Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Durkin Tactical Franklin Armory
User Panel

Posted: 1/31/2001 3:03:14 PM EDT
same thing as M193?  I mean, does it pack the same ballistic characteristics?

Is it good stuff or is it bad?

From Aimsurplus.com

Why buy steel cased Russian Now?  1980's non-corr, surplus, made by PMP of South Africa, 55gr, FMJ, Brass cases, Berdan primed.  Pkd in sealed 300rd Battle Packs. $39.99
Link Posted: 1/31/2001 3:36:42 PM EDT
It's military ammo, so it's probably M193, but I don't know for sure.
Link Posted: 1/31/2001 3:38:32 PM EDT

Whats the difference between a cartridge being Berdan primed and/or having some sort of other primer.  Is it good or bad?

Is IMI M193 berdan primed?
Link Posted: 1/31/2001 3:48:41 PM EDT
SA PMP is great stuff- it's pretty much all I shoot lately. Accuracy is great for milsurp. AIMsurplus' prices are great, and so is the service. PMP 5.56 battle packs generally run around $50.00 each at local gun shows in MA, so, buy it from AIMSurplus- I think the shipping is incl. w/ the price, too.
Link Posted: 1/31/2001 4:31:15 PM EDT
Boxer primers are what US ammo typically uses.  These have the anvil integral to the primer and therefore use a central flash hole in the bottom of the cartride base.  Berdan primers have no anvil and use a conical protrusion built into the bottom of the cartride base with flash holes built into the sides of the protrusion. You can't use the typical US decapper setup and have to buy special hard-to-get and pricey primers.
Link Posted: 1/31/2001 4:38:13 PM EDT
PMP is great.  Its not coated and as far as I know its non-corrosive.  I've never had a hang fire, my OlyArms eats it all day.  I can't shoot 3 wolf rounds in a row because they are coated and the chamber is too tight, but I can shoot PMP all day.
Link Posted: 1/31/2001 5:05:15 PM EDT
Thanks guys I was wondering about it too.
Link Posted: 1/31/2001 7:34:52 PM EDT
http://www.sportsmansguide.com  has it for $37.97 a pack, got 2 packs delivered for $80.96
Link Posted: 1/31/2001 7:37:06 PM EDT
Aim Surplus also has this other PMP South African ammo for sale - it is still 55gr. .223, but it is boxer primed:

Made by PMP of South Africa

55grn, FMJ, Brass cased, Non-Corr, Boxer primed reloadable.  

500rds @ $65.00  1000rds @ $119.90ea  2000rds @ $115.00ea  

So what is this stuff compared to the battle packed stuff besides reloadable, boxer primed, and a little bit ($.003 per round) cheaper.  It also comes in boxes and not battle packs.  Is THIS the same as M193? ? ? ?   I'm soooooo confused.  
Link Posted: 1/31/2001 7:42:09 PM EDT
The PMP with the gazell on the box is good stuff, just a tad underloaded to be called mil speck.
Makes great practice ammo, what we all need, well most of us..
Link Posted: 1/31/2001 7:43:53 PM EDT
PMP has the comercial stuff in the 20 boxes, the DNL in the 30 round boxes marked .223, and the other marketed as mill-spec that is marked 5.56 also in 30 round boxes and comes in brown 300 round battle packs. This last one is the hottest loaded, and while I don't have a chronograph, others have stated it comes in at 3250 ft/sec. However, it is also not reloadable.
Link Posted: 1/31/2001 8:00:13 PM EDT

26 Posts

I picked up a 300 round battle pack of South African 55 gr. 5.56 at a show last weekend for $42. My M4gery was zeroed with Winchester Q3131A. The SA ammo had the same point of impact and seemed to have very similar recoil, etc. Has anyone heard or had any first-hand problems with this ammo? It's about 5 cents a round cheaper than the Winchester but don't want to use it if there is any risk to myself or M4.

Junior Member

4 Posts

That is about $7 or $8 cheaper than I've seen the SA battle packs here in Denver. I've shot 4 or 5 paks worth through my carbine and had no problems at all. Shoot 'em and enjoy 'em

79 Posts
Posted -
Those SA battle-packs from the 80s are loaded hotter than the current production stuff (both the Denel "military" and the PMP commercial). Of course, the brass is Berdan primed, so it isn't reloadable.


Junior Member

23 Posts
The SA battle packs that I have are from the 80's. I have gone through about 1000 rounds so far. Accuracy does not seem to be quite as good as Win Q3131, Q3131A or IMI. The primers are somewhat hard, but mil spec type triggers ignite them fine. The only problem I had was with a light two stage trigger. Muzzle flash is not too bad. It's decent blasting ammo that is priced slightly more than the Russian steel cased stuff and less than Q3131/IMI.

26 Posts
Thanks guys. There is another show this weekend and I think I'll buy another pack or 2 or 3 or...

Link Posted: 1/31/2001 8:24:12 PM EDT

The main thing to remember is this:

1. There are main different brands and bullet weight of ammo. Each one will usually have small differnt points of impact, which will necessitate adjustment of sights.

2. There are two different types of ignition (primer) systems, Berdaan and Boxer.  Berdan is sometimes corrosive, has a longer storage life, is not reloadable, and is usually dirtier.  Boxer is not corrosive,cleaner,reloadable, and usually (but not always) seen in non-military ammo.  Both types work fine in any AR15

3. Some ammo has a steel case, mostly Russian brands such as Wolf.  These cases are also usually coated with a laquer finish and are Berdan primed to give them very long shelf life.  Some AR15 (like mine and many others) have problems with this ammo. The reason is because as the barrel heats up, the laquer gets "melted" onto the chamber,bolt, and carrier of the AR15. This often results in jams and feeding problems.  It really is best to stay away from this ammo for AR, but it works great in AK47's and SKS rifles.

If you really want to learn more, I suggest you look for a used cheap reloading manual at the next gun show. These explain everything.

Sorry for the long post, but I hope it helps.

Link Posted: 2/1/2001 4:06:21 PM EDT
Close Join Our Mail List to Stay Up To Date! Win a FREE Membership!

Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!

You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.

By signing up you agree to our User Agreement. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win.
Top Top