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Posted: 4/29/2015 12:33:35 PM EDT
Really neat but short article with some photos.  I had no idea they made a 500rd backpack ammo feed for the M60

Edit:  Apparently the Gyrojet was used in combat. Go figure

http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2015/4/3/behind-enemy-lines-weapons-of-vietnams-covert-warriors/

Link Posted: 4/29/2015 12:43:42 PM EDT
[#1]

Quoted:


Really neat but short article with some photos.  I had no idea they made a 500rd backpack ammo feed for the M60



Edit:  Apparently the Gyrojet was used in combat. Go figure



http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2015/4/3/behind-enemy-lines-weapons-of-vietnams-covert-warriors/



http://www.americanrifleman.org/media/1533226/sog_7.jpg?width=289.4736842105263&height=500
View Quote




 
SOG had the most expansive weapons library ever assembled at that point in history. And yes, the Gyrojet saw limited use in combat but it was extremely unpredictable. Think MoH recipient Doug Miller used one a few times in Laos.
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 12:46:38 PM EDT
[#2]
This one is always trippy.

Link Posted: 4/29/2015 12:48:53 PM EDT
[#4]
Always liked the chopped RPD.


A SAW before the SAW.
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 12:54:06 PM EDT
[#5]
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Full of win
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 12:54:18 PM EDT
[#6]
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that is a cool chopper!

RPD is a great gun. suppresses real nice, too!
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 12:55:31 PM EDT
[#7]
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Quoted:
This one is always trippy.

http://i43.tinypic.com/33z42dc.jpg
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Does anyone know the results of the US Navy SEALs T&E use of the 5.56 HK?

Was curious why it was not adopted....
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 12:56:08 PM EDT
[#8]
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Full of win
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Full of win


Ray-Bans on and everything.
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 12:56:32 PM EDT
[#9]
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Quoted:


Does anyone know the results of the US Navy SEALs T&E use of the 5.56 HK?

Was curious why it was not adopted....
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Quoted:
Quoted:
This one is always trippy.

http://i43.tinypic.com/33z42dc.jpg


Does anyone know the results of the US Navy SEALs T&E use of the 5.56 HK?

Was curious why it was not adopted....


That's a H&R T223.
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 12:56:58 PM EDT
[#10]

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This one is always trippy.



http://i43.tinypic.com/33z42dc.jpg
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Link Posted: 4/29/2015 12:58:12 PM EDT
[#11]
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There's one in the article, too.

Gotta' love the little mini grenades.
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 1:00:56 PM EDT
[#12]

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Very cool to see.

Link Posted: 4/29/2015 1:01:06 PM EDT
[#13]
http://chiefmcclane.tumblr.com/post/75103472145/gunrunnerhell-hunting-club-two-u-s-soldiers-in

Link Posted: 4/29/2015 1:08:42 PM EDT
[#14]
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Quoted:


Does anyone know the results of the US Navy SEALs T&E use of the 5.56 HK?

Was curious why it was not adopted....
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Quoted:
Quoted:
This one is always trippy.

http://i43.tinypic.com/33z42dc.jpg


Does anyone know the results of the US Navy SEALs T&E use of the 5.56 HK?

Was curious why it was not adopted....


"Choices of weapons was left as much as possible up to the tastes of the individual SEAL. The squad had to carry a balance of firepower, but that wasn't any problem to accomplish. For myself, I had taken a liking to the Harrington & Richardson T223 rifle. The H&R T223 was an imported version of the German Heckler & Koch HK33. The weapon had been available for a few years, and the Team was evaluating it in combat.
We had a lot of experimental weapons at the Team, and when I went over it was suggested that I take the T223 over and see what I thought about it. Though the weapon is slightly heavier than an M16, it fires the same ammunition, so ammo supply wouldn't be a problem. The Team had been using the AR-15/M16 rifles since its first days, but we only had the twenty-round magazines. There were some thirty-round magazines around, but they were few in number and hard to come by. One thing that immediately made the T223 appeal to me was the fact that it come with forty-round magazines.
I liked the weapon. It was a lot easier to clean and maintain than the M16 and worked well in the jungle environment. While the other men of the platoon would be just starting to clean their weapons after an op, I would already be done and moving on to something else. The T223 (HK33) was good but it was a foreign (German) weapon and suffered from the 'not made here'
References:
Dockery, Kevin. WEAPONS OF THE NAVY SEALS. Berkley Books. N.Y., N.Y. 2004.
Fawcett, Bill, Ed. HUNTERS & SHOOTERS. AN ORAL HISTORY OF THE U.S. NAVY SEALs IN VIETNAM. Avon Books. N.Y., N.Y. 1995.
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 1:09:55 PM EDT
[#15]

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Frank Greco, RT Colorado !-2, circa late 1969 out on the firing range south of CCC.
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 1:14:39 PM EDT
[#16]
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  Frank Greco, RT Colorado !-2, circa late 1969 out on the firing range south of CCC.
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Quoted:

  Frank Greco, RT Colorado !-2, circa late 1969 out on the firing range south of CCC.

Was there any reason they didn't put flash suppressors on the chopped RPD?

Link Posted: 4/29/2015 1:18:06 PM EDT
[#17]
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Was there any reason they didn't put flash suppressors on the chopped RPD?

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On a barrel that short it probably wouldn't have done a damn bit of good.
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 1:20:23 PM EDT
[#18]
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Quoted:

Was there any reason they didn't put flash suppressors on the chopped RPD?

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Quoted:
Quoted:

  Frank Greco, RT Colorado !-2, circa late 1969 out on the firing range south of CCC.

Was there any reason they didn't put flash suppressors on the chopped RPD?


I think because they were such small teams that if they made contact they wanted to make as much noise and chaos as possible for a intimidation factor causing the enemy to think they ran into more people than they actually had.
ETA: Plaster comppained about a silenced weapon he had once because the lack of noise kept the enemy rushing in instead of hitting the dirt.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 1:21:13 PM EDT
[#19]










































3 of my personal favorites...







 
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 1:21:37 PM EDT
[#20]
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Quoted:



that is a cool chopper!

RPD is a great gun. suppresses real nice, too!
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Quoted:



that is a cool chopper!

RPD is a great gun. suppresses real nice, too!


Unless you are on the wrong end of 'em
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 1:21:53 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
Really neat but short article with some photos.  I had no idea they made a 500rd backpack ammo feed for the M60

Edit:  Apparently the Gyrojet was used in combat. Go figure

http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2015/4/3/behind-enemy-lines-weapons-of-vietnams-covert-warriors/

http://www.americanrifleman.org/media/1533226/sog_7.jpg?width=289.4736842105263&height=500
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One of the recent articles on Vietnam in AR had a picture of a barefoot Seal getting off a boat. Thought that was cool.
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 1:24:04 PM EDT
[#22]
Huh, the mini hand grenade was pretty cool...wonder what the effective range was?
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 1:28:57 PM EDT
[#23]
Some arms were old enough to be deniable, allowing World War II veterans to carry their favorite firearms. For instance, First Sergeant Lionel Pinn, a cigar-chompin’ World War II Ranger, proudly packed an M1A1 Thompson submachine gun.
Master Sergeant Charles “Pops” Humble, a veteran of the 1st Special Service Force, wanted a German Schmeisser; SOG got him one.
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That is so full of WIN!
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 1:39:59 PM EDT
[#24]
Good Article!
Link Posted: 6/24/2015 5:54:24 PM EDT
[#25]
Bump
Link Posted: 6/24/2015 5:55:51 PM EDT
[#26]
Cool stuff
Link Posted: 6/24/2015 6:09:52 PM EDT
[#27]
Yes, it is a good article.  I work with someone who did something similar.  He and his stories are amazing!
Link Posted: 6/24/2015 6:12:14 PM EDT
[#28]
Medal of Honor recipient Bob Howard, for example, sometimes toted a compact, selective-fire M14A1 rifle, its barrel and flash suppressor chopped by 8" and a handgrip installed below the forearm. In it, Howard fired 7.62 mm M198 duplex cartridges, each containing two stacked 84-gr. Spitzer bullets with respective muzzle velocities of 2700 and 2200 f.p.s.. In effect, this doubled his M14’s output to 40 rounds per magazine
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Wait, what?
Link Posted: 6/24/2015 6:16:03 PM EDT
[#29]
Duplex rounds in 7.62 were pretty popular while they were available.  Wore the barrels out quickly though.

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Link Posted: 6/24/2015 6:23:35 PM EDT
[#30]
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Quoted:

That is so full of WIN!
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Some arms were old enough to be deniable, allowing World War II veterans to carry their favorite firearms. For instance, First Sergeant Lionel Pinn, a cigar-chompin’ World War II Ranger, proudly packed an M1A1 Thompson submachine gun.
Master Sergeant Charles “Pops” Humble, a veteran of the 1st Special Service Force, wanted a German Schmeisser; SOG got him one.

That is so full of WIN!


That is probably the most kickass thing I have read all day.
Link Posted: 6/24/2015 6:24:15 PM EDT
[#31]
Interesting thanks.

Can somebody help me out with this

"Foreign arms figured in SOG’s night parachute infiltrations—the world’s first combat skydives."

Weren't combat skydives common place in WW2 for all kinds of units? I'm pretty sure there were special ops behind enemy lines deployed by parachute in WW2

Ready to be corrected.
Link Posted: 6/24/2015 6:27:50 PM EDT
[#32]
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Quoted:
Interesting thanks.

Can somebody help me out with this

"Foreign arms figured in SOG’s night parachute infiltrations—the world’s first combat skydives."

Weren't combat skydives common place in WW2 for all kinds of units? I'm pretty sure there were special ops behind enemy lines deployed by parachute in WW2

Ready to be corrected.
View Quote

Military Free Fall.

Previous combat jumps were all static line.
Link Posted: 6/24/2015 6:32:18 PM EDT
[#33]
The Wehrmacht also experimented with 7.92 duplex bullets for the STG44.

American trials with the duplex 7.62x51 were related to the SALVO project.
Link Posted: 6/24/2015 6:40:33 PM EDT
[#34]
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Quoted:

Military Free Fall.

Previous combat jumps were all static line.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Interesting thanks.

Can somebody help me out with this

"Foreign arms figured in SOG’s night parachute infiltrations—the world’s first combat skydives."

Weren't combat skydives common place in WW2 for all kinds of units? I'm pretty sure there were special ops behind enemy lines deployed by parachute in WW2

Ready to be corrected.

Military Free Fall.

Previous combat jumps were all static line.


Thank you.

Link Posted: 6/24/2015 6:40:43 PM EDT
[#35]


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Wait, what?
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Medal of Honor recipient Bob Howard, for example, sometimes toted a compact, selective-fire M14A1 rifle, its barrel and flash suppressor chopped by 8" and a handgrip installed below the forearm. In it, Howard fired 7.62 mm M198 duplex cartridges, each containing two stacked 84-gr. Spitzer bullets with respective muzzle velocities of 2700 and 2200 f.p.s.. In effect, this doubled his M14’s output to 40 rounds per magazine






Wait, what?
Where does someone find one of these











 
Link Posted: 6/24/2015 6:47:05 PM EDT
[#36]
Quoted:
Really neat but short article with some photos.  I had no idea they made a 500rd backpack ammo feed for the M60

Edit:  Apparently the Gyrojet was used in combat. Go figure

http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2015/4/3/behind-enemy-lines-weapons-of-vietnams-covert-warriors/

http://www.americanrifleman.org/media/1533226/sog_7.jpg?width=289.4736842105263&height=500
View Quote



Does that have a front sight?  I know VN SEAL that claimed to have done something similar.  He said they cut the front sight off as well as cutting other stuff to shave weight.
Link Posted: 6/24/2015 6:58:23 PM EDT
[#37]
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Robert Graham, leader of Recon Team Pick, carried into combat SOG’s most outlandish “silent” weapon. A native Canadian and bow hunter, Graham had a 55-lb. bow mailed from home with broadhead-tipped arrows, which he indeed let loose during a fight in Cambodia. No prisoner resulted, but it did yield one of SOG’s most unbelievable war stories.
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That is bad ass.
Link Posted: 6/24/2015 6:58:28 PM EDT
[#38]
If you look at what was commonly carried on an ODA in the 1950's, most guys carried an M1 or M2 Carbine, supported by BAR's and M1919's, maybe a few Garands.

The delayed production and weight of the M14, combined with the introduction of the AR15, made way for the cementing of the AR15 for a long time to come within the Army SF Regiment's ranks.
Link Posted: 6/24/2015 7:02:43 PM EDT
[#39]
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Quoted:
Medal of Honor recipient Bob Howard, for example, sometimes toted a compact, selective-fire M14A1 rifle, its barrel and flash suppressor chopped by 8" and a handgrip installed below the forearm. In it, Howard fired 7.62 mm M198 duplex cartridges, each containing two stacked 84-gr. Spitzer bullets with respective muzzle velocities of 2700 and 2200 f.p.s.. In effect, this doubled his M14’s output to 40 rounds per magazine


Wait, what?
Where does someone find one of these

http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv360/wolfganggross/cutaway18%2063012/cutaway1863012039.jpg
 


Dayummm!
Link Posted: 6/24/2015 8:00:46 PM EDT
[#40]
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Quoted:



Does that have a front sight?  I know VN SEAL that claimed to have done something similar.  He said they cut the front sight off as well as cutting other stuff to shave weight.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Really neat but short article with some photos.  I had no idea they made a 500rd backpack ammo feed for the M60

Edit:  Apparently the Gyrojet was used in combat. Go figure

http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2015/4/3/behind-enemy-lines-weapons-of-vietnams-covert-warriors/

http://www.americanrifleman.org/media/1533226/sog_7.jpg?width=289.4736842105263&height=500



Does that have a front sight?  I know VN SEAL that claimed to have done something similar.  He said they cut the front sight off as well as cutting other stuff to shave weight.


I'm not seeing one in the photo.  Beyond that, no idea I'm afraid.
Link Posted: 6/24/2015 8:06:24 PM EDT
[#41]
My FIL was a Ranger in Vietnam, his favorite weapon was the M14.
Link Posted: 6/24/2015 8:09:36 PM EDT
[#42]
Welcome to an on going thread. Glad you could join us......
Link Posted: 6/24/2015 8:11:41 PM EDT
[#43]
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Quoted:


I'm not seeing one in the photo.  Beyond that, no idea I'm afraid.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Really neat but short article with some photos.  I had no idea they made a 500rd backpack ammo feed for the M60

Edit:  Apparently the Gyrojet was used in combat. Go figure

http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2015/4/3/behind-enemy-lines-weapons-of-vietnams-covert-warriors/

http://www.americanrifleman.org/media/1533226/sog_7.jpg?width=289.4736842105263&height=500



Does that have a front sight?  I know VN SEAL that claimed to have done something similar.  He said they cut the front sight off as well as cutting other stuff to shave weight.


I'm not seeing one in the photo.  Beyond that, no idea I'm afraid.


I sent him the photo.
Link Posted: 6/24/2015 8:11:51 PM EDT
[#44]
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Quoted:



that is a cool chopper!

RPD is a great gun. suppresses real nice, too!
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Quoted:



that is a cool chopper!

RPD is a great gun. suppresses real nice, too!


That's the hawtest commie gun I've seen
Link Posted: 6/24/2015 8:13:59 PM EDT
[#45]

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Quoted:





I think because they were such small teams that if they made contact they wanted to make as much noise and chaos as possible for a intimidation factor causing the enemy to think they ran into more people than they actually had.

ETA: Plaster comppained about a silenced weapon he had once because the lack of noise kept the enemy rushing in instead of hitting the dirt.



Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
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Quoted:



Quoted:


Quoted:




  Frank Greco, RT Colorado !-2, circa late 1969 out on the firing range south of CCC.



Was there any reason they didn't put flash suppressors on the chopped RPD?





I think because they were such small teams that if they made contact they wanted to make as much noise and chaos as possible for a intimidation factor causing the enemy to think they ran into more people than they actually had.

ETA: Plaster comppained about a silenced weapon he had once because the lack of noise kept the enemy rushing in instead of hitting the dirt.



Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile




 
What sixnine said. And during that chaos and hesitation, the smaller SOG team could either shoot through and steamroll the NVA, or more than likely break contact and run like hell.
Link Posted: 6/24/2015 8:16:28 PM EDT
[#46]
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Quoted:


That's the hawtest commie gun I've seen
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Quoted:
Quoted:



that is a cool chopper!

RPD is a great gun. suppresses real nice, too!


That's the hawtest commie gun I've seen


Weren't those really common in the Bush/Rhodesian wars?
Link Posted: 6/24/2015 8:18:19 PM EDT
[#47]

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Wait, what?
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Medal of Honor recipient Bob Howard, for example, sometimes toted a compact, selective-fire M14A1 rifle, its barrel and flash suppressor chopped by 8" and a handgrip installed below the forearm. In it, Howard fired 7.62 mm M198 duplex cartridges, each containing two stacked 84-gr. Spitzer bullets with respective muzzle velocities of 2700 and 2200 f.p.s.. In effect, this doubled his M14’s output to 40 rounds per magazine




Wait, what?




 
The man himself, Bob Howard, playing with his favorite shorty M14 down at the CCC firing range.






Link Posted: 6/24/2015 8:25:29 PM EDT
[#48]
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Quoted:

  The man himself, Bob Howard, playing with his favorite shorty M14 down at the CCC firing range.


http://www.macvsog.cc/images/SgtRobertHoward.jpg

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Quoted:
Quoted:
Medal of Honor recipient Bob Howard, for example, sometimes toted a compact, selective-fire M14A1 rifle, its barrel and flash suppressor chopped by 8" and a handgrip installed below the forearm. In it, Howard fired 7.62 mm M198 duplex cartridges, each containing two stacked 84-gr. Spitzer bullets with respective muzzle velocities of 2700 and 2200 f.p.s.. In effect, this doubled his M14’s output to 40 rounds per magazine


Wait, what?

  The man himself, Bob Howard, playing with his favorite shorty M14 down at the CCC firing range.


http://www.macvsog.cc/images/SgtRobertHoward.jpg



Even without knowing who he was, I'd say guy looked pretty badass.  Bio copypasted from wiki
This link has way more detail but I didn't want to copypaste for CoC


Howard enlisted in the Army at Montgomery, Alabama and retired as Colonel, Army Special Forces.
As a staff sergeant of the highly classified Military Assistance Command, Vietnam – Studies and Observations Group (MACV-SOG), Howard was recommended for the Medal of Honor on three separate occasions for three individual actions during thirteen months spanning 1967–1968. The first two nominations were downgraded to a Silver Star and the Distinguished Service Cross due to the covert nature of the operations in which Howard participated. As a Sergeant First Class of the same organization, he risked his life during a rescue mission in Cambodia on December 30, 1968, while second in command of a platoon-sized Hatchet Force that was searching for missing American soldier Robert Scherdin, and was finally awarded the Medal of Honor. He learned of the award over a two-way radio while under enemy fire, immediately after being wounded, resulting in one of his eight Purple Hearts.[1]

Howard was wounded 14 times during one 54-month period during the Vietnam War. He received two Master's degrees during his government career which spanned almost 50 years. Howard retired as a Colonel in 1992.[2] His Army career spanned 1956 to 1992.[3]
According to NBC News, Howard may have been the most highly decorated American soldier since World War II. His residence was in Texas and he spent much of his free time working with veterans until the time of his death. He also took periodic trips to Iraq to visit active duty troops.[2]
Howard died of pancreatic cancer at a hospice in Waco, Texas on December 23, 2009. He was survived by four children and four grandchildren.[3][4] His funeral was in Arlington National Cemetery on February 22, 2010. [5]

The President of the United States in the name of The Congress takes pride in presenting the MEDAL OF HONOR to
FIRST LIEUTENANT
ROBERT L. HOWARD
UNITED STATES ARMY


for service as set forth in the following CITATION:
For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity in action at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty. 1st Lt. Howard (then SFC .), distinguished himself while serving as platoon sergeant of an American-Vietnamese platoon which was on a mission to rescue a missing American soldier in enemy controlled territory in the Republic of Vietnam. The platoon had left its helicopter landing zone and was moving out on its mission when it was attacked by an estimated 2-company force. During the initial engagement, 1st Lt. Howard was wounded and his weapon destroyed by a grenade explosion. 1st Lt. Howard saw his platoon leader had been wounded seriously and was exposed to fire. Although unable to walk, and weaponless, 1st Lt. Howard unhesitatingly crawled through a hail of fire to retrieve his wounded leader. As 1st Lt. Howard was administering first aid and removing the officer's equipment, an enemy bullet struck 1 of the ammunition pouches on the lieutenant's belt, detonating several magazines of ammunition. 1st Lt. Howard momentarily sought cover and then realizing that he must rejoin the platoon, which had been disorganized by the enemy attack, he again began dragging the seriously wounded officer toward the platoon area. Through his outstanding example of indomitable courage and bravery, 1st Lt. Howard was able to rally the platoon into an organized defense force. With complete disregard for his safety, 1st Lt. Howard crawled from position to position, administering first aid to the wounded, giving encouragement to the defenders and directing their fire on the encircling enemy. For 31/2 hours 1st Lt. Howard's small force and supporting aircraft successfully repulsed enemy attacks and finally were in sufficient control to permit the landing of rescue helicopters. 1st Lt. Howard personally supervised the loading of his men and did not leave the bullet-swept landing zone until all were aboard safely. 1st Lt. Howard's gallantry in action, his complete devotion to the welfare of his men at the risk of his life were in keeping with the highest traditions of the military service and reflect great credit on himself, his unit, and the U.S. Army.
Link Posted: 6/24/2015 8:27:47 PM EDT
[#49]
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Quoted:

  SOG had the most expansive weapons library ever assembled at that point in history. And yes, the Gyrojet saw limited use in combat but it was extremely unpredictable. Think MoH recipient Doug Miller used one a few times in Laos.
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Quoted:
Really neat but short article with some photos.  I had no idea they made a 500rd backpack ammo feed for the M60

Edit:  Apparently the Gyrojet was used in combat. Go figure

http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2015/4/3/behind-enemy-lines-weapons-of-vietnams-covert-warriors/

http://www.americanrifleman.org/media/1533226/sog_7.jpg?width=289.4736842105263&height=500

  SOG had the most expansive weapons library ever assembled at that point in history. And yes, the Gyrojet saw limited use in combat but it was extremely unpredictable. Think MoH recipient Doug Miller used one a few times in Laos.


Oh how the hell would you know! I do recall reading (in one of plaster's books I believe) about at least one instance of a Gyrojet being carried in the field, and an account of it being test fired prior. Apparently it was a nasty piece of work when it came to penetration, but not particularly accurate as I recall. Even with access to the best weapons and gear, I'm still amazed at what you guys were able to accomplish. Much respect to you all.

ETA: Weren't you working on a book?
Link Posted: 6/24/2015 8:32:04 PM EDT
[#50]
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My FIL was a Ranger in Vietnam, his favorite weapon was the M14.
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If by "Ranger", you mean LRRP, keep in mind that most LRRP units carried M16's and XM177's.  Last thing you want to be is out on a patrol behind enemy lines with an M14 and its limited load of ammo.
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