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Posted: 9/12/2004 7:45:27 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 7:47:40 AM EST
The line starts here__________________________________ for the ass kissing. Step up pillow biters.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 7:48:00 AM EST
[crickets].....chirp chirp..... chirp chirp..... chirp chirp....[/crickets]
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 7:49:01 AM EST
No, they will not admit they were wrong. They will just start bitching about something else.

Libertarians=Liberals with guns


SGatr15
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 7:49:33 AM EST
Don’t hold your breath.

Pathologic idiots are always pathologic idiots they will just dance around the subject and find other reasons to be nasty. They sure as hell will not admit they were wrong.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 7:53:12 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/12/2004 7:53:31 AM EST by Nexus6]
I wating to see all the posts about how a new ban is coming, how it'll be retroactive, and how we're all screwed.

Some people just like pissing in other people's pots.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 7:54:29 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/12/2004 7:55:01 AM EST by Greenhorn]
I for one saw how obvious it was that Bush was not an anti-gunner. Knowing it will die and promising to sign it if it reached your desk while not doing anything to get it renewed and thereby not angering pro- or anti-gunners is not the same as being anti-gun. Bush played politics. He won.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 7:55:40 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/12/2004 7:56:18 AM EST by Zaphod]
The silence is deafening, isn't it?

They're probably all over on Pre-Ban saying how the Coalition is responsible for the sunset...
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 7:57:18 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 8:00:55 AM EST
I say fuck'em and move on. I've learned to ignore all their liberal spewing bullshit. Lets go shooting.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 8:02:24 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 8:16:08 AM EST

Originally Posted By DigDug:


You are in denial. You will get over it. You can answer the question "Does W support an AWB?" very easily. The answer is NO. Why is that so hard?



Publically, he supports it.

Please do tell how you are so sure he does not support it. Have dinner with him lately?

Link Posted: 9/12/2004 8:19:28 AM EST

Originally Posted By DigDug:
going to give it a rest now? It was obvious to me that some of you have no clue how politics are played and went on and on that GWB is in support of the AWB, blah, blah blah



Good point Dig, In fact this is THE point!

The problem is that too many gun owners think the Constitution only contains 4 words, "Shall not be infringed". They forget that the same framers that gave us those words also gave us 1000's more. Words that created a country where our leaders also had to present themselves to the people at regular intervals and be elected to their office. It's called politics.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 8:25:40 AM EST

Originally Posted By Nexus6:
I wating to see all the posts about how a new ban is coming, how it'll be retroactive, and how we're all screwed.

Some people just like pissing in other people's pots.



what do you mean "waiting"?

ive seen a bunch of them already!
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 8:29:02 AM EST
I've been saying that there will be no new AWB for the last 3 years.

W's campaign blurb in 99, notwithstanding.

A customer emailed and reminded me of that the other day.

HUZZAH!

We Win ONE, a BIG ONE!

Now on to the 86 ban...OR...national CCW reciprocity. Watch crime rates fall after that one!

The constitution already gives us "full faith and credit" in every State to the "Official Acts" of any other State.

If my Driver License, and my Marriage Licence is good in every state, why isn't my CCW card?

We have a better chance of national CCW, overseen by State of Residence than we do of ridding ourselves of the 86 ban.

D.
AZEX
"As seen on TV"
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 8:32:22 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/12/2004 8:32:40 AM EST by DK-Prof]
I'm not anti-GWB per se, but I will gladly admit

I WAS WRONG

Even a year ago, I would not have believed that the AWB was going to sunset without reauthorization. I really didn't think I was ever going to see a REDUCTION in federal gun control. I thought that some kind of deal would be struck, to get the bill through Congress, and GWB would have been trapped by his campaign promise and would have had to sign it.

I am very happy to have been wrong - and for the last month, I pretty much became a believer.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 8:34:11 AM EST

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
No, they will not admit they were wrong. They will just start bitching about something else.

SGatr15

yup.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 8:34:27 AM EST

Originally Posted By Sweep:

Originally Posted By DigDug:
going to give it a rest now? It was obvious to me that some of you have no clue how politics are played and went on and on that GWB is in support of the AWB, blah, blah blah. And now I can say:

YOU WERE WRONG!

This is the thread to apologize to the rest of us for all the time you have wasted with your inability to understand modern politics.

And don't even think about saying that the AWB could still be renewed. It's done. Dead. Finished. Caput.

Let the groveling begin. I will take cash (or evil goodies) in lew of verbal apology.



You're right on that. And in all actuality, from the way I understand it, the 94 Crime Bill couldn't even be extended. The only way they could have kept the 94 Crime Bill laws in place would have been to create an exact duplicate of the law and call it the 04 Crime Bill.

As far as whether or not something else will be introduced in it's place, we'll see. But I bet that if the Democrats ever get into the White House and end up with a majority in Congress you can bet your sweet bippy there will be another one.

Does W support an AWB? Kind of a mute point right now. We'll have to wait and see if anything is ever laid on his desk in the next four years, yeah, I said next four years because I'm sure he is going to win. That's because Libertarains like myself have enough common sense to vote for him instead of taking the chance of handing the election to Kerry.

Understand the politics argument, .i.e., say you supporrt something in the hopes that a bill is presented for you to sign it into law because you really don't support it. Buys you votes and can be a smart thing to do. However, keep in mind, he signed the Campaign Finance reform bill and even said he knew he was signing something into law that was unconstitutional.

I personally never said that another AWB was going to be introduced and he would sign before this one expired. But I have said that if one was put in front of him I think he would sign it. So until one is placed in front of him and he doesn't sign it, nothing for me to apologize for.



When will libertarians ever vote libertarian? Has a libertarian ever voted for a libertarian candidate?
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 8:35:44 AM EST

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
I'm not anti-GWB per se, but I will gladly admit

I WAS WRONG

Even a year ago, I would not have believed that the AWB was going to sunset without reauthorization. I really didn't think I was ever going to see a REDUCTION in federal gun control. I thought that some kind of deal would be struck, to get the bill through Congress, and GWB would have been trapped by his campaign promise and would have had to sign it.

I am very happy to have been wrong - and for the last month, I pretty much became a believer.



Good for you, Prof!


Not bad for a German!
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 8:43:08 AM EST
In my not-so-humble opinion, GWB didn't do much of anything, one way or the other. DeLay and Frist (Frist less so than DeLay) deserve the thanks. GWB simply played politics with it which is pretty much what I expected. I'm happy with the outcome, no matter who did or didn't do what. Of course, you all may continue with your divisive BS which seems to make so many here happy.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 8:44:24 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 8:47:10 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 8:47:47 AM EST

Originally Posted By DigDug:

Originally Posted By AZ-K9:

Originally Posted By DigDug:


You are in denial. You will get over it. You can answer the question "Does W support an AWB?" very easily. The answer is NO. Why is that so hard?



Publically, he supports it.

Please do tell how you are so sure he does not support it. Have dinner with him lately?




If GWB wanted the AWB renewed, what would stop him? Nothing.

exactly.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 8:49:37 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/12/2004 8:50:55 AM EST by Max_Mike]

Originally Posted By wetidlerjr:
In my not-so-humble opinion, GWB didn't do much of anything, one way or the other. DeLay and Frist (Frist less so than DeLay) deserve the thanks. GWB simply played politics with it which is pretty much what I expected. I'm happy with the outcome, no matter who did or didn't do what. Of course, you all may continue with your divisive BS which seems to make so many here happy.



You just don’t get it… sometimes with a person in a particular position not doing much is EXACTLY what needs to be done.

What he did do WAS NOT the deciding factor, what he DID NOT do was.

Be obtuse if you wish but the reality of the situation is GWB’s action/inaction IS responsible for the AWB sunset. The Brady bunch know this to be the truth and so states.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 8:52:40 AM EST

Originally Posted By AZ-K9:

Originally Posted By DigDug:


You are in denial. You will get over it. You can answer the question "Does W support an AWB?" very easily. The answer is NO. Why is that so hard?



Publically, he supports it.

Please do tell how you are so sure he does not support it. Have dinner with him lately?




Please do tell when has he actually voted for it?

Back atcha...it's almost like you anti-bushers want him to do something like vote for it. He is now catching hell from his opponent and all the liberals, has he come out and changed anything? No. The AWB died and he watched.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 8:52:56 AM EST
I voted for DeLay btw, so thank ME!
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 8:54:26 AM EST
The man is not a Pro-Gun Politician and never will be. Yes he is the lesser of 2 evils by far but, he is no hero of the Constitution or Induvidial Rights. The man even admited in public that he would sign it back into law if it made it to his desk. It just never made it out of Congress. So know I have to claim this guy is some hero of our cause, just because he did not sign a law that he said he would that never made it to his desk. Never support ANYONE that wants to take your rights away.

If he wins the Election this fall and God forbid Congress goes to the Liberal Dems watch what this guy will sign that makes it to his desk. His Daddy did a fine job of screwing us in 89 and even had his hand in the 86 law.

Neither Bush or Kerry are going to be good for our Country. Both of these guys have very questionable Militayr records and both are a members of a Cult called the Skull & Bones. (They actually admited being members of this cult to Tim Russert on NBC). No one really seems to know what the hell goes on in this secret cult but one thing is for sure. How can any Christan American support anyone that admits being members of a cult?

This is a sad time for our great Country that out of 270 million people, Bush & Kerry are the so called Cream of the Crop of leadership. It's a real shame that the Constitunial or Libertian Canidates don't have a chance to win.

God Bless this Great Country, Lord knows we need it.



Link Posted: 9/12/2004 8:57:15 AM EST

Originally Posted By elkmontarms:
The man is not a Pro-Gun Politician and never will be. Yes he is the lesser of 2 evils by far but, he is no hero of the Constitution or Induvidial Rights. The man even admited in public that he would sign it back into law if it made it to his desk. It just never made it out of Congress. So know I have to claim this guy is some hero of our cause, just because he did not sign a law that he said he would that never made it to his desk. Never support ANYONE that wants to take your rights away.

If he wins the Election this fall and God forbid Congress goes to the Liberal Dems watch what this guy will sign that makes it to his desk. His Daddy did a fine job of screwing us in 89 and even had his hand in the 86 law.

Neither Bush or Kerry are going to be good for our Country. Both of these guys have very questionable Militayr records and both are a members of a Cult called the Skull & Bones. (They actually admited being members of this cult to Tim Russert on NBC). No one really seems to know what the hell goes on in this secret cult but one thing is for sure. How can any Christan American support anyone that admits being members of a cult?

This is a sad time for our great Country that out of 270 million people, Bush & Kerry are the so called Cream of the Crop of leadership. It's a real shame that the Constitunial or Libertian Canidates don't have a chance to win.

God Bless this Great Country, Lord knows we need it.




This is exactly the kind of childish intellectually dishonest crap I expected.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 9:05:50 AM EST

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:

Originally Posted By elkmontarms:
The man is not a Pro-Gun Politician and never will be. Yes he is the lesser of 2 evils by far but, he is no hero of the Constitution or Induvidial Rights. The man even admited in public that he would sign it back into law if it made it to his desk. It just never made it out of Congress. So know I have to claim this guy is some hero of our cause, just because he did not sign a law that he said he would that never made it to his desk. Never support ANYONE that wants to take your rights away.

If he wins the Election this fall and God forbid Congress goes to the Liberal Dems watch what this guy will sign that makes it to his desk. His Daddy did a fine job of screwing us in 89 and even had his hand in the 86 law.

Neither Bush or Kerry are going to be good for our Country. Both of these guys have very questionable Militayr records and both are a members of a Cult called the Skull & Bones. (They actually admited being members of this cult to Tim Russert on NBC). No one really seems to know what the hell goes on in this secret cult but one thing is for sure. How can any Christan American support anyone that admits being members of a cult?

This is a sad time for our great Country that out of 270 million people, Bush & Kerry are the so called Cream of the Crop of leadership. It's a real shame that the Constitunial or Libertian Canidates don't have a chance to win.

God Bless this Great Country, Lord knows we need it.




This is exactly the kind of childish intellectually dishonest crap I expected.



The facts listed in my post above are100%true. If you would like to look it up feel free. It's sad that some of you guys would look down at one of your fellow gun nuts fighting for the cause but would defend to the death for some politican that said he would take away your rights and really does not give a shit about us.

Wake up guys none of thes politicans are our friends. If 99% of the public wanted to do away with the 2nd Adm tommorow Bush or Kerry would be the first one in line call for us to turn them in. If we all don't stick togther on defending our rights then we will all fall.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 9:09:47 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 9:13:02 AM EST

Originally Posted By AZ-K9:

Originally Posted By DigDug:


You are in denial. You will get over it. You can answer the question "Does W support an AWB?" very easily. The answer is NO. Why is that so hard?



Publically, he supports it.

Please do tell how you are so sure he does not support it. Have dinner with him lately?




Just look at the results.

ONLY way that happened is Bush telling Delay and Frist to kill it.

Reading letters from Delay and Frist make it clear to me taht's what happened.

You may not like it, but Bush is a MASTERFUL politician.

He disarmed the antis saying he supportes it. He told Delay, Frist to kill it.

By the time the antis figgered out they been snookered it was too late.

Some may call what Bush did lying - I call it an acceptable deception of unAmerican individuals, with who I am at war.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 9:14:57 AM EST
It;s pretty had to admit I was wrong when the facts I quote are true. I don't debate by opinion I debate by fact's. If you have some fact thats counter mine then fine. But by telling me to be quite clearly shows that you need to grow up a bit. You are the one that posted the orginal question. If you can't run with the bigsd ogs stay on the porch son.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 9:18:09 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 9:19:58 AM EST
I had no idea if it was going to get re-authorized or not. Now that it is sunsetting into hell, GWB can be assured of my vote.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 9:20:49 AM EST
I told myself that if GWB didn't sign the AWB renewal I would go to the local Republican Campaign office and voulnteer time to help GWB. So after the AWB Sunset Party I am going to voulnteer.

GWB and the Republicans so far have shown great poltical tact with the AWB issue. They have my support.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 9:22:45 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 9:29:23 AM EST

Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:
I had no idea if it was going to get re-authorized or not. Now that it is sunsetting into hell, GWB can be assured of my vote.




iI'm in the same boat.

We all need to let the Repubs know that's what happened.

Psycologists call it "positive reinforcement."
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 9:34:03 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 9:36:44 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/12/2004 9:38:07 AM EST by elkmontarms]

Originally Posted By DigDug:

Originally Posted By elkmontarms:
It;s pretty had to admit I was wrong when the facts I quote are true. I don't debate by opinion I debate by fact's. If you have some fact thats counter mine then fine. But by telling me to be quite clearly shows that you need to grow up a bit. You are the one that posted the orginal question. If you can't run with the bigsd ogs stay on the porch son.



What exactly is happening at midnight tonight? Do you know? Do you know why? Do you know who caused it to happen? You're not man enough to admit that your little view of how things happen is wrong. I pity you and your little make believe world.



Dig Dug you are a lost cause. Bush had very little to do with what is happening tonight. In case you forgot ,this spring both Republics & Dems voted to extend it but due to the way it was tied to the Gunmakers Protection act it the whole package was voted down. I can only take any man including Bush on his word and he said he would sign it if it made it to his desk. I will vote for him this year simply due to the lesser of 2 evils factor but this guy is no hero to gun rights and if you can't see that you never will.

It's the same reason the NRA is supporting him because he is the lesser of 2 evils and nothing else.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 9:38:58 AM EST

Originally Posted By elkmontarms:
Bush had very little to do with what is happening tonight.



You CLEARLY don't understand how politics works.

Link Posted: 9/12/2004 9:44:45 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 9:48:20 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/12/2004 9:50:32 AM EST by ArmdLbrl]

Originally Posted By Greenhorn:
I for one saw how obvious it was that Bush was not an anti-gunner. Knowing it will die and promising to sign it if it reached your desk while not doing anything to get it renewed and thereby not angering pro- or anti-gunners is not the same as being anti-gun. Bush played politics. He won.



Yeah he won, but it was really a miscalculation. He said that during the campaign in a attemtpt to woo costal states and Illinois that he wound up losing anyways. A lot of us therefore voted for him simply because Kerry appeared worse. He has spent the last 4 years trying to get out from under that statement since it has been painfully obvious for some time that opposition to gun control is a vote gainer

At the time though he was still relying on the news media as a gauge of public opinion, something I don't think he has done since they tried to steal the election from him in November and showed their true partisan colors to any who bothered to watch. And they were still spouting that gun control was a popular issue. Untill the Internet came to his rescue in November Bush paid no attention to it, so he too beleved that when the media said what public opinion was it was close to factual.

It was not personally a hard thing for Bush to say, because I don't beleve he is a big gun affectionado and he certainly doesn't have to worry about his personal safety, even before he became pres he could afford his own security. Gun control is just not a issue that directly impacts his life like for us here so he really has no personal position on it.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 9:50:39 AM EST

Originally Posted By garandman:

Originally Posted By elkmontarms:
Bush had very little to do with what is happening tonight.



You CLEARLY don't understand how politics works.



I fully understand Politics . If this was not an election year and it made it to his desk he would have signed it, he is no diffirent then his old man. This way it's great for him both ways. The Anti's really can't bitch because it never made to his desk and we can so called praise him for not signing a bill he said he would.

I am very glad we are restoring some of our rights but I am not going to kiss the ass of the guy who said he would screw us all.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 9:52:22 AM EST

Originally Posted By DigDug:

Originally Posted By AZ-K9:

Originally Posted By DigDug:


You are in denial. You will get over it. You can answer the question "Does W support an AWB?" very easily. The answer is NO. Why is that so hard?



Publically, he supports it.

Please do tell how you are so sure he does not support it. Have dinner with him lately?




If GWB wanted the AWB renewed, what would stop him? Nothing.


The prospect of losing votes stopped him, how dense can you be?

While I'll take him anyday over JFK, he is no real friend of gun rights.....
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 9:55:14 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 9:55:22 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/12/2004 9:56:07 AM EST by garandman]

Originally Posted By elkmontarms:
. If this was not an election year and it made it to his desk he would have signed it, he is no diffirent then his old man.




If Bush had done what you want, and got in teh antis faces a year ago, THEY WOULD HAVE HAD A YER TO RAMP UP THEIR FORCES AND LIE LIE LIE and the AWB would have been renewed.

Bush lulled them to sleep, and stuck them under the fifth rib.

YOu want rhetoric. I want results. The rhetoric you are wanting WOULD have gotten teh AWB renewed.

But you miss the point I was making. Bush had EVERYTHIONG to do with this AWB sunsetting. He gave marching orders to Delay and Frist.

Results. SCREW rhetoric.

Link Posted: 9/12/2004 9:56:32 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 9:57:32 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 10:00:30 AM EST

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
ONCE AGAIN....

For the record BUSH did not save us.

Larry Craig, Tom Delay and Bill Frist are the politicians who put their careers on the line and protected our freedoms.

Bush said he would sign a bill to renew in 2000 and gave tacit approval and encouragement to politicians like Feinstein, Schumer, et al.

Please spare me your covert "master plan" theory as I simply don't buy it.

I will be voting for Bush in 2004, but it won't be because he saved me from the renewal.



Funny how people blame Bush as the head of teh Repub party for screwballs like McCain, but REFUSE to give Bush credit for Delay and Frsit since Bush is the head of the Repub party.

Link Posted: 9/12/2004 10:06:28 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 10:10:47 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/12/2004 10:18:43 AM EST by garandman]

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
To blame Bush for McCain is as stupid as giving Bush credit for guys like Delay, Frist and Craig.

Now if you want to bring me some example of how Bush ACTIVELY defeated the renewal, I will be all ears. But until I see that kind of evidence I refuse to give him credit for the acts of 3 Republicans who put THEIR careers on the line.

.




You think Delay and Frist are just out there freelancing???

You think they don't have Bush's assurances of protection, and are just risking their poloitical careers for fun??



Evidence of Bush's control over the ENTIRE Repub party is the "new tone" business. NO ONE in the Repub Party is playing the Dems game of vitriolic rheteric.

Bush did that. Bush told Frist and Delay to kill the AWB.

Its how politics work.

Far as McCain, I do kinda blame Bush for him. He COULD reign McCain in. I suspect he gives him a longer leashas it gives the Repub Party a diverse look.

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