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Posted: 7/2/2002 9:20:03 AM EST
Based on a discussion in another thread, I'd like to see what the view here is on letting the assault weapons ban sunset vs. renewing it. As we all know, the assault weapons law passed in 1994 will sunset shortly unless congress and the president enact a new one. From my perspective, it seems contrary to my interest to let it sunset as I have 2 bushmaster prebans. With a preban worth $1500-$2K and up, I have no interest in ending the very law that creates the artificial shortage and corresponding pricing, immediately causing the value of a cherry preban specimen to fall below the value of a newly made rifle. What does the board think? Let it sunset? Renew the crime bill?
Link Posted: 7/2/2002 9:24:02 AM EST
Link Posted: 7/2/2002 9:26:06 AM EST
I would much rather see the ban sunset and thereafter be able to buy the guns I want the way I want, with all the evil features and hi-cap mags I want. I have several pre-ban goodies, and I would happily see them lose their value in order for my freedoms to be restored. In a heartbeat...
Link Posted: 7/2/2002 9:26:12 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/2/2002 9:27:04 AM EST by sloth]
not to be rude...but that really is the wrong attitude to have. is your grand or so investment worth the existence of a law weighing on the second amendment. i rarely flame anyone, i'm a nice guy...but i think you need to quite thinking so much about your material investment and more about your constitutional rights. if you want to invest, buy gold don't bet against our rights. sloth
Link Posted: 7/2/2002 9:26:28 AM EST
Ban, ban, go away. I would like to put a real flash hider on my Bushy. Also, cheaper mags would be nice. It's nice to dream.
Link Posted: 7/2/2002 9:26:33 AM EST
Screw you. [;)] I paid $1200 for my pre-ban, but I use it as a shooter. I want more (2 or three more].
Link Posted: 7/2/2002 9:28:11 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/2/2002 9:33:20 AM EST by cyrax777]
[:K]
Link Posted: 7/2/2002 9:30:37 AM EST
I have to say it, too. You're kidding, right? You'd put your own financial interests over the freedom of your fellow countrymen? Losing money shouldn't even be a consideration. If it is, then it's really petty.
Link Posted: 7/2/2002 9:32:01 AM EST
agreed. [troll] Take your 2000 dollar preban and go home.
Link Posted: 7/2/2002 9:34:19 AM EST
Hell..there's a guy who hangs out on HKPRO who is just dying for the .gov to disallow any more suppressors so his Knight's can will skyrocket in value. I just want to kick his ass every time I see him say that.
Link Posted: 7/2/2002 9:36:14 AM EST
Well, as I don't sell my guns or mags (I keep them, that's why I bought them) I have nothing to gain and things to lose by keeping the ban around.
Link Posted: 7/2/2002 9:36:19 AM EST
Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen: Based on a discussion in another thread, I'd like to see what the view here is on letting the assault weapons ban sunset vs. renewing it. As we all know, the assault weapons law passed in 1994 will sunset shortly unless congress and the president enact a new one. From my perspective, it seems contrary to my interest to let it sunset as I have 2 bushmaster prebans. With a preban worth $1500-$2K and up, I have no interest in ending the very law that creates the artificial shortage and corresponding pricing, immediately causing the value of a cherry preban specimen to fall below the value of a newly made rifle. What does the board think? Let it sunset? Renew the crime bill?
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I too have a lot of $ invested in pre-bans. I hate restrictive laws that are unconstitutional, so i would like too see the ban sunset. Some guns will probably retain their values. HK91's & such are not made anymore & the recent availability of clones for under $500 does'nt seem to have hurt prices of the originals very much. Being able too afford mags again would be nice.
Link Posted: 7/2/2002 9:37:55 AM EST
This is hard for me to respond to, because I don't have anything nice to say to Phil_A_Steen. He should be happy that he even has an AR. My first one is still on my wishlist. I guess that I can say to him: Phhhbt!
Link Posted: 7/2/2002 9:43:38 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/2/2002 9:49:33 AM EST by cluster]
I say " LET IT SUNSET.." does it really suprise anyone that this topic was brought up? In a world were it is harder and harder for a privite FFL to make a living because something can be bought for .99 cents cheaper online.. hitting the wallet WILL be a dividing factor in this issue.. I believe the same guy that that logs on here and Chats.. "LET IT SUNSET!!...LET IT SUNSET!!...".. will not do to much in support when he/she sees thier investment go down the drain.. I am not saying they will try to do something to harm our goal.. just that they will have nothing to do with furthering our cause..
Link Posted: 7/2/2002 9:47:34 AM EST
Those of us that held out and paid postban prices for our preban goodies say: GOOOOOOOOOOOBYE BAN. Like that's ever going to be allowed to stand. Yes, I know the ban WILL sunset, but I expect something more permanent and probably worse to replace it. Just my very pessimistic .223 worth. Pit
Link Posted: 7/2/2002 9:51:08 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/2/2002 9:52:50 AM EST by edpmedic]
Well Phil you kid of have a point, how much did you pay for it to start with. We all wish our possessions would increase in value. I think about the cars I have owned and wish I had put them away. It comes down to YOU will not be able to buy anything else unless your rich. All you can do is look at your investment, and not enjoy it if you want it to retain the value. Now just think besides those AR's which you might be able to own. Wouldn't you like to see a gun drop from $5000 down to $1000 and buy one? How about a couple of C-Mags for $100 in stead of one for $500 or more. There are more than just the value of a gun going down. I haven't even hit upon your 2nd Amendment rights. What I think you should do is go out and shoot that baby. Put it through it's paces and see if you want another and willing to pay $2000,00 for a $900.00 rifle.
Link Posted: 7/2/2002 9:52:51 AM EST
I want all "assault weapons" to be as cheap as possible. $8 each suits me. (and I own prebans)
Link Posted: 7/2/2002 9:53:15 AM EST
Nice attitude. Lots of people with CLASS III weapons with thousands invested wish the 86 ban would go away. They would end up loosing thousands of dollars and even though that would suck, they would gladly "suffer." Why? Well they would be able to get newer FA weapons for a cheaper cost. Let all ban's expire.
Link Posted: 7/2/2002 9:54:08 AM EST
Link Posted: 7/2/2002 9:57:40 AM EST
IGM = I Got Mine Greedy b*st*rd. It will sunset as required by law. Then it will MOST LIKELY be replaced with a more comprehensive ban. They have had ten years to see how we respond. They can now fine tune the new ban to encompass all of the "loopholes" that evil gun owners have devised in order to circumvent the intent of the 1994 ban. Don't worry, your investment is safe. At least until they put into effect the California version of the ban which makes it illegal to sell, transfer or leave to your heirs any AR/AK series of rifles. Then you are screwed.
Link Posted: 7/2/2002 9:58:31 AM EST
Hold on to your pre-bans. Hold on to your post-bans. Do you really think that the sunset will last forever? As soon as they can, AND IF THEY DON'T DO IT BEFORE SUNSET, they will enact another, probably STRICTER set of laws. Even IF it sunsets without a problem and stays that way for awhile, your guns will STILL be worth a few bucks. I think pre-bans will STILL go for a decent price. Think of the future.
Link Posted: 7/2/2002 10:00:57 AM EST
What CK said. lol
Link Posted: 7/2/2002 10:03:31 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/2/2002 9:21:30 PM EST by gunham]
You guys that look at this from the dollar issue make me sick. Guns are machines and machines eventually wear out and break. The purpose behind the ban was to get rid of the supply of guns and it will eventually work if this bill does not expire. Modified because of misunderstanding: I want to be able to replace my guns when they wear out without taking away someone else's gun. Sorry, I was in a hurry when I wrote the original post. I was just concerned that people were missing the bigger picture in that guns may not be available in the future because of bans like this.
Link Posted: 7/2/2002 10:06:25 AM EST
Link Posted: 7/2/2002 10:06:57 AM EST
10 bucks says CNN finds a "GUNOWNER" just like this one to interview near the end. CNN: See Soccer Moms of America even a AR15 owner agrees to the ban !!.. Back to you talking head....
Link Posted: 7/2/2002 10:10:17 AM EST
Originally Posted By 7: Nice attitude. Lots of people with CLASS III weapons with thousands invested wish the 86 ban would go away. They would end up loosing thousands of dollars and even though that would suck, they would gladly "suffer." Why? Well they would be able to get newer FA weapons for a cheaper cost.
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And there are a bunch who think like this guy does. Hey, dude, it's not my fault if you paid $20,000 for a Colt M16. If you can't afford to pay, don't play. This stuff isn't an INVESTMENT, it's the FREEDOM, ASSHOLE!
Link Posted: 7/2/2002 10:10:56 AM EST
Originally Posted By 7: Let all ban's expire.
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That's it!!!! BAN ALL BANS!!!!!!Oh wait..did I say that?[whacko]
Link Posted: 7/2/2002 10:12:22 AM EST
Phil - Let me interpret what you are reading here FOR you (since I've seen your posts before, and anti gunnerz almost ALWAYS mis-read these things) [b]We here at this site (really gun owners in general) care MORE about freedom, liberty, the future of our nation, adherence to and support of the Constitution than our own personal wealth. Let my entire invenstment of firearms be worth 10% of their purchase price (that would be a five figure loss for many of us) if it means liberty and the Constitutional right to keep and bear ALL arms (including full auto) is increased in this great land of ours. "They pledged their lives, their fortunes, their sacred honor...."
Link Posted: 7/2/2002 10:15:13 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/2/2002 10:20:00 AM EST by drfcolt]
Get rid of the ban!!!!!!!!! If you want to invest in firearms, get some NFA stuff. If your state doesn't allow or your CLEO won't sign-off on NFA stuff, there's other collectables such as WWI/II stuff (Garands, 1911's, ...). Whether a gun is allowed to have a bayo-lug or flash-hider should not be a factor in collectability when the design of the correspinding post-ban is no different. There will still be collectable AR's. There will never be any more SP1's made. You will never see another Colt marked "AR-15 A-2" again for the general public. Colt just won't do it and other companies can't since it's Colt's registered trade-mark.
Link Posted: 7/2/2002 10:15:18 AM EST
Let it sunset! I wouldn't blink if my prebans halved in value overnight if it meant I could snatch up as many newly non-evil rifles that I could get my hands on. Think about it, it sunsets, we buy our entire wishlist, a dimocrat comes in and places a new ban and we're still ahead. Yep.
Link Posted: 7/2/2002 10:15:43 AM EST
I hope you didnt waste much time thinking this thread and making the poll for such a silly question . O hell what am i even doing here ? bye
Link Posted: 7/2/2002 10:17:51 AM EST
This is just MNSHO, okay? If you think about weapon laws in terms of how they're going to affect your 'investment', then YOU'RE an ASSHOLE! IMHO. YMMV. Q(DisgustedAsHell)S
Link Posted: 7/2/2002 10:18:01 AM EST
Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen: Based on a discussion in another thread, I'd like to see what the view here is on letting the assault weapons ban sunset vs. renewing it. As we all know, the assault weapons law passed in 1994 will sunset shortly unless congress and the president enact a new one. From my perspective, it seems contrary to my interest to let it sunset as I have 2 bushmaster prebans. With a preban worth $1500-$2K and up, I have no interest in ending the very law that creates the artificial shortage and corresponding pricing, immediately causing the value of a cherry preban specimen to fall below the value of a newly made rifle. What does the board think? Let it sunset? Renew the crime bill?
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i dont see it as a investment of the firearm. its about freedom not money.
Link Posted: 7/2/2002 10:22:29 AM EST
That is tough. If it sets then for a limited time we will all be happy, [b]BUT[/b] the AW ban has accomplished what they set out to do so if it sunsets then they may and I believe will implement a worse bill to replace it. Get ready to kiss allot of your freedoms away people. The Homeland Defense Dept. is going to be coming for you.......
Link Posted: 7/2/2002 10:23:38 AM EST
Link Posted: 7/2/2002 10:25:45 AM EST
OK, I am guilty in the post -- I was just playing a little devil's advocate as I have done in other posts before. I wanted to hear what you guys had to say. The view I espoused in the initial post is actually one that I have heard quite often in the context of NFA collecting. The attitude is people with NFA guns don't want any more made, so it's unfortunate for you if you don't have any. Selfish. I personally would be very happy to lose the value of each of my Bushie's if I could buy more. I think banning a flash hider or a bayonet lug is nonsense. I would love to have six or seven ARs (and other assorted forbidden weapons). One of the problems I hear in this thread is the theme that the AWB tramples our constitutional rights, but it doesn't seem that the Supreme Court or any other authority is really taking that position. Has there ever been a legal challenge of the 94 AWB? (btw, I paid postban prices on each of my Bushies.)
Link Posted: 7/2/2002 10:26:25 AM EST
You are one selfish bastard Phil_A_Steen! No wonder we are loosing the battle with idiots like you on our side. You are on our side are'nt you???
Link Posted: 7/2/2002 10:27:19 AM EST
Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen: OK, I am guilty in the post -- I was just playing a little devil's advocate as I have done in other posts before. I wanted to hear what you guys had to say. The view I espoused in the initial post is actually one that I have heard quite often in the context of NFA collecting. The attitude is people with NFA guns don't want any more made, so it's unfortunate for you if you don't have any. Selfish.
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Definitely a NFA-user problem.
Link Posted: 7/2/2002 10:37:22 AM EST
A man's principles have got to be worth more then a few thousand dollars.
Link Posted: 7/2/2002 10:43:09 AM EST
I invested in my firearms for 1 simple reason, FREEDOM! If you want to invest your money into something with hopes of a profit, theres plenty other options for you that wont have the bottom ripped out of it on a predetermined date! I didnt buy it(handgun, rifle, etc) for a monetary gain. Those who do are kidding themselves. Price gouging is rampant on pre ban stuff. You mean to tell me that paying $2000 for a PWA rifle that looks like it was driven over by a truck is worth it just because of when it was made? Horsepucky! My postban Bushmaster will blow it away anyway!And for a lot less!I hope the ban sunsets, so the market becomes realisticly priced again. Example, my wife collects Barbie dolls. When the tattoo Barbie came out, they banned that doll, because somebody complained it wasnt good for the children, etc..(liberal BS personally) My wife went out of her way to make sure she had one in her collection. She spent well over what the doll was really worth, just to have the doll renamed and the ban lifted and its not worth squat now. Get the picture? You're buying firearms as an investment? You're investing,I.E. taking a chance that you'll make money or lose money. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. Thats the bounce of the ball. Personally I dont care how much money I lose, as long as my rights are restored. To me, that would be a worthwhile investment for us all.
Link Posted: 7/2/2002 10:43:21 AM EST
Originally Posted By Philadelphia_GunMan: A man's principles have got to be worth more then a few thousand dollars.
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AT a few hundred thoudsand, tho, we're open for negotiation. At a few hundred million, we're havin' a freakin' garage sale!!!!!! j/k [:D]
Link Posted: 7/2/2002 10:45:00 AM EST
No ban. Kill it. The ban has raised the stakes of the game and will continue to push price increases onto the market. The macroeconomic view of this has already peaked with guns no longer being a great American pastime. Only the most dedicated shooters who sacrifice other things to afford to shoot and the already rich are able to pay the prices. This diminishing effect is just as dangerous since it takes the guns out of the hands of the common (read that working) class. That is the ultimate goal of the antis and in a way, they have already accomplished disarmament. I'd like to see some eccentric, rich Mofo like Malcom Forbes leave his money in trust to buy guns for working folks in a lottery system. That would be cool.
Link Posted: 7/2/2002 10:52:12 AM EST
I hope it sunsets, since we all know that the "Post Bans" will then become the collectable! These guns will be remembered as the guns that were made when America tried to unmake itself.
Link Posted: 7/2/2002 10:59:08 AM EST
Hey you guys I have known Phil_a_steen for 10 years now and he is not as bad as this thread makes him seem. He is a sh*t starter! He loves to bait everyone to see if he can get a good topic blazing and he has!! Take him with a grain of salt and life will be better for all involved!
Link Posted: 7/2/2002 11:00:32 AM EST
Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen: OK, I am guilty in the post -- I was just playing a little devil's advocate as I have done in other posts before. I wanted to hear what you guys had to say. The view I espoused in the initial post is actually one that I have heard quite often in the context of NFA collecting. The attitude is people with NFA guns don't want any more made, so it's unfortunate for you if you don't have any. Selfish.
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Phil I don't know where you get that about NFA owners. Of all the NFA owners I know, every single one would be happy as hell to see the '86 ban come down even if it meant losing 95% of the value of their collection. And this isn't just guys with a MAC or an M16 - this includes guys with $50k, $100k, $200k and more tied up in transferables.
Link Posted: 7/2/2002 11:02:33 AM EST
Personally, I think Phil is a a first class ***hole with his reamrk. I would lose more that you in gun and mag values but I would not care a bit. You see, I actually like to shoot my guns and don't care about their value. I don't put them in the back of my safe as an investment. If I wanted to buy stuff to look at I would be collecting stamps. It is bad enough that we are being forced to follow an unconstitutional law. Too bad people like you have no values and character. I noticed you are from NY. You fit the stereotype of the NY mindset. Why don't you give the congressman and senators that gave us this turd a big kiss on the ass while you are at it.
Link Posted: 7/2/2002 11:07:52 AM EST
How about this: I'll give you $1000 for your freedom of speach. Heck, I'll through in another grand for your freedom of religion. Guess everything has it's price, and it appears as though a few grand is all that your freedoms (every alst one of them) being protected by your RKBA are worth. I mean, the RKBA is the only REAL power the people have to keept he gov. in check. With out that, we REALLY have no way to stop them from stomping on every other right, do we? I mean, sure, you can vote, but with no RKBA, your vote won't mean a thing. We could vote 100% agaist a law, and they could pass it. -What will you do? Protest? Ultimate power leads to ultimate corruption (not that histWWIIory indicates that. . .) Hey, your not talking about selling the whole 2nd though are you? Just a little part. And you KNOW there is NO slippery slope. The '34, '86, '89, '94,bans/laws clearly indicate that is not the case. -Justin P.S. How much for your soul? -Nevermind, prob. not worth a dime after you've sold your rights. P.P.S. If you are in fact playing D.A., nothing personal.
Link Posted: 7/2/2002 11:10:07 AM EST
Originally Posted By jarrett: Hey you guys I have known Phil_a_steen for 10 years now and he is not as bad as this thread makes him seem.
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Well his posts here make him out to be just a plain dumbass shit-starter [:K]
Originally Posted By jarrett: He is a sh*t starter! He loves to bait everyone to see if he can get a good topic blazing and he has!!
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Yeah, that's what everyone has been saying for two pages. He's a plain dumbass shit-starter [:K] BTW [b]Phul-o-shit-[/b], the AW ban WILL sunset - it can't be stopped from sunsetting. The real question is whether there'll be another PERMANENT ban to replace it.
Link Posted: 7/2/2002 11:10:33 AM EST
Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen: OK, I am guilty in the post -- I was just playing a little devil's advocate as I have done in other posts before. I wanted to hear what you guys had to say. The view I espoused in the initial post is actually one that I have heard quite often in the context of NFA collecting. The attitude is people with NFA guns don't want any more made, so it's unfortunate for you if you don't have any. Selfish. I personally would be very happy to lose the value of each of my Bushie's if I could buy more. I think banning a flash hider or a bayonet lug is nonsense. I would love to have six or seven ARs (and other assorted weapons). One of the problems I hear in this thread is the theme that the AWB tramples our constitutional rights, but it doesn't seem that the Supreme Court or any other authority is really taking that position. Has there ever been a legal challenge of the 94 AWB? (btw, I paid postban prices on each of my Bushies.)
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devils advocate my A$$. now your just trying to make up.....veee see vight through ver tricks!
Link Posted: 7/2/2002 11:11:22 AM EST
Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen: I personally would be very happy to lose the value of each of my Bushie's if I could buy more. I think banning a flash hider or a bayonet lug is nonsense. I would love to have six or seven ARs (and other assorted forbidden weapons). One of the problems I hear in this thread is the theme that the AWB tramples our constitutional rights, but it doesn't seem that the Supreme Court or any other authority is really taking that position. Has there ever been a legal challenge of the 94 AWB? (btw, I paid postban prices on each of my Bushies.)
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Dude, you're doing some major back-peddling here. I've read your posts before regarding the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994 (it's not just an AW ban) and I never once got the impression that you were against it. The current ban will sunset. It was mainly just another government pork product of the Clinton administration. The "assault weapons" and "large capacity ammunition feeding devices" part of this bill were only a tiny part of the whole act. You should be worried that they'll replace it with something much worse. We should all be lobbying our elected officials already. Don't wait until it's too late. I remember when this ban went through. I can't count the number of times I heard someone say, "It'll never happen here. This is America!" These are the same types that say the government will never collect firearms. [rolleyes] As far as I know there has never been a legal challenge brought up in the Supreme Court regarding the 1994 amendments to the Gun Control Act of 1968. I'd love to see it happen though.
Link Posted: 7/2/2002 11:13:16 AM EST
so if people are fighting for a new AW ban, who is fighting to let it sunset? who is fighting for our side up at capital hill?
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