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Posted: 10/3/2004 10:58:24 AM EST
There is information available about US recce flights into Soviet airspace, but not much about Soviet recce coming into US airspace. Anyone know where to find this information? I'm curious.
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 11:09:36 AM EST
They did it all the time in the 80's. I was talking to some USAF intelligence peeps at a bar, they said sometimes the Soviet tailgunners would fire on our F-15's.

It was mostly Tu-95 Bear bombers coming over the ice cap, intercepted by F-15's out of Eilson AFB and Elmendorf AFB. Do searches along those lines. I dont know what the unit names are.
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 11:11:18 AM EST
What about actual flights over the mainland?
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 11:12:35 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/3/2004 11:28:42 AM EST by Fly-Navy]

Originally Posted By raven:
They did it all the time in the 80's. I was talking to some USAF intelligence peeps at a bar, they said sometimes the Soviet tailgunners would fire on our F-15's.



That sounds like an act of war to me.

Editting my post to say: Nevermind, I know that the USSR shot down some of our recce flights, so a tailgunner taking some pot-shots is actually believable.
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 11:15:39 AM EST

Originally Posted By Fly-Navy:

Originally Posted By raven:
They did it all the time in the 80's. I was talking to some USAF intelligence peeps at a bar, they said sometimes the Soviet tailgunners would fire on our F-15's.



That sounds like an act of war to me.



They might have been pulling my leg.
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 11:15:43 AM EST

Originally Posted By Jason280:
What about actual flights over the mainland?



Negative. Didn't have the ability to sneak in before we spotted them, and they didn't have carriers that could do it from the sea. Castro and the rest o the Southern Democrats knew better than to allow flights like that from their bases.
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 11:16:09 AM EST

Originally Posted By Fly-Navy:

Originally Posted By raven:
They did it all the time in the 80's. I was talking to some USAF intelligence peeps at a bar, they said sometimes the Soviet tailgunners would fire on our F-15's.



That sounds like an act of war to me.



Both sides used to "push the envelope" from time to time...stuff that the public never heard about...both sides kept it classified to avoid escalation...
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 11:16:26 AM EST
RB-47s used to fly over USSR airspace during the mid 50's and their tailguns
fired on their intercepting MiGs as well.
This stuff has been going on on both sides for 50 years.
Nothing new here.
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 11:18:12 AM EST

Originally Posted By Fly-Navy:

Originally Posted By raven:
They did it all the time in the 80's. I was talking to some USAF intelligence peeps at a bar, they said sometimes the Soviet tailgunners would fire on our F-15's.



That sounds like an act of war to me.



The stories from the Silent Service are even scarier....

I saw some photos once that would curl your nose hairs, let me tell you!
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 11:23:45 AM EST

Originally Posted By Fly-Navy:


That sounds like an act of war to me.



I know a guy who was on a destroyer during the Korean war. They were on some sort of picket and were told to sink every ship coming out of China. So, things happen that the public doesn't know about.
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 11:28:28 AM EST
" Penetration"
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 11:37:12 AM EST
We used to fly these things over the USSR. They were launched from B-52s. One crashed and was reverse engineered by the Soviets. They flew their reverse-engineered versions over the US, launched from Tu95s.
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 11:47:54 AM EST

Originally Posted By DnPRK:
We used to fly these things over the USSR. They were launched from B-52s. One crashed and was reverse engineered by the Soviets. They flew their reverse-engineered versions over the US, launched from Tu95s.
www.danshistory.com/d21drone.jpg




Ramjet? How do you recover the film?
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 3:37:52 PM EST

Originally Posted By Fly-Navy:
There is information available about US recce flights into Soviet airspace, but not much about Soviet recce coming into US airspace. Anyone know where to find this information? I'm curious.



Open Skies.
Was almost a reality until Gary Powers was shot down over the USSR in his U2.
I don't think it ever came to fruition, though.
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 3:49:18 PM EST

Originally Posted By Mach1:

Originally Posted By DnPRK:
We used to fly these things over the USSR. They were launched from B-52s. One crashed and was reverse engineered by the Soviets. They flew their reverse-engineered versions over the US, launched from Tu95s.
www.danshistory.com/d21drone.jpg




Ramjet? How do you recover the film?



Cameras get caught by a C-130.

www.wvi.com/~sr71webmaster/d21~1.htm

We flew them over China, not Russia according to what I've read.
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 3:50:27 PM EST

Originally Posted By DnPRK:
We used to fly these things over the USSR. They were launched from B-52s. One crashed and was reverse engineered by the Soviets. They flew their reverse-engineered versions over the US, launched from Tu95s.
www.danshistory.com/d21drone.jpg



Aren't those the things that some of the SR71's used to have on their backs?
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 3:51:40 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/3/2004 3:52:33 PM EST by Stryfe]
My question was answered above.
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 4:04:51 PM EST
The US and Ruskies fucked with each other mercilessly during the cold war. Subs banging into each other, probing each others air space, chasing trawlers around etc.
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 4:15:50 PM EST

Originally Posted By PONY_DRIVER:
The US and Ruskies fucked with each other mercilessly during the cold war. Subs banging into each other, probing each others air space, chasing trawlers around etc.



Yeah, the good ol' days.
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 4:21:47 PM EST

Originally Posted By dport:

Originally Posted By PONY_DRIVER:
The US and Ruskies fucked with each other mercilessly during the cold war. Subs banging into each other, probing each others air space, chasing trawlers around etc.



Yeah, the good ol' days.



Yea, when we knew who the enemy was.
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 4:27:52 PM EST

Originally Posted By sterling18:

Originally Posted By dport:

Originally Posted By PONY_DRIVER:
The US and Ruskies fucked with each other mercilessly during the cold war. Subs banging into each other, probing each others air space, chasing trawlers around etc.



Yeah, the good ol' days.



Yea, when we knew who the enemy was.


And the two of us pissing around created the common enemy of today.
Brilliant.
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 4:29:52 PM EST
umm no ... the collapse of the roman empire created what we have to deal with today
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 4:44:40 PM EST

Originally Posted By Stryfe:
And the two of us pissing around created the common enemy of today.
Brilliant.



No, that problem started about 1,300 years ago...
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 4:59:42 PM EST
They were a worthy enemy. Drunk, but worthy.

GunLvr
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 5:37:44 PM EST
So much went on we will never know one percent of what was going on. I know this because of what we did on subs in the late 80's early 90's. I went on two northern runs...I'd tell ya but then I'd have to kill ya.
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 5:42:08 PM EST

Originally Posted By dport:

Originally Posted By PONY_DRIVER:
The US and Ruskies fucked with each other mercilessly during the cold war. Subs banging into each other, probing each others air space, chasing trawlers around etc.



Yeah, the good ol' days.



I missed the field stations. Growing up I just wanted to fight the cold war and kick some commie ass. I entered the service during peace time and was broken by the time the shooting rolled around. Hopefully as a civilian I will eventually land a job where Ican rein death and destruction down upon some deserving camel fucker.
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 5:44:18 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 5:51:59 PM EST

Originally Posted By ilike9s:
So much went on we will never know one percent of what was going on. I know this because of what we did on subs in the late 80's early 90's. I went on two northern runs...I'd tell ya but then I'd have to kill ya.


Fuckin' blue nose
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 5:55:15 PM EST
I love hearing tales about the LONG BEACH playing decoy and pissing the Ruskies off. And how the Ruskie frigates were better at keeping station than most US frigates. I understand they'd even understand what station you'd assign them over the tactical circuit.

Alas, I was born too late.
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 5:55:42 PM EST

Originally Posted By raven:


I was talking to some USAF intelligence peeps at a bar, they said sometimes the Soviet tailgunners would fire on our F-15's..




"Splash Bandit One"
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 6:03:39 PM EST
The soviet tailgunners fired at our f-15's?

Did they have anyidea what a well placed sidewinder would do to the crate they were flying?
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 6:33:54 PM EST
The spy satellites were a big problem (and sort of still are). If something was left out that the satellites could see, it must be moved, covered, or put into a hangar.
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 6:43:58 PM EST

Originally Posted By Fireguy3:
Did they have anyidea what a well placed sidewinder would do to the crate they were flying?



I love that movie.
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 6:51:18 PM EST
"By Dawns early light" good disaster/Nuclear war flick!
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 7:00:30 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/3/2004 7:02:32 PM EST by 71-Hour_Achmed]

Originally Posted By DarkKnight:

Originally Posted By DnPRK:
We used to fly these things over the USSR. They were launched from B-52s. One crashed and was reverse engineered by the Soviets. They flew their reverse-engineered versions over the US, launched from Tu95s.
www.danshistory.com/d21drone.jpg



Aren't those the things that some of the SR71's used to have on their backs?


Yes, or at least similar, and you can even see one up close at Boeing's Museum of Flight in Seattle, sitting on top of its SR-71. Tres' cool.
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 7:01:12 PM EST
I was on a couple of flights around the Puerto Rico area where we intercepted Bear D's flying to Cuba.

The first time was in 1987, as soon as we had it in sight they dropped down in altitude and changed heading. Range control asked if we could follow, but we were on the way back from a mission and didn't have enough fuel.

The second time was in 1989, almost the same area. This time they stayed on course. The Navagator has his camara and got all sorts of pictures. We were close enough to see the commies, we exchanged the finger and waves.

Range control asked us to follow them, about 10 minutes later a couple of F-14's showed up and we left.

Neither time did the Bear have any external ordnace hung on the wings.

The Nav had his film confiscated when we landed at Rosey Roads and never got it back.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 12:57:30 AM EST
Interesting thread!
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 1:37:12 AM EST
Although I was in the military a bit too late (95-99), I was stationed at Thule, Air base, Greenland for a stretch.

I was Security Forces (AF military police), and in our in-brief, we were given orders/procedures for Russin pilot defection. Apparantly, and I later saw some pics, as late as the early-mid 90's, russki pilots would decide they wanted to live in the home of the brave, and would fly over the North Pole, and set down on the Thule runway. Apparently that's how we've gotten several of the MIG's that the military uses occasionally for pilot training/combat maneuvers.

Not as exciting as some of the posts above, but I always found it interesting. (Oh, we also had standing orders that if polar bears entered the base, we were to shoot them on sight...had one Dane get mauled while I was up there) Cool assignment.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 1:38:24 AM EST
yes quite interesting

makes me want to start a war stories thread or just hijack this one ... you know what ever works
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 1:45:15 AM EST

Originally Posted By Master_of_Orion:
makes me want to start a war stories thread or just hijack this one ... you know what ever works



I'd love to see a war stories thread. I never saw shit for action - I always wormed my way out of Saudi duty, figured if we weren't at war, and were just guarding sand, I'd have a lot more fun chasing tail at the stateside bases. I really regret it now.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 1:49:51 AM EST

Originally Posted By PONY_DRIVER:
The US and Ruskies fucked with each other mercilessly during the cold war. Subs banging into each other, probing each others air space, chasing trawlers around etc.



They use to send their version of SF into Alaska for ???

They would find all kinds of misc Russian gear left behind on shore when I was up there. 70's
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 3:18:55 AM EST

Originally Posted By cyanide:

Originally Posted By PONY_DRIVER:
The US and Ruskies fucked with each other mercilessly during the cold war. Subs banging into each other, probing each others air space, chasing trawlers around etc.



They use to send their version of SF into Alaska for ???

They would find all kinds of misc Russian gear left behind on shore when I was up there. 70's




Read "Body of Secrets". It's not 100% accurate but here's the deal. The russians would set up listening statons on icebergs floating around in the Barents, as spring came and things melted they would extract the operators and leave the camp there. We did some crazy/spooky shit up there too...like parachuting people onto the abandoned iceberg stations to collect information/equipment before the bergs broke completely apart.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 3:34:12 AM EST
I heard sometimes their IL-62s would sometimes "get lost" and fly over our airbases.BTW,Someone told me at the AF meuseum at Wright-Patt that they tried to get a Tu-95 Bear,and that it was going to be parked opposite the B-52 in the new building.Guess they could'nt get one. Shame,as I would think the Russians aren't exactly preserving them now.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 4:44:58 AM EST
Aeroflot always took pictures and probably did electonic snooping while flying into DC and NYC.

GunLvr
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 4:52:12 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 4:59:08 AM EST

Originally Posted By SJSAMPLE:

Originally Posted By Fly-Navy:
There is information available about US recce flights into Soviet airspace, but not much about Soviet recce coming into US airspace. Anyone know where to find this information? I'm curious.



Open Skies.
Was almost a reality until Gary Powers was shot down over the USSR in his U2.
I don't think it ever came to fruition, though.



We have a open sky policy now with Russian, the Russians mostly don’t bother.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 1:25:19 PM EST

Originally Posted By Fly-Navy:
There is information available about US recce flights into Soviet airspace, but not much about Soviet recce coming into US airspace. Anyone know where to find this information? I'm curious.



Search under the "Open Skies" program. Routes have to be disclosed in advance. I'm not sure what level, if any, the classification is.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 1:35:01 PM EST
Check out this web site, is has good info on the first of those missions.
www.cia.gov/csi/studies/95unclass/Leary.html

Operation Coldfeet
The stage was now set for the first operational use of Skyhook. What became known as Operation Coldfeet began in May 1961, when a naval aircraft flying an aeromagnetic survey over the Arctic Ocean reported sighting an abandoned Soviet drift station. A few days later, the Soviets announced that had been forced to leave Station NP 9 when the ice runway used to supply it had cracked.

The prospect of examining an abandoned Soviet ice station attracted ONR's interest. The previous year, ONR had set an acoustical surveillance network on a US drift station used to monitor Soviet submarines. ONR assumed that the Soviets would have a similar system to keep track of American submarines as they transited the polar ice pack, but there was no direct evidence to support this. Also, ONR wanted to compare Soviet efforts on drift stations with US operations.

The problem was how to get to NP 9. It was far too deep into the ice pack to be reached by an icebreaker, and it was out of helicopter range. Fulton's Skyhook seemed to provide the answer. To Capt. John Cadwalader, who would command Operation Coldfeet, it looked like "a wonderful opportunity" to make use of the pickup system.(11)

Following a recommendation by Dr. Max Britton, head of the Arctic program in the Geography Branch of ONR, RAdm. L. D. Coates, Chief of Naval Research, authorized preliminary planning for the mission while he sought final approval from the Chief of Naval Operations. The mission was scheduled for September, a time of good weather and ample daylight. NP 9 would be within 600 miles of the US Air Force base at Thule, Greenland, the planned launching point for the operation.

ONR selected two highly qualified investigators for the ground assignment. Maj. James Smith, USAF, was an experienced paratrooper and Russian linguist who had served on US Drift Stations Alpha and Charlie. Lt. Leonard A. LeSchack, USNR, a former Antarctic geophysicist, had set up the surveillance system on T-3 in 1960. Although not jump qualified, he quickly went through the course at Lakehurst Naval Air Station. During the summer, the two men trained on the Fulton retrieval system, working in Maryland with an experienced P2V crew at the Naval Air Test Center, Patuxent River.

More at the CIA link above.



Originally Posted By PONY_DRIVER:
Read "Body of Secrets". It's not 100% accurate but here's the deal. The russians would set up listening statons on icebergs floating around in the Barents, as spring came and things melted they would extract the operators and leave the camp there. We did some crazy/spooky shit up there too...like parachuting people onto the abandoned iceberg stations to collect information/equipment before the bergs broke completely apart.

Link Posted: 10/15/2004 1:47:10 PM EST
I remember once in the 80's a Bear made the news. It was flying down to Cuba and
got intercepted. The tail gunner on the Bear broke loose his guns and trained them
on the intercepting aircraft. Didn't fire, though. Probably just some peasant
gunner who wanted a better look at the Americans.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 2:13:33 PM EST

Originally Posted By KA3B:
ONR selected two highly qualified investigators for the ground assignment. Maj. James Smith, USAF, was an experienced paratrooper and Russian linguist who had served on US Drift Stations Alpha and Charlie. Lt. Leonard A. LeSchack, USNR, a former Antarctic geophysicist, had set up the surveillance system on T-3 in 1960. Although not jump qualified, he quickly went through the course at Lakehurst Naval Air Station. During the summer, the two men trained on the Fulton retrieval system, working in Maryland with an experienced P2V crew at the Naval Air Test Center, Patuxent River.


That took balls.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 2:38:53 PM EST

Originally Posted By 71-Hour_Achmed:

Originally Posted By DarkKnight:

Originally Posted By DnPRK:
We used to fly these things over the USSR. They were launched from B-52s. One crashed and was reverse engineered by the Soviets. They flew their reverse-engineered versions over the US, launched from Tu95s.
www.danshistory.com/d21drone.jpg



Aren't those the things that some of the SR71's used to have on their backs?


Yes, or at least similar, and you can even see one up close at Boeing's Museum of Flight in Seattle, sitting on top of its SR-71. Tres' cool.



D-21 Drone on an M-21 variant of the A-12.
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