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Posted: 6/2/2009 3:55:43 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/2/2009 4:02:36 PM EST by not_sure]
http://www.ktul.com/news/stories/0509/626531.html?ref=em


Paden - A paramedic could face charges after a scuffle with a state trooper that was caught on cell phone camera.

It happened Sunday near Paden in Okfuskee County. That's about 70 miles southwest of Tulsa.

Kenyada Davis' mother was being transported in the ambulance and recorded the incident on his cell phone camera.

"This highway patrolman pulled over my mom's ambulance because he was mad we didn't pull over and he's trying to arrest the EMT from taking my mother to the hospital," Davis is seen saying on the recording.

Davis continues to record as first, one trooper can be seen talking to one of the paramedics. A couple of minutes later, another trooper is seen confronting another paramedic and attempting to arrest him. The paramedic can be seen shoving the trooper at which time the scuffle breaks out.

Maurice White, Jr. is the critical care paramedic seen in the video. In a statement, White says the trooper was upset because the ambulance driver didn't yield when the trooper approached from behind. White says the ambulance driver, Paul Franks, didn't see the trooper.

The trooper pulled Franks over and was going to write a citation for failure to yield, but White says he tried to tell them they were on an emergency call and needed to take the patient to the hospital and that's when the trooper attempted to arrest White for obstructing an officer.

A brief struggle followed, at which point the trooper grabbed White by the throat. Davis' cell phone captured this incident on video. White says the trooper later told him they could continue on to the hospital, but that he would be under arrest once they got there. White was never arrested, but says troopers told him he should be prepared to turn himself in if a warrant was issued.

The district attorney in Okfuskee County is expected to take a look at the video and may file charges as soon as this week.


So, who should have right away and why? I would say fire first because of the damage both to property and people and they are the least maneuverable and slowest to accelerate, second would be the ambulance, leaving the cops third.

Link Posted: 6/2/2009 3:58:22 PM EST
well here in delaware ambulance doesnt even make it on the list, you dont legally have to pull over or even get out of the way
Link Posted: 6/2/2009 4:01:20 PM EST
ambulances usually win around here.

i've come to an intersection with cops and fire trucks with lights on. everyone heading in a different direction. they let me go first.




Now, these stupid fucking idiot drivers around here don't move out of the way for anyone, and many will look right at me, and pull out in front of me with a smile on their face the whole time.

Or, they'll slow to a crawl through the intersection I'm trying to clear with a big grin on their face while staring straight at me.

Link Posted: 6/2/2009 4:02:40 PM EST
The postal vehicle. It's federal.
Link Posted: 6/2/2009 4:03:38 PM EST
That trooper is an ass.
Link Posted: 6/2/2009 4:04:38 PM EST
Originally Posted By Swatter911:
The postal vehicle. It's federal.


This.
Link Posted: 6/2/2009 4:04:54 PM EST
In the situation you're referencing, the ambulance was not running code (no lights, no sirens), so any vehicle who WAS running code would have ROW. However, when we've had more than one entity running code to the same call or just in the same area, it's really who's in front.
Link Posted: 6/2/2009 4:05:31 PM EST
The biggest vehicle should have the right of way.
Link Posted: 6/2/2009 4:05:56 PM EST
Cop couldn't have been going to that big an emergency if he had time to pull over an ambulance transporting a patient to the hospital.
Link Posted: 6/2/2009 4:08:33 PM EST
Me.
Link Posted: 6/2/2009 4:18:52 PM EST
fire. there way cooler than the rest.
if you dont believe me watch fireman vs policeman on you tube.
Link Posted: 6/2/2009 4:18:55 PM EST
Having assisted with some EMS, I'd say ambulance... With an ambulance you know somebody is in trouble. I mean, a police car running lights and sirens could be anything from a shooting to a drunk pissing on a mail box. A fire truck hauling ass through a intersection could be the local orphanage caught on fire, or a storage shed. But they don't roll ambulances unless somebody got fucked up.
Link Posted: 6/2/2009 4:43:52 PM EST
Police should have right of way....were the ones with the guns
Link Posted: 6/2/2009 4:48:47 PM EST
I will go with ambulance every time. When their lights are on it means they are either on the way to assist a person in dire straits or they are transporting said person to a hospital.
Link Posted: 6/2/2009 4:50:10 PM EST
Whoever has the vehicle with the most mass.
Link Posted: 6/2/2009 4:51:31 PM EST
Originally Posted By LARRYG:
I will go with ambulance every time. When their lights are on it means they are either on the way to assist a person in dire straits or they are transporting said person to a hospital.


Yup
Link Posted: 6/2/2009 4:52:22 PM EST
ambulances
Link Posted: 6/2/2009 4:56:45 PM EST
I would say the ambulance.
Link Posted: 6/2/2009 5:00:12 PM EST
Originally Posted By Holloway:
The biggest vehicle should have the right of way.


In the Navy we used to call thet the Law of Gross Tonnage. If it's bigger than you are, don't fuck with it.
Link Posted: 6/2/2009 5:02:31 PM EST
I hate to break it to ya'll, but rarely is the patient in the ambulance critical. I'd say less than 5% of our calls really need an emergent response. We respond to every call lights and sirens, even if it is a stubbed toe. Some places have different levels of response, but our dispatch is lucky to get us the correct address at times, much less prioritize call response so our SOP is to respond code 3 to all calls. When a patient is in the back we generally don't run lights and sirens unless really needed though.
Link Posted: 6/2/2009 5:08:29 PM EST
My understanding is in NC red lights request the ROW, but blue lights(LE) demand ROW.

Not saying I agree with it, but that's how I understand it
Link Posted: 6/2/2009 5:13:53 PM EST
Here in SC, every emergency vehicle has the right of way and it's the law to yeild to anyone of the above... Does that happen? Hell no.

My township has GPS Opticoms installed on most lights (~75% of them) so that approaching emergency vehicles, with lights on, will always have a green light. The only time this doesn't happen is when two or more vehicles are approaching from different directions. The first one to the light wins. If your light stays red, or turns red, you treat it like you would any red light. Stop, clear, confirm it's clear and go.

In the case above, it sounds like the ambulance was transporting w/o lights/siren. In that case, he is just another vehicle on the road that should follow all traffic laws, including yeilding for another emergency vehicle running code. That still wouldn't justify pulling the ambulance over and arresting the medics. Especially after being told that they are transporting a patient. I'm curious how many other people that trooper had issued failure to yeild tickets to a regular Joe who refused to yeild to him.

I voted fire apparatus because we have Federal Q's and air horns... Tends to get more respect from vehicles vs the LE/ambulance with regular sirens.
Link Posted: 6/2/2009 5:14:02 PM EST
Originally Posted By PaDanby:
Originally Posted By Holloway:
The biggest vehicle should have the right of way.


In the Navy we used to call thet the Law of Gross Tonnage. If it's bigger than you are, don't fuck with it.


Yup. You may violate the rules of the road, but you won't break the laws of physics.
Link Posted: 6/2/2009 5:23:22 PM EST
Originally Posted By R_Flagg_77:
Having assisted with some EMS, I'd say ambulance... With an ambulance you know somebody is in trouble. I mean, a police car running lights and sirens could be anything from a shooting to a drunk pissing on a mail box. A fire truck hauling ass through a intersection could be the local orphanage caught on fire, or a storage shed. But they don't roll ambulances unless somebody got fucked up.


i wish you were right.

we respond lights and sirens to nearly everything, whether it's gunshot wounds or someone who has had leg pain for 3 months.
Link Posted: 6/2/2009 5:26:16 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/2/2009 5:27:29 PM EST by LARRYG]
Originally Posted By ZootTX:
I hate to break it to ya'll, but rarely is the patient in the ambulance critical. I'd say less than 5% of our calls really need an emergent response. We respond to every call lights and sirens, even if it is a stubbed toe. Some places have different levels of response, but our dispatch is lucky to get us the correct address at times, much less prioritize call response so our SOP is to respond code 3 to all calls. When a patient is in the back we generally don't run lights and sirens unless really needed though.


Well, I am not gonna try to figure out which percentage that ambulance is responding to when I see it coming. The ambulance will always be given priority by me over other EVs, although I will do my level best to get out of the way of all of them.

I guess I am that way because I was in the back on one on Christmas Day in 2005. I had a heart attack and remember hearing the driver cussing people that wouldn't get out of the way. I have always given them priority, but that really drove the point home.
Link Posted: 6/2/2009 5:34:27 PM EST
Originally Posted By Holloway:
The biggest vehicle should have the right of way.


I agree. I don't think a ladder truck stops as easily as a police cruiser.

Also, I'd submit that a fire truck has the potential to save more lives. That's just a WAG though.
Link Posted: 6/2/2009 5:35:37 PM EST
Originally Posted By LARRYG:
Originally Posted By ZootTX:
I hate to break it to ya'll, but rarely is the patient in the ambulance critical. I'd say less than 5% of our calls really need an emergent response. We respond to every call lights and sirens, even if it is a stubbed toe. Some places have different levels of response, but our dispatch is lucky to get us the correct address at times, much less prioritize call response so our SOP is to respond code 3 to all calls. When a patient is in the back we generally don't run lights and sirens unless really needed though.


Well, I am not gonna try to figure out which percentage that ambulance is responding to when I see it coming. The ambulance will always be given priority by me over other EVs, although I will do my level best to get out of the way of all of them.

I guess I am that way because I was in the back on one on Christmas Day in 2005. I had a heart attack and remember hearing the driver cussing people that wouldn't get out of the way. I have always given them priority, but that really drove the point home.


Thats certainly true, and I do appreciate it when people get out of my way
Link Posted: 6/2/2009 5:35:41 PM EST
Unless something has changed since I went through FF1 school 10 years ago, hear in GA(and most other states I was told) lights and sirens mean you are requesting the right of way, not given the ROW. Technically, someone could be an ass and not yield but they have laws to cover that as well. So if you go busting through a red light running code and t bone another vehicle, guess who's fault it is. It would be a tough call with what was posted by the OP though. I would have to go with the ambulance having the greater need.
Link Posted: 6/2/2009 5:45:28 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/2/2009 5:46:09 PM EST by Tango7]
Link Posted: 6/2/2009 5:49:30 PM EST
Having worked in EMS for awhile now I can also say that we rarely ever need the lights and sirens. Responding to calls.. maybe, but so many calls that are paged out as emergent turn into a waste of time for some person that has been having some problem for a week straight (what makes it an emergency now but not for the last week). As far as transporting to the hospital we maybe do it 5-10% of the time. We can usually handle our own in the back and the problem is usually not that bad.


Ambulances are very important and need the right away for when we do get the hot calls, but all of the same could be said for fire and police too.
Link Posted: 6/2/2009 5:59:09 PM EST
Originally Posted By Tango7:
You know, I could swear I've seen this thread before...

Click To View Spoiler
ETA - schoolbus with red flashing lights activated and "STOP" arm extended FTMFW


I searched EMT, police, cop....
Link Posted: 6/2/2009 6:04:09 PM EST
The slower vehicle should yield to the faster one. 99% the police car is going to be able to go fastest.
Link Posted: 6/2/2009 9:38:38 PM EST
Originally Posted By -Absolut-:
The slower vehicle should yield to the faster one. 99% the police car is going to be able to go fastest.


sideways, Especially after it gets t-boned by the Truck Company
Link Posted: 6/4/2009 12:35:02 AM EST
Originally Posted By LARRYG:
I will go with ambulance every time. When their lights are on it means they are either on the way to assist a person in dire straits or they are transporting said person to a hospital.


hahahaha. Ambulances in our City/County run lights/siren to almost every call.
Link Posted: 6/4/2009 12:41:09 AM EST
Originally Posted By Zack3g:
Now, these stupid fucking idiot drivers around here don't move out of the way for anyone, and many will look right at me, and pull out in front of me with a smile on their face the whole time.

Or, they'll slow to a crawl through the intersection I'm trying to clear with a big grin on their face while staring straight at me.


Time for liberal use of the air horn, preferably if their windows are open and the horns are bumper mounted. Wouldn't be the first time I've done that to some asshole.
Link Posted: 6/4/2009 12:45:26 AM EST

Originally Posted By Bed_Head:
In the situation you're referencing, the ambulance was not running code (no lights, no sirens), so any vehicle who WAS running code would have ROW. However, when we've had more than one entity running code to the same call or just in the same area, it's really who's in front.

This.

Though, an ambulance or a FT should yield ROW to a squad car IF POSSIBLE just because the squads can respond faster.
Link Posted: 6/4/2009 12:54:49 AM EST
Originally Posted By PhatForrest:
Originally Posted By Zack3g:
Now, these stupid fucking idiot drivers around here don't move out of the way for anyone, and many will look right at me, and pull out in front of me with a smile on their face the whole time.

Or, they'll slow to a crawl through the intersection I'm trying to clear with a big grin on their face while staring straight at me.


Time for liberal use of the air horn, preferably if their windows are open and the horns are bumper mounted. Wouldn't be the first time I've done that to some asshole.


4 different siren tones, a shit load of lights, and an air horn don't get these people's attention, or if it does, they simply don't care.

infuriating at times.
Link Posted: 6/4/2009 12:58:55 AM EST
Originally Posted By Zack3g:
Originally Posted By PhatForrest:
Originally Posted By Zack3g:
Now, these stupid fucking idiot drivers around here don't move out of the way for anyone, and many will look right at me, and pull out in front of me with a smile on their face the whole time.

Or, they'll slow to a crawl through the intersection I'm trying to clear with a big grin on their face while staring straight at me.


Time for liberal use of the air horn, preferably if their windows are open and the horns are bumper mounted. Wouldn't be the first time I've done that to some asshole.


4 different siren tones, a shit load of lights, and an air horn don't get these people's attention, or if it does, they simply don't care.

infuriating at times.


Amen brother, I've been chauffing for years.
Link Posted: 6/4/2009 1:19:08 AM EST
I've been an EMT and a fireman, and in my experience, there's not usually much of a conflict. The Police are the first responders, as they are faster, and can assess the situation.
Link Posted: 6/4/2009 1:56:52 AM EST
I voted firetruck. I figure putting out a fire can save more than the one person in an ambulance, and the firetruck is the biggest and probably hardest to stop.
Link Posted: 6/4/2009 2:03:59 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/4/2009 2:10:42 AM EST by jvic]

Originally Posted By R_Flagg_77:
Having assisted with some EMS, I'd say ambulance... With an ambulance you know somebody is in trouble. I mean, a police car running lights and sirens could be anything from a shooting to a drunk pissing on a mail box. A fire truck hauling ass through a intersection could be the local orphanage caught on fire, or a storage shed. But they don't roll ambulances unless somebody got fucked up.

HAHAHA! Not around here! They roll them for some of the stupidiest stuff I have ever heard. Not lights and sirens, maybe. I heard them get called recently for a 40 something year old woman with a tick in her leg that she wanted removed.
Link Posted: 6/4/2009 2:09:12 AM EST

Originally Posted By Zack3g:
Originally Posted By PhatForrest:
Originally Posted By Zack3g:
Now, these stupid fucking idiot drivers around here don't move out of the way for anyone, and many will look right at me, and pull out in front of me with a smile on their face the whole time.

Or, they'll slow to a crawl through the intersection I'm trying to clear with a big grin on their face while staring straight at me.


Time for liberal use of the air horn, preferably if their windows are open and the horns are bumper mounted. Wouldn't be the first time I've done that to some asshole.


4 different siren tones, a shit load of lights, and an air horn don't get these people's attention, or if it does, they simply don't care.

infuriating at times.

We had one where we were coming up to a light that had recently changed green in our direction. Some of the cars pulled forward and to the right in the intersection to let us by. Including a cop. So the guy right behind the cops decides he is pulling over for HIM and proceeds to pull right out in front of us and drive around the cop and keep going. Sirens and airhorns the whole time. We are right behind him for almost an entire block before he notices us and pulls over. Old dude with the wrap-around shades. I expect the cop to stop and talk to him but he didn't. As soon as we pull up on scene and get out he pulls up with his window down and comments about how that guy sure didn't want to pull over...
Link Posted: 6/4/2009 2:13:14 AM EST
I voted for the ambulance.
Link Posted: 6/4/2009 2:41:26 AM EST

Originally Posted By jvic:

I expect the cop to stop and talk to him but he didn't. As soon as we pull up on scene and get out he pulls up with his window down and comments about how that guy sure didn't want to pull over...

I woulda been calling the PD.

That's bullshit.
Link Posted: 6/4/2009 3:23:49 AM EST
Link Posted: 6/4/2009 3:42:47 AM EST
The chances that an ambulance, cruiser, or engine are headed to a call where lights/sirens will make any difference is slim to none. Very, very few time can I actually remember getting on scene and thinkng "Wow, I'm glad we drove Code 3 here for this." The majority of 911 calls are NOT emergencies, as far as an actual life or death situation. That being said, if the initial dispatch was for, let's say, a confirmed house fire, then get the hell out of the way of my engine. If the call is for a domestic dispute where the guy in the sweat stained wife beater is kicking the hell out of his ol' lady, then the ambulance, while needed, has to take a back seat to the police until the scene is safe. The pure medical calls, with no reports of unsafe conditions, then the meat wagon has priority.



Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 6/4/2009 2:52:12 PM EST
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 7:03:30 AM EST
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 7:12:47 AM EST
Whoever is code 1 has right of way.
If both are code one, then we go back to the basics - heaviest vehicle has right of way.
My dinky Impala doesn't have much on a fire truck.
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 7:15:12 AM EST
Originally Posted By R_Flagg_77:
I mean, a police car running lights and sirens could be anything from a shooting to a drunk pissing on a mail box.


Any police who would run code to a drunk pissing on a mail box shouldn't have a badge.
To be honest, I rarely use my lights or sirens except at intersections - too many people spaz out at the flashy lights and noise.
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 7:18:29 AM EST
Originally Posted By thedoctors308:
Originally Posted By R_Flagg_77:
I mean, a police car running lights and sirens could be anything from a shooting to a drunk pissing on a mail box.


Any police who would run code to a drunk pissing on a mail box shouldn't have a badge.
To be honest, I rarely use my lights or sirens except at intersections - too many people spaz out at the flashy lights and noise.


Same here. I would give right of way to any fire vehicles and ambulances. Whatever they are going to is more important than the domestic I'm going to deal with for the 3rd time.
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