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Posted: 9/9/2004 11:31:54 AM EST
C'mon, YES, or NO...no response needed, just vote.



(holding my breath on that last part....)


Yes, it's wrong.

But is it ILLEGAL?

Not filing a report....just they ask, you answer....is lying a crime?
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 11:33:09 AM EST
That depends on your definition of the word "is".
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 11:34:04 AM EST
I take the 5th.
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 11:34:18 AM EST
Yes and no. It depends on the situation. If you are legaly detained and you lie about your name ect. you can be arrested under PC 148.9 of the California penal code. It really all depends on what is going on.
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 11:34:45 AM EST
Better you should say nothing than lie. You probably can get into trouble for lying if they can prove it. I can't cite the law. Best advice is to say nothing. I'm sure someone can spell this out better than I.
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 11:34:49 AM EST
IMO, the only time lying is illegal is under oath, or on an offical document(report, etc...). However it can really bite you in the ass if you are caught doing it, as it will shoot your credibility or otherwise reduce your position.

Shuttin' up is always the best tactic.
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 11:35:15 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/9/2004 11:36:15 AM EST by hielo]
Only if they find out.


ETA: I like tot take the whole goose theory, if they can lie to us, we can lie to them.
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 11:35:29 AM EST
They are just protecting you. Or is it serving you?
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 11:36:08 AM EST
It depends on what you are lying about. If you are lying to them about some girl that blew you behind the Dairy Queen, probably not. If you are lying to them to get someone in trouble, or get yourself out of trouble, yes.
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 11:36:24 AM EST
I read that lying to any government "agent" is punishable by 5 years and up to $50,000 fine. But they can lie their asses off trying to get you to lie.

"It is my personal policy not to volunteer any information to government officials."
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 11:37:31 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 11:38:32 AM EST
In Oregon it is a misdemeanor to lie as to the status of your vehicle insurance.

-Z
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 11:40:05 AM EST

Originally Posted By Lightning_P38:
It is legal for them to lie to you.



Yep. What goes around, comes around.
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 11:40:24 AM EST

Originally Posted By Lightning_P38:
It is legal for them to lie to you.



Damn straight!
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 11:40:24 AM EST
If you're not under oath, no.

I still wouldn't advise it.
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 11:41:48 AM EST

Originally Posted By arowneragain:
C'mon, YES, or NO...no response needed, just vote.



(holding my breath on that last part....)


Yes, it's wrong.

But is it ILLEGAL?

Not filing a report....just they ask, you answer....is lying a crime?





It is illegal, (obstructing an investigation) but it may not be wrong.
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 11:42:08 AM EST
It's illegal by God's law.
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 11:44:42 AM EST
LIE all you want.
they are going to beat the truth out of you anyway.
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 11:47:51 AM EST
can't they get you for obstruction???? (follow up, "of what?" - I have no idea)
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 11:49:49 AM EST
Soooo, ar.... What did you do?
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 11:50:40 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 11:50:54 AM EST
it is not only legal, but it is your sworn duty as a citizen of the US to do so at all times when given the opportunity.
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 11:51:00 AM EST
extreme circumstances of lies: can be charged w/ obstructing justice
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 11:52:28 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/9/2004 11:53:02 AM EST by AZ-K9]


Tell me the truth or I'll shoot this dog!



Link Posted: 9/9/2004 11:55:56 AM EST

Originally Posted By wedge1082:
Soooo, ar.... What did you do?



Read a thread about someone's dog......
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 11:57:47 AM EST

Originally Posted By AZ-K9:
www.happyfunpundit.com/steve/kateigun.jpg

Tell me the truth or I'll shoot this dog!



WOW! That is a way uncool pic for a K9 officer. Thank God you didn't do it to a cat, you would really piss people off, then.

Link Posted: 9/9/2004 11:59:54 AM EST

Originally Posted By hk940:
LIE all you want.
they are going to beat the truth out of you anyway.



Here comes Chris Rock . . . .
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 12:01:25 PM EST
Cops are just people. In fact, they are civil servants. They work for you. You can tell them any fucking thin you want. In fact, remind them that they work for you, right before they shoot your dog....
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 12:01:36 PM EST

Originally Posted By POWER03]

WOW! That is a way uncool pic for a K9 officer. Thank God you didn't do it to a cat, you would really piss people off, then.




Link Posted: 9/9/2004 12:22:22 PM EST
Upon the advice of my legal counsel, I plead the 5th Amendment.
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 12:30:31 PM EST

Originally Posted By wedge1082:

Originally Posted By Lightning_P38:
It is legal for them to lie to you.



Damn straight!



+1
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 12:38:48 PM EST

Originally Posted By AZ-K9:
www.happyfunpundit.com/steve/kateigun.jpg

Tell me the truth or I'll shoot this dog!







Link Posted: 9/9/2004 12:40:27 PM EST
In Virginia, you can lie.....but then you can be charged with "Obstructing justice".


§ 18.2-460. Obstructing justice.

A. If any person without just cause knowingly obstructs a judge, magistrate, justice, juror, attorney for the Commonwealth, witness or any law-enforcement officer in the performance of his duties as such or fails or refuses without just cause to cease such obstruction when requested to do so by such judge, magistrate, justice, juror, attorney for the Commonwealth, witness, or law-enforcement officer, he shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.

B. If any person, by threats or force, knowingly attempts to intimidate or impede a judge, magistrate, justice, juror, attorney for the Commonwealth, witness, or any law-enforcement officer, lawfully engaged in his duties as such, or to obstruct or impede the administration of justice in any court, he shall be deemed to be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.

C. If any person by threats of bodily harm or force knowingly attempts to intimidate or impede a judge, magistrate, justice, juror, witness, or any law-enforcement officer, lawfully engaged in the discharge of his duty, or to obstruct or impede the administration of justice in any court relating to a violation of or conspiracy to violate § 18.2-248 or subdivision (a) (3), (b) or (c) of § 18.2-248.1, or § 18.2-46.2 or § 18.2-46.3, or relating to the violation of or conspiracy to violate any violent felony offense listed in subsection C of § 17.1-805, he shall be guilty of a Class 5 felony.

D. Any person who knowingly and willfully makes any materially false statement or representation to a law-enforcement officer who is in the course of conducting an investigation of a crime by another is guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.

(Code 1950, § 18.1-310; 1960, c. 358; 1975, cc. 14, 15; 1976, c. 269; 1984, c. 571; 1989, c. 506; 1993, c. 747; 1996, c. 718; 1999, cc. 770, 800; 2002, cc. 527, 810, 818; 2003, cc. 111, 149; 2004, cc. 396, 435.)
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 12:42:46 PM EST
I'm waiting to see if Martha Stewart posts a reply.
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 1:02:03 PM EST

Originally Posted By wedge1082:
They are just protecting you. Or is it serving you?



Servicing.
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 1:02:12 PM EST
It's a felony to lie to a Federal sworn officer.

If you didn't call them, don't engage in consensual conversation.
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 2:59:10 PM EST
This is another of those carved in stone in big bold letterss MAYBE

You have the Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination, so unless sworn at the time or making a full disclosure (say for a plea bargain) you can lie all you want, it ain't smart but you can.

Unless you are an officer of a corporation, certain Securities dealers, etc, where as prerequisite for the job or license you must agree to tell the truth in all investigations. (This is the one that got Martha, she had a duty and possibly even sworn obligation as both a member as a Member of the Stock Exchange and a Corporate Officer to tell the truth when a stock market investigation was being made)

Can you lie about what somebody else did? no that's illegal. I think all the States and the Feds have laws requiring truthful assistance during the investigation of a crime.

Link Posted: 9/9/2004 3:05:28 PM EST
Yes it is illegal. And if you think otherwise....well....let me know when the visiting hours are, I'll bring a cake and a file.


Link Posted: 9/9/2004 3:11:56 PM EST
Tactical Deception...is when it would not hurt an honest person, but could gain you valuable information concerning a crime. As NO I am not a cop...then they go rob a store in front of you...if they were honest, they would not do anything criminal in front of you.
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 3:20:22 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/9/2004 3:26:12 PM EST by AR15fan]
When lawfully detained, it is illegal to lie about your identity, to avoid prosceution or a process of the court.(CPC 148.9) Examples would be giving the cops a fake name when stopped becuase you have a warrant under your real name (avoiding process of the court). or giving a fake name and drivers license number when stopped for a traffic violation (avoiding prosecution).

Giving the name of a real person, other than your own, is a felony. a fake name is only a misdemeanor.

Typical sentance for CPC 148.9 is 3-years formal probation. Illegal imigrants 148.9 me all the time.
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 3:22:23 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/9/2004 3:25:21 PM EST by Ellery_Holt]
.
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 3:22:56 PM EST

Originally Posted By POWER03:
it is not only legal, but it is your sworn duty as a citizen of the US to do so at all times when given the opportunity.



+1
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 3:41:47 PM EST
Dont say anything and you'll come out better than if you get caught lying.
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 3:44:51 PM EST

Remember, you have the right to remain SILENT!
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 3:45:19 PM EST

Originally Posted By arowneragain:

Yes, it's wrong.

But is it ILLEGAL?

Not filing a report....just they ask, you answer....is lying a crime?



Cut and pasted from my accustory instrument collection, as an example:


ACCUSATION
BE IT KNOWN THAT, by this Accusatory Instrument, ___________________________ the Complainant herein, accuses ___________________________, the above named Defendant with committing the offense of FALSE PERSONATION, in violation of section 190.23, no subdivision, of the Penal Law of the State of New York, a CLASS B MISDEMEANOR.

FACTS

A person is guilty of false personation when after being informed of the consequences of such act, he or she knowingly misrepresents his or her actual name, date of birth or address to a police or peace officer with intent to prevent such police or peace officer from ascertaining such information. .........

then there is always the charge of Falsely Reporting to consider:

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/nycodes/c82/a59.html

240.50 Falsely reporting an incident in the third degree.
A person is guilty of falsely reporting an incident in the third
degree when, knowing the information reported, conveyed or circulated to
be false or baseless, he:
1. Initiates or circulates a false report or warning of an alleged
occurrence or impending occurrence of a crime, catastrophe or emergency
under circumstances in which it is not unlikely that public alarm or
inconvenience will result; or
2. Reports, by word or action, to an official or quasi-official agency
or organization having the function of dealing with emergencies
involving danger to life or property, an alleged occurrence or impending
occurrence of a catastrophe or emergency which did not in fact occur or
does not in fact exist; or
3. Gratuitously reports to a law enforcement officer or agency (a) the
alleged occurrence of an offense or incident which did not in fact
occur; or (b) an allegedly impending occurrence of an offense or
incident which in fact is not about to occur; or (c) false information
relating to an actual offense or incident or to the alleged implication
of some person therein; or
4. Reports, by word or action, to the statewide central register of
child abuse and maltreatment, as defined in title six of article six of
the social services law, an alleged occurrence or condition of child
abuse or maltreatment which did not in fact occur or exist.
Falsely reporting an incident in the third degree is a class A
misdemeanor.

S 240.55 Falsely reporting an incident in the second degree.
A person is guilty of falsely reporting an incident in the second
degree when, knowing the information reported, conveyed or circulated to
be false or baseless, he or she:
1. Initiates or circulates a false report or warning of an alleged
occurrence or impending occurrence of a fire, explosion, or the release
of a hazardous substance under circumstances in which it is not unlikely
that public alarm or inconvenience will result;
2. Reports, by word or action, to any official or quasi-official
agency or organization having the function of dealing with emergencies
involving danger to life or property, an alleged occurrence or impending
occurrence of a fire, explosion, or the release of a hazardous substance
which did not in fact occur or does not in fact exist; or
3. Knowing the information reported, conveyed or circulated to be
false or baseless and under circumstances in which it is likely public
alarm or inconvenience will result, he or she initiates or circulates a
report or warning of an alleged occurrence or an impending occurrence of
a fire, an explosion, or the release of a hazardous substance upon any
private premises.
Falsely reporting an incident in the second degree is a class E
felony.

S 240.60 Falsely reporting an incident in the first degree.
A person is guilty of falsely reporting an incident in the first
degree when he:
1. commits the crime of falsely reporting an incident in the second
degree as defined in section 240.55 of this article, and has previously
been convicted of that crime; or
2. commits the crime of falsely reporting an incident in the third
degree as defined in subdivisions one and two of section 240.50 of this
article or falsely reporting an incident in the second degree as defined
in subdivisions one and two of section 240.55 of this article and
another person who is an employee or member of any official or
quasi-official agency having the function of dealing with emergencies
involving danger to life or property; or who is a volunteer firefighter
with a fire department, fire company, or any unit thereof as defined in
the volunteer firefighters` benefit law; or who is a volunteer ambulance
worker with a volunteer ambulance corporation or any unit thereof as
defined in the volunteer ambulance workers` benefit law suffers serious
physical injury or is killed in the performance of his or her official
duties in traveling to or working at or returning to a firehouse, police
station, quarters or other base facility from the location identified in
such report; or
3. commits the crime of falsely reporting an incident in the third
degree as defined in subdivisions one and two of section 240.50 of this
article or falsely reporting an incident in the second degree as defined
in subdivisions one and two of section 240.55 of this article and
another person suffers serious physical injury or is killed as a result
of any vehicular or other accident involving any emergency vehicle which
is responding to, operating at, or returning from the location
identified in such report.
4. An emergency vehicle as referred to in subdivision three of this
section shall include any vehicle operated by any employee or member of
any official or quasi-official agency having the function of dealing
with emergencies involving danger to life or property and shall include,
but not necessarily be limited to, an emergency vehicle which is
operated by a volunteer firefighter with a fire department, fire
company, or any unit thereof as defined in the volunteer firefighters`
benefit law; or by a volunteer ambulance worker with a volunteer
ambulance corporation, or any unit thereof as defined in the volunteer
ambulance workers` benefit law.
5. Knowing the information reported, conveyed or circulated to be
false or baseless and under circumstances in which it is likely public
alarm or inconvenience will result, he or she initiates or circulates a
report or warning of an alleged occurrence or an impending occurrence of
a fire, an explosion, or the release of a hazardous substance upon
school grounds and it is likely that persons are present on said
grounds.
6. Knowing the information reported, conveyed or circulated to be
false or baseless and under circumstances in which it is likely public
alarm or inconvenience will result, he or she initiates or circulates a
report or warning of an alleged occurrence or impending occurrence of a
fire, explosion or the release of a hazardous substance in or upon a
sports stadium or arena, mass transportation facility, enclosed shopping
mall, any public building or any public place, and it is likely that
persons are present. For purposes of this subdivision, the terms "sports
stadium or arena, mass transportation facility or enclosed shopping
mall" shall have their natural meaning and the term "public building"
shall have the meaning set forth in section four hundred one of the
executive law.
Falsely reporting an incident in the first degree is a class D felony.


Then there is this little blurb at the bottom of every report , every information, every statement form:

NOTICE
It is a crime punishable as a class “A” misdemeanor under the laws of the state of New York for a person in and by a written instrument, to knowingly make a false statement or to make a statement which such person does not believe to be true.

Affirmed under the penalty of perjury, this _________ day of ______________, ________.


Link Posted: 9/9/2004 3:52:33 PM EST
I think it's still legal to say "fuck you jerk off, I ain't saying shit"
"If you don't like it call my lawyer"
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 4:25:24 PM EST
In some cases even while not under oath, yes, it is illegal! There are plenty of false/fraudulent information (including failure to identify) offenses covered in the Penal Code.
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 4:37:59 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 4:46:10 PM EST
DOn't know, but rarely is it a good idea unless you are SURE you can get away with it.


SGatr15
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 4:49:13 PM EST

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:

Originally Posted By jrzy:
I think it's still legal to say "fuck you jerk off, I ain't saying shit"
"If you don't like it call my lawyer"



now there is an ass kicking in the making if i have ever heard one



Yep, sad isn't it? I can say that to some guy I see in a bar and if he kicks my ass it's criminal Assault. Say it to a cop and it's just assumed that you will be charged with Resisting Arrest after having been "subdued" by several officers.
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 4:54:09 PM EST
Believe me they assume you are anyway why dissapoint them....legal? who cares your lying!
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