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Posted: 8/30/2004 4:44:57 AM EST
I'm carrying a .45 for bear while fishing in Alaska. I know it's not a ideal bear weapon, but I'm not to worried. My only question is should I load up with HP's, or FMJ's? I would guess the FMJ's because of the heavy bone, & mthick muscle. But HP's for 2 legged vermin is good as well.
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 4:45:38 AM EST
230gr FMJs !
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 4:49:34 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/30/2004 4:50:34 AM EST by mjohn3006]
Alternate

FMJ
HP
FMJ
HP
FM­J
HP
FMJ
HP

Link Posted: 8/30/2004 4:52:07 AM EST
230 gr Gold Dots, and remember to save one for yourself .
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 4:54:32 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/30/2004 4:54:50 AM EST by hk940]
can uou upgrade your springs and shoot a 460 Roland or a .45 Super?

in the lower 48 i would go hp
in Alaska FMJ.
but we are talking a 1000# plus animal! 230g fmj are not enough!
i would go with a Winchester 1300 12 gauge. folding stock. 00 buck and slugs.

Link Posted: 8/30/2004 4:59:27 AM EST
The .45 with FMJ is a good backup gun. There is no way I'd head into the Alaskan back country without a 12ga.
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 5:00:07 AM EST

Originally Posted By Glock31:
The .45 with FMJ is a good backup gun. There is no way I'd head into the Alaskan back country without a 12ga.



What about a .44 Mag with hot loads?
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 5:01:53 AM EST


Check out the pow 'r ball ammunition. I have no personal experience with it , but I've heard good things.

Pow 'R Ball
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 5:07:49 AM EST
Hornady 230Gn XTP (+P)

Or buy a .44Magnum.
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 5:09:19 AM EST
.25 ACP
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 5:10:21 AM EST

Originally Posted By mjohn3006:
Alternate

FMJ
HP
FMJ
HPFMJ
HP
FMJ
HP




yup, and a 45-70 with some 500 grainers
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 5:16:38 AM EST
I'm dreading the droves of dramatic, traumatic, and otherwise fabricated stories that will come out of this Alaska trip.
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 5:19:59 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 5:24:19 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 5:25:48 AM EST
FMJ's for penetration is more important.
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 5:26:33 AM EST

Originally Posted By Searcherfortruth:
I'm carrying a .45 for bear while fishing in Alaska. I know it's not a ideal bear weapon, but I'm not to worried. My only question is should I load up with HP's, or FMJ's? I would guess the FMJ's because of the heavy bone, & mthick muscle. But HP's for 2 legged vermin is good as well.



With the rare exception, cranking off a couple of shots over a bear w/ a .45 is ample for getting it's attention and getting it heading in the opposite direction. 99% of the time that is sufficient. If you're river fishing, and you accumulate a pile of fish on the bank, your best bet in the event a bear shows itself is to slowly back away from the fish and cut your losses. In all likelyhood, the bear will have you and your fish spotted long before you know he/she is around. Tree's and cover would probably have the bear a lot closer to you than you'd imagine possible for such a large animal.

Actually shooting the bear with a .45 is flat out stupid. There's no reason to shoot a bear in the first place. You're fishing, not hunting. No point in injuring/angering an Alaskan bear over a few fish. Consider it coming with the territory you chose to put yourself in.

Forget hollow points. A) Not nearly as effective on large animals due to penetration limitations. B) Human threats are not only minimal in AK, but FMJ out of a .45 is plenty to get their attention as well.
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 5:29:44 AM EST

Originally Posted By Specop_007:

Originally Posted By Glock31:
The .45 with FMJ is a good backup gun. There is no way I'd head into the Alaskan back country without a 12ga.



What about a .44 Mag with hot loads?



Much better than a .45, but IMO it still doesn't take the place of a 12ga with 3" slugs or 00 buck.
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 5:42:04 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 5:51:19 AM EST
file down your front sight
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 5:58:17 AM EST

Originally Posted By JTAC_Supply:
I'd go with the 12 gauge also, of course you could make a brain shot with the .45, but you may have to fire it from inside the grizzlies mouth...



You do realize than a .45ACP FMJ will penetrate deeper than 12 Gauge 00 Buck or Foster slugs?
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 6:20:42 AM EST
If I were going on a fishing trip and had to worry about what kind of bullets to use, I dont think I'd have much Fun fishing ,with the thought of some bear having me for Lunch
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 6:22:47 AM EST
For bear protection, I suggest double wrapping with Trojans.

You'll only need one round, in the chamber. Doesn't matter if it's FMJ or HP...... They both work for seppuku.


Since you don't have a 12ga, the .45 will have to do with FMJ. I suggest you learn as much as possible about bears before heading out, because it could prove to be more important than the caliber you carry.
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 6:25:51 AM EST
A .45. I suggest Nike Air Pegasus. You will need 'em after you piss the bear off by shooting it 7 times. Remember to yell, "Oh my God, it's comming at me!" and fire at will.
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 6:27:03 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/30/2004 6:29:38 AM EST by JTAC_Supply]
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 6:38:27 AM EST

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By JTAC_Supply:
I'd go with the 12 gauge also, of course you could make a brain shot with the .45, but you may have to fire it from inside the grizzlies mouth...



You do realize than a .45ACP FMJ will penetrate deeper than 12 Gauge 00 Buck or Foster slugs?


Which will cause more damage to you, a hat pin driven 3 in. into your chest, or a golf ball driven 3 in. into your chest? 12 ga. rules in this case.
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 6:43:20 AM EST

Originally Posted By livefreeordieNH:
file down your front sight




BWAHAHAHAHA!!!!

I see someone else also read the SBS article in MGN a few years ago.
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 6:49:59 AM EST
Bullet dosen't matter but never go into bear country without another person. Shoot your partner (prefferably ex wife) in the knee and you are home free.

Hunter out...
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 7:05:24 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/30/2004 7:05:38 AM EST by bsbg]

Originally Posted By MindHunter:
Bullet dosen't matter but never go into bear country without another person. Shoot your partner (prefferably ex wife) in the knee and you are home free.

Hunter out...



As the old joke goes - "don't have to out run the bear, just have to out run you!
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 7:06:15 AM EST
I'd go with the flat point 230 gr fmjs made by Nosler and Hornady.

Or better yet, a hard cast load like the Lyman 452423. That's a Keith 240 gr SWC with a very large metplat.

And I'd really learn where you want to aim. Only CNS hits will take the bear out quick. From the front, my undertanding is that the target is between the eyes and the nose. Shooting above the eyes at the forehead is essentially a miss, and a big part of the reason the big bears have a bad rep with respect to head shots. I have been told that the Alaskian State Troopers determined that ordinary handgun rounds will penetrait even very large bear skulls, but you need to know where to shoot so as not to miss the brain. This is all second hand info, so I suggest you research this before you go.
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 7:17:58 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/30/2004 7:24:37 AM EST by scrum]
Big bottle of bear spray repellant, and 230gr +P Jacketed HPs. JHPs will penatrate the skull just fine - just make sure they cycle reliably in the pistol you use. Neither JHP or FMJ is really going to make a tactical difference without placement. Of course, if you aren't accurate, a 12 ga with bear slugs isn't going to help either.

That said, one of the largest browns on record was taken in a cabin with a .22LR (by an old lady no less)!

Neither will help you deter a bear that has really decided you are on its list of things to remove from the surface of the earth, but for the "moderate" bears this election season, the above might just do the trick.

Good luck and have fun.
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 7:29:09 AM EST
Be very very careful when fishing with firearms. I tried that that a few months ago and....
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 7:35:50 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/30/2004 8:21:13 AM EST by sterling18]
Fishing is fun but having to worry about Yogi? Interesting
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 10:43:12 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/30/2004 10:47:40 AM EST by AR15fan]

Originally Posted By JTAC_Supply:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By JTAC_Supply:
I'd go with the 12 gauge also, of course you could make a brain shot with the .45, but you may have to fire it from inside the grizzlies mouth...



You do realize than a .45ACP FMJ will penetrate deeper than 12 Gauge 00 Buck or Foster slugs?



Actually I've never done any comparisons, but I don't see .45 FMJ doing the job quickly enough if the situation gets to that point. You're not saying that a .45 FMJ will penetrate with more energy to the vitals than a shotgun slug are you.



I'm saying that conventional slugs and buckshot are marginal when it comes to penetration. I've used them to kill a couple dozen big game animals. The Foster slug flattens into a donut shape on impact and doesnt pentrate particularly well. They will not even exit a white tail deer 100% of the time. In shooting big game animals I have gotten much better penetration with .410 - .451 caliber projectiles weighing 210 -255Gn, even when loaded at under 1000FPS.

Now a proper Brennekke slug design penetrates pretty good. but Brennekke slugs are seldom used becuase they can be hard to find and they are so much more expensive than the Foster type.

I dont understand "will penetrate with more energy to the vitals" Energy is meaningless when it comes to terminal performance. The actual tissue destroyed is all that matters. A .45 slug that reaches the heart is much more effective than a foster shotgun slug that flattens on impact and never reaches the vitals.
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 10:44:45 AM EST

Originally Posted By Wraith:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By JTAC_Supply:
I'd go with the 12 gauge also, of course you could make a brain shot with the .45, but you may have to fire it from inside the grizzlies mouth...



You do realize than a .45ACP FMJ will penetrate deeper than 12 Gauge 00 Buck or Foster slugs?


Which will cause more damage to you, a hat pin driven 3 in. into your chest, or a golf ball driven 3 in. into your chest? 12 ga. rules in this case.



Go shoot a couple dozen big game animals with a 12 gauge then get back to me on shotshell performance.
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 10:51:32 AM EST

Originally Posted By livefreeordieNH:
file down your front sight



+1 :)

I was waiting for that post
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 11:00:48 AM EST
Buy a LAR grizzly in 45 win mag...300 grain steel core penetrator at 1800 fps...flying ashtray!!! that has always worked for me!!
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 11:20:53 AM EST

Originally Posted By markm:
I'm dreading the droves of dramatic, traumatic, and otherwise fabricated stories that will come out of this Alaska trip.



Last time I went I caught a 305. 04 pound halibut, now that was drama little girl.
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 11:26:58 AM EST
45 ball works just fine on humans too, don't be too concerned with that aspect.
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 11:30:16 AM EST
I've been to Alaska 8 times with this trip. I do know about bears, behavior, & protection. I just have never relied on just a .45. I have a .375 H&H mag, & a few other rifles I could take. My guid for the little Susitna river told me bears were not really a problem so I comfortable with just the pistol to carry. Most likely see black bears anyway, & a .45 to the grape would work wonders on them. I think I'll go with the IMI FMJ's I have 100 rnds packed for carry & target shooting. I'm also taking my new WaltherP-22 to try out. I have 1,000 rds of stinger ammo packed for it.

I'm not a novice3, I've been hanging out in the back country since I was 9 yrs old.
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 11:37:27 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/30/2004 11:40:47 AM EST by Dave_A]

Originally Posted By Searcherfortruth:
I'm carrying a .45 for bear while fishing in Alaska. I know it's not a ideal bear weapon, but I'm not to worried. My only question is should I load up with HP's, or FMJ's? I would guess the FMJ's because of the heavy bone, & mthick muscle. But HP's for 2 legged vermin is good as well.



Doesn't matter...

8rds of .45ACP is effectively 'No Gun' when dealing with bear...

30-06
12GA
Maybe a LONG BARREL (6"+) .44 mag, if you can hit accurately...

But a 1911? Might as well not...

Link Posted: 8/30/2004 11:42:11 AM EST

Originally Posted By sterling18:
Fishing is fun but having to worry about Yogi? Interesting



In AK, of course, the bears like fishing as much as the people do...

Occasionally, they pick the same fishing spots...
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 12:34:04 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/30/2004 12:35:55 PM EST by Searcherfortruth]

Originally Posted By Dave_A:

Originally Posted By Searcherfortruth:
I'm carrying a .45 for bear while fishing in Alaska. I know it's not a ideal bear weapon, but I'm not to worried. My only question is should I load up with HP's, or FMJ's? I would guess the FMJ's because of the heavy bone, & mthick muscle. But HP's for 2 legged vermin is good as well.



Doesn't matter...

8rds of .45ACP is effectively 'No Gun' when dealing with bear...

30-06
12GA
Maybe a LONG BARREL (6"+) .44 mag, if you can hit accurately...

But a 1911? Might as well not...




To be truthfull a .44 mag is not bear worthy either. Like I said, I've been there 7 times already, & have camped in the bush, & been flown out & dropped of in grizzly country many times. I'm not expecting a bear problem, as they are rare, I just wonderd what you all thought would be best. HP's, or FMJ's. I'm not going to bring a long gun with me, & I'm perfectly comfortable with that. I also don't have the money to buy a gun in a larger calibre right now. I'm just going to take my .45 for a just in case, as it's better than a rock when it comes to giving me some piece of mind.

Oh yeah,...& like I said, an incounter with a blackie is muchmore likely, so a .45 will be good fodder for his head or body at close range that an attack would take place in.
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 12:36:03 PM EST
FMJ
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 12:38:19 PM EST

Originally Posted By Dave_A:

Originally Posted By Searcherfortruth:
I'm carrying a .45 for bear while fishing in Alaska. I know it's not a ideal bear weapon, but I'm not to worried. My only question is should I load up with HP's, or FMJ's? I would guess the FMJ's because of the heavy bone, & mthick muscle. But HP's for 2 legged vermin is good as well.



Doesn't matter...

8rds of .45ACP is effectively 'No Gun' when dealing with bear...

30-06
12GA
Maybe a LONG BARREL (6"+) .44 mag, if you can hit accurately...

But a 1911? Might as well not...




How many big game animals have you killed with a handgun?
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 12:45:29 PM EST

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By Dave_A:

Originally Posted By Searcherfortruth:
I'm carrying a .45 for bear while fishing in Alaska. I know it's not a ideal bear weapon, but I'm not to worried. My only question is should I load up with HP's, or FMJ's? I would guess the FMJ's because of the heavy bone, & mthick muscle. But HP's for 2 legged vermin is good as well.



Doesn't matter...

8rds of .45ACP is effectively 'No Gun' when dealing with bear...

30-06
12GA
Maybe a LONG BARREL (6"+) .44 mag, if you can hit accurately...

But a 1911? Might as well not...




How many big game animals have you killed with a handgun?



Me? I shot a deer with a .44 mag, & a an Alaskan Bull moose with a .44 mag. Many of my friends in Wi have killed blackies witrh .44 mag as well.
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 12:59:28 PM EST
.50 beowulf
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 1:27:37 PM EST

Originally Posted By Dave_A:

Originally Posted By Searcherfortruth:
I'm carrying a .45 for bear while fishing in Alaska. I know it's not a ideal bear weapon, but I'm not to worried. My only question is should I load up with HP's, or FMJ's? I would guess the FMJ's because of the heavy bone, & mthick muscle. But HP's for 2 legged vermin is good as well.



Doesn't matter...

8rds of .45ACP is effectively 'No Gun' when dealing with bear...

30-06
12GA
Maybe a LONG BARREL (6"+) .44 mag, if you can hit accurately...

But a 1911? Might as well not...




Let's put it this way . . . between no gun or a 1911, I'd choose 1911.

As I previously mentioned, the Alaskian State Troopers seem to think that typical issue sidearms will work on a large bear skull . . . placement is key, but that is also true of .30-06 and 12 Gage.

I'm not sure why such long barreled .44 would be an advantage. I'd rather have a 5" .44 loaded with some really heavy hard-cast bullets at a moderate velocity than some long barreled revolver attempting to get the last fps.

Incidently, in a previous bear discussion on this site, a bear attack survivor (who at the time had a web site dedicated to bear attacks) said that after his attack, he decided he would want a DA (as opposed to SA) revolver: if the bear gets you you are going to have trouble thumbcocking a revolver. Incidentially, he was a big game humter but wasn't able to use his rifle in the initial attack, and he was the one who mentioned the Alaskian State Trooper data indicating that standard service sidearms will penetrait a large bear skull.
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 2:04:06 PM EST
I've caught some fine Salmon from the Lil Sue.
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 2:31:02 PM EST

Originally Posted By AZ-K9:
I've caught some fine Salmon from the Lil Sue.



Soon,....I shall say likewise.
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 2:58:06 PM EST
Since everyone on this board can make those impossible shots in their sleep I would suggest a FN90, the uber-penetrating 5.7mm round will easily zip through the skull killing the beast instantly.

Link Posted: 8/30/2004 3:13:08 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/30/2004 3:14:04 PM EST by Searcherfortruth]

Originally Posted By GaryM:
Since everyone on this board can make those impossible shots in their sleep I would suggest a FN90, the uber-penetrating 5.7mm round will easily zip through the skull killing the beast instantly.


.

I already said I don't have the money for a new gun, & I'm not bringing a long gun with me, or elsed I'd take my .375 H&H mag. Thats good fer bars pilgrim!
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