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Posted: 8/30/2004 8:41:20 AM EST

I've read commentary here arguing for both. The ban expires the 13th or 14th? Cause I've taken the 14th off and if it's actually the 13th, I'm gonna be angry. Thanks.
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 8:42:01 AM EST
depends on where you live.
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 8:42:19 AM EST
The 13th is the end of the ban when the clock strikes midnight and the day changes to the 13th the ban is dead!
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 8:42:41 AM EST
OJNTSA
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 8:48:08 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/30/2004 8:49:03 AM EST by mcaswell]

Originally Posted By USMC2111:
OJNTSA


Actually, even though this topic has been discussed ad nauseam, it's never really been resolved. There is some ambiguity in the language (does it expire 10 years from the date it was signed, the 13th, or 10 years from the date it actually took effect, the 14th), and some interpretation is required. I think wording favors the 13th, but there is still some uncertainty.

--Mike

Link Posted: 8/30/2004 8:57:25 AM EST
Monday Sept 13th @12:00:01
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 9:06:53 AM EST

Yes, but where is the written proof?
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 9:09:30 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 9:09:49 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 9:12:23 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/30/2004 9:20:43 AM EST by Lexington]
In numerous places, the law refers to: "after Sept. 13, 1994...blah blah blah.

In my opinion, the ban sunsets after Sept. 13, 2004, i.e. Sept. 14. Also, if you are a betting man and there is this much confusion out there, do your business on the 14th. No need to be busted for a technical violation by being a day early. Not that anybody is watching on that day, but if you buy an LEO rifle on the 13th and it comes into question later, you might have a problem when the prosecution argues the fine line of dates and +/- midnight.

923(i): ..."The serial number of any semiautomatic asault weapon manufactured after the date of the enactment of this sentence shall clearly show the date on which the weapon was manufactured"..."A large capacity ammunition feeding device manufactured after the date of the enactment of this sentence shall be identified by a serial number that clearly shows the device was manufactured or imported after the effective date of this subsection,..."

178.92 (a)(2):"...In the case of any semiautomatic assault weapon manufactured after September 13, 1994..."

178.92 (c): "Large capacity ammunition feeding devices manufactured after September 13, 1994."

etc. etc.

Also notice that LE mags from Glock and SIG are all date stamped 9/14/94.

Link Posted: 8/30/2004 9:14:44 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 9:16:10 AM EST
Which means that it will end 9/12/04 @ 10:00:01 pm here in MST.
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 9:16:25 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 9:22:57 AM EST
be risky, what is one day, lol

Link Posted: 8/30/2004 9:32:55 AM EST
I exempted myself from it years ago anyway, so I really don't give a mother fuck.
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 10:19:58 AM EST

Originally Posted By shotar:
Its a vast ATFE conspiracy. Hundreds of thousands of ATFE agents will be peering into basement windows on the evening of September twelve looking for people swapping uppers as the clock strikes midnight. They will then arrest those who attatched those uppers at 11:59 or before and confiscate their rifles and parts and haul them to gulags run by the vast wingless conspiracy.



I KNEW IT!

I'm not worried either. 12th, 13th, 14th...do what you want. I'll be putting mine on the 13th.

Troy's right. If it was effective on the 13th of that year, the 13th of this year would be 366 days after that day, which is the new year, and BAN FREE!
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 10:25:33 AM EST
It seems pretty simple.

Try this illustration.

My first enlistment in the USAF started 21 Sep, 1977, for a four-year term.

My last day of active duty in that enlistment was 20 Sep, 1981.

13 Sep 2004 is ten years and one day after the ban went into effect.

Thus, the chains fall off on the 13th.
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 10:53:32 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/30/2004 10:54:02 AM EST by BeetleBailey]
So, in other words, since the ban was essentially in effect from September 13th and so on, then the first day of the ban's expiration will be on Sept 13th as well - eh?
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 10:55:32 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 11:03:24 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/30/2004 11:25:41 AM EST by imposter]
I found a 1953 Hawaii US District Court case where the law in that case was repealed effective December 24. The plaintiff had to file her case while the law was still in effect. The court said that December 23 was the last day the law was in effect.

The AWB is repealed effective September 13. Using the logic from the Hawaii case, September 12 should be the last day the law is in effect.

That is the only federal case I could find on the issue and it is not binding precedent on anyone, but I think it is the right answer. If you were to ask youself on September 13 "Is the law repealed?", the answer is "yes." The answer is the same on the 14th.

But I would not be 10 years in prison and a $250,000 fine on it. So if you are risk averse maybe wait a day to post pics of your new build.

BTW, it has nothing to do with what time zone you are in. The law is repealed on a particular date, not at a particular time. Nothing in the AWB, or the US Code generally, would indicate a preference for the eastern time zone. Note particularly that Hawaii case. The last day the law was in effect was December 23; it did not matter whether it was already December 24 in DC when the case was filed.


This title and the amendments made by this title--
(1) shall take effect on the date of enactment of this Act; and
(2) are repealed effective as of the date that is 10 years after that date.

Link Posted: 8/30/2004 11:44:05 AM EST

Originally Posted By markm:
I exempted myself from it years ago anyway, so I really don't give a mother fuck.



gimme some hush money or else!
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 11:47:29 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/30/2004 11:50:25 AM EST by Quarterbore]

Originally Posted By mcaswell:

Originally Posted By USMC2111:
OJNTSA


Actually, even though this topic has been discussed ad nauseam, it's never really been resolved. There is some ambiguity in the language (does it expire 10 years from the date it was signed, the 13th, or 10 years from the date it actually took effect, the 14th), and some interpretation is required. I think wording favors the 13th, but there is still some uncertainty.

--Mike

www.mikecaswell.com/awcountdown.gif



+1: The 14th makes sence to me as a pre-ban made 9/13/04 is a PREBAN while one made 9/14/2004 is POST BAN.... I also understand the 9/13 arguments... I plan to build the 14th
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 11:55:35 AM EST

Originally Posted By shotar:
Its a vast ATFE conspiracy. Hundreds of thousands of ATFE agents will be peering into basement windows on the evening of September twelve looking for people swapping uppers as the clock strikes midnight. They will then arrest those who attatched those uppers at 11:59 or before and confiscate their rifles and parts and haul them to gulags run by the vast wingless conspiracy.

That's cool, I don't have a basement, so I'll just assemble it upstairs!
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 12:02:08 PM EST
Who cares if it's the 13th or the 14th, gun stores will do big business the weekend after the ban.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 4:15:18 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/31/2004 6:00:11 AM EST by mcaswell]

Originally Posted By Quarterbore:
+1: The 14th makes sence to me as a pre-ban made 9/13/04 is a PREBAN while one made 9/14/2004 is POST BAN.... I also understand the 9/13 arguments... I plan to build the 14th


There's nothing wrong with waiting until the 14th, and if I were in a very "exposed" position (a retail FFL, for example), I'd probably wait until then too. But the wording of the relevant portion of the law is very specific.

On the date that is 10 years after the date of ENACTMENT (regardless of the date that the various provisions went INTO EFFECT), the ban is repealed. The ban was enacted on the 13th.

Again, perhaps the 14th is a little safer, as it's possible the ATF could do some creative interpretation (even though when I called the ATF last week, they said the 13th), but given the wording of the law, I now have no question about it... it expires on the 13th. I'm leaving the various awbansunset.com counters set that way unless I hear an official ruling from the ATF that says otherwise.

--Mike

Link Posted: 8/31/2004 4:27:59 AM EST
At 12:01 09-13-2004 it will be as if the ban never existed.
All matters involved will be null and void.
You can add the verboden features to a rifle from the now defunked list whenever they were produced, I.E. 09/14/1994 to09/12 and later.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 5:39:50 AM EST
That last day that the ban is in effect is 12 Sep 04. When that day expires, the ban does too.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 5:59:55 AM EST

Originally Posted By mcaswell:

Originally Posted By Quarterbore:
+1: The 14th makes sence to me as a pre-ban made 9/13/04 is a PREBAN while one made 9/14/2004 is POST BAN.... I also understand the 9/13 arguments... I plan to build the 14th


There's nothing wrong with waiting until the 14th, and if I were in a very "exposed" position (a retail FFL, for example), I'd probably wait until then too. But the wording of the relevant portion of the law is very specific.


www.mikecaswell.com/awcountdown.gif[.url]



Mike,

Yea, with four transferable MGs in my name the last thing I want is to publicaly say I am de-bannizing if there is a chance that the date could go either way. To be honest, I thought it was the 14th for most of the last 10-years so what the hell is an extra day and I may need that much time to finish getting the metal lathe running to thread the barrels on my guns...

9-13-04: risk - Do it early and commit a crime loose all guns forever
9-13-04: benifit - flash hider on a post-ban 1-day sooner

9-14-04: Risk - Get called a wimp in front of friends
9-14-04: Benifit - No chance of loosing right to own guns

I will be converting on the 14th... no offence to those that go the 13th! Hell, if I had it in writing or published where the BATFE said it was the 13th I might feel better but I have way too much to risk!
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 6:19:13 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/31/2004 7:41:24 AM EST by Brohawk]
I get the feeling that the answers to this question are getting more complicated than they have to be.

I have figured out the solution. First I factored in the square roots of the lunar cycle, adjusting for mean declination of the Earth's offset from its plane of rotation, cross-referencing it off the Mayan calendar and compensating for variations resulting from the most recent solar eclipse. I then added two egg whites, whipped vigorously, and baked at 375 degrees F for 2.3 days. Afterward, I consulted the entrails of a freshly killed goat and subtracted two.

After going through this process I have determined that you will be legal to accessorize your firearms on 13 September. Of course, if one wants to wait until the 14th, what's another 24 hours after waiting 10 years?
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 7:51:32 AM EST

Originally Posted By mcaswell:
On the date that is 10 years after the date of ENACTMENT (regardless of the date that the various provisions went INTO EFFECT), the ban is repealed. The ban was enacted on the 13th.



This is convincing. I could go with that, but I will be receiving a LEO Colt AR-15 and I want the 4473 to be dated the 14th because I don't trust the gov.
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 7:54:18 AM EST
Damn I think I will wait till the 20th just to be safe
Link Posted: 8/31/2004 10:23:15 AM EST
After considering what Lexington pointed out, I have absolutely no doubt that the ban expires on the 13th.

The AWB states that is is effective on the "date of enactment" and is repealed on the date that is "10 years after that date" (the date of enactment). Some confusion has come into play due to the fact that the PROVISIONS of the ban didn't actually take effect until the 14th. This put some doubt in my mind too... is it 10 years from the date of enactment or 10 years from the date it took effect? The wording seemed to favor 10 years from enactment (the 13th), but I wasn't sure... I suppose it could be interpreted differently (again based on the fact that the EFFECTS of the ban didn't start until the 14th).

But given the fact that, in numerous places in the ban, it makes references to the various provisions taking effect "after the date of enactment," and that guns and mags owned "on the date of the enactment" are exempt. This eliminates the tiny bit of doubt that remained in my mind... it clearly differentiates between the date of enactment and the date the provisions of the ban took effect. Because the ban expires 10 years from the date of enactment, that makes it the 13th.

Of course, that is not to say the BATFE won't decide to make it the 14th (not that this would be that big of an inconvenience anyway), but they'd be in direct contradiction to the wording of the law.

--Mike

Link Posted: 9/9/2004 5:57:19 AM EST
Lets try it this way. If the ban was on Jan 1 and lasted 1 year it would end on midnight 12/31. Thats 1 year. So on Jan 1 it would be gone. Therefore since the ban was on 9/13 for 10 years it ends on midnight 9/12. On 9/13 Monday it will be like the law was never there.

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