-licensing-scheme-for-carve-out/

Earlier today, the Illinois State Senate passed bill SB-1657 by a one-vote margin. While its prospects are still unsure in the House, if signed by Governor Bruce Rauner, the new law will mandate state licensing for all Illinois gun dealers. It will also restrict all others in Illinois to nine firearm transfers per year.

The lobbyist for the Illinois Firearms Manufacturers Association (IFMA), Jay Keller, traded that group’s opposition to the bill in exchange for a carve-out, removing Prairie State firearms manufacturers from the licensing requirements.

Two companies provide the bulk of the funding for IFMA: Springfield Armory and Rock River Arms.


-------------------------------------------
Compiled by Army_of_One
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=============== up to/including page 6 ===================

Originally Posted By Mal_means_bad:
TTAG posted Springfield's CEO's response to their article, which is bullshit:

In response to a request for comment on the deal, Springfield Armory CEO Dennis Reese gave TTAG the following statement:“The legislative process is a fluid process. The bill has only moved through one chamber, and it is still in the process. We fully support the Second Amendment and stand by it. The Illinois Manufacturers Association will continue to fight and protect not only manufacturers, but dealers and the gun owner as well.”https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/89/8c/b6/898cb61349f2abe38fa24d3b7ba1d2bc.jpg

I say this as an owner of a half dozen Springfield firearms.

Originally Posted By stevelish:
Originally Posted By Lapidary:
I'll wait until more details come out to pass judgement.

Springfield and RRA donate money to a "firearms manufacturer's assoc." and that assoc. changed position from "opposed" to "no opinion" on a bill I haven't read the complete details on? That is what I have so far. That leaves some questions for me.
NRA-ILA is a good enough source for me.

Originally Posted By InterestedBystander:
Originally Posted By WeimaranerDad:
I got this link from the IllinoisCarry thread:

https://www.bizapedia.com/il/illinois-firearms-manufacturers-association.html

I have no idea how accurate that is, but according to that link, the Illinois Firearms Manufacturer Association was dissolved a while ago.

Methinks something fucky is going on



EDIT: for now, I think I'll just sit quietly in the Observe part of my OODA loop.

but could it have been dissolved and reformed as a different type of corporation? They have been making political contributions since 2009

https://www.illinoissunshine.org/search/?term= Illinois Firearms Manufacturers Association&table_name=candidates&table_name=committees&table_name=officers&table_name=receipts


Formed in 2009

http://nonprofit-990.bugaco.com/nonprofit/271421291/illinois-firearms-manufacturers-association/overview

Originally Posted By Evintos:
Originally Posted By WeimaranerDad:
I got this link from the IllinoisCarry thread:

https://www.bizapedia.com/il/illinois-firearms-manufacturers-association.html

I have no idea how accurate that is, but according to that link, the Illinois Firearms Manufacturer Association was dissolved a while ago.

Methinks something fucky is going on



EDIT: for now, I think I'll just sit quietly in the Observe part of my OODA loop.
https://www.campaignmoney.com/political/527/illinois-firearms-manufacturers-association.asp

Establish date: 01/24/2014
Contributors:
Rock River Arms
Colona, IL 61241$50,00005/31/2014

Springfield Armory
Geneseo, IL 61254$50,00005/31/2014

Contact Person:Jay A. Keller
Contact Address:
PO Box 9292
Naperville, IL 60567

Originally Posted By dollarbillme:
Here is a link to the witness slips

http://my.ilga.gov/Hearing/LegislationInfo?hearingId=14794&tab=1&CClerkVoteId=17998&LegislationDocumentId=135332&PreviousHearings-page=8&chamber=S&_=1493431604410

And to the actual bill language

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/fulltext.asp?DocName=&SessionId=91&GA=100&DocTypeId=SB&DocNum=1657&GAID=14&LegID=104404&SpecSess=&Session=

Originally Posted By SwanHunter:
In committee, the sponsor of the bill announced he had worked things out with the manufacturers' lobbyist and an exemption in the bill had been added for them.

During the floor debate at the minute mark 2:04:38, the sponsor is quoted saying, “I have done the best I could to amend the bill to eliminate opposition. We have secured the neutrality of the gun manufacturers and their suppliers. There are clear exemptions in the bill for them.”

Here is a link to the video but it is password protected -


Here is a link to the witness slips clearly showing Jay Keller's witness slip where he changed his position and it is posted as 'no position', which means neutral.

Originally Posted By dollarbillme:
Originally Posted By Lapidary:


I don't see anything in the bill that limits transfers.



Here's a link to the bill text

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/fulltext.asp?DocName=&SessionId=91&GA=100&DocTypeId=SB&DocNum=1657&GAID=14&LegID=104404&SpecSess=&Session=

13 Section 15. Exemptions. The provisions of this Act related
14to the licensure of dealers and dealerships do not apply to a
15person or other entity that engages in the following
16activities:
17 (1) transfers of less than 10 firearms within each calendar
18year
;



They way I read it, if you transfer buy/sell more than 9 guns a year, you are then considered a dealer to the state.

Thus, private citizens are limited to 9 transfers a year. Sure doesn't sound like "shall not be infringed" to me.

Originally Posted By splunkinoob:
Originally Posted By Action45:
Originally Posted By NM_desert_rat:

That's a horrible strategy circa 2017.
In the age of social media, the majority of damage to your brand is done in the first 48 hours. Agreed. Lack of an official statement by either company at this point tells me everything I need to know.

SA - CEO

“The legislative process is a fluid process. The bill has only moved through one chamber, and it is still in the process. We fully support the Second Amendment and stand by it. The Illinois Manufacturers Association will continue to fight and protect not only manufacturers, but dealers and the gun owner as well.”

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/04/daniel-zimmerman/statement-from-springfield-armory-ceo-denny-reese-on-ifma-deal-illinois-anti-gun-legislation/



================= Page 13-17 ===================

Originally Posted By splunkinoob:
Originally Posted By Action45:
Originally Posted By NM_desert_rat:

That's a horrible strategy circa 2017.
In the age of social media, the majority of damage to your brand is done in the first 48 hours. Agreed. Lack of an official statement by either company at this point tells me everything I need to know.

SA - CEO

“The legislative process is a fluid process. The bill has only moved through one chamber, and it is still in the process. We fully support the Second Amendment and stand by it. The Illinois Manufacturers Association will continue to fight and protect not only manufacturers, but dealers and the gun owner as well.”

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/04/daniel-zimmerman/statement-from-springfield-armory-ceo-denny-reese-on-ifma-deal-illinois-anti-gun-legislation/

Originally Posted By SBR_Slut:
TFB says...firearms, not politics (paraphrased)

(in the comments)

P.S Please consider supporting them on Patreon.

Originally Posted By pmodas:
Looks like Rock River has released a statement:

http://www.rockriverarms.com/images/pdfs/RRA_Stmt17.pdf


For immediate release: May 1, 2017

Rock River Arms, Inc.® (RRA) wants to assure the Illinois (and national) firearms community that we are
still 100 percent opposed to the Gun Dealer Licensing Act - SB1657, the house version of the same bill,
and any potential final legislation that may come from those bills along with any other infringements on
the gun rights of law-abiding citizens everywhere.

For more than twenty years, Rock River Arms and Springfield Armory have actively opposed gun control
legislation at the local, state, and federal levels. In 2009, we partnered with other manufacturers to form
an organization geared towards representing our interests - The Illinois Firearms Manufacturers
Association (IFMA). Historically, that organization has done well in representing us in Springfield, Illinois.
We had no reason to believe that it was doing anything beyond representing the firearms community’s
(Illinois firearms manufacturers, dealers and gun owners) best interests, keeping us well-informed on
relevant legislation and issues, acting on our behalf. In the case of SB1657, there was a disconnect and
that representation was misguided.

While we do believe that IFMA acted in what it felt was the best interests of its members, we were as
shocked as everyone else to find ourselves exempted from provisions of SB1657 and that IFMA was no
longer opposing that bill, even though RRA still opposed it.
Again, Rock River Arms wants to emphasize (regardless of anything that may have been said or done,
mistakenly or otherwise, by any other party on our behalf) its continued total opposition to SB1657, the
Illinois House version of the bill and any final legislation that may emerge. This includes any provisions
found in Gun Dealer Licensing Act SB1657, along with any other threats that may infringe upon our gun
rights.

If you have any further questions or require more information about our position, please contact:
Sarah Larson, General Manager or Steve Mayer, LE, Government, and International Sales Manager
at 309-792-5780.

Thank you.
Chuck Larson
President/Owner
Rock River Arms, Inc.

Originally Posted By Mustang-Man:
Statement from SA

http://blog.springfield-armory.com/springfield-armory-statement-regarding-gun-dealer-licensing-act-sb1657

Originally Posted By Lazyshooter:
RRA President's statement refers to the "House version of the same bill".
It seems the owner doesn't even know what the bill number in the House is.

It is HB2541

http://ilga.gov/legislation/BillStatus.asp?DocTypeID=HB&DocNum=2541&GAID=14&SessionID=91&LegID=103735

Originally Posted By Sputnik556:
Well, now that that's settled.
https://bearingarms.com/bob-o/2017/05/01/springfield-armory-rock-river-arms-oppose-gun-dealer-licensing-act/

Originally Posted By Evintos:
https://www.opensecrets.org/527s/527cmtedetail_donors.php?ein=464628447&cycle=2016

$50,000 Rock River Arms Colona IL 05/31/2016
$50,000 Springfield Armory Geneseo IL 05/31/2016
$50,000 Rock River Arms Colona IL 06/05/2015
$50,000 Springfield Armory Geneseo IL 05/25/2015

Since 2014, both companies donated $50k annually into the IFMA and the best they can do is a damage control statement? What a load of crap.

$150k from each company into the organization (to date) and they aren't aware of the organization's actions? Not buying it.

Originally Posted By Evintos:
Originally Posted By GAhunter95:
I wonder how many people are employed at the lobbying firm. 1? 100k in donations doesn't seem like a lot.

https://forms.irs.gov/app/pod/basicSearch/search?execution=e5s3&pacid=50494

https://forms.irs.gov/app/pod/basicSearch/search?_eventId_displayForm=true&formId=464628447-990POL-02&formtype=p990&execution=e5s3


Dennis Reese - Director
Tom Reese - Director
Jay Keller - Executive Director
Chuck Larson - Director

(edited to add: if the links stop working the IRS Employer Identification Number (EIN) is: #46-4628447, Illinois Firearms Manufacturers Association, Form 990 has listed key employees)

Originally Posted By GNRNR:
Originally Posted By SwanHunter:
Jay Keller is the only employee.

Yup

https://www.campaignmoney.com/political/527/illinois-firearms-manufacturers-association.asp




============================ 18 to 24 =============================

Originally Posted By stascom:
For posterity

http://i.imgur.com/kwVWwN2.jpg

Originally Posted By GNRNR:
Jay Keller email

jah3931@aol.com

Has been a lobbyist in Illinois since 1989.

Lobbyist for SA as early as 2008

http://edgarcountywatchdogs.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/2008-RFPs-Recieved.pdf

Originally Posted By inmyshadow:
SA and RRA can back pedal all they want. They created this lobbying group. They give it little oversight. They don't want to accept fault.

Until they accept full responsibility for their actions and make this right, I'll never a use a new SA part in my M1A. Nor will I buy any new RRA part. If the bill is signed into law, I'll never use their brands(new/used) again.


http://www.captainsjournal.com/2017/05/01/springfield-armory-rock-river-arms-and-the-illinois-firearms-manufacturers-association-licensing-scheme/

Originally Posted By InterestedBystander:
And it just gets better...

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/05/john-boch/springfield-armory-rock-river-arms-made-campaign-contributions-to-anti-gun-rights-politicians/

..."The gun community continues to react to news of a deal made by Springfield Armory and Rock River Arms to carve out an exemption from a state licensing scheme (SB-1657). Both Springfield and Rock River Arms have issued statements denying any knowledge of the deal negotiated on their behalf by the lobbyist for the Illinois Firearms Manufacturing Association (IFMA). An organization funded by Springfield Armory and Rock River Arms.

We can now reveal that Springfield and Rock River have, through IFMA, donated tens of thousands of dollars to Illinois anti-gun politicians over the last several years."...

Originally Posted By America-first:
But wait; there's more.....

Looks like Springfield Armory also used their "trade organization" to funnel political donations to anti gun politicians on the down low.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/05/john-boch/springfield-armory-rock-river-arms-made-campaign-contributions-to-anti-gun-rights-politicians/

It keeps looking worse and worse.

Originally Posted By InterestedBystander:
New RRA statement on IFMA

https://www.rockriverarms.com/images/pdfs/RRA_Stmt217.pdf

For immediate release: May 2, 2017

After further review, Rock River Arms, Inc.® (RRA) is immediately severing all ties with the Illinois Firearms Manufacturers Association (IFMA). We feel that IFMAs integrity is compromised and we will not be a part of the organization. We trusted that contributions and resources provided to IFMA by RRA were being used to promote and uphold our 2nd Amendment values. IFMAs actions have destroyed that trust.

For more than twenty years, RRA has actively opposed gun control legislation at the local, state, and federal levels. We have supported and provided monetary and product donations to multiple pro-gun organizations including NRA, NSSF, ISRA and countless others. We have attended rallies and spoken at educational events on behalf of gun owners rights. Our employees have collected signatures, written letters and e-mails, called legislators offices, as well as attended events, meetings and hearings in Springfield, Illinois.

What we learned, however, was that we are better at manufacturing firearms and accessories than playing political games at the state capitol. So, we began to utilize the services of lobbyists, first through other organizations and then in 2009, we partnered with several other manufacturers to form IFMA.

Prior to our further review, we believed that the organization had accurately represented us. We feel that IFMAs actions have compromised its integrity. While their actions may be standard practices at the capitol, backdoor politics and convoluted deal-making are counter to the way we do business and lead our lives.

I sincerely apologize for my lack of direct engagement in IFMAs governance and subsequent actions, as well as the abandonment gun owners are feeling.

If you have any questions regarding, or need more information about, this statement or RRAs position, please contact: Sarah Larson, RRA General Manager at 309-792-5780.

Thank you,
Chuck Larson
President/Owner
Rock River Arms, Inc.

Originally Posted By dcm223:
Originally Posted By InterestedBystander:
New RRA statement on IFMA

https://www.rockriverarms.com/images/pdfs/RRA_Stmt217.pdf

For immediate release: May 2, 2017

After further review, Rock River Arms, Inc.® (RRA) is immediately severing all ties with the Illinois Firearms Manufacturers Association (IFMA). We feel that IFMAs integrity is compromised and we will notbe a part of the organization. We trusted that contributions and resources provided to IFMA by RRA were
being used to promote and uphold our 2nd Amendment values. IFMAs actions have destroyed that trust.

For more than twenty years, RRA has actively opposed gun control legislation at the local, state, and federal levels. We have supported and provided monetary and product donations to multiple pro-gun organizations including NRA, NSSF, ISRA and countless others. We have attended rallies and spoken at educational events on behalf of gun owners rights. Our employees have collected signatures, written letters and e-mails, called legislators offices, as well as attended events, meetings and hearings in
Springfield, Illinois.

What we learned, however, was that we are better at manufacturing firearms and accessories than playing political games at the state capitol. So, we began to utilize the services of lobbyists, first through other organizations and then in 2009, we partnered with several other manufacturers to form IFMA.

Prior to our further review, we believed that the organization had accurately represented us. We feel that IFMAs actions have compromised its integrity. While their actions may be standard practices at the capitol, backdoor politics and convoluted deal-making are counter to the way we do business and lead
our lives.

I sincerely apologize for my lack of direct engagement in IFMAs governance and subsequent actions, as well as the abandonment gun owners are feeling.

If you have any questions regarding, or need more information about, this statement or RRAs position, please contact: Sarah Larson, RRA General Manager at 309-792-5780.

Thank you,
Chuck Larson
President/Owner
Rock River Arms, Inc.

Severing all ties with the IFMA? What a fucking joke.

RRA & Springfield ARE the IFMA.
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/IFMA-Form-990-2012.pdf

ILLINOIS FIREARMS MANUFACTURERS ASSOCIATION
Form 990EZ, Part IV - List of Officers, Directors, Trustees, and Key Employees

DENNIS REESE (SA)
TOM REESE (SA)
JAY KELLER (their lobbyist)
MARK LARSON (RRA)
CHUCK LARSON (RRA)

RRA and SA through IFMA have also donated tens of thousands of dollars to Illinois anti-gun politicians over the last several years.
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/05/john-boch/springfield-armory-rock-river-arms-made-campaign-contributions-to-anti-gun-rights-politicians/

Originally Posted By bigbryce31186:
http://blog.springfield-armory.com/springfield-armory-statement-regarding-gun-dealer-licensing-act-sb1657-0

The new statement

Originally Posted By Ken914:
Did we know that Dennis Reece was involved in a bribery scandal in 1989?

Prosecutors cleared the way for the indictment last month when Dennis Reese, president of Springfield Armory Inc. of Geneseo, Ill., who
alleged arranged the payoffs, pleaded guilty to lesser charges and
agreed to cooperate with investigators.
Army colonel indicted on bribery charges

Originally Posted By America-first:
And it keeps looking worse:



"The fallout from Springfield Armory and Rock River Arms funneling campaign contributions to some of Illinois’ most anti-gun rights pols through the Illinois FirearmsManufacturer’s Association has evoked strong feelings from many. Some, like Arie Friedman feel deep betrayal.

If you’re not familiar with him, Mr. Friedman challenged the city of Highland Park’s scary black gun ban as a plaintiff in the lawsuit Friedman v. Highland Park. The Supreme Court did not grant certiori to his appeal, so his case died and Highland Park’sgun ban remains in place. For now.

In addition to his landmark civil rights case, Mr. Friedman ran for an Illinois state Senate seat. He says his opponent got a large cash infusion from Senate President John Cullerton’s campaign war chest. Now Mr. Friedman sees that some of that money might have come from Springfield Armory, a company that he supported and purchased gunsfrom.

Imagine learning that you’ve un-knowingly funded your own political opponent through your gun purchases. No wonder Mr. Freidman feels betrayed. As Springfieldand Rock River are learning, decisions as to which candidates you support have real world consequences."


READ MORE.





http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/05/john-boch/arie-friedman-friedman-v-highland-park-wants-apology-springfield/w



Originally Posted By InterestedBystander:
Originally Posted By sasquatch98:


That's better although I still haven't seen anything from Springfield.

http://blog.springfield-armory.com/springfield-armory-statement-regarding-gun-dealer-licensing-act-sb1657-0

...The Executive Director of the Illinois Firearm Manufacturers Association (IFMA) acted without our prior knowledge and against our principles and those of the industry as a whole with respect to the Gun Dealer Licensing Act. We no longer have confidence in IFMA and after speaking to other directors we have made the decision to sever all ties with the organization, effective immediately....

Originally Posted By BudMan52:
Here is the "527" info on IFMA:

IRS 527 "Illinois Firearms Manufacturers Association"
Link Posted: 4/28/2017 5:58:59 AM EDT
Time to boycott Springfield Armory and Rock River Arms like we did S&W?
Link Posted: 4/28/2017 5:59:00 AM EDT
That might leave a mark. 
Link Posted: 4/28/2017 6:03:42 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By mattja:
Time to boycott Springfield Armory and Rock River Arms like we did S&W?
View Quote
Yup.
Link Posted: 4/28/2017 6:08:38 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By mattja:
Time to boycott Springfield Armory and Rock River Arms like we did S&W?
View Quote
I already started, I own neither and its good to see that Armalite isn't helping them out with this horse shit!
Link Posted: 4/28/2017 6:12:50 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Ghostface:
I already started, I own neither and its good to see that Armalite isn't helping them out with this horse shit!
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Ghostface:
Originally Posted By mattja:
Time to boycott Springfield Armory and Rock River Arms like we did S&W?
I already started, I own neither and its good to see that Armalite isn't helping them out with this horse shit!
Good for Armalite. True patriots.

But Springfield Armory and Rock River Arms? Shameful.
Link Posted: 4/28/2017 6:15:42 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/28/2017 6:16:51 AM EDT
Prediction: This latest "reasonable and sensible gun control measure" will have absolutely no effect on the murder rate in Shitcago whatsoever.
Link Posted: 4/28/2017 6:17:24 AM EDT
I own a Springfield "Loaded" M1A and "Loaded" 1911. I guess that means "Loaded" with MIM parts.

I'm not selling them, but I'm not buying anything new from them until they unfuck themselves and pull their heads out of their asses.

How can they be so stupid?

I can see RRA maybe not having the money to fight back, but Springfield? With all those XD's they're selling for $500 that sold for $300 before they renamed them XD, they can afford to fight this BS.

But they cave? Worse, they make a deal? Do they not remember what happened to S&W?
Link Posted: 4/28/2017 6:19:15 AM EDT
BTW, this is WORSE than California's one-handgun-a-month law.

This is nine-guns-a-year, including rifles and shotguns?
Link Posted: 4/28/2017 6:19:38 AM EDT
Well......I know what two manufactures will get no business from me or my family ever again
Link Posted: 4/28/2017 6:22:10 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 6winchester2:
Prediction: This latest "reasonable and sensible gun control measure" will have absolutely no effect on the murder rate in Shitcago whatsoever.
View Quote
How many bangers get their guns via straw purchases?

I'm thinking that is not the primary source.
Link Posted: 4/28/2017 6:24:15 AM EDT
Went to Springfield once to have my 1911 fixed. They fixed one thing on it but it still didn't run right, and were rather rude when I came in. 
Link Posted: 4/28/2017 6:24:54 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By mattja:
How many bangers get their guns via straw purchases?

I'm thinking that is not the primary source.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By mattja:
Originally Posted By 6winchester2:
Prediction: This latest "reasonable and sensible gun control measure" will have absolutely no effect on the murder rate in Shitcago whatsoever.
How many bangers get their guns via straw purchases?

I'm thinking that is not the primary source.
Yeah, that's kind of why I said "it will have absolutely no effect on the murder rate whatsoever."

Pols in Shitcago will just continue to blame Indiana and other nearby states that "don't have tough enough gun laws!"

Link Posted: 4/28/2017 6:25:14 AM EDT
Does this bill kill private party sales as well?

It's looks like it will.
Link Posted: 4/28/2017 6:26:23 AM EDT
Meh,
Business is business....
Link Posted: 4/28/2017 6:27:35 AM EDT


Those companys will be loved tenderly.
Link Posted: 4/28/2017 6:28:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/28/2017 6:30:31 AM EDT by VA-BlkRifle]
IT'S ILLINOIS THOSE LAST TWO GUYS WERE WAITING TO HAVE THEIR PALM GREASED.

it's like a mexican speeding ticket, pay on the spot. Dumbasses.

AND of course, one of the two AR-15's I decided not to part with, has a custom Duracoat job on the lower, and says Rock River Arms.

might as well keep it now, it's WORTHLESS!
Link Posted: 4/28/2017 6:31:36 AM EDT
Hey, check it out guys! There's a new Springfield XD-E!

And I give zero fucks about it - imagine that!



Link Posted: 4/28/2017 6:35:59 AM EDT
I just submitted my Gear Up Claim last night for the 1911 I bought in March.

There was a question on the form asking when I expected to make my next Springfield purchase. None of the options was (NEVER AGAIN)...I found that interesting.
Link Posted: 4/28/2017 6:38:03 AM EDT
Thats the dumbest thing I've read this morning
Link Posted: 4/28/2017 6:39:09 AM EDT
They made a deal with the devil. Never make a deal with the devil.
Link Posted: 4/28/2017 6:42:54 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bjb4242:
They made a deal with the devil. Never make a deal with the devil.
View Quote
Nahh, brah, they just sucked some politician's dicks in IL.
Link Posted: 4/28/2017 7:04:10 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By flynhghr2001:
Well......I know what two manufactures will get no business from me or my family ever again
View Quote
Link Posted: 4/28/2017 7:06:44 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By tc556guy:
Thats the dumbest thing I've read this morning
View Quote
You been through all of page 1 yet on GD?
Link Posted: 4/28/2017 7:08:50 AM EDT
Troubling, but I'm going to need another source other than The Truth About Guns blog.
Link Posted: 4/28/2017 7:10:16 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Chris_C:

You been through all of page 1 yet on GD?
View Quote
Give me some time, I'm pacing myself lest the sheer wall of stupidity overwhelm me this early in the day
Link Posted: 4/28/2017 7:11:25 AM EDT
These dumb asses should have simply packed up the machinery and left beyond the state lines.

Save on taxes and ass ache at the same time. Remington all but left NY (over taxes and labor expenses).
Link Posted: 4/28/2017 7:13:40 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 6winchester2:
Prediction: This latest "reasonable and sensible gun control measure" will have absolutely no effect on the murder rate in Shitcago whatsoever.
View Quote
I predict the murder rate in Chicago will continue to climb because of victim-disarmament laws like this.
Link Posted: 4/28/2017 7:21:38 AM EDT
Originally Posted By stascom:
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/04/john-boch/springfield-armory-rock-river-arms-trade-opposition-to-illinois-ffl-licensing-scheme-for-carve-out/

Earlier today, the Illinois State Senate passed bill SB-1657 by a one-vote margin. While its prospects are still unsure in the House, if signed by Governor Bruce Rauner, the new law will mandate state licensing for all Illinois gun dealers. It will also restrict all others in Illinois to nine firearm transfers per year.

The lobbyist for the Illinois Firearms Manufacturers Association (IFMA), Jay Keller, traded that group’s opposition to the bill in exchange for a carve-out, removing Prairie State firearms manufacturers from the licensing requirements.

Two companies provide the bulk of the funding for IFMA: Springfield Armory and Rock River Arms.
View Quote


Well.

Looks like "Springfield or LRB" on my eventual M14 build has been decided.
Link Posted: 4/28/2017 7:22:35 AM EDT
Does this hurt RRA standing as an industry partner on this board? Will they have a come to Jesus moment after a Team Wendy moment?
Link Posted: 4/28/2017 7:35:32 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By mattja:
Time to boycott Springfield Armory and Rock River Arms like we did S&W?
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Certainly reminds me of the S&W sell-out. We need to make them pay for this as an example to anyone else in the industry.

Armalite > RRA
Link Posted: 4/28/2017 7:52:40 AM EDT
Honestly, i would have never bought an RRA since their handguards look like they were designed in the 1980s but was considering a TRP. Now i think i will go with a Dan Wesson 1911.

Did RRA and Springfield not learn anything from Ruger and S&W? Idiots.
Link Posted: 4/28/2017 7:57:48 AM EDT
Fuck em if true.

Fuck em to death
Link Posted: 4/28/2017 7:58:29 AM EDT
FRRA, FSA
Link Posted: 4/28/2017 8:02:14 AM EDT
Well, I'm done with springfield. Which is ok, the only gun they have that is worth a crap is the M1A
Link Posted: 4/28/2017 8:03:49 AM EDT
I guess we hate RRA and Springfield now.
Link Posted: 4/28/2017 8:03:51 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By heavy260:
Does this hurt RRA standing as an industry partner on this board? Will they have a come to Jesus moment after a Team Wendy moment?
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Troy is still here.  That should answer your question.
Link Posted: 4/28/2017 8:04:20 AM EDT
I'm buying a pistol in 2 weeks, and the EMP was on my short list. Not anymore.
Link Posted: 4/28/2017 8:06:05 AM EDT
I've got a RRA Varmiter. I will keep it but will purchase nothing else from them if this is true.
Link Posted: 4/28/2017 8:08:51 AM EDT
TTAG posted Springfield's CEO's response to their article, which is bullshit:

In response to a request for comment on the deal, Springfield Armory CEO Dennis Reese gave TTAG the following statement:“The legislative process is a fluid process. The bill has only moved through one chamber, and it is still in the process. We fully support the Second Amendment and stand by it. The Illinois Manufacturers Association will continue to fight and protect not only manufacturers, but dealers and the gun owner as well.”
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I say this as an owner of a half dozen Springfield firearms.
Link Posted: 4/28/2017 8:28:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/28/2017 8:28:44 AM EDT by Will]
Originally Posted By stascom:
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/04/john-boch/springfield-armory-rock-river-arms-trade-opposition-to-illinois-ffl-licensing-scheme-for-carve-out/

Earlier today, the Illinois State Senate passed bill SB-1657 by a one-vote margin. While its prospects are still unsure in the House, if signed by Governor Bruce Rauner, the new law will mandate state licensing for all Illinois gun dealers. It will also restrict all others in Illinois to nine firearm transfers per year.

The lobbyist for the Illinois Firearms Manufacturers Association (IFMA), Jay Keller, traded that group’s opposition to the bill in exchange for a carve-out, removing Prairie State firearms manufacturers from the licensing requirements.

Two companies provide the bulk of the funding for IFMA: Springfield Armory and Rock River Arms.
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Why the fuck they don't just move I'll never understand. Magpul and PTR both did. Hell, even Remington/Cerberus got the fuck out of the Northeast.
Link Posted: 4/28/2017 8:38:41 AM EDT
I have always like Springfield and RRA.
Link Posted: 4/28/2017 9:05:49 AM EDT
I guess LRB is getting my business now.
Link Posted: 4/28/2017 9:12:07 AM EDT
I have already written springfield.  I will not buy anymore of their products until this gets rectified.  I only own a couple RRA triggers but no more. 
Link Posted: 4/28/2017 9:17:11 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By mattja:
Time to boycott Springfield Armory and Rock River Arms like we did S&W?
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This bill could actually die in the IL house. This might be one of those wink and a nod type things. It only passed by one vote.

If we are going to boycott them, let's wait and see if it actually becomes law. If it does, fuck them, don't even wash your car with a SA or RRA t-shirt.
Link Posted: 4/28/2017 9:18:19 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By LightningII:
I guess we hate RRA and Springfield now.
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We've always hated Springfield and RRA.
Link Posted: 4/28/2017 9:28:05 AM EDT
Les Baer moved to Iowa a couple of years ago to get away from this nonsense.  I think I need another Premier II instead of a TRP.  
Link Posted: 4/28/2017 9:39:07 AM EDT
Magpul press release from Jan 2014

The company began a nationwide search for a new base of operations after legislation was enacted in Colorado that dramatically limits the sale of firearms accessories – the core of Magpul’s business. Magpul plans on initially transitioning 92% of its current workforce outside of Colorado within 12-16 months and will maintain only limited operations in Colorado. "Moving operations to states that support our culture of individual liberties and personal responsibility is important,” says Richard Fitzpatrick, Chief Executive Officer for Magpul Industries. “This relocation will also improve business operations and logistics as we utilize the strengths of Texas and Wyoming in our expansion.”

link



Of course I realize that Springfield and RRA have large facilities that would be significant to even consider moving. But you have to wonder if either one looked at options, or they just went directly to the lobbyists.
Link Posted: 4/28/2017 9:41:02 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 338winmag:


This bill could actually die in the IL house. This might be one of those wink and a nod type things. It only passed by one vote.

If we are going to boycott them, let's wait and see if it actually becomes law. If it does, fuck them, don't even wash your car with a SA or RRA t-shirt.
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If they are willing to support it NOW before it passes, then what is the difference if it doesn't pass. The intent and willingness to capitulate is present.
Link Posted: 4/28/2017 9:44:00 AM EDT
Motherfuckers
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