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Posted: 10/28/2013 3:25:08 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/28/2013 3:26:13 PM EST by brown424]
The Sonoma County sheriff's deputy who fired the shots that killed a 13-year-old boy carrying a replica assault rifle last week is a firearms expert, Iraq War veteran, and a regular contributor to magazines and blogs that tackle gun issues.

The Santa Rosa Press Democrat first reported the name of the deputy as Erick Gelhaus, 48, which was confirmed to NBC Bay Area on Monday by Assistant Sheriff Lorenzo Dueñas.

Gelhaus' partner, a new hire with 11 years experience, did not fire his weapon, investigators said, and his name has not been publicly released.

Gelhuas, a deputy since 1989, has worked in patrol, gang enforcement and drug investigations, according to a mini profile at the Gunsite Academy. His profile lists him as an “avid hunter” both in North America and Africa, who teaches people how to shoot pistols, shotguns and rifles.

Link if someone wants to make it hot
http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Sonoma-County-Deputy-Who-Killed-Andy-Lopez-13-IDd-as-Erick-Gelhause-229588421.html

Did a 24 hour search with no results, if duped, mods please delete
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 3:29:12 PM EST
Sonoma Beach
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 3:30:00 PM EST
????
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 3:30:47 PM EST
Fuck, he writes for 'SWAT'.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 3:31:38 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/28/2013 3:33:30 PM EST by JohnSmith6073]
GunSite guy...



Doh, says so in OP.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 3:31:52 PM EST
He is also a Gunsite instructor
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 3:32:44 PM EST
1989?
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 3:34:03 PM EST
Hope he didn't get his boots dirty.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 3:34:05 PM EST
I didn't read much more of the last thread after it became a circle jerk, but was it ever said that the kid pointed the gun at the cops?
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 3:37:43 PM EST
Not that I know. All I heard from order to drop gun, to empty mag was 7 seconds. Don't even know any adults who can gather their thoughts and comply that quick. What chance do we stand against police who mis-identify a threat? Sounds like no chance at all.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 3:39:44 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By BubbaDog81:
Not that I know. All I heard from order to drop gun, to empty mag was 7 seconds. Don't even know any adults who can gather their thoughts and comply that quick. What chance do we stand against police who mis-identify a threat? Sounds like no chance at all.
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I wasn't there, I haven't heard audio or seen video, I'm not passing judgment. I'm just curious.. if you're so focused on that scenario, you've trained and shot thousands of rounds to prepare, rehearsed it in your mind over and over.. I just wonder how much your rational brain is in play at that point.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 3:40:52 PM EST
Well, of COURSE he's a "firearms expert," he's a COP! [/journalist]

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 3:42:24 PM EST
The kid not only was holding what he thought was an AK. The kid allegedly refused to drop it when ordered to do so. I give him the benefit of the doubt in this case.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 3:42:48 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By BubbaDog81:
Not that I know. All I heard from order to drop gun, to empty mag was 7 seconds. Don't even know any adults who can gather their thoughts and comply that quick. What chance do we stand against police who mis-identify a threat? Sounds like no chance at all.
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did you see the "toy" gun?
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 3:45:02 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By buckshot_jim:
The kid not only was holding what he thought was an AK. The kid allegedly refused to drop it when ordered to do so. I give him the benefit of the doubt in this case.
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This is California, man.. you're going to give a person less than 7 seconds to determine whether they live or die, when they might not even speak English?
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 3:45:38 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By buckshot_jim:
The kid not only was holding what he thought was an AK. The kid allegedly refused to drop it when ordered to do so. I give him the benefit of the doubt in this case.
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Normally I would, but I've seen enough to question how long the kid was given from order to pewpew. That and the above poster brought up a good point of training and brain activity. Like a dog going after a ball, if you train so much in that situation your rational brain might disengage to the detriment of those you took an oath to serve.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 3:46:13 PM EST
OH SHIT!
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 3:52:28 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/28/2013 3:53:25 PM EST by gggplaya]
I blame the parents for buying it for him and letting him walk around without the orange tip.

I have an airsoft AK and AR15 for a little training at home. They are full metal and nearly as heavy as the real deal. If they had real barrels, they would be just as heavy. They are full scale and from 20 feet away, you can't tell the difference. The only way to know is the orange tip. But then again, someone could paint the flash hider orange on a real gun, so it's a luck of the draw for the cop if he comes upon one.

I feel sorry for both the cop and the kid, but that's what you get when you have stupid parents breeding stupid kids. He simply shouldn't be walking around the neighborhood with it.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 3:53:47 PM EST
shit situation for all involved
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 3:54:07 PM EST
I Feel sorry for the officer everybody was probably yelling gun. As in training he shot. He will never be the same.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 3:54:43 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Durka-Durka:
I didn't read much more of the last thread after it became a circle jerk, but was it ever said that the kid pointed the gun at the cops?
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There's a photo at the scene.

It looked real enough to call Darwin and ask his opinion.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 3:55:35 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/28/2013 4:01:21 PM EST by Miles_Urbanus]
I served with him in Iraq. He is a solid dude. He is not a cowboy or elitist JBT. He is the kind of man I am proud to call a brother in arms. It breaks my heart to read this.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 3:55:42 PM EST
i hate JBTs as much as the next guy. but kid playing w/ AK? yeah...
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 3:56:27 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Mall-Ninja:
Well, of COURSE he's a "firearms expert," he's a COP! [/journalist]

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
View Quote



He is a firearms expert.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 3:56:47 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JellyBelly:

There's a photo at the scene.

It looked real enough to call Darwin and ask his opinion.
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Originally Posted By JellyBelly:
Originally Posted By Durka-Durka:
I didn't read much more of the last thread after it became a circle jerk, but was it ever said that the kid pointed the gun at the cops?

There's a photo at the scene.

It looked real enough to call Darwin and ask his opinion.


Uhh? Did you mean to respond to a different post?
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 3:57:13 PM EST
Failing to see an issue here.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 3:57:58 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bcsoeod:



did you see the "toy" gun?
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Originally Posted By bcsoeod:
Originally Posted By BubbaDog81:
Not that I know. All I heard from order to drop gun, to empty mag was 7 seconds. Don't even know any adults who can gather their thoughts and comply that quick. What chance do we stand against police who mis-identify a threat? Sounds like no chance at all.



did you see the "toy" gun?
No. Link?

Link Posted: 10/28/2013 3:58:10 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/28/2013 3:59:18 PM EST by AmericanPatriot1776]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By gggplaya:
I blame the parents for buying it for him and letting him walk around without the orange tip.

I have an airsoft AK and AR15 for a little training at home. They are full metal and nearly as heavy as the real deal. If they had real barrels, they would be just as heavy. They are full scale and from 20 feet away, you can't tell the difference. The only way to know is the orange tip. But then again, someone could paint the flash hider orange on a real gun, so it's a luck of the draw for the cop if he comes upon one.

I feel sorry for both the cop and the kid, but that's what you get when you have stupid parents breeding stupid kids. He simply shouldn't be walking around the neighborhood with it.
View Quote



Difference is, the cop gets to have a life....the kid's was taken from him. I hope you feel a little more "sorry" for the kid, since he is dead. We will never know what he was thinking.

He was just begging to be shot by a cop for walking around with a toy is what you are saying.

I am sure the cop will feel bad about it, but I bet the parents will feel worse.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 3:58:26 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By gggplaya:
I blame the parents for buying it for him and letting him walk around without the orange tip.

I have an airsoft AK and AR15 for a little training at home. They are full metal and nearly as heavy as the real deal. If they had real barrels, they would be just as heavy. They are full scale and from 20 feet away, you can't tell the difference. The only way to know is the orange tip. But then again, someone could paint the flash hider orange on a real gun, so it's a luck of the draw for the cop if he comes upon one.

I feel sorry for both the cop and the kid, but that's what you get when you have stupid parents breeding stupid kids. He simply shouldn't be walking around the neighborhood with it.
View Quote


Sorry but I call bullshit on this. We used to walk around with replica guns in the late 80s/early 90s all the time (I had an Uzi that was full size and weight, indistinguishable from the real thing unless you tried to remove the mag, my buddy had an M16) and we were never hassled or shot at. Kids used to walk around with actual guns in more rural areas, without incident.

Something has changed, and it's not kids liking guns.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 3:59:02 PM EST
Sorry but if that kid had pointed that gun at me I would have shot too. Terrible situation for all involved For those saying 7 seconds wasnt long enough, if you have ever had a gun pointed at you 7 seconds is a long fucking time
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 4:00:36 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bcsoeod:
Sorry but if that kid had pointed that gun at me I would have shot too. Terrible situation for all involved For those saying 7 seconds wasnt long enough, if you have ever had a gun pointed at you 7 seconds is a long fucking time
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I really have to wonder if the toy was pointed at the cop. I don't know, but I really have to wonder.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 4:01:25 PM EST
gun looked real enough you couldn't tell the difference unless you were holding it....13yo kid, 90 yo man, 30 yo woman....doesn't matter



there will be enough basement ninjas on here who will try to beat down a .mil veteran, firearms expert, and veteran deputy
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 4:03:05 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AmericanPatriot1776:


I really have to wonder if the toy was pointed at the cop. I don't know, but I really have to wonder.
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Originally Posted By AmericanPatriot1776:
Originally Posted By bcsoeod:
Sorry but if that kid had pointed that gun at me I would have shot too. Terrible situation for all involved For those saying 7 seconds wasnt long enough, if you have ever had a gun pointed at you 7 seconds is a long fucking time


I really have to wonder if the toy was pointed at the cop. I don't know, but I really have to wonder.



Seriously? In what other remotely imaginable scenario would he have felt the need to kill a 13 year old kid?
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 4:03:29 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/28/2013 4:04:36 PM EST by TaylorWSO]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Durka-Durka:

Normally I would, but I've seen enough to question how long the kid was given from order to pewpew. That and the above poster brought up a good point of training and brain activity. Like a dog going after a ball, if you train so much in that situation your rational brain might disengage to the detriment of those you took an oath to serve.
View Quote
So if I train a lot shooting bad guys on paper and my brain turns off when I shoot real "bad guys" I can use this as a defense???


I need to expand my paper target collection
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 4:03:59 PM EST
All that training and, experience, and expertise did not do that kid any good.

Tell me again what crime this kid committed?
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 4:04:09 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MMcCall:


Sorry but I call bullshit on this. We used to walk around with replica guns in the late 80s/early 90s all the time (I had an Uzi that was full size and weight, indistinguishable from the real thing unless you tried to remove the mag, my buddy had an M16) and we were never hassled or shot at. Kids used to walk around with actual guns in more rural areas, without incident.

Something has changed, and it's not kids liking guns.
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Originally Posted By MMcCall:
Originally Posted By gggplaya:
I blame the parents for buying it for him and letting him walk around without the orange tip.

I have an airsoft AK and AR15 for a little training at home. They are full metal and nearly as heavy as the real deal. If they had real barrels, they would be just as heavy. They are full scale and from 20 feet away, you can't tell the difference. The only way to know is the orange tip. But then again, someone could paint the flash hider orange on a real gun, so it's a luck of the draw for the cop if he comes upon one.

I feel sorry for both the cop and the kid, but that's what you get when you have stupid parents breeding stupid kids. He simply shouldn't be walking around the neighborhood with it.


Sorry but I call bullshit on this. We used to walk around with replica guns in the late 80s/early 90s all the time (I had an Uzi that was full size and weight, indistinguishable from the real thing unless you tried to remove the mag, my buddy had an M16) and we were never hassled or shot at. Kids used to walk around with actual guns in more rural areas, without incident.

Something has changed, and it's not kids liking guns.

Something has changed. Back in the day, some loon wouldn't be shooting up a school or a mall about once/week. I remember when a kid accidentally shooting someone would make the news. Now, if the body count doesn't rise above about 5, you won't even hear about it. Yeah, something has changed.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 4:04:25 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By staringback05:
gun looked real enough you couldn't tell the difference unless you were holding it....13yo kid, 90 yo man, 30 yo woman....doesn't matter

there will be enough basement ninjas on here who will try to beat down a .mil veteran, firearms expert, and veteran deputy
View Quote


Don't you think it's important to ask if the gun was pointed at him or not? Is it still ok to kill grandpa, a kid, or woman if they have an AK, even if its pointed 90deg away from you, just not obeying your commands for 7sec?
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 4:05:51 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TaylorWSO:
So if I train a lot shooting bad guys on paper and my brain turns off when I shoot real "bad guys" I can use this as a defense???


I need to expand my paper target collection
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Originally Posted By TaylorWSO:
Originally Posted By Durka-Durka:

Normally I would, but I've seen enough to question how long the kid was given from order to pewpew. That and the above poster brought up a good point of training and brain activity. Like a dog going after a ball, if you train so much in that situation your rational brain might disengage to the detriment of those you took an oath to serve.
So if I train a lot shooting bad guys on paper and my brain turns off when I shoot real "bad guys" I can use this as a defense???


I need to expand my paper target collection


Maybe, who knows, right?
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 4:06:20 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MMcCall:


Sorry but I call bullshit on this. We used to walk around with replica guns in the late 80s/early 90s all the time (I had an Uzi that was full size and weight, indistinguishable from the real thing unless you tried to remove the mag, my buddy had an M16) and we were never hassled or shot at. Kids used to walk around with actual guns in more rural areas, without incident.

Something has changed, and it's not kids liking guns.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MMcCall:
Originally Posted By gggplaya:
I blame the parents for buying it for him and letting him walk around without the orange tip.

I have an airsoft AK and AR15 for a little training at home. They are full metal and nearly as heavy as the real deal. If they had real barrels, they would be just as heavy. They are full scale and from 20 feet away, you can't tell the difference. The only way to know is the orange tip. But then again, someone could paint the flash hider orange on a real gun, so it's a luck of the draw for the cop if he comes upon one.

I feel sorry for both the cop and the kid, but that's what you get when you have stupid parents breeding stupid kids. He simply shouldn't be walking around the neighborhood with it.


Sorry but I call bullshit on this. We used to walk around with replica guns in the late 80s/early 90s all the time (I had an Uzi that was full size and weight, indistinguishable from the real thing unless you tried to remove the mag, my buddy had an M16) and we were never hassled or shot at. Kids used to walk around with actual guns in more rural areas, without incident.

Something has changed, and it's not kids liking guns.
Yup. When I was in fourth grade I carried a K98k 12 blocks to school for show and tell. I carried it in my hands because it was too long for me to sling it. Walked right past the cop who sat at the busy intersection waiting to bust speeders. He never said a damn word.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 4:06:27 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Miles_Urbanus:
I served with him in Iraq. He is a solid dude. He is not a cowboy or elitist JBT. He is the kind of man I am proud to call a brother in arms. It breaks my heart to read this.
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Originally Posted By Miles_Urbanus:
I served with him in Iraq. He is a solid dude. He is not a cowboy or elitist JBT. He is the kind of man I am proud to call a brother in arms. It breaks my heart to read this.


Originally Posted By Miles_Urbanus:
He is a firearms expert.

This is the kind of post that I actually put a good deal of stock in.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 4:07:05 PM EST
Shit sucks. That's all there is to be said until the investigation is done.

Monday morning quarterbacking a situation with only a broad idea of the

scenario doesn't help much.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 4:07:40 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Trempel:

Something has changed. Back in the day, some loon wouldn't be shooting up a school or a mall about once/week. I remember when a kid accidentally shooting someone would make the news. Now, if the body count doesn't rise above about 5, you won't even hear about it. Yeah, something has changed.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Trempel:
Originally Posted By MMcCall:
Originally Posted By gggplaya:
I blame the parents for buying it for him and letting him walk around without the orange tip.

I have an airsoft AK and AR15 for a little training at home. They are full metal and nearly as heavy as the real deal. If they had real barrels, they would be just as heavy. They are full scale and from 20 feet away, you can't tell the difference. The only way to know is the orange tip. But then again, someone could paint the flash hider orange on a real gun, so it's a luck of the draw for the cop if he comes upon one.

I feel sorry for both the cop and the kid, but that's what you get when you have stupid parents breeding stupid kids. He simply shouldn't be walking around the neighborhood with it.


Sorry but I call bullshit on this. We used to walk around with replica guns in the late 80s/early 90s all the time (I had an Uzi that was full size and weight, indistinguishable from the real thing unless you tried to remove the mag, my buddy had an M16) and we were never hassled or shot at. Kids used to walk around with actual guns in more rural areas, without incident.

Something has changed, and it's not kids liking guns.

Something has changed. Back in the day, some loon wouldn't be shooting up a school or a mall about once/week. I remember when a kid accidentally shooting someone would make the news. Now, if the body count doesn't rise above about 5, you won't even hear about it. Yeah, something has changed.


You gotta ask yourself now if that's cause or effect?
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 4:08:12 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Miles_Urbanus:

He is a firearms expert.
View Quote
Sadly, not a threat expert
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 4:10:57 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Recon_by_Fire:
All that training and, experience, and expertise did not do that kid any good.

Tell me again what crime this kid committed?
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Can people his age walk around with firearms in that state? Was he legally in the lot he was walking through? I am pretty sure the Kommie state won't that young of a person possess a registered assault weapon, so there is a presumption he is violating that law.

DO you need more?
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 4:11:01 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Durka-Durka:
You gotta ask yourself now if that's cause or effect?
View Quote


Regardless of which it is, its now reality. In certain environments, it is not normal for a young boy to be carrying a rifle in public. Period. It does not matter why, or how it got to be this way, it simply is. The reaction to such an act is dictated by that truth, not by the way you wish it was, or how it used to be.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 4:13:00 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bcsoeod:
Sorry but if that kid had pointed that gun at me I would have shot too. Terrible situation for all involved For those saying 7 seconds wasnt long enough, if you have ever had a gun pointed at you 7 seconds is a long fucking time
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Ask a bull rider how long 8 seconds are. Sounds like a tragedy that no e of us are qualified to pass judgement on because we weren't there.


Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 4:14:10 PM EST
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Originally Posted By TaylorWSO:
Sadly, not a threat expert
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Originally Posted By TaylorWSO:
Originally Posted By Miles_Urbanus:

He is a firearms expert.
Sadly, not a threat expert


what an ignorant post. I'm so thankful knowing there are pure american badasses like yourself that if faced with a similar situation would just do a front flip roll and kick the gun out of the persons hands, but I guess you wouldn't even have to do that because you would just know immediately it was a toy and not a real AK
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 4:14:34 PM EST
I don't have an opinion because I was not there, but I do now from experience from long ago that an 8 year old child can kill you very quickly in the right circumstances.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 4:14:57 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Miles_Urbanus:
I served with him in Iraq. He is a solid dude. He is not a cowboy or elitist JBT. He is the kind of man I am proud to call a brother in arms. It breaks my heart to read this.
View Quote


Start writing letters of character with specifics. This information might make it to the press and it MIGHT be used against him. You might want to contact him.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 4:15:50 PM EST
When I was young my friends and I had rifles and used them without getting murdered by a cop. And they weren't "replicas."
My oh my have the times a changed.
Link Posted: 10/28/2013 4:16:59 PM EST
As best I can tell, we still have no idea if the kid was pointing the (very authentic) replica at the officers or not, and that makes all the difference in the world in this scenario.

Kid points gun: good shoot
Kid didn't point gun : probably not good shoot
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