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Posted: 9/7/2005 1:04:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2005 1:05:20 PM EDT by mjohn3006]
I ask a simple questions about DVD’s, or others do, or about music and get tons of people saying just download it just download it blah blah blah.

So what is the difference between STEALING DVD’s from the internet, and STEALING beer and TV’s from a New Orleans store?

You are acquiring things that legally should be paid for. It is called stealing.

Now a lot of these bit torrent things are recorded from TV. That I see as perfectly fine and legal, but not a DVD, and not a DVD of a TV show.

And please don’t use the “well the movie companies can afford it” or “its victimless” or “I don’t want to give the left wingers money” excuses.

You are stealing and have no right to talk about the looters in NO.

I see it in co-workers to. People that otherwise are completely law abiding, talk constantly about downloading DVD’s and Music in illegal ways. I get the weirdest looks from people when I buy a CD. I must get 5 or 6 people come up to me and ask why I don't just download it.

What is the difference between looting and stealing movies and music off the intarweb?
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 1:07:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2005 1:07:52 PM EDT by Torf]

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:

Now a lot of these bit torrent things are recorded from TV. That I see as perfectly fine and legal, but not a DVD, and not a DVD of a TV show.



Why is downloading it and watching it on your computer OK, but burning it to a DVD not OK?

It has been pretty well established that a consumer can record TV shows and store them in any format for their own personnal use.

Stealing is not fine.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 1:08:55 PM EDT
It's for backups, in case I misplace my legally purchased stuff.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 1:09:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Torf:

Stealing is not fine.



+1

Also, murder, rape, destruction of property, etc... I think there are laws spelling this stuff out somewhere, but I'm not an attorney or anything.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 1:10:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SubnetMask:
It's for backups, in case I misplace my legally purchased stuff.



100% legal and fine...assuming you actually have the original or case for it.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 1:11:39 PM EDT
The difference is a concrete item and an item which has no value other than the inflated price given it by an entertainment industry that is more and more out of touch. In additiont to these reasons, you have already PAID for any music you download and put on cd. Every blank cd sold has has a tariff on it.
Oh crap, you didn't know that did ya? Yep the music industry got the price of blanks jacked up so they could get paid whether or not you buy the music or if you steal it. Now you have to ask yourself why the music industry gets paid BY YOU, if you never ever steal music...you still got to pay the industry.



And after all that I have an I-tunes account and I pay for my music....hound out.

Now the next question is why do you think that you can equate the two? Cleaning out a walmart is a hell of a lot different than hitting the internet for a few songs.....
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 1:12:06 PM EDT
It's not fine. There's just a lot of people with the entitlement mentality who think that somehow they deserve to steal/download illegal copies of music.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 1:13:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2005 1:15:12 PM EDT by Tango7]
While my gut response is "nothing", I'll argue the point on the "degree of separation" theory as to why looting from a store is the worse of the two.

The "works" in question (movies, music, TV shows) have gone through so many levels of corporate separation from the actual participants (director, actors & crew) by the time they hit the screen (big or little) or the speakers that the direct impact to them is minimal.

IIRC, most participants are paid "X" salary for the event in question, plus "y" % of profits from distribution (for movies, it's screen showings and DVD sales. For music, it's CD sales and radio play).

X plus Y is generally less than 10% of the total profit...

<­b>For everybody involved in the actual construction of the work. The remaining 90% is scattered to theaters, distributors, production companies, TV stations, networks etc. Same thing with music.

Except when raiding an established coporate entity where the merchandise is still corporate inventory (Wal Mart, Walgreens, Etc.), the looters in NoLo were taking from John Q. Shopowner, who had paid for the goods, and was intending to resell them at his markup to obtain his profit and clear his overhead.

A little more personal type of theft.

Still wrong, but different.

ETA - Kudos to Hound for the insight on blank media.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 1:14:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2005 1:15:50 PM EDT by TheCynic]
I think that it comes down to the fact that software,
music, and movies are not considered tangible goods.
You are "stealing" the item by making a copy of it.

Let's say that I had a hand-held Star Trek replicator.
I took this replicator to Wal-Mart and "copied" a bunch
of goods. Is WalMart out any money directly from this?
They had the same number of goods as they did when I
entered the store.

This is the argument that many people make to make
themselves feel better about stealing IP.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 1:15:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2005 1:15:28 PM EDT by mjohn3006]

Originally Posted By hound:
The difference is a concrete item and an item which has no value other than the inflated price given it by an entertainment industry that is more and more out of touch. In additiont to these reasons, you have already PAID for any music you download and put on cd. Every blank cd sold has has a tariff on it.
Oh crap, you didn't know that did ya? Yep the music industry got the price of blanks jacked up so they could get paid whether or not you buy the music or if you steal it. Now you have to ask yourself why the music industry gets paid BY YOU, if you never ever steal music...you still got to pay the industry.



And after all that I have an I-tunes account and I pay for my music....hound out.

Now the next question is why do you think that you can equate the two? Cleaning out a walmart is a hell of a lot different than hitting the internet for a few songs.....



So stealing a dollar is "acceptable", and somehow not really stealing?
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 1:16:04 PM EDT
Have you ever taped a movie or other program off of the TV?
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 1:16:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2005 1:18:00 PM EDT by EPOCH96]
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 1:16:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:

Originally Posted By SubnetMask:
It's for backups, in case I misplace my legally purchased stuff.



100% legal and fine...assuming you actually have the original or case for it.



Yup. Actually, I do download quite a bit for nothing, but it's not what you'd think. I grab Zeppelin bootlegs (the band was always fine with it), and TONS of stuff that isn't released on CD. I have one questionable "pirated" album in my collection:

ZZ Top - Tres Hombres. I only did this, becuase some kind soul was generous enough to rip it from the original vinyl for me. When the record company released it on CD in the 80's, they remastered it and it sounds absolutely TERRIBLE! The recording is awash in reverb and the drums don't even sound like a real kit anymore. Whoever remastered that once fine recording, should be drug out into the street and shot for his crimes. I don't feel guilty about downloading that one.

Link Posted: 9/7/2005 1:18:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2005 1:18:18 PM EDT by mjohn3006]

Originally Posted By Tango7:
While my gut response is "nothing", I'll argue the point on the "degree of separation" theory as to why looting from a store is the worse of the two.





I will agree there is a "worse" of the two. But when the same people who are stealing something.....talk about shooting looters because the looters are scum and deserve to die.....I just wonder.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 1:18:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:
I ask a simple questions about DVD’s, or others do, or about music and get tons of people saying just download it just download it blah blah blah.

So what is the difference between STEALING DVD’s from the internet, and STEALING beer and TV’s from a New Orleans store?

You are acquiring things that legally should be paid for. It is called stealing.

Now a lot of these bit torrent things are recorded from TV. That I see as perfectly fine and legal, but not a DVD, and not a DVD of a TV show.

And please don’t use the “well the movie companies can afford it” or “its victimless” or “I don’t want to give the left wingers money” excuses.

You are stealing and have no right to talk about the looters in NO.

I see it in co-workers to. People that otherwise are completely law abiding, talk constantly about downloading DVD’s and Music in illegal ways. I get the weirdest looks from people when I buy a CD. I must get 5 or 6 people come up to me and ask why I don't just download it.

What is the difference between looting and stealing movies and music off the intarweb?



Well, aren't you the beacon of morality and truth.

What if I record it off of the radio?
My XM satellite radio is crystal clear. I could get the same quality from that.
I understand how you feel, I just think your logic is kinda flawed .

...and BTW stealing (accessing )platinum package cable television at $100 a month for a year is wrong, but it's hardly the same as stealing a $1200 AR15 from a gun shop.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 1:19:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By distributor_of_pain:

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:
I ask a simple questions about DVD’s, or others do, or about music and get tons of people saying just download it just download it blah blah blah.

So what is the difference between STEALING DVD’s from the internet, and STEALING beer and TV’s from a New Orleans store?

You are acquiring things that legally should be paid for. It is called stealing.

Now a lot of these bit torrent things are recorded from TV. That I see as perfectly fine and legal, but not a DVD, and not a DVD of a TV show.

And please don’t use the “well the movie companies can afford it” or “its victimless” or “I don’t want to give the left wingers money” excuses.

You are stealing and have no right to talk about the looters in NO.

I see it in co-workers to. People that otherwise are completely law abiding, talk constantly about downloading DVD’s and Music in illegal ways. I get the weirdest looks from people when I buy a CD. I must get 5 or 6 people come up to me and ask why I don't just download it.

What is the difference between looting and stealing movies and music off the intarweb?



Well, aren't you the beacon of morality and truth.

What if I record it off of the radio?
My XM satellite radio is crystal clear. I could get the same quality from that.
I understand how you feel, I just think your logic is kinda flawed .

...and BTW stealing (accessing )platinum package cable television at $100 a month for a year is wrong, but it's hardly the same as stealing a $1200 AR15 from a gun shop.



I would agree that recording off the radio if fine....but they don't broad cast the whole albumn do they? Thats the point of radio....show a few songs...that make you want to buy the album. If you get the whole album for nothing, you are stealing. Unless I am wrong about XM radio and they do broadcast the whole albumn.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 1:23:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By distributor_of_pain:

Well, aren't you the beacon of morality and truth.




I try. I fail a lot. But I try.

Link Posted: 9/7/2005 1:25:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:

Originally Posted By distributor_of_pain:

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:
I ask a simple questions about DVD’s, or others do, or about music and get tons of people saying just download it just download it blah blah blah.

So what is the difference between STEALING DVD’s from the internet, and STEALING beer and TV’s from a New Orleans store?

You are acquiring things that legally should be paid for. It is called stealing.

Now a lot of these bit torrent things are recorded from TV. That I see as perfectly fine and legal, but not a DVD, and not a DVD of a TV show.

And please don’t use the “well the movie companies can afford it” or “its victimless” or “I don’t want to give the left wingers money” excuses.

You are stealing and have no right to talk about the looters in NO.

I see it in co-workers to. People that otherwise are completely law abiding, talk constantly about downloading DVD’s and Music in illegal ways. I get the weirdest looks from people when I buy a CD. I must get 5 or 6 people come up to me and ask why I don't just download it.

What is the difference between looting and stealing movies and music off the intarweb?



Well, aren't you the beacon of morality and truth.

What if I record it off of the radio?
My XM satellite radio is crystal clear. I could get the same quality from that.
I understand how you feel, I just think your logic is kinda flawed .

...and BTW stealing (accessing )platinum package cable television at $100 a month for a year is wrong, but it's hardly the same as stealing a $1200 AR15 from a gun shop.



I would agree that recording off the radio if fine....but they don't broad cast the whole albumn do they? Thats the point of radio....show a few songs...that make you want to buy the album. If you get the whole album for nothing, you are stealing. Unless I am wrong about XM radio and they do broadcast the whole albumn.



So, If I just download the GOOD songs that they play on the radio - It's ok?

Who are you carrying all of those bricks for?
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 1:26:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:
Have you ever taped a movie or other program off of the TV?



Thats fine. I even said that in my original post. A recording off the TV is legal to my knowledge.

But taking a DVD of I-Robot converting it and compressing it to an AVI and scattering it across the net is not legal.

Capying I-Robot off the TV...which is a cut version with commercial breaks....is quite a bit different than a DVD.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 1:28:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2005 1:29:47 PM EDT by mjohn3006]

Originally Posted By distributor_of_pain:

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:

Originally Posted By distributor_of_pain:

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:
I ask a simple questions about DVD’s, or others do, or about music and get tons of people saying just download it just download it blah blah blah.

So what is the difference between STEALING DVD’s from the internet, and STEALING beer and TV’s from a New Orleans store?

You are acquiring things that legally should be paid for. It is called stealing.

Now a lot of these bit torrent things are recorded from TV. That I see as perfectly fine and legal, but not a DVD, and not a DVD of a TV show.

And please don’t use the “well the movie companies can afford it” or “its victimless” or “I don’t want to give the left wingers money” excuses.

You are stealing and have no right to talk about the looters in NO.

I see it in co-workers to. People that otherwise are completely law abiding, talk constantly about downloading DVD’s and Music in illegal ways. I get the weirdest looks from people when I buy a CD. I must get 5 or 6 people come up to me and ask why I don't just download it.

What is the difference between looting and stealing movies and music off the intarweb?



Well, aren't you the beacon of morality and truth.

What if I record it off of the radio?
My XM satellite radio is crystal clear. I could get the same quality from that.
I understand how you feel, I just think your logic is kinda flawed .

...and BTW stealing (accessing )platinum package cable television at $100 a month for a year is wrong, but it's hardly the same as stealing a $1200 AR15 from a gun shop.



I would agree that recording off the radio if fine....but they don't broad cast the whole albumn do they? Thats the point of radio....show a few songs...that make you want to buy the album. If you get the whole album for nothing, you are stealing. Unless I am wrong about XM radio and they do broadcast the whole albumn.



So, If I just download the GOOD songs that they play on the radio - It's ok?

Who are you carrying all of those bricks for?



Are radio songs free domain as soon as they hit the air?

ETA that is a real question that I don't know the answer to.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 1:29:17 PM EDT
It's copyright infringement, not stealing.

Link Posted: 9/7/2005 1:30:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Red_Beard:
It's copyright infringement, not stealing.




What is the difference?

Yes I am really asking. Both are taking money from someone right?
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 1:32:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:
Have you ever taped a movie or other program off of the TV?



Thats fine. I even said that in my original post. A recording off the TV is legal to my knowledge.

But taking a DVD of I-Robot converting it and compressing it to an AVI and scattering it across the net is not legal.

Capying I-Robot off the TV...which is a cut version with commercial breaks....is quite a bit different than a DVD.



Suppose I tell you I have a copy of "I, Robot" on VHS and you borrow it and make a copy.

Is that stealing?
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 1:36:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:

Originally Posted By Red_Beard:
It's copyright infringement, not stealing.




What is the difference?

Yes I am really asking. Both are taking money from someone right?



How is making copy of a CD that my friend bought taking money from someone?
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 1:36:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:
Have you ever taped a movie or other program off of the TV?



Thats fine. I even said that in my original post. A recording off the TV is legal to my knowledge.

But taking a DVD of I-Robot converting it and compressing it to an AVI and scattering it across the net is not legal.

Capying I-Robot off the TV...which is a cut version with commercial breaks....is quite a bit different than a DVD.



Suppose I tell you I have a copy of "I, Robot" on VHS and you borrow it and make a copy.

Is that stealing?



Is it a package version of I-Robot, or a recording off TV?
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 1:37:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2005 1:40:08 PM EDT by mjohn3006]

Originally Posted By Red_Beard:

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:

Originally Posted By Red_Beard:
It's copyright infringement, not stealing.




What is the difference?

Yes I am really asking. Both are taking money from someone right?



How is making copy of a CD that my friend bought taking money from someone?



The money that should have gone to the record company/artist/best buy from the CD you did not buy because you got a copy.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 1:39:49 PM EDT
I guess this post really comes from me being tired of asking if someone bought a DVD and getting remarks like "no, but I downloaded it" A har har har I'm so smart.

Or I buy a CD and am reading the cover and someone comes up and says, "you bought a CD? I have not bought a CD for years, I just download them free. Why the hell would you buy it?"
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 1:41:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:
Have you ever taped a movie or other program off of the TV?



Thats fine. I even said that in my original post. A recording off the TV is legal to my knowledge.

But taking a DVD of I-Robot converting it and compressing it to an AVI and scattering it across the net is not legal.

Capying I-Robot off the TV...which is a cut version with commercial breaks....is quite a bit different than a DVD.



Suppose I tell you I have a copy of "I, Robot" on VHS and you borrow it and make a copy.

Is that stealing?



Is it a package version of I-Robot, or a recording off TV?



Actually old buddy, I've been running you down a rabbit trail.

Does it make any difference? Just where do we draw the line? If I tape something off TV or copy it from an internet site, what's the difference?

The line is a little difficult to see.

I do not advocate "stealing". But where do we draw the line?
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 1:42:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:
I guess this post really comes from me being tired of asking if someone bought a DVD and getting remarks like "no, but I downloaded it" A har har har I'm so smart.

Or I buy a CD and am reading the cover and someone comes up and says, "you bought a CD? I have not bought a CD for years, I just download them free. Why the hell would you buy it?"



You are suffering from "honestretard" syndrome.
The only known cure is to open a Netflix account.

not that anyone should EVER DO THAT!!!
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 1:45:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2005 1:47:00 PM EDT by mjohn3006]

Originally Posted By distributor_of_pain:

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:
I guess this post really comes from me being tired of asking if someone bought a DVD and getting remarks like "no, but I downloaded it" A har har har I'm so smart.

Or I buy a CD and am reading the cover and someone comes up and says, "you bought a CD? I have not bought a CD for years, I just download them free. Why the hell would you buy it?"



You are suffering from "honestretard" syndrome.
The only known cure is to open a Netflix account.

not that anyone should EVER DO THAT!!!



I have a Netflix account. Watched Troy last night and said wow, I might go out and BUY this.

Then I returned the DVD.

And yes I do have a DVD burner. Been used twice to burn Linux.

Link Posted: 9/7/2005 1:47:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:

Originally Posted By Red_Beard:

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:

Originally Posted By Red_Beard:
It's copyright infringement, not stealing.




What is the difference?

Yes I am really asking. Both are taking money from someone right?



How is making copy of a CD that my friend bought taking money from someone?



The money that should have gone to the record company/artist/best buy from the CD you did not buy because you got a copy.



I never would have bought a copy, so they never would have had that money, so by making a copy I'm not depriving them of any potential money.

Link Posted: 9/7/2005 1:51:37 PM EDT
I have Tivo and I record a lot of stuff. Especially pay per view movies. Movies that come on HBO, HBO series. I then record them over to my DVD burner and make copies. Does that make them illegal? I fI decide to put them up on the internet for other people to see does that it illegal? I am not making a profit by file sharing.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 1:51:48 PM EDT
It's ok, I've never down loaded an entire album, only the songs I like.

It's not stealing because most of the stuff I down load, I wouldn't have bought the whole CD for anyway.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 1:53:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:
Have you ever taped a movie or other program off of the TV?



Thats fine. I even said that in my original post. A recording off the TV is legal to my knowledge.

But taking a DVD of I-Robot converting it and compressing it to an AVI and scattering it across the net is not legal.

Capying I-Robot off the TV...which is a cut version with commercial breaks....is quite a bit different than a DVD.



Not if you have HBO it isn't cut nor does it have commercials.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 1:54:35 PM EDT
I paid $90 for the LOTR extended trilogy.

They Deserved every dime of it.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 1:57:47 PM EDT
Also, with radio, cable radio and internet radio there really isn't even any need to buy CD's. I don't see why I have to pay $14 just to hear a certain song when I feel like it, they'll play it eventually on the radio anyway. Making a "greatest hits" CD from you personal collection is the same thing, it's not wrong to create a CD with just the songs you want to hear just because the record company didn't make it and sell it to you.

Stealing a TV or something is something that someone would not end up with somehow anyway, music is totally diffenent, you don't own it really, you can just listen to it when you want.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 2:10:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:

What is the difference between looting and stealing movies and music off the intarweb?




Well, for one thing, if I steal your beer, you have one less beer. If I "steal" your song, you still have your song. I wasn't going to buy it anyway, so you're not out a damn thing.

That's one difference, anyway.


Link Posted: 9/7/2005 2:13:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Red_Beard:

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:

Originally Posted By Red_Beard:
It's copyright infringement, not stealing.




What is the difference?

Yes I am really asking. Both are taking money from someone right?



How is making copy of a CD that my friend bought taking money from someone?





If you HONESTLY have to ask, you're truly hopeless......


It's still theft, because YOU should have gone out and PAID FORYOUR OWN CD...


Is it THAT hard to comprehend ?

Seems pretty clear to me...... But I guess when you can justify it to yourself, because YOU want something and don't feel like YOU should have to PAY for it, it therefore becomes ok, right ?


You sound just like a fucking liberal..... I'm not gonna pay because "the man" makes enough money already.


I bet your parents are proud


Link Posted: 9/7/2005 2:15:37 PM EDT
I agree with sentiment of original poster. IT really hurt for a while, but I started Itunes and other services to get my music and stopped stealing it. Now I can't believe I ever did the whole Kazaa Gnutella thing - blatant theivery.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 2:19:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JB69:

Originally Posted By Red_Beard:

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:

Originally Posted By Red_Beard:
It's copyright infringement, not stealing.




What is the difference?

Yes I am really asking. Both are taking money from someone right?



How is making copy of a CD that my friend bought taking money from someone?





If you HONESTLY have to ask, you're truly hopeless......


It's still theft, because YOU should have gone out and PAID FORYOUR OWN CD...


Is it THAT hard to comprehend ?

Seems pretty clear to me...... But I guess when you can justify it to yourself, because YOU want something and don't feel like YOU should have to PAY for it, it therefore becomes ok, right ?


You sound just like a fucking liberal..... I'm not gonna pay because "the man" makes enough money already.


I bet your parents are proud





Can you answer the question I asked, or just call names?

"How is making copy of a CD that my friend bought taking money from someone?"

Link Posted: 9/7/2005 2:26:40 PM EDT
I do it because it is not illegal here, fi it were i ight stop, then again, I might just send money to th eartst as well,
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 2:30:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:
Have you ever taped a movie or other program off of the TV?



Thats fine. I even said that in my original post. A recording off the TV is legal to my knowledge.

But taking a DVD of I-Robot converting it and compressing it to an AVI and scattering it across the net is not legal.

Capying I-Robot off the TV...which is a cut version with commercial breaks....is quite a bit different than a DVD.



Suppose I tell you I have a copy of "I, Robot" on VHS and you borrow it and make a copy.

Is that stealing?



Is it a package version of I-Robot, or a recording off TV?



Actually old buddy, I've been running you down a rabbit trail.

Does it make any difference? Just where do we draw the line? If I tape something off TV or copy it from an internet site, what's the difference?

The line is a little difficult to see.

I do not advocate "stealing". But where do we draw the line?





OP, It's pretty obvious you were asking leading questions, but I have LITTLE doubt that you, know that the "line drawn" is squarely where your own morals (or lack, thereof) puts it...


If you KNOW you should have paid for something, but think you're slick or crafty by scamming it off the net, or however else, then it's wrong, period....


If you tape a song or two off the radio, it's legal to the extent of whatever laws apply, and I believe they're already pretty well defined, if I'm not mistaken....

If you go and do the same with stuff on the internet, circumventing you HAVING to listen to the same radio, therefore getting to PICK AND CHOOSE what you want to get, it's pretty obvious to me it's 'stealing' by whatever name you wish to call it.


I've downloaded a couple songs before too..... Not very many though, as I'm not big into music anyway, but I freely admit it...... BUT.... the few I did grab, and liked, I went out and actually PAID for the cd, because I liked them enough to keep. The rest of the junk got deleted because I simply didn't like it....

It really doesn't seem that complex to me. If you go and download an entire friggen album, or even a shitload of individual songs online, and never PLAN to buy the physical CD/DVD/Whatever, then you're just as much a theif as any little shithead kid who shoplifts them out of the local store.....


It's called a lack of morals...... At least that's how I see it.


Regardless, you're always going to find tons of people who have convinced themselves it's ok to do, because nobody loses anything, or they wouldn't ever cough up the bucks for the real thing anyways...


You wan't something in this world, you pay for it...... If you convince yourself, for whatever reason, that it's ok to take without paying, then you're a theif.....

I really find it hard to see any other way.

Link Posted: 9/7/2005 2:32:33 PM EDT
You seem shocked that so many sensible people can rationalize a somewhat abstract 'crime'?

Heh.

I have proof that many of the people here would choose to let a human die rather than a dog if that human held political beliefs incompatible with their own. Kind of shoots your premise that we have, here at ARFCOM, a bunch of level headed folks that know the value and sanctity of human life.

Check this out. It's great:

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=386433&page=4&
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 2:35:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2005 2:36:19 PM EDT by gus]

Originally Posted By SubnetMask:
ZZ Top - Tres Hombres. I only did this, becuase some kind soul was generous enough to rip it from the original vinyl for me. When the record company released it on CD in the 80's, they remastered it and it sounds absolutely TERRIBLE! The recording is awash in reverb and the drums don't even sound like a real kit anymore. Whoever remastered that once fine recording, should be drug out into the street and shot for his crimes. I don't feel guilty about downloading that one.




That still pisses me off 20 years later! Do you know if they screwed up the indiviaul releases too or did they just do it on the "Six-Pack" box set? On the box set they screwed up 5 of their 6 first albums, and the sixth one "El Loco" sucks anyway so I can't tell if they messed with it..
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 2:38:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Red_Beard:

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:

Originally Posted By Red_Beard:

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:

Originally Posted By Red_Beard:
It's copyright infringement, not stealing.




What is the difference?

Yes I am really asking. Both are taking money from someone right?



How is making copy of a CD that my friend bought taking money from someone?



The money that should have gone to the record company/artist/best buy from the CD you did not buy because you got a copy.



I never would have bought a copy, so they never would have had that money, so by making a copy I'm not depriving them of any potential money.






And that still makes you a theif.......... Plain and simple.


Laws are not put in place for you to arbitrarily decide whether YOU think it's ok to abide by them, or even agree.... You don't like that ? too bad, so sad.....

You're dishonest and there's no way you can bullshit your way around it, to be perfectly blunt.

You want something that you should have paid for, you PAY for it.... If you don't, you're a theif.


BTW, DU's thataway ---> They've got lots like you who think it's fine to take whatever they want, if it doesn't "hurt" anybody........


Wait..... I think I hear New Orleans calling you.....


Link Posted: 9/7/2005 2:42:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Red_Beard:

Originally Posted By JB69:

Originally Posted By Red_Beard:

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:

Originally Posted By Red_Beard:
It's copyright infringement, not stealing.




What is the difference?

Yes I am really asking. Both are taking money from someone right?



How is making copy of a CD that my friend bought taking money from someone?





If you HONESTLY have to ask, you're truly hopeless......


It's still theft, because YOU should have gone out and PAID FORYOUR OWN CD...


Is it THAT hard to comprehend ?

Seems pretty clear to me...... But I guess when you can justify it to yourself, because YOU want something and don't feel like YOU should have to PAY for it, it therefore becomes ok, right ?


You sound just like a fucking liberal..... I'm not gonna pay because "the man" makes enough money already.


I bet your parents are proud





Can you answer the question I asked, or just call names?

"How is making copy of a CD that my friend bought taking money from someone?"






Because if you want the cd, BUY it....... Is that so hard to understand ?


I guess by your standards, it's ok to pirate games/programs/whatever for your computer, because you never had any intention of paying for them ANYWAYS, and "nobody lost any money" either ??


Link Posted: 9/7/2005 2:46:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2005 2:47:46 PM EDT by 89grand]

Originally Posted By JB69:

Originally Posted By Red_Beard:

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:

Originally Posted By Red_Beard:

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:

Originally Posted By Red_Beard:
It's copyright infringement, not stealing.




What is the difference?

Yes I am really asking. Both are taking money from someone right?



How is making copy of a CD that my friend bought taking money from someone?



The money that should have gone to the record company/artist/best buy from the CD you did not buy because you got a copy.



I never would have bought a copy, so they never would have had that money, so by making a copy I'm not depriving them of any potential money.






And that still makes you a theif.......... Plain and simple.


Laws are not put in place for you to arbitrarily decide whether YOU think it's ok to abide by them, or even agree.... You don't like that ? too bad, so sad.....

You're dishonest and there's no way you can bullshit your way around it, to be perfectly blunt.

You want something that you should have paid for, you PAY for it.... If you don't, you're a theif.


BTW, DU's thataway ---> They've got lots like you who think it's fine to take whatever they want, if it doesn't "hurt" anybody........


Wait..... I think I hear New Orleans calling you.....





Fucking lighten up! Comparing downloading music to a shoplifter is just downright retarded.

Who exactly are you trying to impress with your holier than thou attitude. It ain't me, I know that.
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 2:48:39 PM EDT
Well it all boils down to the fact that it is illegal. Nuff said. If you don't like the law then change it. If you are gonna disregard those laws the why don't you have an unregistered automatic rifle?
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 2:51:41 PM EDT
Notice for example the posts in this thread that make a long case of justifying what they are doing. If you have to justify it - its wrong. As one poster put it - we have a generation (or two) that believes that they are entitled to what they want. Note the clever justifications of the difference between stealing "real property" and intellectual/artist/other rights in the new virtual economy.

Stealing is stealing. If you are going to do it - at least be a man and admit it. Your whining about how your stealing is more moral and upright than others is pitiful.


CWO
Link Posted: 9/7/2005 2:53:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JB69:

Originally Posted By Red_Beard:

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:

Originally Posted By Red_Beard:

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:

Originally Posted By Red_Beard:
It's copyright infringement, not stealing.




What is the difference?

Yes I am really asking. Both are taking money from someone right?



How is making copy of a CD that my friend bought taking money from someone?



The money that should have gone to the record company/artist/best buy from the CD you did not buy because you got a copy.



I never would have bought a copy, so they never would have had that money, so by making a copy I'm not depriving them of any potential money.






And that still makes you a theif.......... Plain and simple.



No, it doesn't. It's not plain and simple. I'd be guilty of copyright infringement, not theft.

Theft and copyright infringement are two different crimes.

Link Posted: 9/7/2005 2:54:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2005 2:55:49 PM EDT by 89grand]

Originally Posted By Hawker:
Well it all boils down to the fact that it is illegal. Nuff said. If you don't like the law then change it. If you are gonna disregard those laws the why don't you have an unregistered automatic rifle?



Ummm lets see, the difference is that if I download music and you find out about it I just have to listen to a few of you dumbasses complain about it, if I have an unregistered full auto I go to prison and lose my gun rights forever.


Witnessing how much some of you guys bitch about the stupidest things, going to prison might actually be more enjoyable.
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