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Posted: 8/25/2004 2:13:16 AM EST
It is obvious to me at this point that I do not maintain a "even keel".


I have decided to talk to my doctor about this.

I am scared and feel like I failed myself and my family...but it is obvious I have very many up and down emotions.

What do you think?


Link Posted: 8/25/2004 2:24:00 AM EST
I wouldn't feel guilty about it, everyone gets a little down from time to time.

Take a few pills and get squared away again. No biggie
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 2:24:47 AM EST
Talk to your doctor about Effexor XR. It is the first medication of many tried that seemed to work dependably. Do not overlook environmental factors. After my extremely abusive wife of nearly 30 years left and my abusive boss of 8 years was fired by his own family, my outlook improved to a point that I simply didn't know life could be so nice.

Anti-D drugs are considered maintenance medications. They help but you have to look at your thinking patterns, attitudes toward yourself and others, and the impact of certain people in your life to really get a handle on depression.

Neither counseling nor medications can be expected to work by themselves. Good counseling and good meds can dramatically change your life for the better.

BTW, it can be much harder to find a good counselor than a workable medication. Don't give up. Work for success. God be with you in your treatment.
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 2:34:06 AM EST

Originally Posted By Mahatma8Rice:
Talk to your doctor about Effexor XR.



Maybe the XR version isn't as bad but they put me on that Effexor shit a few years ago. I had to go out of town and forgot the pills. After three days I thought my head was gonna spin off. Never again. I'd rather be depressed.
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 2:40:27 AM EST
The advice for a councelor is right on! If you go that route you must be comfortable with how that person works. Look at the meds as a short term solution to a disruption which is keeping you from your self. We all have ups and downs. Some are long and some last for a while. Good luck.
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 2:45:59 AM EST
Those things are soul suckers that take the life out of you. Deal with the real underlying problems and go on with life.

wganz

Link Posted: 8/25/2004 3:04:57 AM EST
Ganz,

You seem to come across as a bit harsh. If I am wrong, please accept my apology.

You have to go on with life while getting treatment. I don't know if you are refering to the meds as "soul suckers" or the counselors. But you are correct that some meds will zombie some people out. The good news is that the medication has improved so much in the past 10 years. And the counseling theories and practices have also improved.

The meds help people function while they improve.

Some forms of depression are a result of organic conditions. People with diabetes have to change their eating habits, their attitudes toward various stimuli, and take insulin. People with chronic depression have to do much the same, except instead of insulin, they take anti-Ds.

Unless you have had depression or are clinically trained to deal with it, you may not be the best to pass judgement on treatment.

Again, if I misinterpretted the spirit of your post, I apologize.

Link Posted: 8/25/2004 3:06:43 AM EST

Originally Posted By wganz:
Those things are soul suckers that take the life out of you. Deal with the real underlying problems and go on with life.

wganz




wgnaz,
Care to tell more about the 'soul sucker' statement? Not trying to flame you, just curious.
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 10:10:28 AM EST
I've been Bi-polar for many years. When you said you have up's and down's and dont feel on an even keel it sure sounds alot like what I went threw. My Doctor perscribed Lamictal and now ........I FEEL GOOD. Don't sit back, see a doctor.....you'll be glad you did. I don't have any of the symtoms anymore.
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 10:13:42 AM EST

Originally Posted By wganz:
Those things are soul suckers that take the life out of you. Deal with the real underlying problems and go on with life.

wganz




BURN THE WITCH!!! BURN THE WITCH!!

Link Posted: 8/25/2004 10:14:17 AM EST
They depress me
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 10:21:57 AM EST
Go see a doctor. Get the pills. Take them. They aren't "happy pills," and they don't make you stupid, though they can make you sleepy at first. Some people complain of sexual problems, but the most common seems to delayed orgasm, which the Mrs. will appreciate. They are a life saver. As to the suggestion that you deal with the underlying problem, the essence of the ailment is that you spend half your trying to noodle the underlying problem, and there isn't one! You latch on to whatever you can find, thinking it must be due to something screwed up in your life, because otherwise the way you feel makes no sense. Eventually you figure out that thinking "I wish I were dead because the lawnmower won't start," is irrational too. There is a reason for the way you feel: crummy brain chemistry. The ailment is not an emotional condition but a medical one, and it can be treated effectively at unimaginable profit to the sufferer. SSRIs are lifesavers, at least in terms of the quality of life. Don't hesitate. See a doctor.
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 10:22:37 AM EST
I take em, did a helluva job evening me out. from a suicidal teen to a fairly normal young man all with just a pink pill.
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 10:22:56 AM EST
I'd take a crack at some counseling, and take a real good look at my circumstances and routines - proper rest, nutrition, enviroment are more often the cause. And if those things are reasonable, I'd seriously look into getting my brain chemistry checked.
All BEFORE I start fucking around with anti-depressants - too many horror tales associated with them, too many side effects.
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 10:24:40 AM EST


As soon as you learn "not to give a fuck" , then you won't need those.
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 10:28:32 AM EST

Originally Posted By FLAL1A:
There is a reason for the way you feel: crummy brain chemistry. The ailment is not an emotional condition but a medical one, and it can be treated effectively



exactly.

despite the morons here who will tell you you're not right with god or some foolish BS the issue is purely one of serotonin levels in the brain. adjust the chemical levels and things get better.
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 10:31:47 AM EST
Never tried them.

Will they make me happy and smile all the time like the people in the commercial?
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 10:35:06 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/25/2004 10:39:05 AM EST by AR15fan]
Try giving up alcohol, caffiene, tobacco and any street drugs first. Start going to the gym at least 45 minutes a day. That works for as many people as low dose AD meds do.

If you must medicate. Take the smallest dose possible. Ask for one that doesnt effect sexual performance. Be carefull driving on them (or handling guns).
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 10:39:09 AM EST

Originally Posted By RandallFlag:
It is obvious to me at this point that I do not maintain a "even keel".


I have decided to talk to my doctor about this.

I am scared and feel like I failed myself and my family...but it is obvious I have very many up and down emotions.

What do you think?






Some treatment for mental illnesses disqualify you from gun ownership.
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 10:41:32 AM EST
Ya know what I think? (and be sure to check for this right after) You're going to feel a lot better after you talk to your Doctor. Correct me if I'm wrong please.
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 10:43:14 AM EST
The Mrs. is a therapist, not a shrink but a counseler. I get to associate with lots of phsych types. I read lots of my wife's trade journals while holding court on my throne. So that makes me an expert...

Seek counseling. It will help in determining if you do need meds. A therapist will evaluate your situation the if they feel you need meds you will get a referal to a shrink. You definitely need to work the meds in conjunction with therapy. It will help.

Anyone who says you don't need "head pills" etc, and you just have to "man up" and deal with life is an idiot. As you probably know, the world is full of idiots...

If you feel something's wrong, seek help. Your manhood won't be diminished. You won't regret it
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 10:45:48 AM EST

Originally Posted By MetaPhaze:
Some treatment for mental illnesses disqualify you from gun ownership.



And talking to a Doctor ain't one of 'em by a long fucking shot. Sheesh.
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 10:58:14 AM EST

Originally Posted By Dolomite:

Originally Posted By MetaPhaze:
Some treatment for mental illnesses disqualify you from gun ownership.



And talking to a Doctor ain't one of 'em by a long fucking shot. Sheesh.



Nor is taking medication. IIRC, the form says someting like 'treated in a residential setting" which basically means institutionalized.

Somebody said it earlier...it's brain chemistry...there are a number of ways to fix your serotonin levels and receptors: medicine, diet, excercise, environment, etc. Something that works for one person may not work for another, and there's no shame trying all of them.

Link Posted: 8/25/2004 11:07:48 AM EST
I had a girlfriend on Paxil. (Insert Woody Woodpecker Theme here)

My analysis is that her problems were the same, she just didn't get upset about them.
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 11:23:11 AM EST
I was on them for about 9 months. They got me through a very tough time at work. Finally changed jobs and got off the things about 3 1/2 years ago.

Only a couple of things I did not like...

Not only did I not care about the work problems, but I did not give a sh*t about much of anything. I got lazy, laid around a lot and gained 20 pounds. Relationship with the family suffered too and you can't get that back.

Although they did work for me, I would not personally want to be on them long term. I'd highly recommend trying counceling and an exercise program first. Seems so many docs try to throw a bottle of pills at everything.

Hope you do OK. Good Luck!!!!
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 11:30:04 AM EST
Funny how some people say, just fix whats wrong in your life, screw your head on straight and get on with life, don't take meds.. It's these same people who have never experienced full blown depression and anxiety. My wife has gone through major anxiety problems and she is an extremely strong person, with many degrees and diplomas, very smart, unlike me. She is now doing much better and can function perfectly, thanks to therapy and anti-depressants, which she is no longer on.

My advise, see a therapist, maybe get a second opinion and follow there advise.

Good luck!
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 11:32:28 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/25/2004 11:34:56 AM EST by Mahatma8Rice]
Please ignore the nay-sayers. In particular the one boob who said all you needed to do is stop caring.....what a pompous ignoramus.

Go see a physician. Get a check up. Often what is needed is a combination of medication, counseling, and work. If you are clinically depressed, a pill will not cure you. Medicine helps. You may have to change your perception of yourself and others. Depression isn't something you can talk yourself out of, nor can anyone talk you out of it. It takes work and discipline. But as God is my witness, the pay-off is greater than you can imagine. I have gone from hopeless and suicidal to hopeful, optimistic, and enthusiastic about the future.

Depression is often a physical problem that manifests itself as a mood disorder. These dunderheads who don't know anything about mood disorders are to be avoided. Trust me, if they had a medical condition that called for drugs, they wouldn't hesitate to take them.

Link Posted: 8/25/2004 11:33:46 AM EST
Randall do you think that Antidepressants will help you not kill anymore cats?

They do wonders for many people. Its some of the BS comments and ignorance that keep some people from trying the SSRIs to get better. They are good to get you though a rough period in your life. Some people have permanant brain chemistry issues and will need them a lifetime.

Of course if you take medications and stop them cold turkey you will get withdrawl symptoms. How is that the medications fault and not you being bright enought to remember to take the medicine. Same thing will happen if you are a heavy caffiene user and you stop. You will get a HA from Hell.

Again, Randall dont shoot them cats, Peace.
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 11:33:58 AM EST
You'll be happy when they add "was prescribed anti-depressants" to the list of menal deficiencies that make it illegal for you to own guns.

Link Posted: 8/25/2004 11:36:37 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/25/2004 11:41:22 AM EST by Mahatma8Rice]
Redbeard, was your mother standing on concrete when you were born. Do you think he ought to just live with depression rather than face your imagined fear. Would you please go pack it with sand? Your comments are destructive and you ought to be ashamed.
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 11:38:09 AM EST

Originally Posted By Mahatma8Rice:
Redbeard, you are so right.




Thanks.

Link Posted: 8/25/2004 11:40:21 AM EST

Originally Posted By Tactical_Jew:
Never tried them.

Will they make me happy and smile all the time like the people in the commercial?



Probably not. I took some herpes medication so i could go swimming, rock climbing, and mountain biking like in their commercial but my ass never got off of the couch.
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 11:49:58 AM EST
yeah, one poster advised of effexor- i was on that for about a year a few years ago. tryin' to come off of that stuff is awful. i didn't find the effexor to be that helpful either. now, when i came off of the effexor and had the withdrawal they gave me 2 weeks of prozac. the prozac did help, although i mainly noticed a drastically improved attention span.

also- if you're considering a military, flight, or other career consider what this will look like on a record. when i used to fly it was almost an issue to get a FAA medical- so there are reprocussions for taking them- just somethin' else to consider.

i know a lot of people that are on them (you probably do to, whether or not you know it). i don't make any big deal out of them, but i'd be weary before you start them. it used to take about a month to get them into the system enough to where you see a difference (it's been 4-5 years since i was onthem). just read up ahead of time and if you need it, do it.

best of luck to you.

-Grant
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 11:59:44 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/25/2004 12:02:26 PM EST by corwin1968]
If you have health insurance follow whatever procedures are required to see a psychiatrist. That's an M.D. with a specialization in mental health. Despite what we would all like to believe, the average family doctor isn't well trained in mental health issues and particularly in the nuances of psychotropic medications.

If you have a family history of depression or other mental health problems it is highly likely that you have a genetic predisposition for depression. Doesn't mean you will get depressed but that you are more likely than most people to become so.

Diagnosis makes a huge difference on what type of medication you are prescribed.

I don't know anything about you but you could be looking at dysthymia which is low-grade (but still serious) depression that is persistent over long periods of time. Major depressive disorder in which serious depressive episodes are interspersed with fairly normal periods. Your mention of "up and down" brings to mind manic-depressive disorder which is possibly the mental disorder with the most proof that it's organic in nature. Finally, often adults with depression are people who have had Attention Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder their entire life. Adult anxiety and depression are often secondary to ADHD. Or it could be none of these.

If you pursue treatment, and I strongly encourage you to, make sure any long-term medication is prescribed by a psychiatrist.
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 12:01:28 PM EST
I at one time was on Zoloft. While it helped with the balancing issue of chemicals, the side effects were unbearable. I was dizzy all the time, no sex drive, massive weight gain, and sleeplisness. I talked to my doctor but he was such a boob that he didn't take into consideration any of my side effects.

Sometimes medication is necessary, but try counseling first, and if you need the pills they will help. But make sure you have a GOOD doctor/psychiatrist that knows what they are doing. Mine didn't and it really screwed me up for a while till I found a good psychologist that helped out with the other problems that added onto my depresssion.

My brother currently takes prozac and sleeps all the dang time. It might be working, but he is hardly ever awake to really know right now.
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 12:22:05 PM EST

Originally Posted By meltdown:

Originally Posted By Mahatma8Rice:
Talk to your doctor about Effexor XR.



Maybe the XR version isn't as bad but they put me on that Effexor shit a few years ago. I had to go out of town and forgot the pills. After three days I thought my head was gonna spin off. Never again. I'd rather be depressed.



No...You still need to taper off the XR's too. It works well but that is a downside to Effexor.
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 12:25:36 PM EST

Originally Posted By livefreeordieNH:

Originally Posted By FLAL1A:
There is a reason for the way you feel: crummy brain chemistry. The ailment is not an emotional condition but a medical one, and it can be treated effectively



exactly.

despite the morons here who will tell you you're not right with god or some foolish BS the issue is purely one of serotonin levels in the brain. adjust the chemical levels and things get better.



Yup...This is true.
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 6:08:24 PM EST

Originally Posted By Dolomite:

And talking to a Doctor ain't one of 'em by a long fucking shot. Sheesh.



You are correct, but remember that guy in PA who told his doc he drank a six pack a day. The doc ratted him out and they pulled his DL.
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 6:21:23 PM EST

Originally Posted By wganz:
Those things are soul suckers that take the life out of you. Deal with the real underlying problems and go on with life.

wganz




My younger sister would probably disagree with you. No, wait...she wouldn't. She'd be dead. Had it not been for intense counseling and anti-Ds she'd have OD'd or killed herself while she was in highschool.

Pills weren't the cure all, and they never are, but I'll give modern medice some credit for keeping her alive through some rather tough times.
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 6:46:27 PM EST

Originally Posted By RandallFlag:
It is obvious to me at this point that I do not maintain a "even keel".


I have decided to talk to my doctor about this.

I am scared and feel like I failed myself and my family...but it is obvious I have very many up and down emotions.

What do you think?





Smart move! Talk to the doc.
I made that decision 4 years ago and I'm here and alive today.
If you do end up taking meds to balance out it will take time. Its not like popping a pill and alls better. For me it was SSDD for about 4 weeks and then the only thing I noticed was that I didn't feel as down as I had been feeling. It does get better, and that is the important thing.
If you want to talk more about it IM me.
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 7:12:31 PM EST
I took some antidepressants when I was a kid. Looking back, it was a bunch of bullshit. The stuff that I was angry and depressed about was caused by others around me who did not want to talk about it (mostly my parents). So gee, give the kid some antidepressants. Pills do not help you deal with problems. Ymmv though.
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 7:22:45 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/25/2004 7:25:22 PM EST by twonami]
I'm on my 4th year of Prozac. Instead of being a sad grumpy bastard I'm a happy grumpy bastard
You don't feel any effects like suddenly becoming happy, thats TV bullshit. It can take 4 to 8 weeks before you notice anything and some don't respond to it at all.
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 7:41:22 PM EST
I have family that suffer or have suffered from chemical depression. My advice is to see a professional counselor or doctor and get some good professional advice.

Sometimes the body gets out of balance. Whether it's diabetes, chemical depression, Parkinson's, etc., there is no shame in getting medicine to help restore balance to the body. Sure, you do what you can with exercise, environment, etc., but don't ignore medical help when it's there for you. God has blessed us with great medical advances for a reason.

Again, there's no shame in using meds to restore balance to your body. Use wisdom and good professional advice.
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 7:51:36 PM EST

Originally Posted By Dolomite:

Originally Posted By MetaPhaze:
Some treatment for mental illnesses disqualify you from gun ownership.



And talking to a Doctor ain't one of 'em by a long fucking shot. Sheesh.



Yet.
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 7:59:37 PM EST
check your diet first - cut out caffeine, alcohol & tobacco (or at least cut back if you are an 8 cup a day person) - then look at what you are eating - lay off the sugar loaded crap and try to eat something decent. Exercise. Are you taking any other meds? Any interactions? Talk to a counselor ( to identify root causes of problems) ONLY when every other avenue is exhausted, would I seek help in the form of a pill. A very good friend went on them and she hasn't been the same since (and her doctors just swithc her from pill to pill). If you do go on them, make sure there is someone who you know & trust who can tell you honestly if the pills are making you better, or just make you think you are better. Big difference.

Good luck.

Link Posted: 8/25/2004 8:04:47 PM EST

Originally Posted By howlie:

Originally Posted By wganz:
Those things are soul suckers that take the life out of you. Deal with the real underlying problems and go on with life.

wganz



wganz,
Care to tell more about the 'soul sucker' statement? Not trying to flame you, just curious.



I may have been a bit harsh after having just dealt with my son that used those things. My X gave him pills rather having a normal home for him. Then pills lead on to other things and he just got arrested for the feces. Apologies if I did offend anyone.

I've also seen a lot of my patients in the hospital that were strung out on that krap and couldn't get out of bed without having their 'nerve pills'. Perfectly healthy people otherwise but for the d@#% pills. They are solely relying on these pills as a crutch rather than part of any therapy to deal with the underlying problems. And they are perfectly happy vegetating in their chemical bliss. They literally cry when they are discharged because they no longer have someone wait on them and bring them pills & food to their bed.

I recommend therapy with an emphasis on developing coping skills, adjusting your diet(garbage in/garbage out isn't only for computers), intake of drugs(caffeine{yes, it does affect your body chemistry}, ethanol, tobacco(nicotine is a neurotoxin)and/or recreational street drugs), environment(which may involve moving away from an area with bad friends/influences), and an exercise program(if you can physically handle it) to burn off some of the serotonin and other hormones. But just throwing hands full of pills at the problem is not going to do anything but make you a junkie. Plus the side effects may be worse than what you're trying to treat.

Does that clarify my earlier terse response?

wganz

Link Posted: 8/25/2004 8:15:52 PM EST

Originally Posted By wganz:

Originally Posted By howlie:

Originally Posted By wganz:
Those things are soul suckers that take the life out of you. Deal with the real underlying problems and go on with life.

wganz



wganz,
Care to tell more about the 'soul sucker' statement? Not trying to flame you, just curious.



I may have been a bit harsh after having just dealt with my son that used those things. My X gave him pills rather having a normal home for him. Then pills lead on to other things and he just got arrested for the feces. Apologies if I did offend anyone.

I've also seen a lot of my patients in the hospital that were strung out on that krap and couldn't get out of bed without having their 'nerve pills'. Perfectly healthy people otherwise but for the d@#% pills. They are solely relying on these pills as a crutch rather than part of any therapy to deal with the underlying problems. And they are perfectly happy vegetating in their chemical bliss. They literally cry when they are discharged because they no longer have someone wait on them and bring them pills & food to their bed.

I recommend therapy with an emphasis on developing coping skills, adjusting your diet(garbage in/garbage out isn't only for computers), intake of drugs(caffeine{yes, it does affect your body chemistry}, ethanol, tobacco(nicotine is a neurotoxin)and/or recreational street drugs), environment(which may involve moving away from an area with bad friends/influences), and an exercise program(if you can physically handle it) to burn off some of the serotonin and other hormones. But just throwing hands full of pills at the problem is not going to do anything but make you a junkie. Plus the side effects may be worse than what you're trying to treat.

Does that clarify my earlier terse response?

wganz




You have patients at a hospital?? What kind of hospital? Nothing wrong exercise, diet, lifestyle changes, but you do realize therapy requires years to really work, and most insurance carriers won't cover the cost of how much most people need.
Link Posted: 8/25/2004 9:09:49 PM EST
You shouldn't feel like you have let anyone down. It is far more common than most people realize. As far as medication is concerned, be careful. They deal with the chemical reactions and actions in your brain. It may take a few tries to get a perscription that works for you. Don't be affraid to let your doctor know if you dislike certain things about the drug, or what it does to your moods. Good luck.
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 1:56:34 PM EST
If you don't have your own, natural thoughts, what have you got? If you're up on brain pills, are the moods and thoughts yours, or is it the pills talking?

People have gotten by for thousands of years without mind medications. What's different now, that we can't?

I know I'm talking against the majority here, but, as for my own opinion, my brain chemistry is off limits.

Have you tried everything else first? Diet, work & family situation, lifestyle?

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