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Posted: 5/29/2008 9:54:26 AM EST
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May 29, 2008
Knight Ridder

FALLUJAH, Iraq - At the western entrance to the Iraqi city of Fallujah on May 27, Muamar Anad handed his residence badge to the U.S. Marines guarding the city. They checked to be sure that he was a city resident, and when they were done, Anad said, a Marine slipped a coin out of his pocket and put it in his hand.

Out of fear, he accepted it, Anad said. When he was inside the city, the college student said, he looked at one side of the coin. "Where will you spend eternity?" it asked.

He flipped it over, and on the other side it read, "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. John 3:16."

"They are trying to convert us to Christianity," said Anad, a Sunni Muslim like most residents of this city in Anbar province. At home, he told his story, and his relatives echoed their disapproval: They'd been given the coins, too, he said.

...

In the markets, people crowded around men with the coins, passing them to each other and asking in surprise, "Have you seen this?"

The head of the Sunni endowment in Fallujah, the organization that oversees Sunni places of worship and other religious establishments, demanded that the Marines stop.

"We say to the occupiers to stop this," said Sheikh Mohammed Amin Abdel Hadi. "This can cause strife between the Iraqis and especially between Muslim and Christians . . . . Please stop these things and leave our homes because we are Muslims and we live in our homes in peace with other religions."


Is this an advanced course in how to totally fuck up a counter-insurgency or what?
Link Posted: 5/29/2008 9:59:20 AM EST
Well, if we're going to have a Crusade...
Link Posted: 5/29/2008 10:01:22 AM EST
What branch again?

Oh yeah... Marines.
Link Posted: 5/29/2008 10:02:03 AM EST
O TEH NOES!!!!!!!

The Marines just liked him so much they want to spend eternity with him.
Link Posted: 5/29/2008 10:02:20 AM EST

Originally Posted By AndrewH05:
What branch again?

Oh yeah... Marines.


WTF does that mean?
Link Posted: 5/29/2008 10:03:56 AM EST

Originally Posted By BadShovelhead:

Originally Posted By AndrewH05:
What branch again?

Oh yeah... Marines.


WTF does that mean?


Calm down, don't get your panties tied in a knot now.

But no one ever praised Marines for being smart.
Link Posted: 5/29/2008 10:04:14 AM EST
More power to the Marines. God Bless them.
Link Posted: 5/29/2008 10:05:05 AM EST
tag for the shitstorm..
Link Posted: 5/29/2008 10:05:06 AM EST
And this is bad how?

Us: Pass out coins.
Them: Blow up people.

Its a distinction worth noticing.
Link Posted: 5/29/2008 10:06:21 AM EST
im a great crusader your a herman munster
Link Posted: 5/29/2008 10:07:40 AM EST

Originally Posted By BamaTrapper:
More power to the Marines. God Bless them.


Yeah-because the way to win hearts and minds is to tell the populace that they're going to burn in hell.

I don't like it when the JWs come to my door-I'd probably be fucking furious if someone from another nation's military, in uniform and armed, handed me a note that had a verse from the Koran and a "Death to the infidels!" note on the back.
Link Posted: 5/29/2008 10:08:21 AM EST

Originally Posted By JonasWright:
....

Is this an advanced course in how to totally fuck up a counter-insurgency or what?


+1
Link Posted: 5/29/2008 10:09:05 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/29/2008 10:09:41 AM EST by 87GN]
I guarantee that this is 1 or 2 Marines, not a squad or anything higher.

I knew a Marine who would do this, but last I heard he was in the brig.

Edit: This will NOT end well for the individuals involved.
Link Posted: 5/29/2008 10:09:18 AM EST

Originally Posted By TWIRE:
And this is bad how?

Us: Pass out coins.
Them: Blow up people.

Its a distinction worth noticing.


Because it is already unstable enough over here, the people are brainwashed into thinking this is a war over religion, so let's go ahead and help the propaganda out by passing out coins to Muslims with writings from the Bible on it.

How in the hell is destabilizing the region NOT bad?
Link Posted: 5/29/2008 10:09:23 AM EST
The act of passing out any prosletyzing materials for ANY faith in that shithole is just insane! I understand the desire of some Christians and Muslims to convert non-believers...but in this case it simply boggles the mind!

I REALLY hope this is BS.
Link Posted: 5/29/2008 10:10:39 AM EST

Originally Posted By TWIRE:
And this is bad how?

Us: Pass out coins.
Them: Blow up people.

Its a distinction worth noticing.


Which brand of Jesus are they endorsing? Catholocism? Are they Baptists, Seventh Day Adventists, Mormons or snake handlers? Would you protest armed Iraqi soldiers handing out Mohammed hats?
Link Posted: 5/29/2008 10:12:19 AM EST

Originally Posted By LWilde:
The act of passing out any prosletyzing materials for ANY faith in that shithole is just insane! I understand the desire of some Christians and Muslims to convert non-believers...but in this case it simply boggles the mind!

I REALLY hope this is BS.



If it's true it's 100% pure bred stupid to be doing this.
Link Posted: 5/29/2008 10:13:41 AM EST

Originally Posted By AndrewH05:

Originally Posted By BadShovelhead:

Originally Posted By AndrewH05:
What branch again?

Oh yeah... Marines.


WTF does that mean?


Calm down, don't get your panties tied in a knot now.

But no one ever praised Marines for being smart.


Really?


"I can't say enough about the two Marine divisions. If I use words like 'brilliant,' it would really be an under description of the absolutely superb job that they did in breaching the so-called 'impenetrable barrier.' "

Gen. Norman Schwarzkopf, U. S. Army
Commander, Operation Desert Storm, February 1991
Link Posted: 5/29/2008 10:13:56 AM EST

Originally Posted By Gravity_Tester:

Originally Posted By TWIRE:
And this is bad how?

Us: Pass out coins.
Them: Blow up people.

Its a distinction worth noticing.


Which brand of Jesus are they endorsing? Catholocism? Are they Baptists, Seventh Day Adventists, Mormons or snake handlers? Would you protest armed Iraqi soldiers handing out Mohammed hats?


You do NOT want it to appear under any circumstances that the west is trying to convert Iraqis to Christianity. Period.
Link Posted: 5/29/2008 10:15:30 AM EST

Originally Posted By JDC_VA_USMC:

Originally Posted By AndrewH05:

Originally Posted By BadShovelhead:

Originally Posted By AndrewH05:
What branch again?

Oh yeah... Marines.


WTF does that mean?


Calm down, don't get your panties tied in a knot now.

But no one ever praised Marines for being smart.


Really?


"I can't say enough about the two Marine divisions. If I use words like 'brilliant,' it would really be an under description of the absolutely superb job that they did in breaching the so-called 'impenetrable barrier.' "

Gen. Norman Schwarzkopf, U. S. Army
Commander, Operation Desert Storm, February 1991


Shit, some of you act like each service doesn't make fun of one another.

Get over it, I was obviously not being serious, do I need to fill this page up with smiley faces so you don't get all butt hurt or what?

Link Posted: 5/29/2008 10:16:44 AM EST
Well,if we're going to force the Iraqis into western style democracy and freedom,we might as well get them used to freedom of religion (which includes the freedom to proselytize even if you're not the dominant religion).
It's not as though there weren't any Christians in Iraq before the invasion. They were just not allowed to proselytize.
Link Posted: 5/29/2008 10:18:03 AM EST

Originally Posted By Poodleshooter:
Well,if we're going to force the Iraqis into western style democracy and freedom,we might as well get them used to freedom of religion (which includes the freedom to proselytize even if you're not the dominant religion).
It's not as though there weren't any Christians in Iraq before the invasion. They were just not allowed to proselytize.


Fail. That's not how it works over here.

Try again.
Link Posted: 5/29/2008 10:19:28 AM EST
Not a good idea for reasons already mentioned.
Link Posted: 5/29/2008 10:19:39 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/29/2008 10:19:58 AM EST by ANGST]

Originally Posted By AndrewH05:

Originally Posted By Poodleshooter:
Well,if we're going to force the Iraqis into western style democracy and freedom,we might as well get them used to freedom of religion (which includes the freedom to proselytize even if you're not the dominant religion).
It's not as though there weren't any Christians in Iraq before the invasion. They were just not allowed to proselytize.


Fail. That's not how it works over here.

Try again.


Iraq was officially secular more or less under Hussain , correct ? Tarik Aziz is a christian I belive too.
Link Posted: 5/29/2008 10:20:40 AM EST

Originally Posted By ANGST:

Originally Posted By AndrewH05:

Originally Posted By Poodleshooter:
Well,if we're going to force the Iraqis into western style democracy and freedom,we might as well get them used to freedom of religion (which includes the freedom to proselytize even if you're not the dominant religion).
It's not as though there weren't any Christians in Iraq before the invasion. They were just not allowed to proselytize.


Fail. That's not how it works over here.

Try again.


Iraq was officially secular more or less under Hussain , correct ?



Yes-ish. But the religions left each other alone and did not antagonize each other by prostylethising.
Link Posted: 5/29/2008 10:20:50 AM EST

Originally Posted By badfish274:

Originally Posted By Gravity_Tester:

Originally Posted By TWIRE:
And this is bad how?

Us: Pass out coins.
Them: Blow up people.

Its a distinction worth noticing.


Which brand of Jesus are they endorsing? Catholocism? Are they Baptists, Seventh Day Adventists, Mormons or snake handlers? Would you protest armed Iraqi soldiers handing out Mohammed hats?


You do NOT want it to appear under any circumstances that the west is trying to convert Iraqis to Christianity. Period.


*I* know that, and *you* know that, but there are some folks that will post in this very thread that see no problem with armed men, who are representatives of a western country, passing out "Are you gonna burn in hell" pamphlets and Jack Chick tracts in a predominately Muslim country...
Link Posted: 5/29/2008 10:24:30 AM EST

Originally Posted By ANGST:

Originally Posted By AndrewH05:

Originally Posted By Poodleshooter:
Well,if we're going to force the Iraqis into western style democracy and freedom,we might as well get them used to freedom of religion (which includes the freedom to proselytize even if you're not the dominant religion).
It's not as though there weren't any Christians in Iraq before the invasion. They were just not allowed to proselytize.


Fail. That's not how it works over here.

Try again.


Iraq was officially secular more or less under Hussain , correct ? Tarik Aziz is a christian I belive too.


Vito just said what I was going to say, if you want to be a Muslim fine, if you want to be Christian fine, but you don't go around trying to convert people over here, that is a QUICK way to insight violence, and get people killed.

Link Posted: 5/29/2008 10:25:01 AM EST

Originally Posted By Gravity_Tester:

Originally Posted By BamaTrapper:
More power to the Marines. God Bless them.


Yeah-because the way to win hearts and minds is to tell the populace that they're going to burn in hell.

I don't like it when the JWs come to my door-I'd probably be fucking furious if someone from another nation's military, in uniform and armed, handed me a note that had a verse from the Koran and a "Death to the infidels!" note on the back.


They wouldn't hand you a note. They would have a 12 year old kid saw your head off with a knife on videotape.

Given the track record of Islam, I fail to see how introducing Christian values would make the place worse. :)
Link Posted: 5/29/2008 10:26:21 AM EST

Originally Posted By BamaTrapper:

Originally Posted By Gravity_Tester:

Originally Posted By BamaTrapper:
More power to the Marines. God Bless them.


Yeah-because the way to win hearts and minds is to tell the populace that they're going to burn in hell.

I don't like it when the JWs come to my door-I'd probably be fucking furious if someone from another nation's military, in uniform and armed, handed me a note that had a verse from the Koran and a "Death to the infidels!" note on the back.


They wouldn't hand you a note. They would have a 12 year old kid saw your head off with a knife on videotape.

Given the track record of Islam, I fail to see how introducing Christian values would make the place worse. :)


You're playing right into Bin Laden's plans.
Link Posted: 5/29/2008 10:27:12 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/29/2008 10:31:49 AM EST by METT-T]
Flagrant Article 92 violation. Court martial, stomp their nuts flat.

This is an old copy but I'm sure the gist remains the same...


The following is referred to as General Order Number One (G.O. #1). All U.S. servicemembers in Southwest Asia are bound by the Uniform Code of Military Justice to obey the contents of this order. The bolded sections (introduction,3, 5, and 10) apply specifically to culture-specific restrictions.

G.O. #1 is based upon Islamic law and Arabic customs that prohibit or restrict certain activities which are generally permissible in western societies. Restrictions on these activities are essential to preserving good relations with the host nation. Therefore, under Title 10, United States Code, Section 164 and the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ), Title 10, United States Code Sections 801-946, all military personnel assigned or attached to duty with the Joint Task Force-Southwest Asia (JTF-SWA) and to USCENTAF (FWD) units located in the USCENTCOM AOR are prohibited from certain activities.

The following activities are prohibited:

1. Purchase, possession, use or sale of privately owned firearms, ammunition, explosives, or the introduction of these items into the USCENTAF AOR.

2. Entrance into a mosque or other site of Islamic religious significance by non Moslems unless directed to do so by military authorities or required by military necessity, or as part of an official tour conducted with the approval of military authorities and the host nation.

3. Introduction, possession, use, sale, transfer, manufacture or consumption of any alcoholic beverage within countries of Kuwait and Saudi Arabia. In all other countries of the JTF-SWA/USCENTAF (FWD) AOR, the U.S. military will follow appropriate deportment and abide by host-nation laws and customs. Because of the high operational tempo and the various threats faced by U.S. forces in the region, it is prudent to exercise active control over certain activities in order to maintain good order and discipline and ensure optimum readiness. Accordingly, in all locations where alcohol is not prohibited by this General Order, commanders and unit chiefs a re directed to exercise discretion and good judgment in promulgating and enforcing appropriate guidelines and restrictions, regularly reviewed to ensure they are commensurate with current or foreseen operations and threats.

4. Introduction, purchase, possession, use, sale, transfer, manufacture or consumption of any controlled substances or drug paraphernalia. Prescription drugs must be accompanied by the original prescription label of the prescribing medical facility or authority.

5. Introduction, possession, transfer, sale, creation or display of any pornographic photograph, videotape, movie, drawing, book or magazine or similar representations. For purposes of this order, "pornographic" means any medium which displays human genitalia, uncovered women's breasts or any human sexual act. It is intended to include not only "obscene items", but items of "art" which display human genitalia, uncovered women's breasts or any human sexual act. In addition, the introduction, possession, transfer, sale, creation or display of any sexually explicit photograph, videotape, movie, drawing, book or magazine is also prohibited. For purposes of this order, Asexually explicit" means any medium displaying the human anatomy in any unclothed or semi clothed manner and which displays portions of the human torso (i.e., the area below the neck, above the knees and inside the shoulder). By way of example, but not limitation, are body building magazines, swim-suit editions of periodicals, lingerie or underwear advertisements and catalogues, as well as visual media which infer but do not directly show human genitalia, women's breasts, or human sexual acts. The prohibitions contained in this subparagraph do not apply to materials displayed or obtained by or from AFPTS, AAFES or MWR outlets in the JTF-SWA/USCENTAF (FWD) AOR.

6. Gambling of any kind, including sports pools, lotteries and raffles unless permitted by host-nation laws and service/component regulations.

7. Removing, possessing, selling, defacing or destroying, archeological artifacts or national treasures.

8. Selling, bartering or exchanging any currency other than at the official host-nation exchange rate.

9. Adopting as pets or mascots, caring for, or feeding any type of domestic or wild animal.

10. Proselytizing of any religion, faith or practice.

11. Taking or retaining individual souvenirs or trophies. Explanation of this prohibition is as follows:

(1) Private or public property may be seized during exercises or operations only on order of the commander based on military necessity. Such property will be collected, processed, secured and stored for later return to the lawful owner. The wrongful taking private property, even temporarily, is a violation of Article 121, UCMJ;

(2) Public property seized by the U.S. Armed Forces is the property of the United States. the wrongful retention of such property is a violation of Article 108, UCMJ;

(3) No weapon, munitions, or military article of equipment obtained or acquired by any means other than official issue may be retained for personal use or shipped out of the JTF-SWA/USCENTAF (FWD) AOR for personal retention or control;

(4) This prohibition does not preclude the lawful acquisition of souvenirs that can be legally imported into the United States;

12. Attendance at host-nation public disciplinary proceedings of any kind including public executions.
Link Posted: 5/29/2008 10:27:44 AM EST

Originally Posted By BamaTrapper:

Originally Posted By Gravity_Tester:

Originally Posted By BamaTrapper:
More power to the Marines. God Bless them.


Yeah-because the way to win hearts and minds is to tell the populace that they're going to burn in hell.

I don't like it when the JWs come to my door-I'd probably be fucking furious if someone from another nation's military, in uniform and armed, handed me a note that had a verse from the Koran and a "Death to the infidels!" note on the back.


They wouldn't hand you a note. They would have a 12 year old kid saw your head off with a knife on videotape.

Given the track record of Islam, I fail to see how introducing Christian values would make the place worse. :)


Because introducing Christianity into the already unstable environment over here is going to cause more and more IEDS / EFPs to be placed on the roads, which puts mine, and my fellow soldiers who are over here at an even greater risk.


Link Posted: 5/29/2008 10:27:46 AM EST
In all fairness, the Bible is a Muslim holy book as well (it's just tainted by the Jews). They shouldn't be offended by verses from the Bible. Obviously, actual conversion attempts would be a problem. That's purely a one-way street.
Link Posted: 5/29/2008 10:32:01 AM EST
What an incredibly stupid thing to do.

I understand trying to "save" people, but 1) They are risking causing local tension, 2) Almost certainly going to cause regional tension, and 3) are preaching to the wrong choir.

Ugh.

- BG
Link Posted: 5/29/2008 10:34:19 AM EST
Hmmmm let's see. What can we possibly do to make the situation on the ground over there even worse... I know, let's go try to convert them all to a religion that they have sworn to destroy since AD100 or so. That's a fucking brilliant idea!

What a dumbass.
Link Posted: 5/29/2008 10:41:56 AM EST

Originally Posted By BamaTrapper:

Originally Posted By Gravity_Tester:

Originally Posted By BamaTrapper:
More power to the Marines. God Bless them.


Yeah-because the way to win hearts and minds is to tell the populace that they're going to burn in hell.

I don't like it when the JWs come to my door-I'd probably be fucking furious if someone from another nation's military, in uniform and armed, handed me a note that had a verse from the Koran and a "Death to the infidels!" note on the back.


They wouldn't hand you a note. They would have a 12 year old kid saw your head off with a knife on videotape.

Given the track record of Islam, I fail to see how introducing Christian values would make the place worse. :)




Newsflash-most people are annoyed by proselytising people of any stripe. It doesn't matter if you're hawking Jesus or global warming, the arrogance is astounding.
Link Posted: 5/29/2008 10:44:03 AM EST
This thread is destined for a lock as surely as those Marines are in for a serious asschewing and probably more.
Link Posted: 5/29/2008 11:04:06 AM EST
Although it would not surprise me that individual Marines or Soldiers might do something like that. It also would not surprise me that Al Qaeda or other Insurgent Groups might get hold of coins like those and spread them around to their sympathizers, to go and tell everyone that the US Forces are giving these out to everyone to incite more hatred for our troops.
Link Posted: 5/29/2008 11:06:47 AM EST
I'm glad to hear this.


Seeing men saved in Iraq is the ONLY way we'll ever see anything resembling long-term peace in the region.



Anybody got a link where we could send them some money to buy more tracts?


Link Posted: 5/29/2008 11:06:58 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/29/2008 11:11:04 AM EST by BadassWeakling]

Originally Posted By BamaTrapper:
More power to the Marines. God Bless them.


Yup, that's going to make our allies, and our allies to be reallly fucking happy.

I guess you are a proponent of the Ann Coulter version of counter insurgency. Kill as many of them as you can and convert the rest to Christianity

Link Posted: 5/29/2008 11:09:18 AM EST
I think it is stupid to do that anywhere, but doing it over there is a new level of dumb
Link Posted: 5/29/2008 11:13:24 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/29/2008 11:19:03 AM EST by Stlrain0341]
So is this like the Iraqi women who showed the "bullets" that hit her house?


If this is true, it should be real easy to prove. But it sounds to me like a bunch of bullshit they're using to garner anti-american support.


Link Posted: 5/29/2008 11:13:39 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/29/2008 4:28:20 PM EST by John_Wayne777]
<personal attack removed. Don't do it again. JW777>


Link Posted: 5/29/2008 11:14:25 AM EST

Originally Posted By fourteenpointfive:
I think it is stupid to do that anywhere, but doing it over there is a new level of dumb


+ 1.


Link Posted: 5/29/2008 11:15:24 AM EST

Originally Posted By scuba_ed:

Originally Posted By arowneragain:
I'm glad to hear this.


Seeing men saved in Iraq is the ONLY way we'll ever see anything resembling long-term peace in the region.



Anybody got a link where we could send them some money to buy more tracts?




Another imbecile chimes in.

Great.

And this is helping our mission and our troops in Iraq how?

Nice job, asshat!



ed,


Was that really necessary?


Link Posted: 5/29/2008 11:15:31 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/29/2008 11:17:00 AM EST by BadassWeakling]

Originally Posted By scuba_ed:

Originally Posted By arowneragain:
I'm glad to hear this.


Seeing men saved in Iraq is the ONLY way we'll ever see anything resembling long-term peace in the region.



Anybody got a link where we could send them some money to buy more tracts?




Another imbecile chimes in.

Great.

And this is helping our mission and our troops in Iraq how?

Nice job, asshat!




No personal attacks please.

And arowner, i don't see how turning Iraqis into christians will do jack shit, given that a good number of church going folk commit crimes too. Religion has nothing to do with anything, and in this case, will just antagonize the people we're trying to befriend and help.


Link Posted: 5/29/2008 11:16:59 AM EST
How reckless and stupid of some soldiers to pull this crap, there is already straining ties because they think we want to convert them. Now they really think that is our goal and the guys helping us might not want to anymore. The soldiers that did this should be punished because they know they shouldn't do it. The people over there need help that religion can't give them, obviously a lot of them took a peaceful religion and created suicide bombers and say it is ok. Well they could do the same with christianity just as easily.
Link Posted: 5/29/2008 11:19:29 AM EST

Originally Posted By pinpointshot:
How reckless and stupid of some soldiers to pull this crap, there is already straining ties because they think we want to convert them. Now they really think that is our goal and the guys helping us might not want to anymore. The soldiers that did this should be punished because they know they shouldn't do it. The people over there need help that religion can't give them, obviously a lot of them took a peaceful religion and created suicide bombers and say it is ok. Well they could do the same with christianity just as easily.


+1.


Link Posted: 5/29/2008 11:19:54 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/29/2008 11:20:27 AM EST

Originally Posted By BamaTrapper:
More power to the Marines. God Bless them.


+ Eleventy Billion Gazillion!!!
Link Posted: 5/29/2008 11:21:10 AM EST

Originally Posted By arowneragain:
I'm glad to hear this.


Seeing men saved in Iraq is the ONLY way we'll ever see anything resembling long-term peace in the region.



Anybody got a link where we could send them some money to buy more tracts?




www.notthatgreatofanideabutdon'tletthatstopyou.org
Link Posted: 5/29/2008 11:21:15 AM EST

Originally Posted By Gravity_Tester:

Originally Posted By BamaTrapper:
More power to the Marines. God Bless them.


Yeah-because the way to win hearts and minds is to tell the populace that they're going to burn in hell.

I don't like it when the JWs come to my door-I'd probably be fucking furious if someone from another nation's military, in uniform and armed, handed me a note that had a verse from the Koran and a "Death to the infidels!" note on the back.


oh for the love of.....

they aren't telling them that they're going to burn in hell.
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