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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/23/2005 8:20:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/23/2005 8:21:28 AM EDT by FightingHellfish]
If you had to choose between the two, which would you rather attend? Both add more of the always popular 'Army bling' so the course will have to stand on it's merit. I'm a 13F/11B in a duty MOS of 19D, next year I'll be switched around and be a 11B/13F in an 11B slot.

I'm leaning towards Sapper.

Also, anybody been to Designated Marksman Instructor Course?
Link Posted: 8/23/2005 12:26:41 PM EDT
BTT for another pass....
Link Posted: 8/23/2005 12:52:22 PM EDT
A few weeks ago I read a military-related blog saying that airborne school was a few days of instruction, a few hours of actual jumps, and about two weeks of harrassment. The point being the course was mostly a waste of time and that you learn a lot more in air assault school. People responding largely agreed.

Let me find it.................

Here it is

www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/11618

Link Posted: 8/23/2005 2:04:03 PM EDT
Sapper school.

It's far more unique and interesting, and, frankly, probably a lot more useful as well.

However, I've already got a set of jump wings, and disliked the experience enough that I have absolutely no desire to go to Airborne School, so I might be slightly biased there.

NTM
Link Posted: 8/23/2005 3:35:21 PM EDT
Sapper.

Airborne is :shrug:. No offense to current and former Airborne members here, of course. But it just doesnt have the same effect as it did in WW2 and somewhat Vietnam. It's a cool, high-speed unit but out of sync with today's wars.

Definitely Sapper.
Link Posted: 8/23/2005 4:50:43 PM EDT
Hellfish,
I thought you had to be an engineer to go to sappers school. Given the choice I'd pick sapper school learning to play with explosives sounds like a bunch of fun. Then again being a fister you've gotten to see plenty of explosions already. Sappers also get a tab instead of a badge=better bling.
Link Posted: 8/23/2005 4:53:11 PM EDT
Which MOS's can do sapper? I thought it was more of a combat engineer thing. Can 91W's(combat medics) do it?
Link Posted: 8/23/2005 4:59:39 PM EDT
Currently Sapper School is open to all MOSs, E-5 and above, E-4s on the promotion list, and O-3s and below on the officer side. Engineers, 11Bs, and 19Ds have priority over other MOSs.
Link Posted: 8/23/2005 5:00:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/23/2005 5:08:03 PM EDT by Dave_A]

Originally Posted By raven:
A few weeks ago I read a military-related blog saying that airborne school was a few days of instruction, a few hours of actual jumps, and about two weeks of harrassment. The point being the course was mostly a waste of time and that you learn a lot more in air assault school. People responding largely agreed.

Let me find it.................

Here it is

www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/11618




Jump school is literally across the street from me right now (1/507th PIR, (even though they're actually under 11th Infantry, along with OCS, IOBC, and a bunch of other stuff)...

It's 3 weeks of running around Ft Benning (heat cat permitting - too many folks have died on Benning due to heat this year, so they've been marching if it's HC 5), they run (er shuffle) to and from every training event in the first 2 weeks) at a 9min pace, in boots/BDUs/Kevlar...

Week 1 (Ground) you do extra PT (eg get smoked) IOT build up your legs & avoid injury (official 'reason') and learn how to fall
Week 2 (Tower) they have you jump out of towers to practice for week 3
Week 3 (Jump) you do the 5 jumps to get the jump wings

Or that's what I get from talking to the students (on the weekends, they eat in the OCS DFAC because theirs shuts down)

Given that the Army is letting anybody male take a shot at Ranger School now, I'd immagine Sapper is just about as open...

As for me, I'll probably pass on all the high-speed school stuff, unless I get stuffed with a RISTA or cav scout 1st assignment (assuming I make it thru OCS this time) where it would be more usefull - when I put 'Armor' as my first choice of branch, I was looking to get a goddamn TANK (speaking of which, ARFCOM needs a tank smilie)...
Link Posted: 8/23/2005 6:24:20 PM EDT
I went to Airborne. Unless you intend to make a career out of 82d or go LRSD, do Sapper instead. Falling out of the sky and landing on your ass/noggin is cool, but Sapper school will teach more practical stuff.
Link Posted: 8/23/2005 6:30:29 PM EDT
Are you the "Sapper" guy?

look...If you can get airborne, do it. I can only help. If you are 13 series, the Sapper...blah blah course will come up again.
Link Posted: 8/23/2005 6:38:00 PM EDT
Now that they let women into Sappper school it is a joke. It isn't even just for 12B combat engineers anymore. You don't have to have a combat mos, so what's the point. My friends who have been there are now authorized to wear the tab and wont because they are to embarrased to put it on. Go to Ranger school, or better yet go to Selection. Airborne is sort of fun. The PT is easy and you get a little more pay for being in an airborne unit.
Link Posted: 8/23/2005 6:44:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15:
Now that they let women into Sappper school it is a joke. It isn't even just for 12B combat engineers anymore. You don't have to have a combat mos, so what's the point. My friends who have been there are now authorized to wear the tab and wont because they are to embarrased to put it on. Go to Ranger school, or better yet go to Selection. Airborne is sort of fun. The PT is easy and you get a little more pay for being in an airborne unit.



They let women into airborne a long time ago.

That' why I give two craps less about a stupid badge.

I said it becasue the sissies at HQ cream themselves over a badge.

The measure of a soldier, or Marine, Airman, Or Sailor is what's IN his chest...Not what's ON it.
Link Posted: 8/23/2005 9:58:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/23/2005 10:00:55 PM EDT by ml271]
I would say airborne school , because no matter how much better or how much you learn from the other school you will still be a leg!

It also will open up some opportunity in the future to new stations that are airborne etc.

For anyone that served in the airborne in the military you will some what get looked down to as a leg.(Although they know there are good leg units)


(not trying to insult anyone , Im just showing the mentality of myself and other people I served with when I was young dumb and full of ...)
Link Posted: 8/23/2005 10:05:18 PM EDT
Getting the wings doesn't make you a Paratrooper, being a Paratrooper is a way of life. If you simply want the "bling", that's sad, regardless of which way you go. If you will not be filling an Airborne billet, and don't want to- don't waste the slot, leave it for somebody that wants to be a Paratrooper.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 4:14:58 AM EDT
I left home when I discovered my dear sainted Mother was a leg. My wife ain't.

Second generation PARATROOPER (jumpmaster and master paratrooper with over 200 jumps) here. And KNEESINTHEBREEZE is right. A basic parachutist's badge does not a paratrooper make - just as a SAPPER tab does not a SAPPER make. For that matter, Batboys point out that being Ranger qualified (going to and graduating from Ranger School which is a absolutely commendable feat) does not a Ranger make.

Your legness may vary.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 12:38:01 PM EDT
Just looked at the course description and sounds like a blast, bad pun intentional


"The Sapper Leader Course trains selected combat engineer unit leaders in leadership skills, combat engineer and infantry battle drills, and the specialized engineer and infantry techniques required to perform as members of a Sapper Battalion. The course is also designed to build cohesion and esprit de corps by training soldiers in troop leading procedures, demolitions (conventional and expedient), mountaineering operations, aerial operations, airborne operations, foreign weapons, land navigation, waterborne operations and contingency threat. The course culminates in an intense field training exercise that reinforces the use of the battle drills and specialized engineer techniques learned throughout the course."
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 12:44:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/24/2005 12:45:30 PM EDT by FightingHellfish]
Wow.

The responses to this thread really are interesting. Seemed to illicit some anger and irritation and even a little bit of teary-eyed hand wringing.

Maybe it's my fault, the reference to "the Army bling" factor being a wash in this case may have upset some people. I'm not interested in these schools just to earn a badge or tab, but anybody that thinks soldiers, including some high speed types, aren't attracted by badges and bling doesn't know the Army very well at all. Don't believe me? Look at the response that GEN Schoomaker got when he floated a trial balloon on reducing or eliminating badges. Notice that the ACU isn't very badge friendly? Watch to see them go away down the road.

Some others who responded in this thread seemed to think that perhaps I was a boot or recruit seeking career guidance, I'm not, I have more than 12 years active duty, all in infantry or FO assignments, currently I am assigned to a Scout Platoon because they are short handed, so I guess unofficially I've been a 19D as well. I've been on several deployments, I'm not a new kid to this, all though I appreciate the good intentions.

So, just to give you some more info, my unit is in a position to distribute some school quotas based on a Merit List compiled from APFT score, ruck march times, tactical performance; etc. I have a school slot available to me, the two I can choose from, that I haven't been to already, are Sapper or Airborne.

Sapper does seem to offer more "bang for the buck", but Airborne would open up more assignment options, and honestly, the "cool" factor of Airborne is appealing.

I think a smart guy would go Sapper, but I might take the Airborne anyway.


..and my other question, has anybody attended the Designated Marksman Instructor course, I'm slotted for that regardless, and I'm curious if anybody has any first hand input.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 12:49:15 PM EDT
I would go to sapper it will help you alot more than airborne.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 12:58:34 PM EDT
I dont know much about soldierin' but I do know a lot about jumpin'.

Airborne, all the way.
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 1:35:46 PM EDT
Considering I already have my Flying Snowcone, it's a no-brainer for me.

Sappers in the wire!
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 1:42:22 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 1:43:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Lightfighter:
Sappers chool is the most fun I had in the army. In hindsight.



LOL in hindsight, did somebody have alot of midnight mortar attacks???
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 1:46:30 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 1:47:31 PM EDT
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