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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/12/2002 8:14:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/12/2002 8:15:04 AM EDT by Benjamin0001]
WASHINGTON — An American soldier died of wounds received two weeks ago while hunting for Taliban and Al Qaeda fighters in Afghanistan, the Pentagon said Monday. Sgt. 1st Class Christopher James Speer, 28, of Albuquerque, N.M., was among five U.S. soldiers injured in an ambush on July 27 in the east of Afghanistan. He died Wednesday, a Department of Defense statement said. About 50 U.S. soldiers and allied Afghan militia were trying to confirm intelligence about an enemy operative in the area when they came under small-arms fire, commanders said at the time. Special Forces and conventional troops were flown to the fight after the ambush, putting a total of about 100 troops on the ground. Two Afghan militiamen also had been killed in the 4 1/2-hour gun battle in eastern Afghanistan during a search for Taliban and Al Qaeda fighters believed holed up in the lawless region. Speer had been evacuated to Germany for medical care. The other four soldiers' injuries were not life threatening and they were treated at the U.S. base at Bagram, Afghanistan. At least three of those who opened fire on the U.S. and Afghan troops from a mud-brick compound also were killed, officials say. The region is regarded as one of the most insecure areas of Afghanistan and forces of the U.S.-led coalition have repeatedly conducted operations there aimed at flushing out holdouts of the Taliban and Al Qaeda. Ten months after the start of the war to crush Usama bin Laden's Al Qaeda, U.S.-led coalition forces still hunt small and scattered pockets of the terrorist fighters as well as figures from the ousted Taliban regime. Speer was assigned to Headquarters U.S. Army Special Operations Command at Fort Bragg, N.C.
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God Bless. [USA]
Link Posted: 8/12/2002 9:04:30 AM EDT
[USA]
Link Posted: 8/12/2002 9:19:57 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/12/2002 9:28:25 AM EDT
Damn shame.
Link Posted: 8/12/2002 9:33:04 AM EDT
prayers sent! just another reason to continue kicking ass!
Link Posted: 8/12/2002 9:33:28 AM EDT
[USA]
Link Posted: 8/12/2002 9:58:18 AM EDT
Just like in "1984"--small units fighting in an unending war with minimal casualties. What a waste of a good man. The worst part is, I don't blame the Afghans for shooting at them--they are the invaders, don't forget. Would you do any less if the "Blue Helmets" were airlifted into your town?
Link Posted: 8/12/2002 11:07:55 AM EDT
[USA]
Link Posted: 8/12/2002 11:14:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/12/2002 12:15:43 PM EDT by toaster]
[V] My deepest sympathies to Sgt. 1st Class Christopher James Speer's family and friends. God rest his soul. [USA] [url=http://www.ngl.org/assets/multimedia/taps.rm]Taps[/url]
Link Posted: 8/12/2002 11:47:45 AM EDT
100 to one. That's the kill ratio we should be going after. For ever one we lose, we should see to it we take 100 of theirs. Even then it's still not equitable.
Link Posted: 8/12/2002 11:59:32 AM EDT
Originally Posted By trickshot: Just like in "1984"--small units fighting in an unending war with minimal casualties. What a waste of a good man. The worst part is, I don't blame the Afghans for shooting at them--they are the invaders, don't forget. Would you do any less if the "Blue Helmets" were airlifted into your town?
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WTF are you talking about??? We're not invading anything. We're killing the Taliban and moving on.
Link Posted: 8/12/2002 12:05:54 PM EDT
[USA]
Link Posted: 8/12/2002 12:07:20 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/12/2002 12:41:05 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Tondog:
Originally Posted By trickshot: Just like in "1984"--small units fighting in an unending war with minimal casualties. What a waste of a good man. The worst part is, I don't blame the Afghans for shooting at them--they are the invaders, don't forget. Would you do any less if the "Blue Helmets" were airlifted into your town?
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WTF are you talking about??? We're not invading anything. We're killing the Taliban and moving on.
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perhapse, but whose next? and next after that? when will they finally get to the dangerouse gun toteing "terrorists" here in america?? i think he has a small point here. not that it isn't sad to lose a soldier in action, but it is war.......
Link Posted: 8/12/2002 1:02:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/12/2002 2:51:38 PM EDT by JIMBEAM]
Originally Posted By trickshot: Just like in "1984"--small units fighting in an unending war with minimal casualties. What a waste of a good man. The worst part is, I don't blame the Afghans for shooting at them--they are the invaders, don't forget. Would you do any less if the "Blue Helmets" were airlifted into your town?
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WTF, your comparision doesn't make sense. These folks supported a group that openly declared war on us. I don't see how that compares to some off the wall comment about UN troop in the US.
Link Posted: 8/12/2002 2:27:52 PM EDT
Originally Posted By trickshot: Just like in "1984"--small units fighting in an unending war with minimal casualties. What a waste of a good man. The worst part is, I don't blame the Afghans for shooting at them--they are the invaders, don't forget. Would you do any less if the "Blue Helmets" were airlifted into your town?
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As much as i dont like the UN, i dont see how you could compare terrorists with UN peacekeepers. When have US citizens flown planes into a skyscraper on foreign soil?
Link Posted: 8/12/2002 2:31:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By trickshot: Just like in "1984"--small units fighting in an unending war with minimal casualties. What a waste of a good man. The worst part is, I don't blame the Afghans for shooting at them--they are the invaders, don't forget. Would you do any less if the "Blue Helmets" were airlifted into your town?
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trickshot, I don't know if I've told you this lately, but I don't want you to forget, so let me repeat it: you're a moron.
Link Posted: 8/12/2002 2:53:16 PM EDT
[USA]
Link Posted: 8/12/2002 3:20:25 PM EDT
Gentlemen, Correct me if I'm wrong, but the purpose of this thread was to honor the memory of a warrior who fought and died for his coutry and for the freedoms we all enjoy. Why must we desecrate his memory by turning this thread into another political mudfest? Why not start another thread to discuss the political aspects of the war on terror. Just my .02 cents. Rest in Peace Sgt. 1st Class Christopher James Speer. Your tour of duty is over...[USA]
Link Posted: 8/12/2002 3:36:45 PM EDT
Farewell, oh brave soldier, For the life you give shall not go in vain, Never have I been so proud, And yet so sorrowful. To you and yours, I say thank you. [USA] Hooah, Lead the way.
Link Posted: 8/12/2002 3:47:33 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Libertoon:
Originally Posted By trickshot: Just like in "1984"--small units fighting in an unending war with minimal casualties. What a waste of a good man. The worst part is, I don't blame the Afghans for shooting at them--they are the invaders, don't forget. Would you do any less if the "Blue Helmets" were airlifted into your town?
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As much as i dont like the UN, i dont see how you could compare terrorists with UN peacekeepers. When have US citizens flown planes into a skyscraper on foreign soil?
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When have Afghan citizens done it ????
Link Posted: 8/12/2002 5:01:48 PM EDT
Originally Posted By liberty86:
Originally Posted By Libertoon:
Originally Posted By trickshot: Just like in "1984"--small units fighting in an unending war with minimal casualties. What a waste of a good man. The worst part is, I don't blame the Afghans for shooting at them--they are the invaders, don't forget. Would you do any less if the "Blue Helmets" were airlifted into your town?
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As much as i dont like the UN, i dont see how you could compare terrorists with UN peacekeepers. When have US citizens flown planes into a skyscraper on foreign soil?
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When have Afghan citizens done it ????
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You can't be that dense. Osama Bin Laden and others of the group that planned the attacks were being given refuge by the Taliban government. They were given every chance to turn him over and refused. I know this was several months ago, but I am surprised you've already forgotten.
Link Posted: 8/12/2002 5:07:13 PM EDT
[usa]
Link Posted: 8/12/2002 5:29:38 PM EDT
Originally Posted By JIMBEAM:
Originally Posted By trickshot: Just like in "1984"--small units fighting in an unending war with minimal casualties. What a waste of a good man. The worst part is, I don't blame the Afghans for shooting at them--they are the invaders, don't forget. Would you do any less if the "Blue Helmets" were airlifted into your town?
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WTF, your comparision doesn't make sense. These folks supported a group that openly declared war on us. I don't see how that compares to some off the wall comment about UN troop in the US.
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Sure it makes sense. It IS possible that many Afgans hate both the Taliban AND foreign troops on their soil. How can you POSSIBLY know that the men who opened fire "supported a group that openly declared war on us." Not only do you not know that for certain, but you can't know that. I'm not saying I agree with his statements, just that they are not "off the wall". Heck, maybe these were just some guys who were still pissed off that all their relatives were killed last month at that wedding.
Link Posted: 8/12/2002 11:58:29 PM EDT
[USA]
Link Posted: 8/13/2002 2:32:21 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Belloc: Sure it makes sense. It IS possible that many Afgans hate both the Taliban AND foreign troops on their soil. How can you POSSIBLY know that the men who opened fire "supported a group that openly declared war on us." Not only do you not know that for certain, but you can't know that.
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Uh - WAKE UP! Middle of nowhere - in the mountains = not exactly a peaceful village. Also note: They were on patrol WITH AFGHANI MILITIAMEN!! There is a BIG difference between actions on the ground with infantry and the actions of air force Jet Jockeys that often can;t tell hostile fire from a bad case of gas. Also, the Taliban, especially Al Queada - are primarily foreigners - mostly Arabs (for those that need to have this pointed out - Afghanistanis are NOT Arabs). The Taliban were an occupying, invading force. Now please remove your head fom your nether regions - it smells better out here. Those aren't black helicopters you are seeing - they are dingleberries!
Link Posted: 8/13/2002 10:50:59 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Adam_White: [b]Middle of nowhere - in the mountains = not exactly a peaceful village.[/b] Hey dumba$$, half the damn country lives out in the middle of nowhere. [b]Also note: They were on patrol WITH AFGHANI MILITIAMEN!! There is a BIG difference between actions on the ground with infantry and the actions of air force Jet Jockeys that often can;t tell hostile fire from a bad case of gas.[/b] Nothing you said here in ANY way refutes that fact that there may exist Afganis who do not like the Taliban and the idea of foreign troops. [b]Also, the Taliban, especially Al Queada - are primarily foreigners - mostly Arabs (for those that need to have this pointed out - Afghanistanis are NOT Arabs). The Taliban were an occupying, invading force.[/b] Yeah, no $hit. This STILL does not in any way refute the fact that it is possible that those who opened fire were NOT Taliban. For the record I think they most likely were, I also think it more than a little possible that they were not. Either way, since they DID open fire on U.S. troops they deserved to get mowed down. However, even with THAT said, it is STILL possible that they were just Afganis who think they are defending their "homeland" against foreigners. [b]Now please remove your head fom your nether regions - it smells better out here. Those aren't black helicopters you are seeing - they are dingleberries![/b] Cleary you know this from experience.
Link Posted: 8/13/2002 10:53:22 AM EDT
[usa] TAPS...........
Link Posted: 8/13/2002 4:14:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/13/2002 4:19:47 PM EDT by Adam_White]
Originally Posted By Belloc: Originally Posted By Adam_White: Me: [b]Middle of nowhere - in the mountains = not exactly a peaceful village.[/b] You: Hey dumba$$, half the damn country lives out in the middle of nowhere.
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actually, no: with the exception of nomadic peoples (and we ain't dealing with that part of the world) people tend to settle in villages - generally near sources of water. This is a rather universal truth of human existence. Al Queada and Taliban fighters have been holding out in extremely inhospitable mountainous regions - very rarely in villages friendly to there cause (though I don't doubt they get some support in some places). BTW, fell free to give me a call at 82-11-9680-3031 and we can discuss this name calling directly.
Me: [b]Also note: They were on patrol WITH AFGHANI MILITIAMEN!! There is a BIG difference between actions on the ground with infantry and the actions of air force Jet Jockeys that often can;t tell hostile fire from a bad case of gas.[/b] You: Nothing you said here in ANY way refutes that fact that there may exist Afganis who do not like the Taliban and the idea of foreign troops.
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Me: [b]Also, the Taliban, especially Al Queada - are primarily foreigners - mostly Arabs (for those that need to have this pointed out - Afghanistanis are NOT Arabs). The Taliban were an occupying, invading force.[/b] You: Yeah, no $hit. This STILL does not in any way refute the fact that it is possible that those who opened fire were NOT Taliban. For the record I think they most likely were, I also think it more than a little possible that they were not. Either way, since they DID open fire on U.S. troops they deserved to get mowed down. However, even with THAT said, it is STILL possible that they were just Afganis who think they are defending their "homeland" against foreigners.
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Anything is possible - but where does that put you in a position to play "everything the govt. does is evil and repressive" on a thread meant do honor a slain warrior? I call it bad taste and highly inappropriate.
Me: [b]Now please remove your head fom your nether regions - it smells better out here. Those aren't black helicopters you are seeing - they are dingleberries![/b] You: Cleary you know this from experience.
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Actually, I haven't had the opportunity to stick my head up your ass - though in the thread you posted you were definitely showing it clearly enough to where I could get a good idea of what to expect.
Link Posted: 8/13/2002 9:00:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/13/2002 9:02:34 PM EDT by Belloc]
Originally Posted By Adam_White: [b]actually, no: with the exception of nomadic peoples (and we ain't dealing with that part of the world) people tend to settle in villages - generally near sources of water.[/b] Actaully, your half wrong, which means you have shown improvment. In every culture, especially in "that part of the world", there are in fact many who live out and away from the main villages. [b]This is a rather universal truth of human existence. Al Queada and Taliban fighters have been holding out in extremely inhospitable mountainous regions - very rarely in villages friendly to there cause (though I don't doubt they get some support in some places).[/b] Once again, this STILL does not preclude the possibility that they were not Taliban. Are you really this stupid? [b]BTW, fell free to give me a call at 82-11-9680-3031 and we can discuss this name calling directly.[/b] Well, we know that you're not in America since all I got was "please check the number and dial again." [b]Anything is possible - but where does that put you in a position to play "everything the govt. does is evil and repressive" on a thread meant do honor a slain warrior? I call it bad taste and highly inappropriate.[/b] I would call you a loon of the highest order. All I said was that JIMBEAM's comment that someone elses post "does not make sense" was perhaps wrong if certain variables I have already mentioned are in fact true. How you drew from that "everything the govt. does is evil and repressive" is something you and your psychoanalyst will have to discuss.
Link Posted: 8/13/2002 11:49:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/13/2002 11:50:21 PM EDT by QBit]
Hey, let me post one of those too! [usa] Yeah! Bring our soldiers home and let the world burn.
Link Posted: 8/14/2002 1:25:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/14/2002 1:27:25 AM EDT by Adam_White]
Belloc: To use the words so eloquently expressed by RikWriter to Trickshot, "You're a moron" To clarify all of this mess: Trickshot stated that “The worst part is, I don't blame the Afghans for shooting at them--they are the invaders, don't forget. Would you do any less if the "Blue Helmets" were airlifted into your town? To which JIMBEAM replied, “WTF, your comparison doesn't make sense. These folks supported a group that openly declared war on us. I don't see how that compares to some off the wall comment about UN troop in the US” At this point, you chimed in with, “sure it makes sense…” What, exactly, made sense? – I already explained to you that the TALIBAN and Al QUAEDA were the invaders. Trickshot made it sound as if they were native to that region – and the US was some invading force (drawing parallels to a UN invasion of the US). Yet, when I point this out – you say, “no shit” – as if that is irrelevant!! I think this is very relevant. Trickshot referred to the shooters as “Afghans” – yet the only “Afghanis” or Afghans” or however you spell it that were mentioned in the article were the two soldiers killed along with SFC Speer in the ambush. The nationality of the shooters was not stated, and there is no evidence to support them being innocent villagers and much evidence to the contrary. Now, you have US and AFGHAN troops patrolling an area where the enemy is known to be held out – the group that has “taken to the hills” as they say and switched into guerrilla mode. Someone takes some pot shots at a patrol and three soldiers are killed. AND YOU HAVE THE GALL TO ACT AS IF THIS WAS DESERVED!! TO INSINUATE THAT THOSE MURDERERS WERE JUST AS LIKELY INNOCENT VILLAGERS DEFENDING THEIR HOMELAND!! WTF?? WHERE IS THE LOGIC! The only logic could be that in the mind of your typical knee-jerk anti-government tinfoil type (not to insult the poster with such a name [:)]). Of course, you also resort to name calling – and think that a 12-digit number is a domestic US call (and obviously can’t read the location under my name to the left). Thus, I realize I am in a battle of wits with an unarmed man. The only rational thing now for me to do is to step down, apologize to the other readers here for adding to the hijacking of a thread meant to honor a slain warrior, and let you keep showing your ass to the world. SFC Speer, two unnamed Afghan militiamen: You will be missed – and you did not die in vain. Adam
Link Posted: 8/14/2002 5:46:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/14/2002 5:48:30 AM EDT by Belloc]
Originally Posted By Adam_White: [b]Belloc: To use the words so eloquently expressed by RikWriter to Trickshot, "You're a moron"[/b] Trickshot may be a moron, but it still does not change the fact that Afganis were fighting Afganis long before the Taliban showed up, and they will be fighting each other long after the Taliban are gone. [b]Trickshot stated that “The worst part is, I don't blame the Afghans for shooting at them--they are the invaders, don't forget. Would you do any less if the "Blue Helmets" were airlifted into your town? To which JIMBEAM replied, “WTF, your comparison doesn't make sense. These folks supported a group that openly declared war on us. I don't see how that compares to some off the wall comment about UN troop in the US”[/b] Yep, you really are just that stupid. JIMBEAM can only speculate that the people who opened fire were Taliban. And I already opined that I think in fact they were. However, as stupid as Trickshot's words were, (are you two brothers seperated at birth?) it does not change the fact that the possibility exists that since both the Taliban AND American troops are in fact foreigners, there most certainly exists factions of Afganis that want to see all foreigners off their soil. An Afgani "Boxer Rebellion" if you will. Were these them, most likely not. But could it have been them? No one has provided evidence to conclusivly rule out the possiblity. Do many Afganis live far outside villages? Yes. In the course of this war is it probable that U.S. troops may come across some Afganis that want them out as much as they want the Taliban out? Yes. Would the feelings of these Afganis have, in respect to foreign troops on their soil, be shared by Americans if foreign troops were fighting on our soil even if it were against a common foe? Yes again. [b]Now, you have US and AFGHAN troops patrolling an area where the enemy is known to be held out –[/b] Yes and as has been demonstrated in Vietnam, Iraq and Bonsia, enemy troops very often hang around, mix in, and stay close, to civilians. The US had terrible bombing results in Bonsia for this reason. It's a tactic that proves effective. [b]the group that has “taken to the hills” as they say and switched into guerrilla mode. Someone takes some pot shots at a patrol and three soldiers are killed. AND YOU HAVE THE GALL TO ACT AS IF THIS WAS DESERVED!![/b] No jackass. I said that those doing the shooting might not have been taliban and that if that is the case those who opened fire might have done so because they hate ALL foreign troops and that this is a sentiment not beyond American comprehension. I already stated that since they opened fire on our boys, whomever they were, they deserved to get mowed down. [b]TO INSINUATE THAT THOSE MURDERERS WERE JUST AS LIKELY INNOCENT VILLAGERS DEFENDING THEIR HOMELAND!! WTF?? WHERE IS THE LOGIC! The only logic could be that in the mind of your typical knee-jerk anti-government tinfoil type.[/b] To say that there is no way, that there is 0% possility that they were not Taliban is to subordinate reason and logic to emotion and sentiment. [b]Of course, you also resort to name calling – and think that a 12-digit number is a domestic US call (and obviously can’t read the location under my name to the left).[/b] Obviously I don't give a rat's ass to bother jagoff. [b]Thus, I realize I am in a battle of wits with an unarmed man.[/b] What, are you mentally shadow boxing or something?
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