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Posted: 5/24/2009 5:10:31 PM EST
I realize there are two wars going on, but as I understand it (correct me if I am wrong), the military receive their small arms ammunition from the Lake City plant being contracted to one ammunition manufacturer (used to be Winchester, but now it's Federal?).

So how come we are still low in ammunition? We have Winchester, Federal (currently busy with gov contract) UMC, PMC, Sellier and Bellot and Wolf - those are just the ones that I know of, I bet there are plenty more out there. So again how come we are so low in ammo? Most of the ammunition manufacturers do not supply the .gov. I remember when gun shops used to be stocked solid with ammos, but now I only see a few boxes here and there.

So
Link Posted: 5/24/2009 5:11:04 PM EST
Link Posted: 5/24/2009 5:12:15 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/24/2009 5:12:43 PM EST by marksman121]
Its being bought up by the military and being stacked up in basements and garages across the US. Panick buying FTW!
Link Posted: 5/24/2009 5:12:31 PM EST
It's all in my basement. I hate to undercut a site sponser (CTD), but I do have some M855 for $1/round if you're interested.
Link Posted: 5/24/2009 5:17:54 PM EST
5.56 and .223 are showing up here and staying on the shelves, plenty to go around. the pistol ammo is hard to find though.
Link Posted: 5/24/2009 5:20:20 PM EST
Originally Posted By kaneroy:
5.56 and .223 are showing up here and staying on the shelves, plenty to go around. the pistol ammo is hard to find though.



Saw Monarch .223 FMJ and Remington .223 at Academy last night. I believe the Monarch was $6.00 and some change. The Rem was $10.00.
Link Posted: 5/24/2009 5:23:32 PM EST
Originally Posted By TheMessiah:
It's all in my basement. I hate to undercut a site sponser (CTD), but I do have some M855 for $1/round if you're interested.


+1

spit cherios just not, serious.
Link Posted: 5/24/2009 5:25:12 PM EST
Da poliz tok itz.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=877648
Link Posted: 5/24/2009 5:26:23 PM EST
Originally Posted By marksman121:
stacked up in basements and garages across the US.


/thread

the ammo is now being stored heavily in the private sector.
Link Posted: 5/24/2009 6:06:14 PM EST
Originally Posted By kaneroy:
5.56 and .223 are showing up here and staying on the shelves, plenty to go around. the pistol ammo is hard to find though.


Well certainly not around here in Seattle. Wherever I go, they are very lean in 223 / 556 ammunition - unless if you want to buy the high grade ammos for $20+ per box of twenty.

Link Posted: 5/24/2009 6:06:50 PM EST
Originally Posted By cruze5:


I must have missed it. I was away from here for a long time.

Link Posted: 5/24/2009 6:10:17 PM EST
Originally Posted By FreeFloater:
Originally Posted By marksman121:
stacked up in basements and garages across the US.


/thread

the ammo is now being stored heavily in the private sector.


Link Posted: 5/24/2009 6:13:11 PM EST
Originally Posted By Lindy_Hoppin_Gun_Nut:
Originally Posted By cruze5:


I must have missed it. I was away from here for a long time.


Then get caught up:
What stimulated the gun and ammuntion market
Fear and Greed Have Sales of Guns and Ammo Shooting Up
When the Wall Street Journal beats you to the punch, you're really behind the curve!
Link Posted: 5/24/2009 6:13:36 PM EST
Originally Posted By Lindy_Hoppin_Gun_Nut:
I remember when gun shops used to be stocked solid with ammos...




Ah, the good ole days.
Link Posted: 5/24/2009 6:14:52 PM EST
The .223 situation here locally has gotten much better.

Now it's just mainly handgun ammo that is impossible to find.
Link Posted: 5/24/2009 6:16:07 PM EST
Link Posted: 5/24/2009 6:16:45 PM EST
Originally Posted By kaneroy:
5.56 and .223 are showing up here and staying on the shelves, plenty to go around. the pistol ammo is hard to find though.


Same here. The last few days 223 has been easy to find. Walmart has Federal 100rnd packs for $39 a pop and has had it for a while. If you're looking for 9mm, 45, or 40 you're just going to be SOL 90% of the time.

Link Posted: 5/24/2009 6:17:48 PM EST
Every time I go to Dick's they have always a shit ton of wolf .223 black box. They ALWAYS have it. Pre-election, post-election doesn't matter.
Link Posted: 5/24/2009 6:19:07 PM EST
The current administration is buying it all up..........to keep it off the streets.......for the children.
Link Posted: 5/24/2009 6:22:32 PM EST
you can find ammo, you just cant be lazy about it. if I make three trips to my local walmart after work in a week I can guarantee I will find an abundance of ammo in at least one caliber that I use on at least one of those trips.
I leave the house at 4:30am and get off at 8pm. I get to walmart about 8:30. run in, take a peek at the counter, then haul ass home. Ive picked up 2 full cases of federal .223, about 3 cases of blazer 9mm, and 10 boxes of federal bulk 22lr, among other things in the past two months.

Link Posted: 5/24/2009 6:24:32 PM EST
You can't even find high end match ammo anymore for .223. Some dipshit out there probably bought it up so he can bumpfire his Olyarms AR into the mud.
Link Posted: 5/24/2009 6:28:01 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/24/2009 6:30:56 PM EST by Psychovore]
The local Wal-Mart has several thousand-round cases of PMC, but the cost is over $400.00 per case.
Link Posted: 5/24/2009 6:46:01 PM EST
I just took a look around the web tonight to check on the current ammo situation. I mainly looked at 5.56 and 9mm. There was one very common trend. Nearly every brand from every source I checked of the above two calibers had the words "out of stock, no backorder" beside them. It seems the only thing available at all was a few packs of those gimmick BS rounds that nobody will buy anyway.

Man, if I hadn't stocked up on a shitload of ammo between 2001 and 2004, when it was cheap and readily available, I'd be in a real pickle right now. Seems like it's a challenge these days just to find enough damn ammo to load a mag with. I really feel for people who didn't have a decent ammo stockpile before all this crap started.
Link Posted: 5/24/2009 6:48:14 PM EST
It's available. I have no problem finding it. It's just expensive. More than I want to pay, especially while I have a good amount squirrled away.
Link Posted: 5/24/2009 6:51:08 PM EST
Originally Posted By Tim_the_enchanter:
It's available. I have no problem finding it. It's just expensive. More than I want to pay, especially while I have a good amount squirrled away.


Same here, I'm always looking for more but just not at these prices.
Link Posted: 5/24/2009 7:00:26 PM EST
I doubt there's EVER been any place in history that has as well armed a civilian population as the U.S. at this moment.

There's literally been several million guns and tens of millions of rounds of ammo sold in the last six months. Even manufacturers that had "prepared" pre-election were sold out before the end of January.


To directly answer your question: The ammo is piled in people's closets and basements.
Link Posted: 5/24/2009 7:08:33 PM EST
I find it hard to believe that the manufacturers in the most industrial nation in the world can not produce enough of a fairly simply product when there is a huge demand for it for almost 8 months or more. Not to mention all the investors that could double or triple their money in no time.

Something is fishy about it.
Link Posted: 5/24/2009 7:12:38 PM EST
Originally Posted By 2nd_amandment:
I find it hard to believe that the manufacturers in the most industrial nation in the world can not produce enough of a fairly simply product when there is a huge demand for it for almost 8 months or more. Not to mention all the investors that could double or triple their money in no time.

Something is fishy about it.


Yep and they are buying up all the AR parts too.

(Seriously dude. Hit a gunshow. I watched five guys buy a frigging "national guard armory" full of small arms. All paid for with plastic.... Just FYI: I'm pretty sure their tinfoil leaked worse than yours)
Link Posted: 5/24/2009 7:13:17 PM EST

The Obama administration is subsidizing ammo companies to make just enough for the military and a little left over for LEO.

They can't swing gun control but they can control the ammo flow.

Its for our own good.

Link Posted: 5/24/2009 7:22:47 PM EST
Originally Posted By kaneroy:
5.56 and .223 are showing up here and staying on the shelves, plenty to go around. the pistol ammo is hard to find though.


Same here. I haven't had trouble finding 5.56, .223 FMJ is a little more scarce, but both are plentiful compared to 9mm or .380.
Link Posted: 5/24/2009 7:25:17 PM EST
I don't know, I've been able to find.

It ain't cheap, but I can buy it when I need to.
Link Posted: 5/24/2009 7:40:26 PM EST
I have it all. I buy it for .02 cents a round under a secret contract with all the ammo manufacturers.
I swim in it like Uncle Scrooge.
Link Posted: 5/24/2009 8:03:08 PM EST
I feel pretty lucky here - my funshop now has more ammo than I've seen there in a WHILE. Everything but .380 and SR primers. Market prices apply ofcourse.....................
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 8:31:49 PM EST
Well, things have changed slightly here around Seattle since I wrote my original post. I am starting to see a decline in ammo price ($9 / 20 for XM-193 instead of $13) and an increase in inventory. I have even seen the cheap plinking ammo such as "Silver Bear" or something like that comming back on the shelves.

Phew!
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 8:49:50 PM EST
It's all in the gun stores near me.

No, really. They all have stacks and stacks of 1k boxes. PMC, Wolf, Federal, XM193, all kinds of stuff.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 9:07:44 PM EST
Originally Posted By 2nd_amandment:
I find it hard to believe that the manufacturers in the most industrial nation in the world can not produce enough of a fairly simply product when there is a huge demand for it for almost 8 months or more. Not to mention all the investors that could double or triple their money in no time.

Something is fishy about it.


Ammo manufacturing in industrial quantities isn't something you can just fire up overnight. It requires massive infrastructure, licenses, capital, and trained staff. Hazardous chemicals (primers/explosives/bullets/etc.) will need to be manufactured in house - and it's all an expensive PITA to get tooled up to make. We're talking years of lead time to achieve this - if at all. The market is being driven be irrational and unpredictable domestic panic buying. Would you invest hundreds of millions of very precious capital in 2009 to satisfy a market in 2010 that you can't possibly predict? I'm guessing panic buying that will dry up the same month Wal-mart is able to stock their shelves as fast as people buy them out. No way would I invest in a massive expansion - because that investment will be idle 6 months after going on line. I'm guessing the international suppliers will, they usually do (just look at Chinese overbuilding in all kinds of manufacturing industries). And with luck that'll provide the surplus to finally break the panic/hoarding snowball.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 9:11:34 PM EST
www.cheaperthandirt.com ~ edited by CTD
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 9:14:33 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/17/2009 9:18:10 PM EST by DarkCharisma]
I thought this was a traditional Thursday thread?

Edit: After the One was elected, AR sales went through the roof. All those guns gotta eat, in addition to the hoarders that were stockpiling at an ever increased rate.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 9:25:16 PM EST

Originally Posted By Lindy_Hoppin_Gun_Nut:
I realize there are two wars going on, but as I understand it (correct me if I am wrong), the military receive their small arms ammunition from the Lake City plant being contracted to one ammunition manufacturer (used to be Winchester, but now it's Federal?).

So how come we are still low in ammunition? We have Winchester, Federal (currently busy with gov contract) UMC, PMC, Sellier and Bellot and Wolf - those are just the ones that I know of, I bet there are plenty more out there. So again how come we are so low in ammo? Most of the ammunition manufacturers do not supply the .gov. I remember when gun shops used to be stocked solid with ammos, but now I only see a few boxes here and there.

So


First of all, Lake City Army Ammunition Plant is STILL owned by the US Army, complete with its own commanding officer and staff. The US Army contracts its operation to various civillian operators, currently that is ATK which happens to be the parent corporation of Federal Cartridge Corporation, Cascade Cartridge Incorporated, Speer Bullets and Alliant Propellents. But that DOES NOT mean Federal Cartridge or any of the other ATK companies run LCAAP. Nor are the government-owned assets used for any civillian production of ammunition. The only component of the small arms ammunition that isn't prepared on site is propellent and for 5.56 NATO, that is produced in St. Petersburg FL by Primex/St. Marks. Primex is now a General Dynamics company. Olin Inc. of East Alton IL had been making it, moving operations to Florida due to climate.

Since LCAAP is an active Army Post and all production is by law, property of the US Government, the only way for material to be diverted to civillian ownership is through a Defense Reutilization Management Office which sets the demil catagory of such materials. And since Federal Cartridge Corporation can use demil components (LCAAP cannot, per contract and tooling), they have been on the receiving end of a few DRMO bids for brass, bullets and powder. All reclaimed from pull down or never assembled into ammunition.

Furthermore, LCAAP also generates off-specification propellents. These had been disposed of through DRMO auction along with pull-down, reclaimed propellents.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 9:32:53 PM EST
The local ice cream truck.
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 10:04:16 PM EST
Originally Posted By Keith_J:

Originally Posted By Lindy_Hoppin_Gun_Nut:
I realize there are two wars going on, but as I understand it (correct me if I am wrong), the military receive their small arms ammunition from the Lake City plant being contracted to one ammunition manufacturer (used to be Winchester, but now it's Federal?).

So how come we are still low in ammunition? We have Winchester, Federal (currently busy with gov contract) UMC, PMC, Sellier and Bellot and Wolf - those are just the ones that I know of, I bet there are plenty more out there. So again how come we are so low in ammo? Most of the ammunition manufacturers do not supply the .gov. I remember when gun shops used to be stocked solid with ammos, but now I only see a few boxes here and there.

So


First of all, Lake City Army Ammunition Plant is STILL owned by the US Army, complete with its own commanding officer and staff. The US Army contracts its operation to various civillian operators, currently that is ATK which happens to be the parent corporation of Federal Cartridge Corporation, Cascade Cartridge Incorporated, Speer Bullets and Alliant Propellents. But that DOES NOT mean Federal Cartridge or any of the other ATK companies run LCAAP. Nor are the government-owned assets used for any civillian production of ammunition. The only component of the small arms ammunition that isn't prepared on site is propellent and for 5.56 NATO, that is produced in St. Petersburg FL by Primex/St. Marks. Primex is now a General Dynamics company. Olin Inc. of East Alton IL had been making it, moving operations to Florida due to climate.

Since LCAAP is an active Army Post and all production is by law, property of the US Government, the only way for material to be diverted to civillian ownership is through a Defense Reutilization Management Office which sets the demil catagory of such materials. And since Federal Cartridge Corporation can use demil components (LCAAP cannot, per contract and tooling), they have been on the receiving end of a few DRMO bids for brass, bullets and powder. All reclaimed from pull down or never assembled into ammunition.

Furthermore, LCAAP also generates off-specification propellents. These had been disposed of through DRMO auction along with pull-down, reclaimed propellents.


Do you know where i put my mag pouch?
Link Posted: 6/17/2009 10:10:17 PM EST
Private sector bought it all up. Gotta love Capitalism!

As much as I hate the price and availability of ammo, you have to love a sign that the system works.
Link Posted: 6/18/2009 12:17:52 AM EST
Originally Posted By Psychovore:
The local Wal-Mart has several thousand-round cases of PMC, but the cost is over $400.00 per case.


Your WW carries thousand round cases? Im lucky to find a box of 20 in mine.

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