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11/22/2017 10:05:29 PM
Posted: 10/26/2004 7:22:15 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 7:25:55 PM EST
http://img98.exs.cx/img98/6198/kerry_skip.jpg


Yea, But They Are the Same Douche Bags Claiming That This Asshat Will Be the Savior of America!!
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 7:27:43 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 7:28:45 PM EST

Originally Posted By HiramRanger:
Yeah well it would be nice if we knew the fucking facts to refute their claims... the fact that they are douche bags doesn't cut it.



Shit... and I thought that was the "Universally Accepted Rebuttal of Choice"!!
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 7:29:03 PM EST
i think the mere fact that there is controversy negates the story to the popular public. majority will write it off as dirty politics.
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 7:33:55 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/26/2004 7:37:22 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/26/2004 7:39:15 PM EST by Dave_A]
It would also be useful to point out that these were not some 'Ultra-special, super secret, uberpowerful explosives' that were removed...

Someone should explain to 60 Minutes what RDX is, and how easy it is to get some on the international arms market...

To sum it up, 'Saddam had his goons pack a few truckloads of C-4 to Syria'...

Woooh-weee... As if there isn't enough C-4 in Iraq's myriad of ammo dumps that people would steal it to sell on the black market...

And if the insurgents had METRIC TONS of C-4, why the hell are they using unexploded ordinance to make truck bombs? I mean, if you have enough RDX to fill the back of a truck, why don't you blow something up with it, instead of using daisy-chained 155mm shells for a payload?
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 5:42:27 AM EST
From what I have heard the area was under 3rd ID control and then handed over to the 101st. It was never out of Army control after late April, and there is no way that 300+ could be removed in a week without someone noticing it. The blogs are all over this, check:

instapundit.com

3rd ID found some powder which might have been explosives but not a 300 ton stash:

www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/002872.php

Impossible to move that much explosive without being discovered:

www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/002869.php

US asked the UN to destroy this arms cache in 1995:

www.nysun.com/article/3826


Link Posted: 10/27/2004 5:46:21 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 6:07:41 AM EST
Supposedly the 3rd ID found this when they arrived:

Link Posted: 10/27/2004 6:30:29 AM EST
From what I understand (I don't know SH*T about explosives in their raw form: Qualifier) the material was IN raw form and was "Explosive" in about the same measure as wheat flour is BREAD.

What I find SOOO interesting though is that the tags and labels that were on the bunkers were from the I-AEA (The I-AEA was concerned that the material could be fabricated into explosive lenses for nuclear weapons[That'd be a weapon of mass-destruction ya know]).

So, 380 metric tonnes of (Cough...Weapons of mass destruction...cough) this stuff (According to the dims) just "Vanished" (?).........hmmmmmmmmm........Let's see..."There were NO weapons of mass-destruction....there were no weapons of.......

Jesus I can't wait 'till this last week is over!
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 6:30:47 AM EST

Originally Posted By HiramRanger:
DUh is claiming that US troops were there a week before NBC arrived with the troops, and they saw looters all over the facility. Seems to be nobody can figure out what the hell was going on when and where.



HR,

I'll see if I can find out anything on April 3, but in the mean time do yourself a favor and stay away from the Dark-Side (DU). Anything on that site is total propaganda. A good friend of mine (wink-wink) was an adamant cut-and-paste disrupter (1500+ posts) on the Dark-Side and was tombstoned seven times over the course of 2 years. He barely survived the experience.

The only reason I ever go to DU is to see them squirm on Good (Bush) news. Currently they are totally deluded and on the verge of anarchy.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 6:36:35 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/27/2004 6:38:45 AM EST by bluduk15]

Originally Posted By HiramRanger:
DUh is claiming that US troops were there a week before NBC arrived with the troops, and they saw looters all over the facility. Seems to be nobody can figure out what the hell was going on when and where.



I think this is what they're talking about. RDX is usually indentifiable by its white crystalline powder form. The 3ID found thousands of small boxes with vials of white powder. This doesn't look good, but it could be anything.

bd

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0%2C2933%2C83252%2C00.html?PHPSESSID=31de359de8c00deeae8736813c3f3beb

Allie­s Find Signs of Iraq's Chemical Preparedness
Friday, April 04, 2003

Where the Troops Are

As the military advances closer to Baghdad, signs of Iraqi chemical preparedness are multiplying, although there is still no conclusive evidence Saddam Hussein's regime possesses weapons of mass destruction.

On Friday, troops at a training facility in the western Iraqi desert came across a bottle labeled "tabun" -- a nerve gas and chemical weapon Iraq is banned from possessing.

Closer to Baghdad, troops at Iraq's largest military industrial complex found nerve agent antidotes, documents describing chemical warfare and a white powder that appeared to be used for explosives.

U.N. weapons inspectors went repeatedly to the vast al Qa Qaa complex -- most recently on March 8 -- but found nothing during spot visits to some of the 1,100 buildings at the site 25 miles south of Baghdad.

Col. John Peabody, engineer brigade commander of the 3rd Infantry Division, said troops found thousands of 2-by-5-inch boxes, each containing three vials of white powder, together with documents written in Arabic that dealt with how to engage in chemical warfare.

Initial reports suggest the powder is an explosive, but tests are still being done, a senior U.S. official said. If confirmed, it would be consistent with what the Iraqis say is the plant's purpose, producing explosives and propellants.


According to U.N. weapons inspectors, who spoke on condition of anonymity, the Iraqis filled warheads and artillery shells with explosives at the site and manufactured bomb casings there. The activities, for conventional weaponry, were allowed under U.N. resolutions. But the resolutions, passed after the 1991 Gulf War, ban Iraq from possessing chemical, biological and nuclear weapons and the long-range missiles to deliver them.

Peabody told an Associated Press reporter that troops at al Qa Qaa also discovered atropine, used to counter the effects of nerve agents, and 2-PAM chloride, which is used in combination with atropine in case of chemical attack.

The presence of atropine, and the discovery of gas masks and chemical suits earlier in the war, could indicate Iraq was preparing to use chemical weapons.

For years, the al Qa Qaa site has raised the suspicions of weapons inspectors who believed the facilities could be converted for the production of missiles and chemical and nuclear weapons. It was visited repeatedly during the 1990s and during the last cycle of inspections -- between Nov. 27 and March 17 -- when U.N. experts went to the complex more than 10 times.

According to a British dossier on Iraq published last September, parts of al Qa Qaa's chemical complex, destroyed in 1991, were repaired and are now operational, including a production plant for the chemical weapon phosgene.

Nuclear inspectors believe an area of the complex was involved in designing an atomic bomb before Iraq's nuclear program was destroyed by U.N. teams after the 1991 Gulf War. The facility also made lenses and other components that can be used to trigger nuclear explosions.

In March 1990, customs officers at Heathrow Airport in London seized a case of capacitors -- components for triggers in nuclear weapons -- bound for al Qa Qaa that were especially designed for detonating nuclear warheads.

Inspectors had installed cameras and sensors around the complex after the Gulf War but the Iraqis dismantled the equipment when inspectors left in 1998. The U.N. inspectors who returned in November had planned to install new monitoring equipment but ran out of time.

Much is riding on the disarmament process.

The United States believes Iraq has chemical and biological weapons and a reviving nuclear weapons program.

But the Bush administration was unable to convince much of the world in the run-up to the war.

Countries including France and Russia blocked the United States from winning U.N. support for the war partly because they saw no proof that Iraq possessed such weapons. The chief weapons inspectors reported several times that they had found nothing to support the administration's claims.

So far, invading U.S. forces have not found chemical or biological weapons. Officials and former weapons inspectors have said discoveries were likely to be made closer to Baghdad. Several large facilities, such as al Qa Qaa, are within 50 miles of the capital.

"We believe that this regime does possess weapons of mass destruction, we remain convinced of that," U.S. Brig. Gen. Vincent Brooks said Friday. He said some weapons may have been pulled into the Baghdad area, "either delivery systems, or, potentially, storage systems."

But a discovery far from the Iraqi capital was made Friday when troops in the western desert came across what they believe is a training center for nuclear, chemical and biological warfare, Brooks said.

One bottle found at the site was labeled "tabun" -- a nerve agent that the U.S. government says may have been used during the 1980-88 Iran-Iraq war. There was no way to immediately confirm whether the substance was indeed tabun and soldiers found only a small amount, indicating the site was meant for training, not storing or deploying chemical weapons, Brooks said.

"In that particular site, we believe that was the only sample," he said. "That's why we believe it was a training site. Our conclusion is that this was not a (weapons of mass destruction) site ... it proved to be far less than that."

Photos of the site showed shelves of brown bottles with yellow labels. Brooks said troops did not understand some of the labels and were collecting the bottles for examination.

Iraq declared to U.N. inspectors the overall production of 3,859 tons of chemical weapons agents. According to Iraq's declarations, mustard, tabun and sarin were produced in large quantities. Iraq also admitted production of 3.9 tons of the deadly nerve agent VX.

Subsequently, inspectors destroyed 116 tons of tabun and more than 1,000 tons of ingredients for brewing up the nerve gas.

Iraq has repeatedly claimed that it destroyed its unconventional weapons programs after 1991. The claim was voiced again on April 1 by Iraqi Vice President Taha Yassin Ramadan. Referring to the gas masks and other chemical gear found by advancing coalition troops, he suggested U.S. forces were planning to plant evidence to implicate Iraq.

"Let me say one more time that Iraq is free of weapons of mass destruction," he said. "The aggressors may themselves intend to bring those materials to plant them here and say those are weapons of mass destruction."

Link Posted: 10/27/2004 6:37:17 AM EST

Originally Posted By Treadhead:
From what I understand (I don't know SH*T about explosives in their raw form: Qualifier) the material was IN raw form and was "Explosive" in about the same measure as wheat flour is BREAD.

What I find SOOO interesting though is that the tags and labels that were on the bunkers were from the I-AEA (The I-AEA was concerned that the material could be fabricated into explosive lenses for nuclear weapons[That'd be a weapon of mass-destruction ya know]).

So, 380 metric tonnes of (Cough...Weapons of mass destruction...cough) this stuff (According to the dims) just "Vanished" (?).........hmmmmmmmmm........Let's see..."There were NO weapons of mass-destruction....there were no weapons of.......

Jesus I can't wait 'till this last week is over!




Ain't THAT the truth!

As for the reporters, they were embedded with the troops. They got there the same day our troops did.

I just heard a report that John Kerry had been seen raping kittens and then killing them in Vietnam while his head spun around. Of course, the media got there three days later, so the story goes, and that's why we can't find proof of it. As such, it MUST be true!

Only on DUh is a complete LACK of evidence total PROOF of something having happened. Meanwhile, OJ is innocent.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 6:40:23 AM EST

Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:
Supposedly the 3rd ID found this when they arrived:






Man, that guy's been everywhere!!
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 6:41:35 AM EST

Originally Posted By bluduk15:
As the military advances closer to Baghdad, signs of Iraqi chemical preparedness are multiplying, although there is still no conclusive evidence Saddam Hussein's regime possesses weapons of mass destruction.

On Friday, troops at a training facility in the western Iraqi desert came across a bottle labeled "tabun" -- a nerve gas and chemical weapon Iraq is banned from possessing.

Closer to Baghdad, troops at Iraq's largest military industrial complex found nerve agent antidotes, documents describing chemical warfare and a white powder that appeared to be used for explosives.

U.N. weapons inspectors went repeatedly to the vast al Qa Qaa complex -- most recently on March 8 -- but found nothing during spot visits to some of the 1,100 buildings at the site 25 miles south of Baghdad.

Col. John Peabody, engineer brigade commander of the 3rd Infantry Division, said troops found thousands of 2-by-5-inch boxes, each containing three vials of white powder, together with documents written in Arabic that dealt with how to engage in chemical warfare.



But remember, THEY NEVER HAD ANY INTENTION of using chemical weapons!

Nope! Those Kurds they "gassed" were just props set up by Haliburton in order to give Bush a reason to invade Iraq and enrich the company 11 years later, yes sir!
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 6:52:45 AM EST
here is a chronology : I hope it helps

March 3, 2003 Atomic Energy Agency checked that security seals placed

April 10, 2003 2nd Brigade of the 101st Airborne Division reached the site

May 2003, the IAEA relayed concerns to the U.S. govt about the stockpile falling into the wrong hands

May 27, 2003 U.S. exploitation team looking for WMD searched all 32 bunkers and 87 buildings

Source below

Pentagon officials argue it's more likely the explosives were moved as part of the prewar dispersal ordered by Saddam Hussein. That would have come sometime after March 3, 2003, the last time the International Atomic Energy Agency checked that security seals placed on the bunkers were in tact and before the war actually began March 20.

On April 10 of 2003, the day after the fall of Baghdad, troops from the 2nd Brigade of the 101st Airborne Division reached the site. No weapons under IAEA seal were found, but the soldiers were advancing on Baghdad and officials acknowledge they didn't conduct a thorough inspection.

Sometime in the next month, May 2003, the IAEA says it relayed concerns to the U.S. government about the stockpile falling into the wrong hands.

Finally, on May 27, more than six weeks after the April visit, a special U.S. exploitation team looking for weapons of mass destruction searched all 32 bunkers and 87 buildings. Again, the stockpile was not found.

While Pentagon officials admit the facility was not completely secured between April 10 and May 27, they say many U.S. troops remained in the general area, and, although small-scale looting was certainly possible, officials scoff at the idea the large number of heavy trucks that would have been required to transport the 380 tons of missing explosives could have been moved into and out of the facility unnoticed during that time.

Link Posted: 10/27/2004 6:57:56 AM EST
well, seeing as I was with 3ID when this was going on....
I remember hearing about the vials being found, they were written off as decon kits. nothing about huge cache's of explosives at all. granted I was with 3-15 Infantry, and not the Engineer brigade. just my $0.02
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 7:19:56 AM EST

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:
well, seeing as I was with 3ID when this was going on....
I remember hearing about the vials being found, they were written off as decon kits. nothing about huge cache's of explosives at all. granted I was with 3-15 Infantry, and not the Engineer brigade. just my $0.02



Exactly. Whatever the vials of white powder were (see post above), DU wankers will make the connection because RDX is sometimes in powder form. Doesn't seem likely that explosives would be stored in small vials and have no identifiable symbols or markings even if the writing was in Arabic. It's even less likely that they moved 380 mt of it out without some kind of contact with US Troops on the roads in or out or to its final destination. Think about it, if they actually got it loaded into trucks not one single truckload got stopped or shot up while driving through a battlefield where there was very scarce traffic and every vehicle was suspicious.

Doesn't make sense that this stuff disappeared from under the military's grasp in the short window that they are alleging.

bd

Link Posted: 10/27/2004 7:22:28 AM EST

Originally Posted By HiramRanger:

Originally Posted By EternallyIndebted:

Originally Posted By HiramRanger:
Yeah well it would be nice if we knew the fucking facts to refute their claims... the fact that they are douche bags doesn't cut it.



Shit... and I thought that was the "Universally Accepted Rebuttal of Choice"!!



You are new here, so I'll just answer that no... it is not my universally accepted rebuttal of choice.



I'm new here and it didn't take me long to realize you lack the sense for humor.

Link Posted: 10/27/2004 7:24:52 AM EST
The answer is how many bodies where there? If US Troops saw looting of an instillation they were occupying, they would have shot them. That shit was moved to Syria, just like the chembio shit.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 7:46:00 AM EST
OK, let's assume US troops didn't get there by the time the RDX had been moved out. So, due to the collapse of the Saddam regime, either Saddam's minions or others moved 300+ tons of high explosives to Syria or another location where they could now be given to terrorists (or are already in their hands). That's 300+ tons that Saddam had in storage and wasn't going anywhere. And it only took one pound of Semtex - that's 1/2000th of a ton - to bring down PanAm flight 103.

So how has Bush's invasion of Iraq made us SAFER?

Link Posted: 10/27/2004 7:51:38 AM EST
wait wait wait
unless this bunker was near Karbala, 2bct 3ID was just going through the Karbala gap on the 2nd of April. if this bunker was in baghdad, we were nowhere near it.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 8:01:59 AM EST

Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:
OK, let's assume US troops didn't get there by the time the RDX had been moved out. So, due to the collapse of the Saddam regime, either Saddam's minions or others moved 300+ tons of high explosives to Syria or another location where they could now be given to terrorists (or are already in their hands). That's 300+ tons that Saddam had in storage and wasn't going anywhere. And it only took one pound of Semtex - that's 1/2000th of a ton - to bring down PanAm flight 103.

So how has Bush's invasion of Iraq made us SAFER?




One way is that a lot of the islamofacists are tied up in Iraq. Btw, a stick of dynamite can bring an airliner down. That statement about the semtex is just a dem scare tactic.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 8:07:30 AM EST
I think in Olie's book he was with the 101st when they went to the ammo dump.
Link Posted: 10/27/2004 8:10:06 AM EST
I am sorry. I cannot confirm this.
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