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Posted: 10/28/2013 4:29:12 PM EDT
[#1]
Sonoma Beach
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Posted: 10/28/2013 4:30:00 PM EDT
[#2]
????
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Posted: 10/28/2013 4:30:47 PM EDT
[#3]
Fuck, he writes for 'SWAT'.
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Posted: 10/28/2013 4:31:38 PM EDT
[#4]
GunSite guy...
Doh, says so in OP. |
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Posted: 10/28/2013 4:31:52 PM EDT
[#5]
He is also a Gunsite instructor
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Posted: 10/28/2013 4:32:44 PM EDT
[#6]
1989?
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Posted: 10/28/2013 4:34:03 PM EDT
[#7]
Hope he didn't get his boots dirty.
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Posted: 10/28/2013 4:34:05 PM EDT
[#8]
I didn't read much more of the last thread after it became a circle jerk, but was it ever said that the kid pointed the gun at the cops?
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Posted: 10/28/2013 4:37:43 PM EDT
[#9]
Not that I know. All I heard from order to drop gun, to empty mag was 7 seconds. Don't even know any adults who can gather their thoughts and comply that quick. What chance do we stand against police who mis-identify a threat? Sounds like no chance at all.
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Posted: 10/28/2013 4:39:44 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not that I know. All I heard from order to drop gun, to empty mag was 7 seconds. Don't even know any adults who can gather their thoughts and comply that quick. What chance do we stand against police who mis-identify a threat? Sounds like no chance at all. I wasn't there, I haven't heard audio or seen video, I'm not passing judgment. I'm just curious.. if you're so focused on that scenario, you've trained and shot thousands of rounds to prepare, rehearsed it in your mind over and over.. I just wonder how much your rational brain is in play at that point. |
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Posted: 10/28/2013 4:40:52 PM EDT
[#11]
Well, of COURSE he's a "firearms expert," he's a COP! [/journalist]
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 10/28/2013 4:42:24 PM EDT
[#12]
The kid not only was holding what he thought was an AK. The kid allegedly refused to drop it when ordered to do so. I give him the benefit of the doubt in this case.
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Posted: 10/28/2013 4:42:48 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not that I know. All I heard from order to drop gun, to empty mag was 7 seconds. Don't even know any adults who can gather their thoughts and comply that quick. What chance do we stand against police who mis-identify a threat? Sounds like no chance at all. did you see the "toy" gun? |
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Posted: 10/28/2013 4:45:02 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The kid not only was holding what he thought was an AK. The kid allegedly refused to drop it when ordered to do so. I give him the benefit of the doubt in this case. This is California, man.. you're going to give a person less than 7 seconds to determine whether they live or die, when they might not even speak English? |
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Posted: 10/28/2013 4:45:38 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The kid not only was holding what he thought was an AK. The kid allegedly refused to drop it when ordered to do so. I give him the benefit of the doubt in this case. Normally I would, but I've seen enough to question how long the kid was given from order to pewpew. That and the above poster brought up a good point of training and brain activity. Like a dog going after a ball, if you train so much in that situation your rational brain might disengage to the detriment of those you took an oath to serve. |
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Posted: 10/28/2013 4:46:13 PM EDT
[#16]
OH SHIT!
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Posted: 10/28/2013 4:52:28 PM EDT
[#17]
I blame the parents for buying it for him and letting him walk around without the orange tip.
I have an airsoft AK and AR15 for a little training at home. They are full metal and nearly as heavy as the real deal. If they had real barrels, they would be just as heavy. They are full scale and from 20 feet away, you can't tell the difference. The only way to know is the orange tip. But then again, someone could paint the flash hider orange on a real gun, so it's a luck of the draw for the cop if he comes upon one. I feel sorry for both the cop and the kid, but that's what you get when you have stupid parents breeding stupid kids. He simply shouldn't be walking around the neighborhood with it. |
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Posted: 10/28/2013 4:53:47 PM EDT
[#18]
shit situation for all involved
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Posted: 10/28/2013 4:54:07 PM EDT
[#19]
I Feel sorry for the officer everybody was probably yelling gun. As in training he shot. He will never be the same.
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Posted: 10/28/2013 4:54:43 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I didn't read much more of the last thread after it became a circle jerk, but was it ever said that the kid pointed the gun at the cops? There's a photo at the scene. It looked real enough to call Darwin and ask his opinion. |
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Posted: 10/28/2013 4:55:35 PM EDT
[#21]
I served with him in Iraq. He is a solid dude. He is not a cowboy or elitist JBT. He is the kind of man I am proud to call a brother in arms. It breaks my heart to read this.
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Posted: 10/28/2013 4:55:42 PM EDT
[#22]
i hate JBTs as much as the next guy. but kid playing w/ AK? yeah...
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Posted: 10/28/2013 4:56:27 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well, of COURSE he's a "firearms expert," he's a COP! [/journalist] Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile He is a firearms expert. |
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Posted: 10/28/2013 4:56:47 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There's a photo at the scene. It looked real enough to call Darwin and ask his opinion. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I didn't read much more of the last thread after it became a circle jerk, but was it ever said that the kid pointed the gun at the cops? There's a photo at the scene. It looked real enough to call Darwin and ask his opinion. Uhh? Did you mean to respond to a different post? 
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Posted: 10/28/2013 4:57:13 PM EDT
[#25]
Failing to see an issue here.
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Posted: 10/28/2013 4:57:58 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: did you see the "toy" gun? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Not that I know. All I heard from order to drop gun, to empty mag was 7 seconds. Don't even know any adults who can gather their thoughts and comply that quick. What chance do we stand against police who mis-identify a threat? Sounds like no chance at all. did you see the "toy" gun? |
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Posted: 10/28/2013 4:58:10 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I blame the parents for buying it for him and letting him walk around without the orange tip. I have an airsoft AK and AR15 for a little training at home. They are full metal and nearly as heavy as the real deal. If they had real barrels, they would be just as heavy. They are full scale and from 20 feet away, you can't tell the difference. The only way to know is the orange tip. But then again, someone could paint the flash hider orange on a real gun, so it's a luck of the draw for the cop if he comes upon one. I feel sorry for both the cop and the kid, but that's what you get when you have stupid parents breeding stupid kids. He simply shouldn't be walking around the neighborhood with it. Difference is, the cop gets to have a life....the kid's was taken from him. I hope you feel a little more "sorry" for the kid, since he is dead. We will never know what he was thinking. He was just begging to be shot by a cop for walking around with a toy is what you are saying. I am sure the cop will feel bad about it, but I bet the parents will feel worse. |
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Posted: 10/28/2013 4:58:26 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I blame the parents for buying it for him and letting him walk around without the orange tip. I have an airsoft AK and AR15 for a little training at home. They are full metal and nearly as heavy as the real deal. If they had real barrels, they would be just as heavy. They are full scale and from 20 feet away, you can't tell the difference. The only way to know is the orange tip. But then again, someone could paint the flash hider orange on a real gun, so it's a luck of the draw for the cop if he comes upon one. I feel sorry for both the cop and the kid, but that's what you get when you have stupid parents breeding stupid kids. He simply shouldn't be walking around the neighborhood with it. Sorry but I call bullshit on this. We used to walk around with replica guns in the late 80s/early 90s all the time (I had an Uzi that was full size and weight, indistinguishable from the real thing unless you tried to remove the mag, my buddy had an M16) and we were never hassled or shot at. Kids used to walk around with actual guns in more rural areas, without incident. Something has changed, and it's not kids liking guns. |
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Posted: 10/28/2013 4:59:02 PM EDT
[#29]
Sorry but if that kid had pointed that gun at me I would have shot too. Terrible situation for all involved
For those saying 7 seconds wasnt long enough, if you have ever had a gun pointed at you 7 seconds is a long fucking time
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Posted: 10/28/2013 5:00:36 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sorry but if that kid had pointed that gun at me I would have shot too. Terrible situation for all involved For those saying 7 seconds wasnt long enough, if you have ever had a gun pointed at you 7 seconds is a long fucking timeI really have to wonder if the toy was pointed at the cop. I don't know, but I really have to wonder. |
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Posted: 10/28/2013 5:01:25 PM EDT
[#31]
gun looked real enough you couldn't tell the difference unless you were holding it....13yo kid, 90 yo man, 30 yo woman....doesn't matter
there will be enough basement ninjas on here who will try to beat down a .mil veteran, firearms expert, and veteran deputy 
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Posted: 10/28/2013 5:03:05 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I really have to wonder if the toy was pointed at the cop. I don't know, but I really have to wonder. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Sorry but if that kid had pointed that gun at me I would have shot too. Terrible situation for all involved For those saying 7 seconds wasnt long enough, if you have ever had a gun pointed at you 7 seconds is a long fucking timeI really have to wonder if the toy was pointed at the cop. I don't know, but I really have to wonder. Seriously? In what other remotely imaginable scenario would he have felt the need to kill a 13 year old kid? |
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Posted: 10/28/2013 5:03:29 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Normally I would, but I've seen enough to question how long the kid was given from order to pewpew. That and the above poster brought up a good point of training and brain activity. Like a dog going after a ball, if you train so much in that situation your rational brain might disengage to the detriment of those you took an oath to serve. I need to expand my paper target collection |
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Posted: 10/28/2013 5:03:59 PM EDT
[#34]
All that training and, experience, and expertise did not do that kid any good.
Tell me again what crime this kid committed? |
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Posted: 10/28/2013 5:04:09 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sorry but I call bullshit on this. We used to walk around with replica guns in the late 80s/early 90s all the time (I had an Uzi that was full size and weight, indistinguishable from the real thing unless you tried to remove the mag, my buddy had an M16) and we were never hassled or shot at. Kids used to walk around with actual guns in more rural areas, without incident. Something has changed, and it's not kids liking guns. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I blame the parents for buying it for him and letting him walk around without the orange tip. I have an airsoft AK and AR15 for a little training at home. They are full metal and nearly as heavy as the real deal. If they had real barrels, they would be just as heavy. They are full scale and from 20 feet away, you can't tell the difference. The only way to know is the orange tip. But then again, someone could paint the flash hider orange on a real gun, so it's a luck of the draw for the cop if he comes upon one. I feel sorry for both the cop and the kid, but that's what you get when you have stupid parents breeding stupid kids. He simply shouldn't be walking around the neighborhood with it. Sorry but I call bullshit on this. We used to walk around with replica guns in the late 80s/early 90s all the time (I had an Uzi that was full size and weight, indistinguishable from the real thing unless you tried to remove the mag, my buddy had an M16) and we were never hassled or shot at. Kids used to walk around with actual guns in more rural areas, without incident. Something has changed, and it's not kids liking guns. Something has changed. Back in the day, some loon wouldn't be shooting up a school or a mall about once/week. I remember when a kid accidentally shooting someone would make the news. Now, if the body count doesn't rise above about 5, you won't even hear about it. Yeah, something has changed.
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Posted: 10/28/2013 5:04:25 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
gun looked real enough you couldn't tell the difference unless you were holding it....13yo kid, 90 yo man, 30 yo woman....doesn't matter there will be enough basement ninjas on here who will try to beat down a .mil veteran, firearms expert, and veteran deputy Don't you think it's important to ask if the gun was pointed at him or not? Is it still ok to kill grandpa, a kid, or woman if they have an AK, even if its pointed 90deg away from you, just not obeying your commands for 7sec? |
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Posted: 10/28/2013 5:05:51 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So if I train a lot shooting bad guys on paper and my brain turns off when I shoot real "bad guys" I can use this as a defense??? I need to expand my paper target collection
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Normally I would, but I've seen enough to question how long the kid was given from order to pewpew. That and the above poster brought up a good point of training and brain activity. Like a dog going after a ball, if you train so much in that situation your rational brain might disengage to the detriment of those you took an oath to serve. I need to expand my paper target collection
Maybe, who knows, right? |
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Posted: 10/28/2013 5:06:20 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sorry but I call bullshit on this. We used to walk around with replica guns in the late 80s/early 90s all the time (I had an Uzi that was full size and weight, indistinguishable from the real thing unless you tried to remove the mag, my buddy had an M16) and we were never hassled or shot at. Kids used to walk around with actual guns in more rural areas, without incident. Something has changed, and it's not kids liking guns. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I blame the parents for buying it for him and letting him walk around without the orange tip. I have an airsoft AK and AR15 for a little training at home. They are full metal and nearly as heavy as the real deal. If they had real barrels, they would be just as heavy. They are full scale and from 20 feet away, you can't tell the difference. The only way to know is the orange tip. But then again, someone could paint the flash hider orange on a real gun, so it's a luck of the draw for the cop if he comes upon one. I feel sorry for both the cop and the kid, but that's what you get when you have stupid parents breeding stupid kids. He simply shouldn't be walking around the neighborhood with it. Sorry but I call bullshit on this. We used to walk around with replica guns in the late 80s/early 90s all the time (I had an Uzi that was full size and weight, indistinguishable from the real thing unless you tried to remove the mag, my buddy had an M16) and we were never hassled or shot at. Kids used to walk around with actual guns in more rural areas, without incident. Something has changed, and it's not kids liking guns. |
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Posted: 10/28/2013 5:06:27 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I served with him in Iraq. He is a solid dude. He is not a cowboy or elitist JBT. He is the kind of man I am proud to call a brother in arms. It breaks my heart to read this. Quote HistoryQuoted:
I served with him in Iraq. He is a solid dude. He is not a cowboy or elitist JBT. He is the kind of man I am proud to call a brother in arms. It breaks my heart to read this. Quoted:
He is a firearms expert. This is the kind of post that I actually put a good deal of stock in. |
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Posted: 10/28/2013 5:07:05 PM EDT
[#40]
Shit sucks. That's all there is to be said until the investigation is done.
Monday morning quarterbacking a situation with only a broad idea of the scenario doesn't help much. |
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Posted: 10/28/2013 5:07:40 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Something has changed. Back in the day, some loon wouldn't be shooting up a school or a mall about once/week. I remember when a kid accidentally shooting someone would make the news. Now, if the body count doesn't rise above about 5, you won't even hear about it. Yeah, something has changed. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I blame the parents for buying it for him and letting him walk around without the orange tip. I have an airsoft AK and AR15 for a little training at home. They are full metal and nearly as heavy as the real deal. If they had real barrels, they would be just as heavy. They are full scale and from 20 feet away, you can't tell the difference. The only way to know is the orange tip. But then again, someone could paint the flash hider orange on a real gun, so it's a luck of the draw for the cop if he comes upon one. I feel sorry for both the cop and the kid, but that's what you get when you have stupid parents breeding stupid kids. He simply shouldn't be walking around the neighborhood with it. Sorry but I call bullshit on this. We used to walk around with replica guns in the late 80s/early 90s all the time (I had an Uzi that was full size and weight, indistinguishable from the real thing unless you tried to remove the mag, my buddy had an M16) and we were never hassled or shot at. Kids used to walk around with actual guns in more rural areas, without incident. Something has changed, and it's not kids liking guns. Something has changed. Back in the day, some loon wouldn't be shooting up a school or a mall about once/week. I remember when a kid accidentally shooting someone would make the news. Now, if the body count doesn't rise above about 5, you won't even hear about it. Yeah, something has changed. You gotta ask yourself now if that's cause or effect? |
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Posted: 10/28/2013 5:08:12 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He is a firearms expert. |
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Posted: 10/28/2013 5:10:57 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
All that training and, experience, and expertise did not do that kid any good. Tell me again what crime this kid committed? Can people his age walk around with firearms in that state? Was he legally in the lot he was walking through? I am pretty sure the Kommie state won't that young of a person possess a registered assault weapon, so there is a presumption he is violating that law. DO you need more? |
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Posted: 10/28/2013 5:11:01 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You gotta ask yourself now if that's cause or effect? Regardless of which it is, its now reality. In certain environments, it is not normal for a young boy to be carrying a rifle in public. Period. It does not matter why, or how it got to be this way, it simply is. The reaction to such an act is dictated by that truth, not by the way you wish it was, or how it used to be. |
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Posted: 10/28/2013 5:13:00 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sorry but if that kid had pointed that gun at me I would have shot too. Terrible situation for all involved For those saying 7 seconds wasnt long enough, if you have ever had a gun pointed at you 7 seconds is a long fucking timeAsk a bull rider how long 8 seconds are. Sounds like a tragedy that no e of us are qualified to pass judgement on because we weren't there. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 10/28/2013 5:14:10 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sadly, not a threat expert Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
He is a firearms expert. what an ignorant post. I'm so thankful knowing there are pure american badasses like yourself that if faced with a similar situation would just do a front flip roll and kick the gun out of the persons hands, but I guess you wouldn't even have to do that because you would just know immediately it was a toy and not a real AK
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Posted: 10/28/2013 5:14:34 PM EDT
[#47]
I don't have an opinion because I was not there, but I do now from experience from long ago that an 8 year old child can kill you very quickly in the right circumstances.
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Posted: 10/28/2013 5:14:57 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I served with him in Iraq. He is a solid dude. He is not a cowboy or elitist JBT. He is the kind of man I am proud to call a brother in arms. It breaks my heart to read this. Start writing letters of character with specifics. This information might make it to the press and it MIGHT be used against him. You might want to contact him. |
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Posted: 10/28/2013 5:15:50 PM EDT
[#49]
When I was young my friends and I had rifles and used them without getting murdered by a cop. And they weren't "replicas."
My oh my have the times a changed. 
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Posted: 10/28/2013 5:16:59 PM EDT
[#50]
As best I can tell, we still have no idea if the kid was pointing the (very authentic) replica at the officers or not, and that makes all the difference in the world in this scenario.
Kid points gun: good shoot Kid didn't point gun : probably not good shoot |
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